Why the Hate Towards Jesus Christ on ATS?

reply to post by pirell


Until recently did not allow its followers to read the bible?

What on earth are you talking about? Some priests in certain parishes throughout time forbid it except in mass and they did it because other denominations were spreading lies about the catholic church. It could still be viewed as wrong but they didn't prevent them, they just recommended not to without guidance.

Like it or not the Catholics are christians.

You cannot separate yourself from them because of their terrible acts.

Even still, there are other denominations that are just as guilty of horrible acts.

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pirell

 

Until recently did not allow its followers to read the bible?

What on earth are you talking about? Some priests in certain parishes throughout time forbid it except in mass and they did it because other denominations were spreading lies about the catholic church. It could still be viewed as wrong but they didn't prevent them, they just recommended not to without guidance.

Like it or not the Catholics are christians.

You cannot separate yourself from them because of their terrible acts.

Even still, there are other denominations that are just as guilty of horrible acts.

Catholics and christians are both on mans side with religion, not God's. But God is calling those people out of those churches.

I suggest anyone that wants to do some research to check out this website, which is banned in China and in Australia and soon America and England www.remnantofgod.org He has alot of articles, references, video, and spells it out very clearly. Thousands upon thousands of pages. And his daily news articles I like to read everyday along with drudge. Really helps to get a clear picture on current events. I don't agree with the webmasters judging others because we are told no one can judge but God himself, but I'll leave it up to those interested to decide.

Originally posted by sting130u

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pirell

 

So which is it?

Are christians saved by grace or by works?

It is always one or the other depending on the argument.

I did not expect it to mean anything to you. I was refuting your statement that he was godless.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)

The Bible states man cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven through good works alone.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:5

Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.”

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” (Galatians 2:16)

(James 2:24) - "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

(Matthew 19:16-17) - "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Matt. 16: 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

I taught that man is saved by grace. I know all about it. However it is usually switched around in arguments about god or it becomes one way instead of the other whenever it is convenient.

It is a common dispute amongst christian denominations.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life." -Albert Einstein

It doesn't matter if it's Einstein or The Grand Poobah, their beliefs don't count.

Nobody has proven that there are deities. That's all that counts.

reply to post by sting130u


If it practices deception in its editing to create a false impression the way Drudge does I think I will pass.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by pirell

In Revelation 16:12, it is prophesied that the Euphrates will dry up in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon: “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.”


and for the first time in 5000 yrs (or from when records began) the eurpates river is dryin up faster than ever within the last 3 years...

www.nytimes.com...

The Euphrates is drying up. Strangled by the water policies of Iraq’s neighbors, Turkey and Syria; a two-year drought; and years of misuse by Iraq and its farmers, the river is significantly smaller than it was just a few years ago. Some officials worry that it could soon be half of what it is now.

The shrinking Euphrates is caused by water policies, drought and misuse - all natural or manmade causes. There is no angel-powered vial causing problems, nor are there any kings in the east holding back an assault because of a river.

You are taking an extremely vague and allegorical passage that you think is a prediction and applying whatever current event you can into it because you need it to be true. You have failed to account for why 2/3 of the claim is false.

The bible has not predicted anything in this case.
QED

edit on 7-7-2011 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)

lol. the river is drying up. what appears to you to be some Logical reason was predicted in the bible, accurately falling in line with the current time we are in. The same thing you can claim applies to the Daniel and his dream preidctions, that is where we differ. The bible doesnt just predict one thing at random, it predicts a series of events, in different parts of the bible that all point to the same event... nothing happens just out of Randomness..thats what the so called "logic" thinkers claim but its absolute nonsense in my opinion. so when i look at the eurpates river drying up.. i was not literally expecting an angel to throw a rock into it for it to dry up... i look at the point at which its drying up...having understood the symbolism used in the bible to describe events that manifest on earth.

i also look at the time this river's drying up is occuring... is this an isolated event? no, at the time its occuring..are the other things predicted in the bible to happen in these days happening? Yes. so therefore the river drying up is one of the signs of accuracy. it will manifest in the way you claim it is happening. but its happening AT THIS TIME for a reason in line with the other events that have begun to happen. that is not shoehornning, or random logic my friend it is understanding the bible, which is why we were warned to be vigilant of what is going on so that YE KNOW THE TIME OF RECKONING. that is why mentioning water policies and what have you do not disprove one bit why the river is drying up around the exact time predicted it was due to happen.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life." -Albert Einstein

It doesn't matter if it's Einstein or The Grand Poobah, their beliefs don't count.

Nobody has proven that there are deities. That's all that counts.

And no one has proven that there isn't. If you can prove that there isn't then I might believe you. But I know that no such evidence exist. And don't me give that "You don't have to prove anything crap" because that is the biggest fallacy of all time. How can anyone state something as fact without evidence?

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by sting130u

 

If it practices deception in its editing to create a false impression the way Drudge does I think I will pass.

If your referring to the headlines that drudge dresses up to get people to bite the bait, no, he does not do that. He puts up the headline that the publisher had, with quotes from the story to catch the reader, and he puts his input into it. And drudge and remnantofgod only publish stories from other editors, they don't write their own. Drudge kinda does, but not very often. So its not biased, and you can read from multiple writers around the world.

Originally posted by pirell
that is not shoehornning

Your entire post was the mental process generated by your shoehorning. You also failed to account for why 2/3 of it is false.

Furthermore, the Euphrates has not dried up. It has simply shrunk. And again, these are manmade and natural causes which can be reversed.

The entire claim seems to be false.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
And no one has proven that there isn't. If you can prove that there isn't then I might believe you.

Nobody has proven there isn't a Santa Claus.

Oh, and you haven't proven you're not a dangerous criminal.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life." -Albert Einstein

It doesn't matter if it's Einstein or The Grand Poobah, their beliefs don't count.

Nobody has proven that there are deities. That's all that counts.

And no one has proven that there isn't. If you can prove that there isn't then I might believe you. But I know that no such evidence exist. And don't me give that "You don't have to prove anything crap" because that is the biggest fallacy of all time. How can anyone state something as fact without evidence?

edit on 7-7-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

You have to be kidding, yet again! Can one person really be this ignorant of logic or argumentation?

No one has stated unequivocally that god does not exist.

We say there is no evidence to justify a belief in god or gods.

We take the default position. You were not born with a belief in god, it was conditioned in you over time.

You are making the absolute claim that god exist so the burden of proof is on you, not us.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Please prove to me that there is not a tiny teapot circling around jupiter.

See how silly that sounds?

Originally posted by megabytz

Originally posted by sting130u

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pirell

 

So which is it?

Are christians saved by grace or by works?

It is always one or the other depending on the argument.

I did not expect it to mean anything to you. I was refuting your statement that he was godless.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)

The Bible states man cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven through good works alone.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:5

Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.”

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” (Galatians 2:16)

(James 2:24) - "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

(Matthew 19:16-17) - "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Matt. 16: 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

I taught that man is saved by grace. I know all about it. However it is usually switched around in arguments about god or it becomes one way instead of the other whenever it is convenient.

It is a common dispute amongst christian denominations.

So... Reading this tells me that you can't accept Jesus Christ and continue to do bad deeds, or not accept Jesus and continue to do bad deeds. And that you can have Jesus Christ and do good deeds and get into Heaven, but not having Jesus Christ and doing good deeds alone will also not get you into Heaven.

I think my mind just blew up.

When you accept Jesus you are moved to do good deeds. You turn away from sin and walk with Jesus. As is my understanding anyways. Without Jesus are you moved to do good for mankind and God or just for yourself?

I think you guys are all very intelligent, and I like to think that maybe I am not as smart as you (150 iq, but not knowledgeable in one area of expertise.) Keeping myself at a lower level allows me to understand and be open to things. To assume (that I'm smarter) only makes an ass out of u and me.

Originally posted by sting130u
Without Jesus are you moved to do good for mankind and God or just for yourself?

Without Jesus all your energy can go towards doing good for mankind without any of that energy diverted to another source.

Originally posted by megabytz

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life." -Albert Einstein

It doesn't matter if it's Einstein or The Grand Poobah, their beliefs don't count.

Nobody has proven that there are deities. That's all that counts.

And no one has proven that there isn't. If you can prove that there isn't then I might believe you. But I know that no such evidence exist. And don't me give that "You don't have to prove anything crap" because that is the biggest fallacy of all time. How can anyone state something as fact without evidence?

edit on 7-7-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

You have to be kidding, yet again! Can one person really be this ignorant of logic or argumentation?

No one has stated unequivocally that god does not exist.

We say there is no evidence to justify a belief in god or gods.

We take the default position. You were not born with a belief in god, it was conditioned in you over time.

You are making the absolute claim that god exist so the burden of proof is on you, not us.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Ha, conditioned. That makes me laugh. People that have never seen civilization and can't read or even speak clearly even believe in a God. If you were born on an island raised completely away from people and society you would believe in a God. This is not conditioned, the spirituality is actually a part of us in the same way your heart, stomach, lungs, and what not are. Have you ever seen your soul? Have you ever seen your heart? How did people know we had a heart? They believed it was there, and it was. They also believed we had a soul, we just dont have a way to prove it physically (though there are claims out there of videos with peoples souls leaving them?)

reply to post by sting130u

When you accept Jesus you are moved to do good deeds. You turn away from sin and walk with Jesus. As is my understanding anyways. Without Jesus are you moved to do good for mankind and God or just for yourself?

Not everyone is moved to do good things because they accept Jesus. Look at the american prison system. It is full of christians.

Without god I am moved to do good things simply because we are all on this planet together and it brings me joy to see that I have made a positive impact for something that is good.

One of the gems from the bible...

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Philipians 4:8

...this is self evident to many people.

I do not do good things simply because I think a man in the sky expects me to.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by pirell
that is not shoehornning

Your entire post was the mental process generated by your shoehorning. You also failed to account for why 2/3 of it is false.

Furthermore, the Euphrates has not dried up. It has simply shrunk. And again, these are manmade and natural causes which can be reversed.

The entire claim seems to be false.

yes, drying up i never said it was completely dry..but its not getting any better since it began to dry up. 2/3 of what is false? your own mental process of A: ignroance, and B: logic is what is being generated in your own mind. trying to explain or comment on a language you have shown no understanding of.. that is such a silly thing in my opinion.

are the things talked about the bible in terms of science and technology happening faster than ever in our time? yes.. is the pace at which steps are being taken worldwide for there to be some unified form of control that goes beyond just politics faster than ever before...yes. china 5 yrs ago had an economy 3 times smaller than the USA, in 2 yrs it will surpass the US economy...is the timing of such speed of economic growth an isolated event? My aunt works for the UN... and knows why she has become a stronger christian than ever. are there steps being made to Unify religion under the auspices of the UN..with the blessing of the Pope.?..yes.
is the 3rd Temple in jerusalem being prepared ...a process that began within the last 10 yrs and picking up pace in that everything that will go inside it is ready apart from just finding the right spot to begin building the actual temple? Yes... all these thigns predicted are not random

These are just a few of a host of examples that point to a particular time...no specific date (as some so called christians will claim) but certainly points to a time...of events none of which are just happening at random. so im sorry if you think that is shoehorning, i say its the exact thing YOU are doing...soehorning yourself into thinking its all logical. im supposed to ignore all those predictions to put my faith in men who cannot accurately predict next weeks weather? (even though they can make good attempts to)

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by sting130u
Without Jesus are you moved to do good for mankind and God or just for yourself?

Without Jesus all your energy can go towards doing good for mankind without any of that energy diverted to another source.

Yes, but lets go to the before Jesus me and the after Jesus me.

I stole, I lied, I cheated, I was angry, I hated everyone around me, and I loved checking out your gf's a# (just an expression) After I confessed to God and accepted Jesus all of that stopped. Maybe some people don't need it? I doubt it, but lets just say maybe. The first time turned from sin I can't explain the warm feeling that went through my body. It was wonderful. And I don't want you to believe me or anything, I just want you to be open to the signs so you don't miss them.

Not one person could change my mind when I was atheist. It took my own experiences to turn me to God.

Also, if the Bible is a fairy tale like some claim, why is it mathematically perfect with Bible code? Why is it the Bible knew the Earth was a sphere thousands of years before scientists figured it wasn't flat? How is it the Bible knew the planet floated on its own? How did it know the circulatory system of the oceans were much like our own circulatory systems? Ever flowing one way? All this many many many years before "scientists" found out? Just seems to me that man is always making mistakes and the Bible has remained.

Originally posted by megabytz
Look at the american prison system. It is full of christians.

Off topic.... we may want to discuss this maybe off forum some time... but I think this argument may not be as valid as we think. You are not incorrect in any way whatsoever, but the argument should be examined

reply to post by sting130u


You are conditioned into religion.

You may be raised on a deserted island and ponder the existence of a creator because you have no idea how to explain anything otherwise.

Then again, you may be raised on a deserted island and have no concept of a god or a soul.

Do you think we had a concept of god before we were in our current form?

No, it was something created by civilization. God was essentially created as an explanation, god of the gaps if you will.

Today there is no reason to insert god anywhere.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Yes you are right but I was responding to the comment that people are moved to do good things when they accept Jesus.

This is not always the case.

I think the thread has gotten off topic several times.