Why the Hate Towards Jesus Christ on ATS?

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posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by pirell
 


So which is it?

Are christians saved by grace or by works?

It is always one or the other depending on the argument.

I did not expect it to mean anything to you. I was refuting your statement that he was godless.
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


They were putting together books that were supposedly inspired by god but left out the ones they did not personally like.

What books were they picking that were about their life?

Take a second and breathe, get your thoughts together.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


And I can easily dispute the validity of one of those claims, Albert Einstein was not a theist.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


Then you need to study his work more. Not only was he against atheism, but he was also a believer in Christ.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by pirell
revealation 12 through 13, explains a powerful world leader who will deceive the world..and people will "accept" his mark...and without it people will be unable to buy or sell anything..

I am not going to play with boxhole names such as shoe horning and whatever othher fancy name you chose, its as lame as calling people who critiscise israel "anti-semitic" Its just an easy way of trying to dismiss claims without ever adressing what was said. I dont need to check anything nor re evaluate my argument wen you havent presented anything that completely refutes what i said. so no name games thanks cos theres many names you could be called too..


Sir/ma'am,

I am not here to play games with you, ridicule or call names. I am sincerely trying to help you in ways that can improve your argument. There are problems with your argument that can be identified by a beginner-level skeptic. I'm simply advising that you learn about a phenomenon that happens to a lot of people. The worst that can happen is you learn something new and maybe improve your argument.


the best thing you can do is to disprove my argument. you cannot ask for facts then start trying to patronise me with helping me out, i will expand on my argument should the need arise definately, but you have gotten the answer you requested.. you can say its crap or useless.or shoehorning..which is the easy route, or you can adress them with facts that refute them. or you can continue to attempt to give me argument lessons and never ADDRESS the argument. thats cool too
edit on 7-7-2011 by pirell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
Then you need to study his work more. Not only was he against atheism, but he was also a believer in Christ.


Okay.
You're a "Poe"

That was the post that gave you away


Poe's Law



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
Then you need to study his work more. Not only was he against atheism, but he was also a believer in Christ.


Okay.
You're a "Poe"

That was the post that gave you away


Poe's Law


Then prove it as a lie if your so confident that I belong to that group.
edit on 7-7-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by pirell
the best thing you can do is to disprove my argument. you cannot ask for facts then start trying to patronise me with helping me out, i will expand on my argument should the need arise definately, but you have gotten the answer you requested.. you can say its crap or useless.or shoehorning..which is the easy route, or you can adress them with facts that refute them. or you can continue to attempt to give me argument lessons and never ADDRESS the argument. thats cool too
edit on 7-7-2011 by pirell because: (no reason given)


You might re-evaluate our conversations. I have not provoked, ridiculed or called you names and I have tried to remain polite. It would be better if we could discuss things in a more civil manner.

But let's get to the actual situation. You brought the claim. It's your burden to prove it. It is never anyone's burden to disprove a claim. So far you have not proven your claim.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pirell
 


So which is it?

Are christians saved by grace or by works?

It is always one or the other depending on the argument.

I did not expect it to mean anything to you. I was refuting your statement that he was godless.
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


Christians are saved by grace, works alone cannot save one.

and regarding the taking out of books of the bible, this again in my view was an act of politics which as i have said from day one has caused alot of people to be deceived and ignorant of their bible. There was no reason for any books to have been left out.

christianity was politiscised, and the bible itself warns us of the catholic church, and many other denominantions of christianity that are just practising apostasy. perhaps the reason why some books were left out was because if people read it today alot of Organised denominations would be less powerful than they are today. but this in itself does not mean the bible is fake...its the very reason why it is a book of freedom.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Then prove it as a lie if your so confident that I belong to that group.
edit on 7-7-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)


Come on now.
There's no way you're a real christian.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


And I can easily dispute the validity of one of those claims, Albert Einstein was not a theist.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


Then you need to study his work more. Not only was he against atheism, but he was also a believer in Christ.


You have to be kidding me! Einstein was appalled at the attempts of the religious to make him seem like a theist.
Only the religious could have no concept of what Einstein was referring to when he mentioned god.

The idea of a personal god is quite alien to me and seems naive.
-Albert Einstein

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
-Albert Einstein

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.
-Albert Einstein

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-Albert Einstein

I have thoroughly studied the works of Einstein and he was in no way a christian.

The church was angry about some of his statements and spread the lie that he was a christian. The same thing that christians did with Darwin.

It is terribly delusional that you think Einstein was a christian and he was against atheism.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


And I can easily dispute the validity of one of those claims, Albert Einstein was not a theist.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


Then you need to study his work more. Not only was he against atheism, but he was also a believer in Christ.



Einstein was jewish * And no, he was not against atheism. * in race, I do recognise he was not exactly jewish as far as personal views
edit on 7-7-2011 by chancemusky because: fix a mistake and info



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by pirell
 





and many other denominantions of christianity that are just practising apostasy.


In other words any denomination that is not practicing the way you interpret the bible is practicing apostasy?

That has gone over well all over the world, hasn't it?



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by pirell
the best thing you can do is to disprove my argument. you cannot ask for facts then start trying to patronise me with helping me out, i will expand on my argument should the need arise definately, but you have gotten the answer you requested.. you can say its crap or useless.or shoehorning..which is the easy route, or you can adress them with facts that refute them. or you can continue to attempt to give me argument lessons and never ADDRESS the argument. thats cool too
edit on 7-7-2011 by pirell because: (no reason given)


You might re-evaluate our conversations. I have not provoked, ridiculed or called you names and I have tried to remain polite. It would be better if we could discuss things in a more civil manner.

But let's get to the actual situation. You brought the claim. It's your burden to prove it. It is never anyone's burden to disprove a claim. So far you have not proven your claim.


im not angry at all nor did i get offended by what you said..so dont mistaken my response for anger in anyway. but im sure like me, you will say "I always meet your type"... but its true.

a question is asked, and answer is given, then its dismissed without any facts. at least come up with something...i dont need to PROVE anything.(even though i can). i just gave you a reason why i believe that the bible is a factual living book, certainly not out of date and gave you examples of those predictions you requested. all you have said in response is mention shoehorning and nostradamus. It seems you're not the one evaluating your argument or your response at all. what is stopping you from factually dismissing my argument in a second as you appear to be a top level skeptic?
edit on 7-7-2011 by pirell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by coastlinekid
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Imo, It's best not to engage in debate with religious people like Soldier of God ...

No matter how much reason and thought you put in,
It will just end with him accusing you of being a servant of Satan...


I am NOT religious at all, I am only forgiven.


Good stuff. Religion kills, not Jesus message. If people can't see the message than they are clearly ignoring it or seeking out other answers when the answer is right there in front of them.

There has to be a God, because we are NOT here by pure chance. The chances of us evolving into what we are today is too astronomical of a number to even fathom.

And Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity. There are three parts to God. God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the son of God, which is actually God in human form. The Holy Spirit is what drives the universe and guides God. Jesus had to die for our sins to wash them away in his blood, and it took a sacrifice much like the way they crucified him.

And I don't think the title to this thread was correct. It should have read "Why do people hate Jesus' teachings so much". I don't even think its that. I think its people filled with anger and hate that thrash out on these things. The same people that curse up and down when they are filled with rage. People that blame others instead of looking at themselves.

I left christianity because of the hypocrisy and the expensive buildings and the accumulation of wealth these "leaders" were gaining. I came back to Christ when my daughter was born. She came out in a dark room and the whole room glowed in the area she was in. You could see light just coming off of her. In her newborn pics she was in a praying pose. It was truly a sign to me.

Another sign was the political scene. These leaders having satanic rituals, worshipping an owl and BHG, the skull and bones, the masons god being lucifer, the vatican wanting to welcome aliens and building a telescope in CA named lucifer (lucifer is the name of satan before he was cast out, those that refer to him as lucifer believe he was never cast out).

There was still more signs that started popping out in my face. The music I loved, I finally listened to the lyrics. I hated TUPAC til I learned about the illuminati. Now I understand. The new agers, the rock, the backwards messages, the symbolism. Than there is the hollywood industry.

It's not really about what I believe, I just saw what others believe and it is very very dark. I see the vatican with its gold ceiling funding wars and killing babies with their homosexual pleasures, I can see that. So what other figure out there has promised to save us from what we can not stop? Buddha even praised Jesus, I'm gonna have to go with Jesus. He was the only one quoted saying He is the Truth, the Light, and the only way. He is the one who has his name slandered by hateful people. Even this may 21, 2011, I mean cmon, I could have given you one hint as to why he was a fraud. He had $77m in his bank account that day. And did nothing with it. What kind of convinced person that really believes his story would have that much money sitting in his bank account? Wouldn't you have spent it?

Don't let others affect your ability to think for yourself. Just look at the signs, look at the clues. I drove myself mad looking for the truth, the truth is everywhere and its all distorted. But truths turn into lies when its garbled and rambled on. Jesus put it very subtly. Follow the commandments (the best you could, to appease God), and accept the gift of salvation and you shall not perish. I don't recall him saying start up 40 religions all different and collect money off the poor suckers.

Jesus' teachings were something everyone can live by. If you disagree with any of the following commandments than your probably not very civilized and your mamma should be ashamed.

1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

Jesus is our attorney in the courtroom of God. Without him, your up there alone. Do I think writing out all this saved any souls? No. It is my belief that we can not change peoples minds now as it is too close to the end. People are angry and individual. I don't want you preaching to me anymore than you want me preaching to you. It's at the end of the line, and its up to the individual to decide for themselves. "

"Light or Dark. Darkness does not exist, as it is only the absence of light. Hot or cold. Cold does not exist as it is only the absence of heat. Good or evil. Evil does not exist as it is only the absence of Good (God)-" Einstein said it- 3rd grade



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pirell
 





and many other denominantions of christianity that are just practising apostasy.


In other words any denomination that is not practicing the way you interpret the bible is practicing apostasy?

That has gone over well all over the world, hasn't it?


well the catholic church only until recently did not allow its followers to read the bible. where was such control of bible reading authorised in the bible? where was mary given prominence in the bible that she is given in the catholic church? how does a pastor justify owning 4 private jets in one of the poorest countries of the world? what would jesus have done? its not the way I interprete it..its all there for people to read and see for themselves.

some people will be deceived, but not all.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by sting130u
 


Jesus taught nothing that wasn't around long before his supposed existence.

I addressed the ten commandments in another thread but...

the first three are about loving someone you are supposed to fear. This is amoral.

Thou shall not murder,steal, or lie are self evident and humans knew they were wrong many many years before the ten commandments.

The last one is immoral as it lumps women in with various pieces of property.

The bible and all its teachings could completely disappear from history and I am sure we would be okay.

And your point behind the Einstein quote?
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pirell
 


So which is it?

Are christians saved by grace or by works?

It is always one or the other depending on the argument.

I did not expect it to mean anything to you. I was refuting your statement that he was godless.
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


The Bible states man cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven through good works alone.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:5

Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.”

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” (Galatians 2:16)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by pirell

In Revelation 16:12, it is prophesied that the Euphrates will dry up in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon: “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.”


and for the first time in 5000 yrs (or from when records began) the eurpates river is dryin up faster than ever within the last 3 years...


www.nytimes.com...


The Euphrates is drying up. Strangled by the water policies of Iraq’s neighbors, Turkey and Syria; a two-year drought; and years of misuse by Iraq and its farmers, the river is significantly smaller than it was just a few years ago. Some officials worry that it could soon be half of what it is now.


The shrinking Euphrates is caused by water policies, drought and misuse - all natural or manmade causes. There is no angel-powered vial causing problems, nor are there any kings in the east holding back an assault because of a river.

You are taking an extremely vague and allegorical passage that you think is a prediction and applying whatever current event you can into it because you need it to be true. You have failed to account for why 2/3 of the claim is false.

The bible has not predicted anything in this case.
QED
edit on 7-7-2011 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by megabytz

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


And I can easily dispute the validity of one of those claims, Albert Einstein was not a theist.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


Then you need to study his work more. Not only was he against atheism, but he was also a believer in Christ.


You have to be kidding me! Einstein was appalled at the attempts of the religious to make him seem like a theist.
Only the religious could have no concept of what Einstein was referring to when he mentioned god.

The idea of a personal god is quite alien to me and seems naive.
-Albert Einstein

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
-Albert Einstein

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.
-Albert Einstein

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-Albert Einstein

I have thoroughly studied the works of Einstein and he was in no way a christian.

The church was angry about some of his statements and spread the lie that he was a christian. The same thing that christians did with Darwin.

It is terribly delusional that you think Einstein was a christian and he was against atheism.

edit on 7-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)


I know he wasn't a christian but don't' forget these:

"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." -Albert Einstein

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." -Albert Einstein

And:

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life." -Albert Einstein



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by megabytz
 


The point to the einstein quote was that a third grader was smarter than his professor, and smarter than most of us sitting on the internet at this time, and even that much intelligence did not make him an unbeliever of God.

And if people followed the basic morals of the Bible, than why are they still doing what they did before the Bible? You got rules at work right? Ever read them? Ever think "well duh, thats a no brainer" And still some screw head manages to break that rule. God had to put it into writing so we can't say "We didn't know!!".





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