How do you reconcile God, gays, and the bible?

As far as I can tell my sexual preference was never my choice. I'm a guy, and I never got aroused by a male body part. I've shared enough locker rooms to know this to be true ... The female body is a totally different matter. John Mayer's song title "Your Body Is A Wonderland" sums it up nicely. So I'm assuming that it is the same thing for homosexuals. They can't "control" their attraction for the same sex. It is hardwired, or God-given.

And here is the rub for all bible believers: How can something that God created be wrong, and at the same time be in opposition to scripture? I think this conundrum is at the root of Christian gay hate. Anybody who quotes the bible against homosexuality has to have a deep look inside first, and should explain how they've "discovered" their sexuality. It is much easier to bash gays than to look inward, and question Christian morals, and dogma.

I'm sure that a certain percentage of the population likes to experiment with their sexuality. That is a conscious choice I don't judge, and I think the devil has nothing to do with it neither. I'm specifically addressing folks who never had a choice re their sexuality. Where is that lack of choice coming from? If God was involved did He make, according to the bible, "broken specimen" aka homosexuals that don't live up to His own standards? Of course I don't think so, but I'm looking forward to reading your replies.

reply to post by AllIsOne


Interesting points. There was a study done over a long period of about 25 years, I can't recall what the study was for or who funded it, but they took around 50 two year old children and asked adults to study their behaviour and they way they played and interacted, mannerisms, body language etc. They then asked the adults to guess which children, in later life, would be gay. In nearly all cases, the adults correctly identified sexual orientation. Just food for thought.

Being gay was not forced on me, it's not a choice or a lifestyle. I knew that something about me was different before I even knew what sex was. And the kids at school knew as well. Kids see what adults try to deny and kids can be bloody cruel too. School was a hellish existence. I would deny it oh course, but the kids knew. Did I deserve that? Was that a choice? An experience that God was putting me through? The reason so many gay youths commit suicide ain't because they hate being gay as the religious right would have you believe, its because evil bulling kids hate them being gay while teachers look on and do nothing but turn the other way.

Thanks for posting this. I've been wanting to know this type of thing also. I liked the, "It is much easier to bash gays than to look inward, and question Christian morals, and dogma."

Originally posted by AllIsOne
And here is the rub for all bible believers: How can something that God created be wrong, and at the same time be in opposition to scripture?

First of all I would argue that the Bible is not clear on whether homosexuality is a sin or not. Most people will point to 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, but in my opinion those passages are referring to extreme debauchery and do not necessarily address a monogamous gay relationship. I think there's a lot to be read into the fact that Jesus never preached against homosexuality. But regardless, even if homosexuality is a sin, so is stealing a pen from your office. NONE of us is without sin. The message of the Bible is that we are all sinners, and we all fall short of the glory of God, and it's only through Jesus that we can be redeemed.

reply to post by Gman1803


Thank you for sharing this. If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger!

reply to post by AllIsOne


Amen to that. It does indeed.

First of all I would argue that the Bible is not clear on whether homosexuality is a sin or not.

reply to post by SavedOne


Go and try that on a Sunday morning in any church in the bible belt in 2011. Good luck ...

Originally posted by sydnie
Thanks for posting this. I've been wanting to know this type of thing also. I liked the, "It is much easier to bash gays than to look inward, and question Christian morals, and dogma."

Thank you. Can you say "bigotry" ...

For those interested, The BBC documentary "The Making of Me" is wonderful. It follows celebrity John Barrowman as he searches for what makes him gay. The results are quite astonishing. Its on You Tube.

reply to post by Gman1803


And here is a link to the BBC doc:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by AllIsOne

How do you reconcile God, gays, and the bible?

With "vague faith"; ignoring some passages and finding comfort in others.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by AllIsOne
And here is the rub for all bible believers: How can something that God created be wrong, and at the same time be in opposition to scripture?

First of all I would argue that the Bible is not clear on whether homosexuality is a sin or not. Most people will point to 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, but in my opinion those passages are referring to extreme debauchery and do not necessarily address a monogamous gay relationship. I think there's a lot to be read into the fact that Jesus never preached against homosexuality. But regardless, even if homosexuality is a sin, so is stealing a pen from your office. NONE of us is without sin. The message of the Bible is that we are all sinners, and we all fall short of the glory of God, and it's only through Jesus that we can be redeemed.

The bible is actually quite clear on this. Romans chapter 1 verses 26 and 27 I think.

What I really don't get, is the way people pick and choose scriptures. The typical, and most 'logical' explaination I've heard is "The old testimate rules don't stand, but the principles still do." This explains why we don't force women to marry men who raped them, and why we don't kill people who work on the sabbath. Why then, does this sin(abomination) still carry? All the other abominations (eating shrimp for example) aren't considered sins anymore.

The answer is simple. Rules that put down women were ok when women were still considered inferior. When society grew up, they decided to interpret different. Same with using the bible to justify slavery.

Now, we're interpreting the bible to still be against gays, simply because people fail to understand. Once people see something isn't really that wrong, they decide to interpret it ok. No ones gonna bother trying to understand gay people, because they don't have to worry about it applying to them. Lack of empathy for those different of you.

Just earlier today I heard a question, "Why did god make certain body parts and then command them to be chopped off(Circumcision)?", and it's the same question as this: Why did god make people feel a certain way and then tell them to suppress their feelings?

Makes sense when you believe that people at the time were superstitious and not that bright, but for people who believe it was inspired by god, I haven't heard any real explanation.

By respecting self determination within myself and other people. What you do is your business as long as it does not affect me and what I do is my business as long as it does not affect you. When our actions start impacting each other then some guidelines needs to be put in place, otherwise we are free to participate in this world as we choose.

I'm Atheist so I have no use for the bible.

During the years I did believe - - I fully understood the bible is written by man. There may be truth in the bible - - but the bible is not truth. I was given a brain to think for myself - - not to follow ancient dogma.

However - - I love this ministers explanation. Any God believer can CHOOSE this ministers explanation/interpretation. Those who CHOOSE hate and condemnation are responsible for their CHOICE.

Unlike homosexuals who are NOT responsible for choice - - because it is not a choice.

Homosexuality and the Bible
by The Rev. Dr. Walter Wink

Sexual issues are tearing our churches apart today as never before. The issue of homosexuality threatens to fracture whole denominations, as the issue of slavery did a hundred and fifty years ago. We naturally turn to the Bible for guidance, and find ourselves mired in interpretative quicksand. Is the Bible able to speak to our confusion on this issue?

The debate over homosexuality is a remarkable opportunity, because it raises in an especially acute way how we interpret the Bible, not in this case only, but in numerous others as well. The real issue here, then, is not simply homosexuality, but how Scripture informs our lives today.

Some passages that have been advanced as pertinent to the issue of homosexuality are, in fact, irrelevant. One is the attempted gang rape in Sodom (Gen. 19:1-29). That was a case of ostensibly heterosexual males intent on humiliating strangers by treating them "like women," thus demasculinizing them. (This is also the case in a similar account in Judges 19-21.) Their brutal behavior has nothing to do with the problem of whether genuine love expressed between consenting adults of the same sex is legitimate or not. Likewise Deut. 23:17-18 must be pruned from the list, since it most likely refers to a heterosexual prostitute involved in Canaanite fertility rites that have infiltrated Jewish worship; the King James Version inaccurately labeled him a "sodomite."

Several other texts are ambiguous. It is not clear whether 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 refer to the "passive" and "active" partners in homosexual relationships, or to homosexual and heterosexual male prostitutes. In short, it is unclear whether the issue is homosexuality alone, or promiscuity and "sex-for-hire."

www.soulforce.org...

Originally posted by kwakakev
By respecting self determination within myself and other people. What you do is your business as long as it does not affect me and what I do is my business as long as it does not affect you. When our actions start impacting each other then some guidelines needs to be put in place, otherwise we are free to participate in this world as we choose.

So one day you got up and decided your sexuality? Self determination means choice. My point is that it's not a choice as far as I can tell.

reply to post by AllIsOne


There is a lot to homosexual behaviour: environment, conditioning, genetics, psychology, experimentation and many other factors. My point is that it is up to each individual to decide for themselves how they progress through life. If they find happiness with a same sex partner I find no justification to interfere with that relationship. If they are abusing their position of power and causing unnecessary emotional, physical or psychological pain then we do have a problem that needs addressing.

I have meet people who do consider themselves homosexual and for some of them there is no choice, it is just how they are. For others the situation is not as clear, but it is up to them to work their way through it.

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

How do you reconcile God, gays, and the bible?

With "vague faith"; ignoring some passages and finding comfort in others.

Ah, selective faith. I see ... lol. The homosexuality issue is an indicator that the bible was not inspired by God. My God does not talk out of both sides of His mouth.

reply to post by AllIsOne

Ah, selective faith. I see ... lol. The homosexuality issue is an indicator that the bible was not inspired by God. My God does not talk out of both sides of His mouth.

What proof do you have that your God even talks at all? If not through scripture; tell me how your God communicates with you through nature.

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

Ah, selective faith. I see ... lol. The homosexuality issue is an indicator that the bible was not inspired by God. My God does not talk out of both sides of His mouth.

What proof do you have that your God even talks at all? If not through scripture; tell me how your God communicates with you through nature.

My God talks to me directly. I don't need a middle man aka priest et al. The more I quiet my mind, the more I can hear Him talk. I believe that God is screaming at people, but we are too busy minding our own business.

I grew up roman-catholic, then studied Buddhism, then became an Agnostic, and then had a personal experience that changed my spiritual attitude forever. I'm now certain that a creator exists, but I don't need to preach my belief. I'm secure enough in my faith to say that your belief system as an Atheist is as valid as mine. I think it all comes down to personal choice in that matter. If you're not tuned into a certain channel you won't hear the transmission so to speak.