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Word to the Wise!! I shot myself! Negligent discharges happen! (video)

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posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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I came across this story and video today and it certainly made me think twice about all aspects of training and carrying.

This clip is very real and contains some harsh language and rightfully so. I must give this guy tremendous credit for sharing his experience so that the rest of us may learn.



Anyone own a SERPA holster?? I don't because I was told not to buy one by a very trusted source.


There’s a YouTube video that’s currently circulating around the Internet that shows YouTuber Derek Grebner, of Tex Grebner Outdoors, taking his audience through his Negligent Discharge and how he wound up shooting himself in the leg with his Kimber 1911.

His expensive bullet wound could have inflicted much more damage and he was extremely lucky he didn’t blow out his entire knee cap. I strongly feel that this ND could have been prevented by better trigger discipline, but I’m sure he probably thinks that himself too.



While I agree with Derek’s statement that he didn’t feel it was caused by the Blackhawk SERPA holster, I still feel like the SERPA is NOT A BEGINNER’S HOLSTER. The SERPA holster relies on your index finger to slightly depress or graze the trigger guard release to draw your firearm. If trigger discipline is not fully developed or rushed, it’s easy for an index finger to curl and press the release, rather than slightly rub the release with a properly indexed trigger finger.

If the index finger is already curled while drawing, hopefully you can imagine how easy it would be for that finger to naturally find the trigger. I personally own and have used a SERPA multiple times and have my own reasons for disliking it, but this issue isn’t one of them. I feel an important take home message from viewing this video is that


www.itstactical.com...-10723

Lesson learned!! Always be aware of your trigger finger placement!! No matter how experienced you are. Just one of the reasons my local range prohibits drawing from the holster. I usually practice with action dummies.

 
Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.
edit on 7/7/2011 by ArMaP because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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I am glad they used the word negligent instead of accident.

Never the less, hopefully he makes a full recovery.
edit on 6-7-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Nice.

This is why I never holster a weapon in condition 1 (although I understand the logic from an operators standpoint).

Oh, and "Treat, never, keep, keep".



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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I own a thumb-drive holster by Fobus similar to the one he showed, but not a Serpa. And after watching that video and looking at a Serpa holster, I'll make sure me and my friends never own one.

I don't use my Fobus thumb-drive holster anyway due to how bulky it is. It's more of an open-carry holster. I use my IWB holster for conceal carry. I also don't practice drawing from my holster anyway at the range. The chances of someone being in a situation where they have to draw and immediately fire are very rare and 99% of people that carry will likely never be in that situation at all.

Thanks for posting the video to bring awareness to at least the Serpa holster, which I've never heard of, but it's burned into my memory now after watching Derek shoot himself. It probably scared him more than it hurt at first.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Wow, that could have ended much worse. I want to add one other thing, don't shoot alone! It sounded like he was by himself and if he had hit an artery he might not have made it alone. Always have someone with you for back up.
edit on 6-7-2011 by Soldier of God because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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How did he shoot himself with a 1911. with multiple safety devices.

Even in condition 1 you still have to drop the safety and press the grip safety plus hit the trigger.

I don't believe the holster was the problem

Ether a defective gun or a gun that had mods made to it for speed shooting.

The range i go to you have to show that your gun has all the safeties working right before they let you do practical pistol courses or matches.

And if you think its easy to happen with a 1911 A glock is downright dangerous.
www.google.com...



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_It probably scared him more than it hurt at first.


Having been on several combat tours and taken shrapnel and some brick fragments myself it amazed me how much of pain is evidently mental.

When I got hit (in the left calf), I didn't even realize it until one of my teammates pointed it out to me. Then it started throbbing and hurting like hell and burning. I almost passed out...but had obviously been walking around on the objective for several minutes that way. I know adrenaline and endorphins play a part but it not hurting until I looked at it was weird to say the least.

Noticed this as well with a lot of others who got wounded. Now it’s obvious say in massive trauma say a chest shot or a traumatic amputation that people notice right away and are in excruciating pain from the get go.

Me and the team and our medic had a lot of conversations about how much of pain must mental.

This dude is really lucky a little more angle on that entry and he could have shattered the femur or even hit the artery - he seemed to be alone on the range as well. Hope no one here shoots alone. Had he hit the artery he'd have bleed out in about 3 min. Been unconscious after 60 seconds or so. Happened to our Interpreter down range - nothing doc could do to save his life. He was a good man and a friend.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Soldier of God
Wow, that could have ended much worse. I want to add one other thing, don't shoot alone! It sounded like he was by himself and if he had hit an artery he might not have made it alone. Always have someone with you for back up.
edit on 6-7-2011 by Soldier of God because: (no reason given)


Roger that - I punished my daughter recently for that. Told her in no uncertain terms if you want to shoot just ask me I'll make time.

I also said that he looked to be alone in the vidieo - Star for you...you beat me to it.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by ANNED
How did he shoot himself with a 1911. with multiple safety devices.

Even in condition 1 you still have to drop the safety and press the grip safety plus hit the trigger.

I don't believe the holster was the problem

Ether a defective gun or a gun that had mods made to it for speed shooting.

The range i go to you have to show that your gun has all the safeties working right before they let you do practical pistol courses or matches.

And if you think its easy to happen with a 1911 A glock is downright dangerous.
www.google.com...


He mentioned the safety issue in the video. Apparently he was training with a 5.11 thumb drive holster earlier in the day and switched weapons and holsters. Muscle memory took over and he disengaged the safety on his 1911 by accident before are during the draw.

I essentially carry and train with the same weapon and holster all the time. Muscle memory is a bitch when you mix things up in the middle.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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S & F OP.

That man was real lucky.

Ditto on practicing alone: don't do it. Muscle mem is what you train towards, but as said previously, it can be a real danger when you mix and match holster systems and weapons in a relatively unfamiliar way.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by ANNED
A glock is downright dangerous.

A Glock is only dangerous to the negligent and untrained. A Glock's safety is on the trigger. The trigger also cannot be accidentally moved causing an accidental firing without the safety on the trigger depressed.

True, Glocks aren't for the untrained or inexperienced. However, people shouldn't be walking around with a live round in the chamber of a Glock anyway (unless your're an on-duty police officer). And no matter what kind of gun you own, whether it be a Glock or anything else, you should never "play" with your gun out of the holster unless the ammunition clip is removed and the chamber is clear.

This is all basic common sense knowledge that every gun owner should abide by.


P.S. I have a Glock 19 and love it. It's very accurate and easy to maintain.





edit on 6-7-2011 by _BoneZ_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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On the range, be it firearm, or in my case, bow, safety is paramount. On the bow arnge, most compound users like myself, use a bow release, it's like a trigger for your bow. ALWAYS know where your finger is, never on the trigger til you're ready to fire



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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That wasn't negligence, it was self-inflicted stupidity.'
He pulled the trigger early,
Very easy to do especially if you've had your trigger pull modified (taking bets here now$$)

But yes, it's good that he shared and that you posted it,
There's lessons for everyone and he's lucky to still have a leg.
Imagine if he had done this out in the wilderness somewhere a couple of hours away from civilization.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


You can see he pulled the trigger on the video. That gun can NOT just go off almost all guns made today can not fire with out the trigger being pulled because safeties in place.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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So many things...

Being alone at the range doing this type of shooting.

Changing equipment while doing this type of shooting.

Having what I consider a poor holster angle and location (he is a round boy).

On the plus side, he was using an FMJ load, probably target velocity.

For anyone thinking that caliber is the be all, end all of what makes a weapon effective... Watch this video... He barely flinches as he has a .45 ACP round run the length of his thigh and exit. true, there was no expansion and little muscle involvement, but I tire of threads like this that seem to put a premium on terminal ballistics in extremis... Just like in real estate... Location, location, location...

I applaud his candor and taking the big hit on the ego in making this video.


edit on 7/6/2011 by Mirthful Me because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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I betcha that dude, was glad he was using full metal jackets instead of hollow points.

You always, have to keep an eye out for people on our rifle and pistol range, that have there finger inside the trigger guard; when they are not engaged on the target. Of course, in a real deadly force situation, except in a free fire zone, you should not have your finger inside the trigger guard unless you intend to shoot at the target.

On our indoor firing range, which I don't frequent that madhouse anymore; they have pistol draws for law enforcement.
Besides the thousands of pockmarked cratered holes in the sidewalls and ceiling and floor of the range, I counted seven bullet holes in the carpet behind the firing line that were glued back in.

One day at that range I caught a teenage girl, dryfiring her Glock, 7 feet behind the firing line while I was stationed on the firing line.

The most frequent mistake made there: Is not having the pistol pointed downrange, when you take the firearm out of the case.

One day, at the same place I was standing just behind a man, that was cocking his brand new 500 Smith & Wesson, while he had his finger inside the trigger guard. His support hand was cupping the face of the cylinder. He had a negligent discharge. The bullet struck the floor two feet in front of him, and ricocheted to the side wall. He then, dropped the pistol on the floor, because the cylinder blast sliced a three inch long cut in the palm of his hand.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Erno86
 


It is scarey to hear about people like that being allowed to have loaded guns in their hands. Some states make it mandatory to attend a firearm class before you receive a permit or license. I think it should be required everywhere.






edit on 6-7-2011 by _BoneZ_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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I'm still a AGC member of our outdoor firearms range. Just last week, I had to remind a bullseye pistol shooter to have his finger outside the trigger guard, while he had the 22 pistol pointed at the concrete pad, on the firing line, close to his tender feet.

About 10 years ago, I was a witness to another negligent discharge. I frequent the range alot, so I have just about seen, every range safety error in the book. This guy- who I had never seen before, was sporting his range badge on the pistol range. He arrived with two other shooter's, who I had seen before on the range.

He splits ten firing stations apart from his two fellow shooter's from the same club; about 30 feet away from them, but only 10 feet away from me.

When the line was called hot, he proceeded to shoot with the classic one handed bullseye stance; with his 45 ACP 1911. Once again, this guy, had his finger inside the trigger guard, while the pistol was at rest, pointed at the concrete pad near his feet. Before I could warn him of his mistake, the gun went off, at that time; making a nice crater in the concrete pad about 6 inches from his right foot.

I advised the shooter, not to have his finger inside the trigger inside untill he was on target and ready too shoot. So, he then proceeded to perform the same error again; only this time, he did not have a negligent discharge. Thats when I wrote his range badge number down, and went to the range safety officer to complain.

They investigated the incident, at the next AGC board meeting, and that day of the incident, was the first and last time that I had ever seen that S.O.B.!!!

The worst incident, was perfomed on our outdoor pistol range again. The club member brought his guest to shoot his black powder pistol. I was on the opposite end of the firing line, when I witnessed the guest, with the member looking at him, while seated behind him. The male guest proceeded to raise his pistol, breaking the 180, pointed down the firing line at least 10 other shooter's, including me; cocked his pistol, at that moment. He then moved the pistol, with only his strong hand, and then he pointed the pistol toward the target. I walked over too them, and told them, that I going to file a complant with the RSO. Also, that day, was the last time that I ever saw that duo again.

The first incident that I ever witnessed was on our 100 yard range. The guy, who was on the benches, only 10 feet away from me. He stood up, and proceeded to manhandle his high power rifle. He said, "this safety don't work, he explained, " THIS SAFETY DON'T WORK!!!". POW!!! The rifle went off. The round landed about 15 feet in front of the firing line, just missing a crusher run stone ditch. I was glad that I had my safety glasses on, because it was a very windy day. My luck, I was downwind of the mishap, and my face was showered with grass, mud and dirt.

The guy, quickly packed his gear in his car and drove away. I then complained to the RSO. He asked me, "did you get his range badge number." My reply was: NO.
edit on 6-7-2011 by Erno86 because: added a word

edit on 6-7-2011 by Erno86 because: spelling

edit on 6-7-2011 by Erno86 because: added a few words



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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I just took a pistol course Saturday. I over heard the instructors talking about a very experienced individual dying as a result of a glock/holster incident. It is believed that this holster had an inner strap that caught the trigger as he went to remove his pistol. I did not butt in to this conversation so I am sorry I don't know more details, such as the holster type.

The most important lesson I learned in this class is that automatic pistols can be very different from one another and what is true for some (not being able to fire without a magazine, ect.) is not true for others.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Erno86
Once again, this guy, had his finger inside the trigger guard, while the pistol was at rest, pointed at the concrete pad near his feet. Before I could warn him of his mistake, the gun went off, at that time; making a nice crater in the concrete pad about 6 inches from his right foot.

I advised the shooter, not to have his finger inside the trigger inside untill he was on target and ready too shoot. So, he then proceeded to perform the same error again; only this time, he did not have a negligent discharge. Thats when I wrote his range badge number down, and went to the range safety officer to complain.



Keep your booger hooker off the boom-boom button! I heard that on a youtube training video and thought it was funny. Seriously I wonder if some of these people ever thought to have training? I just joined a VERY strict private range - and I am learning this was a very wise choice although there are ALWAYS human factor issues, I am hoping with my range selection, less so!



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