A plea for objectivity - Masonry

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posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 02:52 PM
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Right, so what I meant to say is that the world leader for the SRIA (but only the SRIA) will, if I understand correctly, be there at my initiation.

What is this odd red dot around my browser window?




posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
"a lack of proof is not a proof of lack"

Well put, AK.


Fence sitting is not a position, nor is the premise that despite all of the good works, and well documented contributions throughout history by distinguished (and anonymous) members of the "Craft", the possibility of ulterior evil motives hold sway over forming an opinion. The Nazis (yes, Adolph & company) get more credit, and more positive mention in threads here on ATS, than the Freemasons (by non Mason posters).

The patience, and continued diligence displayed by the Brethren here assembled, is above and beyond the call. The slander, disinformation, ignorance, and the outright intent to incite by certain "members" of ATS has accomplished little, those that perpetrate the contentious tone have learned, and gained nothing. The Craft is galvanized in their defense of the good name of Freemasonry; fortuitously the scale tips in favor of those who have interest in the fraternity, therein lies the bounty of working the low vales. I would submit that with regularity, a member posts that they have decided to petition, have petitioned, or has been recently initiated; and is looking forward to the next step in their journey to Light. Those that wish to denigrate the Fraternity do so knowing that they do not have the inherent qualifications that would induce them to solicit such an honor, nor the rectitude of character that would make one eligible for the Degrees of Freemasonry.

It must be a burdensome position to take, opposing such a well established and principled institution; there must be a sense of bravado, a misguided need to controvert a perceived authoritarian institution. In the Sixties, the emerging generation protested governments, wars, corporations, and themselves; and did it face to face with the very institution that they reviled. Sadly, today’s generations accomplishes the rebellion that is part of the coming of age mentality through the internet; agendas, and protests can be tailored to a whim. Anonymity provides a security blanket, neither the harsh wind of libel nor the chill of slander can penetrate the veil of obscurity provided by this form of dissent. The days of having to risk incarceration, the crack of a baton, or a hail of bullets has passed (unless one is unfortunate enough to live in one the MORE enlightened countries that bans Freemasonry). Today one may assail any individual (as AK recently has been), group (the Masonic membership of ATS), or organization (as the various bodies of Freemasonry have continually endured here), without any more risk than being exposed as a fabulist; one of the previously mentioned “members”. This “Rite of Passage” that is seemingly being ventured upon by several “members” concurrently, has little demand of substance. Maligning Freemasonry must hold some intrinsic value those who do so, it merely escapes the ken of those who have eclipsed such trivialities.

We who have received Light are obligated by the oaths we have freely taken, but more importantly by the strength of character, moral fiber, and above all faith, that those balloted favorably upon universally possess, to keep inviolable and sacred the Mysteries of the Order. This “Brotherhood” bestows upon us the confidence to weather any assault, regardless of its crude, and base nature, to rise above the repeated fabrications, and to retire from the fray with the unwavering truth that Freemasonry has, is, and will be the Compass that all other forms of human assemblage will measured against.

As a true “Traveling Man” I have had the distinct pleasure of seeing our accomplishments first hand; the hospitals, retirement homes, charitable kitchens, community services, public endeavors, and private good will; ever absent is a similar legacy demonstrated by those who profess a more “noble” belief. I have must have missed the fine contributions of these upstanding individuals, surely the ivory towers of philanthropic largesse by these “pillars” (forgive me my Brethren) must exist somewhere, a list will be forthcoming? Obviously the request for such a list is made with more than a modicum of contempt, there are no historical edifices for your ilk to hang their hat on, no one has benefited, in this world, or the next.

Your self-indulgent vitriol demonstrates your true nature, some misanthropic, auto-sycophant, bloviating your way to a self aggrandizing delusional state; for only there can your meager perseity be justified. This parody of the human condition has now been played out on a world stage; your infamy established, retire to the mundane from whence you came, consoled in that which you feel you have accomplished, surrounded by those that you formulate, an adoring constituency within the confines of your percipience, an Id of pathosis. This concludes my admonition, it is non-binding, and not intended to curtail your “creative efforts” nor supplant your “free speech”, merely to apprise you of the Crafts “critique of the arts” and the right to “abrogate speech”.

Philosophical Monkeys, not just for the “Wine and Cheese Crowd” anymore…

Edit: For paragraphs, and AK's honor restored, fees paid in full.

[edit on 12/8/2004 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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Well said, MirthfulMe!

"You have voted Mirthful Me for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month."

[edit on 12/8/04 by Bastet]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
The patience, and continued diligence displayed by the Brethren here assembled, is above and beyond the call. The slander, disinformation, ignorance, and the outright intent to incite by certain "members" of ATS has accomplished little, those that perpetrate the contentious tone have learned, and gained nothing.


Well said!

I was about to tell one of the "detractors" the other day, that due to the polarizing difference between the two groups (Masons and non-Masons)...I would choose to join the Masons simply because of much of the above patience and courtesy.

I applaud you all.
Now get back to posting you satan worshippers.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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Hey, MonkeyShriner, nice post. (and yes, I will also vote for you to be WayAbove, if I have to
)

I just had a coupe of concerns...

Which were appropriately dealt with by a kindly medical monkey.



Philosophical Monkeys, not just for the “Wine and Cheese Crowd” anymore…


Mmmm... I can't wait to dig in to that delicious monkey! (joking!)

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Well said!

I was about to tell one of the "detractors" the other day, that due to the polarizing difference between the two groups (Masons and non-Masons)...I would choose to join the Masons simply because of much of the above patience and courtesy.

I applaud you all.
Now get back to posting you satan worshippers.


Precisely the reason that men of all ages have eagerly sought the Lambskin Apron of a Master Mason; the distinguishing characteristics being an honorable attribute, the fraternal bond a lifelong gift, that will extend beyond this life, and into the next.

Thanks for the
, it's always nice to get a little thread "love"; and thank you to B, and AK, for the critiques, and the ATS "moola" (which of course will be spent foolishly, most likely on another case of Illuminati Wine, I was a sailor after all
). Thanks also to the regular posters of "Secret Societies" who are not, or not YET members of the Craft, who have, and will continue to make the discourse stimulating, and a worthwhile endeavor.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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Thoughtful posts by Alex and Mirthful certainly encourage me. As I type this I'm waiting for my Mason "contact" to call me and discuss the Brotherhood, although it's more likely that he'll call over the weekend.

I'd like to offer my opinion about the "sex appeal" of conspiracy theories and associated notions:

They seem to be an outgrowth of Libertarian, left-wing ideology, something that Noam Chomsky, for instace, would not endorse but which some of his more radical readership might. Certainly, there is a place for those who question authority, question the justification of power, and who look for ulterior motives. I am one of them, and proud to be so. All of this, however, does not venture beyond the realm of everyday human experience: politics, the economy, constitutional rights and individual freedoms, etc. Theories about the U.S. invasion of South Vietnam, the Neo-Conservative agenda, the distortions in the media - all of these ideas figure prominently in Libertarian discourse, and I'm glad they do.

So, wherefore this leap from questioning political policies to looking for devil-worshippers that want to rule our solar system? I don't know what caused this break from reality, but I can be sure of this: if the anti-mason conspiracy theorists applied their skepticism and curiosity to issues that affect us dierctly (in the TRUE spirit of Libertarianism), then we'd all be the better for it. But that's not happening. Why? Conspiracy theories and fantastical ideas that just might, with enough delusion, find a basis in reality, are more fun. Escapist, armchair academia. Real research can be boring, and real issues if not boring, are too worrisome and disturbing. It's not much fun to read about how the "manufacturing of consent" is at work in our everyday lives, but the notion that Masons at the 33rd degree communicate with alien beings, or the idea that, a la Erich von Danekin, the plans for an alien craft lie hidden beneath the royal chambers of the pyramid at Giza, are far more attractive. Sex appeal. Excitement. Somethnig truly intense for the imagination to gnaw on . . . . and run around in circles. Life can be boring sometimes, but that does not give us license to get carried away. Ultimately, reason and evidence must win. Certainly, I wouldn't mind seeing the Second Coming, and if Masons COULD communicate with aliens, I'd be tickled pink. All very interesting, but unprovable, and therefore no better than mental masturbation.

I'm not interested in attempting to prove the unprovable, and neither should anyone else. The response to the doldrums of reality should not be about wild theories that slander and malign people with whom you talk to every day, but rather, it should be about learning and getting more involved in exploring those issues that CAN be proven and bear real meaning for your life and the lives of others.



[edit on 12-8-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I was about to tell one of the "detractors" the other day, that due to the polarizing difference between the two groups (Masons and non-Masons)...



I don't perceive any polarization between Masons and non-Masons.

I do see an ongoing rift between members defending Masonry and members using fake multiple identities pretending to be anti-Masonic.

Big deal. This is a children's playground for most members isn't it?

[edit on 12-8-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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The only rift I see is between the hatemongers that claim to be christians and attack masonry, and masons, who know the truth and are appalled at the spew these folks manage to regurgitate.

When all is said and done, folks like neonhelmet and detectiveperez are more damaging to themselves than to masonry, and, unfortunately, the worse they do, the worse their falsehoods and vomitus become.

We have one that just doesn't want to be confused by facts, he has his opinions, by g-d, and he will die by them... or at least wallow in ignorance. Then we have the other, an ostensible investigator that has yet to investigate anything before posting it.

Now, our objective, as masons, is simply to get the truth out in front of folks, but what we see is the same tired old lies... Pike this, Eastern Star that, illuminati the other... you would think that before a masonic critic would BECOME a masonic critic, that he would take the time to investigate the wild and wacky claims made against us by OUTSIDERS, outsiders who clearly have no concept on that which defines and makes up this fraternity of ours.

No, the plain truth is that there are three goups of folks: Masons, masonic critics, and those who either have never heard of us, or who have and don't really know anything about us. The point of posting in contrast to the hatemongers by Masons is for those that are curious or are seeking more information.

We are really not interested in converting anyone, that is not the masonic way.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I was about to tell one of the "detractors" the other day, that due to the polarizing difference between the two groups (Masons and non-Masons)...



I don't perceive any polarization between Masons and non-Masons.

I do see an ongoing rift between members defending Masonry and members using fake multiple identities pretending to be anti-Masonic.

Big deal. This is a children's playground for most members isn't it?

[edit on 12-8-2004 by MaskedAvatar]

I think he meant more of a polarizations between Masons and Anti-Masons. Which I think any logical person would side with Masonry.

The Masons on this board have always held themselves above the pety mud slinging. Oh don't get me wrong, they sling the mud also, they just sling it with out getting dirty. And the mud they use has its roots in reality. Everyday I read these boards, I see the filth that is said about, and to these men (and yes though I have not taken my degrees, I do feel a bit involved as I am close to being a brother myself, 2 more weeks), I see them repeatedly attacked, and yet they reply with a dignity and a source of knowledge that still impresses me, and continues to impress me each day. Even though I have never been able to shake the hands of these men (ML, MM, AK, TD, Lev, and others) I hold them in the highest of reguards, and do hope to one day have a chance to put a face to the sig. I think the fact that these men do what they do for their communities, family, friends, and themselfs, just to be unjustly bashed here and other places, and to still be the ones taking the high road, speeks volumes.

So, when I do recieve my first degree in two weeks, and I join the ranks of masonry, I will walk and smile a bit prouder, knowing I share a bond with men like them.

Just a little appreciation towards the guys on this board, who have not only taught me about Masonic topics, but that have also taught me a new level of respect, honor and dignity.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:20 AM
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I have seen the work of a few very bad men who are Masons. The first third party of America was a rebellion against the Masons and the net work that corrupted the early history of the Republic. The party was called ''The Anti Mason Party'' My personal experience with the Enochian style of thinking was with modern Domestic enemies. You can bee in a silly Frat and you can be in one that has National Secrets. Novus Ordo Seclorum, Order out of Chaos, Do what thou wilt be the whole of the law. These are just dummies that have tax exempt status and subsidize a failing system. If the masons were not so pantheistic, they would have amended the Constitution properly, like this. All tax shall be collected through commerse and all freemarket commerse shall not be bought or sold but by a living wage and an insurance of a minimum standard of healthcare to be funded by commerce... The influence of the afluent or knowledgable as a result of hidden work can build a Pyramid Sceme but, will never render world peace. Why would anyone, save a thief, choose to kill his brother and hide from God? Ask a Mason.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:30 AM
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Regarding the previous poster:

I don't have the energy to deal with this yahoo AND DP AND Neonhat, so will someone else please work with him in an attempt to provide sanity? I'm putting him on ignore now.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 02:06 AM
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Well I admit, that was a nasty shot accros you boat, sorry. Got your attention though, eh? I can be civil no punn intended to a war, darn it. I can't help myself. Help me man. Help me understand. Maybe those guy's I met were just nasty people who happened to be Masons, although they did show up one strange day. I made a call to a friend who's dad got killed. I told him to meet me in front of the Iwo Memorial. This dude who I met down by CENTCOM showed up. He was the guy who gave me this book called Enochian PHysics. That was four years earlier. I made that call to my friend from a very significant place up the hill from the Iwo. Spooky huh? Ya, spooked me too. Well, I have walked the halls of the Scottish Rite Headquarters on 16th street and admired the picture of Sam Nunn and BoB Dole that adorn the walls and shuffeled the steps of the George Washington Masonic Temple so I know a few things about Masonry. You can't really tell me anything right? Just ignore the dummie. That's ok.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by Darktalon

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I was about to tell one of the "detractors" the other day, that due to the polarizing difference between the two groups (Masons and non-Masons)...



I don't perceive any polarization between Masons and non-Masons.


I think he meant more of a polarizations between Masons and Anti-Masons.



I knew that. ZZZ has often labelled this Mason to be arrogant and various other not so nice descriptions, so I thought it would be timely to arrogantly correct him on the distinction between a non-entity and an anti-entity.

Back to regular programming zzzzzzz.




posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 02:52 AM
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MaskedAvatar log Friday the 13th:

1. The above occurrence has taken place often enough.

2. MA will tie an ATS string around MA's finger to remind him at all times when in this seat that magestica and MA share a seat and a mask and a PC.

3. magestica is not a Freemason. Or is she?

4. ZZZ has never labelled magestica as arrogant or anything not so nice. That has been reserved by him for MA.

5. String under preparation.




posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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Hi,

Actually most of the masons i have met, and there have been many, are good people. There is a small percentage estimated at around 7-8% ( where this figure came from, i have no idea) which sort of spoil it for the rest. I am biased however, and overtly so, remarkably as i am as openminded a soul as anyone could care to meet .

Why?

www.murderingmasons.co.uk

You see, for the last 20 years or so i have been on a masonic hate list. The "Mysterious Examiner" passed sentance on me and declared that i am " A hanged man", they don't hang you, they ruin every aspect of your life. As open minded a person as i am, i cannot forgive them for taking my life away from me. If you say i probably deserved it, the answer is no. I am a good man, who is hounded by a bunch of sour, sorry folk. It's time the world learned about their secrets.

If you say i sound bitter about my experiences, too right i am. Was it malcolm X who wrote. " We didn't land on Plymouth Rock, plymouth rock landed on us" I was just living my life, then along came a miserable dark, shaddow.

Yours

Stan



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Sweet Jesus.

I'm led to believe you're either mentally ill, paranoid, or simply hate masons, for a few reasons:

1.) Your slanders against the masons are vicious, yet you present what are for the most part, unsubstantiated claims. Did these things happen to you? Why would they do this to you?

2.) You were pressured to join? Funny thing. I want to join and I'm the one who has to get on my contact's ass to call me back.

3.) I think your problem isn't really mason related, from the way you present it. They might be masons from your former lodge or whatever the case may be, but I suspect you DID something personal, and one of the boys and his mates decided to do a number on you, at the very most.

In any case, the title of "murdering masons" is not only inappropriate regardless of what group did what to you, but I'm also sure it's getting you that much more trouble. And it should.

WHY don't I believe you? Notwithstanding your claims, I haven't heard the OTHER side. I'd LOVE an opportunity to speak to those you have slandered so liberally.

Expect NO sympathy from me until then. Until I see actual evidence, hear the other side, you're just another looney headcase with a nutty website. Have fun.




posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
3.) I think your problem isn't really mason related, from the way you present it. They might be masons from your former lodge or whatever the case may be, but I suspect you DID something personal, and one of the boys and his mates decided to do a number on you, at the very most.


I don't believe any of the things this guy said really happened, but if they did, it's grounds for expulsion for the Masons involved. That kind of behaviour is completely contrary to the central tenants of Freemasonry -- we simply do not do that kind of thing, no matter the provocation. You'll learn that quickly when you join.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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Thanks AK . . . that did occur to me. At the very least, it's outright criminal behaviour that is begin alleged, and not simply by one person, but by what . . a whole lodge?? Ridiculous.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by magestica
I knew that. ZZZ has often labelled this Mason to be arrogant and various other not so nice descriptions, so I thought it would be timely to arrogantly correct him on the distinction between a non-entity and an anti-entity.

I stand corrected.


I also deny the alleged charges against me. Any negative comment I would hypothetically have written, would have been structured in such a way that plausible denial could occur. I call it MaskedAvatar style.



Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
1. The above occurrence has taken place often enough.

2. MA will tie an ATS string around MA's finger to remind him at all times when in this seat that magestica and MA share a seat and a mask and a PC.

3. magestica is not a Freemason. Or is she?

4. ZZZ has never labelled magestica as arrogant or anything not so nice. That has been reserved by him for MA.

5. String under preparation.

As stated above, I stand corrected.

Although, technically I am sitting. In my own chair. With my own computer. No mask though...


I would not label magestica as such, but IF I did such a thing to someone...it is because they are truly a worthy adversary.

As for the string preparation, I hope that is not to be future termed Preparation-H.





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