69 yr old homeowner opened fire during no-knock police raid on his home

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posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by Hillbilly123069
 


SnF for this

now am I the only wishing the old dude had taken out the cops then walked away a free man for not having done anything wrong?

Damn hard to hold back on this kind of outright gestapo tactics truly America has fallen far since Fur Obama took his throne.

for the record I try not to hate on the cops i know they are mostly just following orders but if I'd quit before ld let them turn me into the monsters they are becoming...




posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by ProphecyPhD

Originally posted by kro32
Once again people are taking this way out of context.

Taking from the op's sources.

The raid happened at 10 a.m.

There was a search warrant issued.

It was not a no-knock search warrant.

The police did knock and identify themselves before entry.

They were meant with deadly force

They responded per regulations

So what is the problem?


I'm not a police lover but this seems pretty much cut and dry. The police had a warrant (no knock or not) and the man shot at them. Protest no knock warrants if you're mad but he shot at them and they shot back. Cut and Dry.


Ahh the old just "following orders" line. Um No. People should be held accountable for their actions. And I would like to know what evidence they had to get the warrant? Just an anonymous phone call? People who commit mass crimes against humanity need to be prosecuted for it.
The Police never had existed to "defend the citizenry". They where created to protect the rich and to protect criminals from the citizenry(make sure the crook made it to trial).



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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Wait a minute... Now the SWAT team is being used for selling painkillers? How bout raiding the big Pharmas for making such addictive painkillers? #in hypocrites...



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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Reply to post by kro32
 


Nearly everyone I know does.

From bankers to teachers to mechanics.

100% of home invasions happen at home.

If I'm not carrying at home there's at least one in arms reach.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by kro32
 



People at age 69 are never asleep at 10 a.m.

They go to bed at six and wake up at 5.


Obvious troll is obvious.

No 2nd line needed, you're all being wound up.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 




The police broke the law when they entered the property without permission. The police broken the law when they destroyed the personal property of the civilian. The police broke the law when they killed a man. This absolutely destroys their self defense argument, you cannot break and enter, commit murder then justify yourself with a self defense argument.


Exactly i don't think murdering people over drugs and/or illicit substances is the way to go; its tragic to see people get killed all the time daily because they want to enforce this drug policy.

I find it utterly disgusting that they will raid peoples homes; when most of the time the people who's homes are being raided probably think intruders(Robbers,Criminals) are breaking into their house.

After all Any Robber Criminal Intruder could just yell and say they are Police; You never know

So i think any Police who obey illegal order to break and enter someones property without permission for illegal drug and illicit substances etc.

Is willing to commit murder on an innocent citizen.

They are evil they will kill people and claim self-defense but they should not be raiding homes for these issues.

They should figure out better ways to do it. Not Raid The Home and KILL KILL KILL



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by UcDat
 





for the record I try not to hate on the cops i know they are mostly just following orders but if I'd quit before ld let them turn me into the monsters they are becoming...


That's true. Most cops nowadays i see them as just highly paid criminals thugs and murderers.

Its absolutely rings truth that's what most cops are Murderers Thugs and Criminals In uniform.

They are just doing it for the money they don't care about anything most cops are Narcissistic Egotistical Sociopaths.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by TheUniverse
They should figure out better ways to do it. Not Raid The Home and KILL KILL KILL



Back in time when people werent insane they used to set up stings to catch you in the act and arrest you on the scene.

Now I guess it's cheaper or more efficient to kick in your door with a paramilitary force. Even though the typical payout for such an act in a lawsuit is around $300,000 of taxpayer dollars and the likelihood of the force escalation ending in death is outrageously high.

Some asshat somewhere decided door kicking was better.

My guess that asshat was some 12 year old boy who thinks playing army is cool. Or some wannabe roid rager who suffers from massive scrotal shrinkage. Or a representative from the good old federal government who sees the benefits of a murder happy paramilitary force roaming the streets to serve the tyranical goals of the near future.

Either way it wasnt a well thought out decision. And definitely wasnt done for our benefit.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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OR...........................selling your pain pills like the PHARMACEUTICAL companys do to ANYONE who says the have a bit of a pain shouldn't be ILLEGAL! It's only illegal because the pill corperations saw they where loosing money to the common people.."whoa whoa whoa..we can't have any of THAT." Bought a senator a boat and BOOM it's a crime...



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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I'm sure they knew it was a 69 year old guy they were looking for... couldn't they have knocked first?
I mean come on, it wasn't a gang raid.
No matter what it could have been handled better than this.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by Hillbilly123069
 


Is it so hard to surround the house, and knock?

It seems the US authorities are given much more rights to conduct such actions and it is absolutely unsafe for innocent people's houses who are being raided.

I guess they are bring the Afghan war home, the same happens in Afghanistan in daily basis. Houses are raided at night, everyone's hands tied behind them and their eyes blindfolded. Welcome to the New World Order.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by confreak
It seems the US authorities are given much more rights to conduct such actions and it is absolutely unsafe for innocent people's houses who are being raided.


One of these recent SWAT use studies, either from CATO or Rockwell I forget, had a quote from a soldier in Afghanistan who said flat out that the rules they are working under over there are more restrictive and constraining than the rules the cops are working with over here.

You're more likely to experience a violent home breaking murderous raid in America than you are in Afghanistan.

Good stuff.

ETA: Here it is


Most American police SWAT teams probably have fewer restrictions on conducting forced entry raids than do US forces in Afghanistan. For our troops over here to conduct any kind of forced entry, day or night, they have to meet one of two conditions: have a bad guy (or guys) inside actively shooting at them; or obtain permission from a 2-star general, who must be convinced by available intelligence (evidence) that the person or persons they’re after is present at the location, and that it’s too dangerous to try less coercive methods.


www.rutherford.org...
edit on 6-7-2011 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Sek82
Our country needs more cross-agency supervision and quality control of operating procedures. No knock policies not only put both LEOs and civilians at great risk of fatalities (obviously),


Agreed 110%. Believe it or not there is no national standard for training, SOP, discipline... some things are set by the states (training) but everything else is up to the department. This IMO is a huge failing.

Agreed 110% on the need to SEVERELY reduce the utilization of no-knock raids. There are much better ways to pull off a search warrant than forcing entry. As a case in point my department used to execute search warrants when the suspect was not in the house. It's rather easy to have a patrol officer make a traffic stop or do the search while the suspect is at work- and it guarantees stories like this do not happen.

No-knocks should only be used (IMO) in hostage/kidnapping situations where the sole concern is preservation of life.


Originally posted by Sek82
but it is so extreme in my opinion that even in the theatre of "war" abroad, typically there's an attempt to make an effort to offer residents/potential combatants the ability to comply with commands/make them aware of our presence and intent before blazing in.


Kind of off base there brother


In military operations speed, surprise and violence of action are the basis for successful raids. A soldier does NOT give the enemy a warning or time to shoot back. What you suggest is the exact opposite of combat operations. For counter-insurgency that is true though. COIN places a VERY high value on good relations with the locals.


Originally posted by Sek82
Heck, a situation like this could have probably been settled with a phone call.

Most likely it could have- or at least with some good intelligence on the subject and forethought on the police's part. Forced entry is VERY dangerous for both sides. I'm not saying that a 70 year old won't kill any more than I am saying a 12 year old won't kill but rather that there is really no need for forced entry if the police do their homework. I am sure the guy would have gone to the store at some point... execute the warrant then. Nobody home- nobody gets shot or scared half to death.


Originally posted by Sek82
But here's the deal, you get these local swat/police teams that train up all the time with little else work to actually do, and when they get a mission, they put it in their own minds "this is it" and expect some action.


Spot on! Coupled with the militarization of the police force whose basic job description should be seen as "keeping the peace" you get incidents like this.


Originally posted by Sek82
End results these past few months have been individuals who have received sometimes more than 50 rounds of fire directed at them and many may agree, it needs to be addressed.


In this case a 69 year old man attempted to return fire and died. Should my house be raided those officers would have found a very different animal inside. Not one of them would have made it past the fatal funnel. That is not bragging or internet tough guy talk- it is simple fact. I have the training and experience to ensure that not one invader gets further than the bottom stair across my threshold.

Out here where I live there have been a ton of home invasions. I deal with portable, high value items as a business- watches (Panerai, IWC, Omega and Breitlings.. won't touch a Rollie lol). Anyone kicking in my door is going to be assumed to be there to cause myself and my family harm as well as to steal my goods. I also do not sleep with a handgun near my bed. I sleep with a FN-FAL near my bed and WILL use it.

That being said if the police have a warrant and knock on my door like normal people I'll be glad to open it and invite them in.
edit on 6-7-2011 by SFA437 because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-7-2011 by SFA437 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Hillbilly123069
 



And this is why I hate cops. I was hoping to read that he took a few with him.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Drug problem solved excellent work officers, I feel remarkably safer. I wonder if you will ever find the two young missing brothers in my area?



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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OK, thats it.

I have had enough, I am going to install steel frames and steel doors, and rig shotguns to each of them.

edit on 6-7-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Hillbilly123069
 


Just one more tool to whittle down our bill of rights. Many posts I have reviewed lately go into the common citizen being blocked or outright stripped of constitutional rights. Where will it end? That is the scary piece to think about..



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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This is total Bull. I'll be damned if they couldn't have gotten him in town and served the warrant.

All of this over a few Prescription drugs? It isn't like this guy was Chapo Guzman or some other major drug lord.

Here's an interesting read for anyone interested. Highlights that the cops had different options.


Second, the police are the ones who decide the preponderance of force used against criminals. The military uses terms such as 'reasonable force' and 'proportional force to the threat'. You don't drop a 2,000 pound bomb on a target in the middle of a market square, for instance. You wait until the target is separted from the crowded area or use a different piece of equipment or tactic to neutralize a threat. The police didn't follow this common sense approach. They decided to use militant tactics against an elderly man; breaking a door down in a poorer residential neighborhood and with guns drawn. That the result was a shooting death is not as much of a shock as the cavalier attitude from the police officers and lack of introspection afterwards. If no one is willing to hold themselves accountable, and if no one in the city government is willing to crack down on such police abuse, then nothing will change and another police-induced tragedy will simply be a matter of time.


jamesriverjournal.com...



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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edit on 6-7-2011 by AlexKintner because: change of heart



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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nevermind, figured it out....
edit on 6-7-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)





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