69 yr old homeowner opened fire during no-knock police raid on his home

Most normal people do not have 16 guns in their house or walk around their house armed. He was displaying the signs of a drug dealer.

The police found evidence of drug dealing apparantly. This doesn't sound as suspicious as the op makes it out to be.

Originally posted by kro32

The police did knock and identify themselves before entry.

They were meant with deadly force

They responded per regulations

So what is the problem?

Did they "knock" like a door to door sales person would or did they "knock" like a little kid? Also how loud were they when identifying themselves?

I've seen several videos in which the cops barely tapped on the door as if it were on fire and identified themselves in barely a whisper. To bad the only other witness to this is the old man who probably had a hearing aid.

Hear is some clips of william cooper all so known as Bill cooper. He was a patriotic radio host. He exposed allot and with out him we would not have as many people open to conspiracy. He touch on every thing from JFK to extra terrestrial biological entity's.
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by kro32
Most normal people do not have 16 guns in their house or walk around their house armed. He was displaying the signs of a drug dealer.

You must be one of those *cringe*... Liberals. You guys are getting easier and easier to spot.

He wasn't walking around the house armed, it was stated he usually slept late with a gun beside his bed. The police kicking in his door probably woke him up, and being asleep for the "POLICE" announcement, didn't know they were cops. Half blind and scared, he open fire on the intruders.

It's nice to know a group of heavily armed cops could kick in my door right now and kill me if a pissed off ex-girlfriend made an anonymous tip about alleged "drug deals" happening in my home.

reply to post by ProphecyPhD


There is no justification in unnecessary killing. No visibly marked police vehicles. The neighbor sees no announcing their presence or intention. They pull up like well. Check this video. If these guys were wearing police uniforms though the vehicle is unmarked, you're going to throw up your arms? Its happened before and this is the time you have to deduce what's is going on. Even Ohio recognizes the short-sightedness of an unmarked police vehicle, as an example. And considering the police brutality stories getting rampant across the country, I wager it will happen with more frequency.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Adyta


People at age 69 are never asleep at 10 a.m.

They go to bed at six and wake up at 5.

How do you know he was in bed? I didn't see that reported anywhere. And to the other poster who asked, I have no idea how loudly they knocked as I wasn't there.

Just going by the info in the article which is either true or not. Until more details are known i'm just guessing like the rest of you.

Originally posted by Hillbilly123069
reply to post by ProphecyPhD

 

There is no justification in unnecessary killing. No visibly marked police vehicles. The neighbor sees no announcing their presence or intention. They pull up like well. Check this video. If these guys were wearing police uniforms though the vehicle is unmarked, you're going to throw up your arms? Its happened before and this is the time you have to deduce what's is going on. Even Ohio recognizes the short-sightedness of an unmarked police vehicle, as an example. And considering the police brutality stories getting rampant across the country, I wager it will happen with more frequency.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 6-7-2011 by Hillbilly123069 because: (no reason given)

I agree 100% but this started in the "hood" and you let it slide. I happen to live in the "hood" so none of this shocks me.

I have had police come into my home and put me face down on my hallway floor at gunpoint and then leave without arresting ANYBODY

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin

Now that it swings full circle people are mad

reply to post by kro32

William A. Cooper had poor eyesight because of cataracts and would often sleep late

"People around here sleep with a gun beside their bed because of all the home invasions we've had," Zacharias said.

Did you even read the articles?

Originally posted by kro32

People at age 69 are never asleep at 10 a.m.

They go to bed at six and wake up at 5.

Nice stereotyping there. I know over a dozen individuals who are in that same age group that go to bed late at night and wake up late. Not everyone goes to bed at the same time no matter what age they are.

I probably would have done the same thing if a bunch of men broke into my house, and been just as dead. When was thew last time anyone saw a police raid of any kind where there officers weren't wearing ski masks? And who isn't going to defend their home from masked intruders, regardless of what - if anything - they are yelling?

The guy was 69, he lived alone, and wasn't a threat to anybody. The cops didn't need to bust in like they did to take the old guy into custody. He probably would have had two officers knocking and asking to come in sit down for coffee. I just don't see anything that justifies a SWAT raid here.

This will happen more and more as police tactics become more militarized and our 4th Amendment rights are attacked by activist judges. Eventually the police are going to come up against someone who is well armed and knows how to use their weapons. I'm afraid the body count is only going to rise, and police officers will be among those killed. When that happens, watch for the 2nd Amendment to come under the gun, even more so that it already has through Obama's "Stealth Campaign."

S&F for the OP

Lets break this down into the plainest possible terms...

5 police officers with guns get out of an unmarked van and kick in the door to a house. They are shot at and in return shoot back. Civilian shooter is killed. Police use self defense argument.

I see a few problems with this, from the beginning

The police broke the law when they entered the property without permission. The police broken the law when they destroyed the personal property of the civilian. The police broke the law when they killed a man. This absolutely destroys their self defense argument, you cannot break and enter, commit murder then justify yourself with a self defense argument.

Legally however, the police broke no rules.

The law has been replaced by a legal system people, a legal system hijacked by the rich and powerful.

-Lightrule

reply to post by Adyta


Yes I did read the article.

Please point me to the part where it says he was asleep.

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


Learn to recognize sarcasm and you will be a much happier person in life.

But my point stands that most elderly people aren't asleep at that time. That of course doesn't mean that he wasn't.

reply to post by kro32


Read this article. It doesn't say he was asleep, he says he usually slept late with a gun beside his bed... which is why I said he MIGHT have been asleep at the time the police were identifying themselves.

reply to post by Adyta


So we are right back where we started before you called me a liberal.

Until we know the facts it's all irrelavant anyways. He's got some quick reflexes for an elderly person though if he was asleep. I know how fast those cops can break in a door and be on you so coming out of a dead sleep while not seeing or hearing very well, grabbing your gun and firing off rounds is quite a feat.

And if his hearing was that bad that he couldn't hear the shouts of "Police" how is he gonna hear a door being broken. I imagine they are close to the same decibal level.

Originally posted by sabbathcrazy
Hear is some clips of william cooper all so known as Bill cooper. He was a patriotic radio host. He exposed allot and with out him we would not have as many people open to conspiracy. He touch on every thing from JFK to extra terrestrial biological entity's.
www.youtube.com...

Wrong William Cooper.

Probably dobbed in by one of his own customers because he refused to keep giving him credit. That happens a lot.

Originally posted by kro32
So we are right back where we started before you called me a liberal.

Of course we are... you liberals like to argue in circles.

reply to post by kro32


That really wasn't sarcasm the way it was posted, but if you insist it is, then sure why not, whatever floats your boat.

reply to post by Adyta


Been called alot of things in my life but never a liberal hehe

have to add that one to my book

Originally posted by kro32
So we are right back where we started before you called me a liberal.

Until we know the facts it's all irrelavant anyways. He's got some quick reflexes for an elderly person though if he was asleep. I know how fast those cops can break in a door and be on you so coming out of a dead sleep while not seeing or hearing very well, grabbing your gun and firing off rounds is quite a feat.

And if his hearing was that bad that he couldn't hear the shouts of "Police" how is he gonna hear a door being broken. I imagine they are close to the same decibal level.

You know, I always like it when people like you storm into threads. It clearly shows the lack of any need for this sort of behavior with law enforcement, due to your arguments always being flimsy, dismissive and offensively silly. You people always have the same methods. You come in, immediately display your willingness to dismiss the entire case, claiming you either know a thing about law enforcement because you are an officer yourself, or you extrapolate sympathy on behalf of all law enforcement, to back up your claims.

"Everything the officers did was right, and this man was clearly a criminal, case closed. This is clearly evident by all the 'facts' I made up on the spot, by attacking the man's character whom I know nothing about, and I even have revealing information on his hobbies, morning habits, sexual promiscuities, and exclusive information about how his toast always lands butter-side down when he drops it."

Then, you quickly get into some ludicrous arguments over ridiculous semantics, goading people into your trite and vitriol, then try to shut the whole thing down by claiming "we know nothing of this case, so everything is irrelevant".

So which is it? Is your opinion relevant, or is it not. I prefer to have my opinions relevant when I choose to discuss something. If nothing is relevant, why did you come in here and dismiss the entire case with your not so sarcastic 'facts'? I didn't find it all that funny, and if it was sarcastic, it was the driest sarcasm I've seen all night.

Never mind the fact that they raided a man's house for legally prescribed opiates, something pharmacies hand out like candy corn on Halloween, with little to no oversight whatsoever. Outside of caffeine, it's probably the most abused substance in the United States. Due to the fact of it being prescribed everywhere, to everyone and their dog. Yet they raided his house anyway, shot him down, and found a few empty bottles of medication. Excessive force much? Dystopian nightmare yet? What is it going to take for you people to simply say, "Yea, that's probably too much. People are obviously in a state of fear and are getting desperate."

If my house was "raided" under asinine pretense, and considering I'm not engaged in any crimes that I figure would warrant such a raid, then I would do exactly what this man did, and that would be to engage in some form of combat to defend myself. Due to the fact that I'm not a criminal, least of all a violent one, and anyone busting into my house probably has intent to kill me. I don't take kindly to having my house literally assaulted with a combat team. My life loses it's value if I feel a team of sociopaths can break into my home on the whims of a gossip-hen, and with the intent to kill me if possible. If you think this should be normal behavior in the United States for such infractions as "distributing prescribed medication" (exactly how much are they scripting this man?!), then you probably need to take medication yourself, probably a sedative or tranquilizer so you can leave the rest of us in non-violent, non-repressive, peace and prosperity.

When people's beliefs and ideals lend to the necessity of combat teams entering your home and killing you dead for the slightest infractions, then maybe it's time to take a few steps back, take a deep breath, think, then exhale. Now repeat after me, "It's going to be okay."