ATS Reality: CoIntelPro, Shills, and Socks: The Definitive Guide, page 3

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reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:19 PM by 1SawSomeThings

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

The reality is that those you think may be a shill are numbers 2-5, and actual "shills" in the severe minority (if at all). So the best strategy is not to sweat the motives and treat them as you would any person who simply disagrees -- state your case with authority, excellent back-up, well-composed responses, and polite compassion. You may not change their opinion, but the nature of your response may change the opinion of the thousands of other people likely to read your response, but who never considered joining ATS.

I don't feel that ATS owners, management or moderators are in any way part of a disinfo campaign or alphabet agency plants. No evidence so far.

But consider the 9/11 forum, where the same three (supposedly three different) guys show up like white on rice any time a reasonable thread is posted. The far-fetched ones with UFOs, holograms etc. are left alone by this crew.

This same 3 post 99.9% of their material on the 9/11 forum, going back two years or more, and are relentless with the way they tag-team newcomers or experienced members who are trying to make a new point. If they are really different people I would be surprised.

Are they Shills, COINTELPRO? Maybe, maybe not; but definitely dedicated to goal-keeping in the 9/11 forum

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:20 PM by Pimander

Originally posted by BanMePlz
Kind of Odd for a conspiracy website to be moderated by skeptics ...

Looks to me like someone badly needs to understand the real difference between a sceptic (English spelling) and believer/unbeliever.

An opposite of a sceptic could be considered gullible or credulous... Does that help?

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:21 PM by schuyler

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
His take-away: the agencies who would do such a thing are so under-funded, under-staff, over-worked and lacking both appropriate technology and skilled IT people. The good news for us is that they're really not a threat. The bad news for us is that these are also the people tasked with cyber security against outside threats to the nation. Think about that.

Exactly, but your conspiracy-laden members don't really want to hear that. I've talked until I'm blue in the face about how this stuff does work, and is likely to work on a place like this. But that's like telling a fundamentalist Christian that Jesus never existed. That ATS is as you say it is simply is not in their worldview. It is so ingrained into their psyches that it would take de-programming to get it out. (Oh, no. We can't have that. Programming!)

I think some people treat this like a Second Life game. Characters get made up and played until the dividing line between real and fantasy becomes so blurred that there is effectively no difference at all. If I were a bona fide agent charged with keeping track of 'peripheral groups' and I came across some of the conspiracies bandied about here, my conclusion would be that the best course of action would be to tip toe away quietly. They are doing very little harm and they are keeping busy on sites like this cooking up more conspiracies. If there ever were a real conspiracy it would get lost here and buried amongst the fakes. They are their own worst enemies when it comes to effectiveness because they really do not understand the difference between reality and their own fantasies. This little world that they have created for themselves is a perfect place for them.

In the real world few people want to deal with these sorts of people. When they start talking their smack most normal people will smile politely and nod until they see a chance to get away, then avoid that person from then on. You don't really want to make eye contact with them. So thank you so very much, Skeptic Overlord, for providing the playpen. We don't want to mainstream these people. It may be politically correct, but it has never really worked. You are doing a real service to the rest of humanity.

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:22 PM by antar

Dont know what to say here really, good thread. Just supporting what I think is a lie against the owners. What to say? this same subject comes up every year about this same time...

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:26 PM by smurfy

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by smurfy
I would make one point about 'shills' though, they can be targeted when there is a systematic rubbishing of decent threads, with totally ridiculous replies to up the point that others abandon the thread.

Could also be a troll just having their own twisted version of fun in their mom's basement.
edit on 5-7-2011 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)

Could be, I allowed for that, but not too much

as there is also the subject matter I would take note of.

Of course that is not definitive but it helps me at least, and I honestly don't see much difference between 'trolls' and 'shills' as the end result is disruptive, but you have to be philisophical about these things, and not let it spoil your day.

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:29 PM by BanMePlz

reply to post by Pimander

Well, if you wanna play wordgames... I should call them "extreme" skeptics.

In that case, we would have to separate them into: Extreme, Moderate, and On the fence.

Same with believers.

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:30 PM by LulzCode6

This is dedicated to ATS

YouTube Link

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:35 PM by wirehead

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
This same 3 post 99.9% of their material on the 9/11 forum, going back two years or more, and are relentless with the way they tag-team newcomers or experienced members who are trying to make a new point. If they are really different people I would be surprised.

Are they Shills, COINTELPRO? Maybe, maybe not; but definitely dedicated to goal-keeping in the 9/11 forum

Well, that's not really surprising on a public message board. A person doesn't have to be a disinfo agent to strongly want to represent what they believe is the truth. I'm sure you can find other users that are 9/11 conspiracy believers who post 99.9% of their material in that same subforum.

After I registered and made my very first post, I was subtly accused of being a disinfo agent. I see it as a sort of rite of passage for these boards. At the very least, it comes with the conspiracy theory mindset that we're dealing with here.

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:37 PM by Pimander

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
His take-away: the agencies who would do such a thing are so under-funded, under-staff, over-worked and lacking both appropriate technology and skilled IT people. The good news for us is that they're really not a threat. The bad news for us is that these are also the people tasked with cyber security against outside threats to the nation. Think about that.

This is probably true about some agencies. About the others, I have a feeling we will just have to disagree. Not many people alive have access to enough facts to be certain of that.

Originally posted by schuyler
In the real world few people want to deal with these sorts of people. When they start talking their smack most normal people will smile politely and nod until they see a chance to get away, then avoid that person from then on. You don't really want to make eye contact with them. So thank you so very much, Skeptic Overlord, for providing the playpen. We don't want to mainstream these people. It may be politically correct, but it has never really worked. You are doing a real service to the rest of humanity.

That's what you think is it, big man?

If people don't agree with you they're some kind of social misfit that society is better off without. Or is society better off without the sort of people who have extreme right wing views like that?

I'm surprised you posted that. Your insult to conspiracy theorists is completely out of place on ATS if you ask me.

edit on 5/7/11 by Pimander because: typo

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:38 PM by nunya13

My two cents is that anyone trying to claim ATS is cointelpro or what-have-you has no business being on ATS in the first place. Why, for the love of all that is holy, would ANYONE who believes and find it to be a negative thing, spend their time on this site espousing conspiracies so that a supposed-government-shill website could monitor all your ramblings? It makes absolutely no sense.

In fact, I think that anyone who tries to claim ATS is gov't controlled should first receive a warning, then a suspension, then a complete ban. It is really for their own good if you think about it. If they truly believe ATS is gov't controlled, then they shouldn't be here and the fact that they keep coming back to state their ridiculous thoughts about this shows that they have a problem. Cancelling their account after three attempts to discredit ATS in its entirety would be a form of intervention, because to allow them to continue on here is a form of enabling.

I am being slightly tongue-in-cheek in last few sentences, but, seriously..it's pretty ridiculous to claim such a thing and then go on to other threads and continue posting about conspiracies. Either shut up about it or go away. Pretty simple.

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:42 PM by BanMePlz

reply to post by nunya13

The site owner says ATS is not government controlled.

But i dont see whats stopping "Cointelpro" or whatever, from joining ATS and trying to run it from the outside...

All you would need are a about a dozen people and a few computers to create a troll army..

Then your troll army could spread propaganda etc. Dont tell me you havent seen it done.

Dont tell me you have never had your suspicions...

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:43 PM by LulzCode6

Im laughing soo much of how people can get paranoid at extreme level!!! dudes , this is INTERNET, and we safe and sound behind the screeeens.C'mon Ladies

edit on 5-7-2011 by LulzCode6 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:48 PM by POPtheKlEEN89

you are the son of man

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:49 PM by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by BanMePlz
All you would need are a about a dozen people and a few computers to create a troll army.

We have safeguards in place.

I'd rather not describe the process in too much detail because it's been in development/refinement for about a year, and revealing how it works would provide info on how it could be circumvented. However, we'd get all kinds of alerts if such a thing happened.

I've seen the technical specifications for at least one bid request for "sock puppet" management software (don't ask how). Based on what I've seen, and what I've previously surmised, the systems use standard browser technology on top of a proxy management system.

Since browser fingerprints can be more unique than IP addresses, the same browser fingerprint from multiple IPs would be a huge sign the type of effort you described. So far, the only alerts I've seen are related to returning banned members.

DISCLAIMER FOR THE CONCERNED: Our system is storing encrypted/hashed versions of the text string that defines a "browser fingerprint." We'd never store an unencrypted fingerprint in our database, and only I have access to that.

edit on 5-7-2011 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 06:52 PM by BanMePlz

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Thats cool.

I hope its enough to keep em out though, people like this think they have no boundaries.

It sounds like you know what you're talking about because i dont really understand it.

Anyway, it seems you guys are pretty diligent in trying to keep ATS a true conspiracy site, without lurking agnets and government disinfo-ists.

Cheers.

edit on 5-7-2011 by BanMePlz because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 07:12 PM by 1SawSomeThings

reply to post by wirehead

Well, that's not really surprising on a public message board. A person doesn't have to be a disinfo agent to strongly want to represent what they believe is the truth. I'm sure you can find other users that are 9/11 conspiracy believers who post 99.9% of their material in that same subforum.

Well, considering that the ATS Title Bar is:
AboveTopSecret.com - Conspiracy Theories, UFOs, Paranormal, Political Madness, and other "Alternative Topics"

Seems like the "conspiracy theorists" would be more attracted to this site than those wanting to represent "the official truth theory". After all isn't the term "conspiracy theorist" associated with "nut case" in general society???

Why would those who so strongly believe in the "official conspiracy theory" care about what a bunch of so-called loonies talk about on a self-proclaimed alternative conspiracy theory website? Referring to those I mentioned in my above post, that's all they do here!

edit on 5-7-2011 by 1SawSomeThings because: clarity

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 07:18 PM by AussieAmandaC

I love this site immensely, and I think you’ve done a fantastic job, keep it up (like you needed my endorsement!).

I come here originally to hear the news first, and quite often do.

It does pique the interest somewhat (after being infected with the conspiracy bug), when mods dive in a shut down a thread, but that is also part of the attraction, in the end it’s always your decision, it’s your site.

In my first couple of posts I was hit with a ‘manners’ ‘language’ (something like that)block, I thought some one was a Richard and said so. My fault entirely, as I live like I post, feet first sometimes and back the front.

I’ve still yet to post a Gidday thread :/ but I’ll get there eventually, like I said, back the front.

Thanks for having me

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 07:25 PM by troubledwaters75

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I'm new here, so please forgive my ignorance, but it seems with indigothefish's 1st quoted statement "THEY DO NOT WANT YOU TO TALK ABOUT ATS BEING A CIA or MASONIC INSIDE JOB!", he was not directly accusing ATS of being cointelpro, but merely questioning why the discussion of such possibility does not seem to be allowed here. (And let's be frank -- this is a conspiracy site, so perhaps ALL conspiracies (even the conspiracies within conspiracies) should be entertained with equal vigor. In other words, if TPTB are able to let's say pull off something like global depopulation, for instance, then they could certainly pull off something requiring far fewer resources like a conspiracy website -- so a discussion on this possibility would seem highly relevant).

To this 1st quoted statement came SO's reply "read the opening post. there is no inside job." Then SO quoted indigothefish's next statement "however, they kind of beat around the bush about it", to which SO replied "What isn't clear about the opening post?"

Well, what indigothefish meant by "beating around the bush about it" was not that ATS mods beat around the bush about the accusation being true/false, but that they "beat around the bush" about the allowance of discussing the possibility of this accusation being true/false -- in other words, can we, or can we not, openly discuss this possiblity right here on this site? I'm afraid the opening post isn't particularly clear on whether such discussion is allowed.

Also, the bit about SO's old business acquaintance with "high civilian security clearance" stating that such cointelpro is not within the means/budget of government...This is an interesting anecdote, but doesn't seem to quite make the case. If even just ONE of the major conspiracies discussed here daily is indeed correct (i.e., 9/11, or the secret space program, or depopulation plans), then it would seem well within the means/budget of the offending institution to engage in cointelpro of every feasible fashion to ensure everything runs -- well, is covered up -- smoothly.

reply posted on 5-7-2011 @ 07:33 PM by theHairInTheSoup

sorry but i'm just reading blah blah blah blah blah, blah

what's the point of the OP?

playing down the reality of disinfo on the web ?

or just blah blah, blah blah blah

OP makes a lot of assumptions, but does not give us ONE fact, not one.