It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

10 Inca Ruins to See (That Aren’t Machu Picchu): [Makes me re-think Alien Interventions]

page: 3
64
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:48 AM
link   
Thank OP for posting the beautiful pictures of ancient civilations. They survive because they are stone. Of course we have the technology today to build such structures. Why wouldn't a planet our age have had prior civilisations that could do the same? Most religions and cultures state that there was a time of great floods, which destroyed mankind and reduced civilisations to rubble. And most of these say it happened because "man" had lost their way. A re-birth so to speak.

I find the alien angle disturbing, however, because it denies the fact that great civilisations once stood on this planet, and that some sort of "cleansing" takes place every so often. Adding the alien angle to this post is a detractor for me, as it implies that man never had the capability.

Kind of reminds me of what TPTB are planning, but that's a whole other story!

Thanks again.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Thunda

Therefore we are left with two possiblities: 1) We previously had far greater technology than previously thought, then somehow it was lost, or 2) Some other perhaps ET or ED Civilization had a hand in it. As it is becoming more and more obvious that there are serious holes in our accepted historical and scientific beliefs, it is difficult for anyone to say- fascinating non the less. S&F


How is scenario 2 even a possibility?
Couldn't we just as easily substitute "ET Civilization" with "giants" or "dragons"?



Well, giants? Sure, if you like. Doubt dragons would be interested in building. How are you so sure what is and isnt a possibility?



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 09:00 AM
link   
I've always wondered why we assume these were a primitive, simple people in the first place? Is it to maker ourselves look better? I'm not into the aliens did it theories either. But I do think that the ancients may have been far wiser than us. It seems to me that they had better methods and technologies than we have today, and usually the first thing that disappears when a civilizations falls is the technology.

Edgar Cayce once said, when asked about why we can't find Atlantean technology, "Most of us can drive a car, but how many of us can build one?" I couldn't build a car. Change the oil or a tire maybe, but not build one. Same with computers and TVs.

I appreciate what the ancients did, and instead of assuming we've got better technology, perhaps we should look into recreating theirs.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 09:01 AM
link   
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Here ya go Slayer 69 But i have no doubt you have already seen or even have the Documentary
Well For the New & recent Member's of ATS

The Full Documentary Called Mysterious Origins of MAN Dos Constantly goes Back & Forth Side to Side With In just about Every Part of Pre Columbia ( Mexico South America) & Egypt


From the 1996 Mysterious Origins of MAN Hosted by Charles Heston SEE 1.13 Mark
Charlton Heston on the Origins of Man Part 5




If you watch the The Full Video .. You will see Tiwnainaco may be at lest 17,000 years old

(FULL VIDEO)
UFOTV Presents...: Forbidden Archeology - Secret Discoveries of Early Man - Full Feature



MYSTIC PLACES - TIAHUANACO ( TIWANAKU) & Pumapunku (Puma Punka)
www.world-mysteries.com...

S&F OP

Introduction
Tiahuanacu (also called Tiwanaku) is a mystery because of its age (estimated to be 17,000 years) and the peculiar stone technology. Today there is little doubt that Tiahuanaco was a major sacred ceremonial centre and focal point of a culture that spread across much of the region



edit on 6-7-2011 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)



Slayer 69

Talk About Pre Colombian Solstice Calenders !!!



Tiwanaku Solstice Lunar Calender
www.atlantisbolivia.org...
edit on 6-7-2011 by Wolfenz because: Found the Lunar Solstice Calender of Tiwanaku



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 09:53 AM
link   
I dont know if aliens helped but they could have been done without help. eg stone henge i feel was constructed rather simply the process would have involved alot of digging though.

I think they dig a hole drop the stones and then when the stones are in place dig and expose the amazing structure.
same thing with these its easy to drop a stone in a hole than to hoist above head.
Our modern understanding of what they had as tools and how smart they were is way off. Never understood the wheel as a discovery when the square is unique in nature most cultures must have had trees and well you cut a tree and slice and you have a wheel not perfect but good to do the job.

also what was mentioned about the sea level is spot on just look into the hills& mountains and see for yourself natural lines like tide marks. Im pretty sure some guy who was a janitor in scotland discovered this but I may be wrong.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 09:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Thunda

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Thunda

Therefore we are left with two possiblities: 1) We previously had far greater technology than previously thought, then somehow it was lost, or 2) Some other perhaps ET or ED Civilization had a hand in it. As it is becoming more and more obvious that there are serious holes in our accepted historical and scientific beliefs, it is difficult for anyone to say- fascinating non the less. S&F


How is scenario 2 even a possibility?
Couldn't we just as easily substitute "ET Civilization" with "giants" or "dragons"?



Well, giants? Sure, if you like. Doubt dragons would be interested in building. How are you so sure what is and isnt a possibility?


How are you so sure dragons aren't interested in building?


I personally wouldn't consider involvement-by-aliens a reasonable possibility since such things aren't yet known to exist, and the site contains nothing that cannot be accomplished by humans.

Suggesting that aliens were involved at any ancient ruins site just because we can't explain their engineering is a perfect example of the argument from ignorance fallacy. We don't know how they did it, and it sure is impressive, so it must have been aliens/giants/dragons/gods/bigfoot/pixies. The fallacy works for whatever one can dream up.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by IceFlower
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


The Spanish did not destroy the knowledge in Egypt - yet, the knowledge of how they built the pyramids is now gone. And why would the Spanish destroy the knowledge, why not use it?


History is full of incidents involving the destruction of knowledge, i.e. the Library of Alexandria.

The Spanish had no interest in assimilating Inca culture, knowledge or technology. They were there to conquer, convert, murder and burgle their wealth.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:30 AM
link   
reply to post by anon72
 


They probably feared the savage cannibals of the jungles bellow. Not that they, in time, were any different.

We can see many examples of humans-only style and art desire.

Not to mention the idea of aliens coming to build construction projects really makes no sense, as all it would do is lead to the project's destruction. Simply put, you cannot put savages in control of cities. It collapses every time. This was seen with the Dorians of Greece, the Hyksos of Egypt, and of course, here the Savages of Peru.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:33 AM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Not to justify them, but by the time the Europeans arrived, the height of civilization in the region had already came and gone. Disease took care of the rest. The Spanish slaughtered a lot, but mainly the enemies of the people who allied to them. And I honestly do think they would have saved the information if it existed. But much like the french in Egypt, there simply was nothing left to record. Entire cities devoid of life. Vast extermination. Partly from the Spanish, mainly from their diseases, mainly also from their own internal strife,

Simply put, the arrival of the Spanish was just the nail on the coffin on an already dying culture. The likes of which saw only a few cities still existing, mainly in Mexico.
edit on 6-7-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by Gorman91
Simply put, the arrival of the Spanish was just the nail on the coffin on an already dying culture. The likes of which saw only a few cities still existing, mainly in Mexico.
edit on 6-7-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)


There is speculation that at the time of Spanish arrival that they may have been past their prime, possibly in decline. To say that they were "already dying" may be a bit too strong.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 10:50 AM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Well I mean, entire cities were empty. Like I said, the only part of civilization left was really in Mexico. Peru was a little far off from the Spanish initially.

I don't really know what happened, but where once there were great cities and architectural wonders, when the Spanish arrived, there was tribalism, human sacrifice, and disease. The Spanish, of course, only increasing all three. This indicates a severe collapse of civilization. I honestly would not be surprised to find that, like the Dorians of ancient Greece, the savages of the time of Columbus slaughtered the builders of the city and lived in them, but unable to supply that level of civilization, it was doomed to fail.

I don't honestly know who the builders were... obviously they were human, but I find it hard to believe they were the same people fighting over women and sacrifices when Columbus came along.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:14 AM
link   
Saw a programme once that displayed a rather interesting artefact from ancient Egypt. Unfortunately had to clear my computer for a rather aggressive virus so have lost the source. Perhasps somebody on ats may have seen it.
The artifact was a semi-circle with a 90 degree internal angle that they hypothesised could have been put on the corners of rhe huge blocks to roll them. Simple and ingenious which would have cut the effort and numbers of required workers quite staggeringly. It would also have cut the time requirement down. Should the article I watched be correct who knows what other 'simple solutions' have been lost as we now have recieved wisdom and our minds naturally tend to approach problems with a different mindset.
Should it be true the article I found, and I've had a quick scout round but can't find it so far so one is a little sceptical, then other simple and imaginative solutions may be lost and the logic of the modern mindset is unable to see the woods for the trees.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 11:52 AM
link   
Great replies and discussion...

Some have speculated the reasons behind so many rises and collapse in those cultures/civilizations were do to a combination of natural disaster, Societal/Environmental factors the Stressing the local food supply etc. Their farming techniques coupled with their hunting ranges would eventually not support the population explosion which often happens when food and shelters were plentiful within in an organized society. Internal strife and conflict would lead to their societal collapse. Then the reduced populous would either move on to another area where they would start over or their numbers were so reduced due to so much war, infighting, disease or starvation that the surrounding area would have time to recover enough to again support a human population.

Which also some speculate why human sacrifice was so common, excuse the pun but it killed two birds with one stone. They would feed their blood thirsty "god" while keeping the population down...

WARNING: A BIT GRAPHIC!




Then the process would repeat.

Toltec, Olmec, Maya, Aztec....etc etc etc

As far as the Europeans arrival. They not only brought with them their Guns and Steal but Germs. When they first arrive way back in 1493 they brought with them the "Smallpox" and other diseases which they didn't know [At the Time] they were doing. Remember the diseases like the Black Death decimated the old worlds population. The reason why it was much more destructive to the New world is that the local Indians had no immunity to such diseases. In the Old world the smaller percentage of the population which had their roots in or came from agrarian life. Survived due to the fact that they had already built up an immunity to the disease. [They would get very sick but would survive] Where as again in the New World the Indians had no such defense. Only those who were genetically strong enough survived. [10% or less]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/75bcbce5f5cd.gif[/atsimg]

To give you a possible example back in 1542 Francisco de Orellana sailed down the Amazon to the Atlantic. During his trip he encountered very large populations [Amazon] cities spread all along the River. When later expeditions [80+ or - years later] arrived to verify his stories they found very little evidence of large population centers. For the longest time many considered his stories to be fabrications. [He also mentioned "Giant female" dominated locations] "Amazons" which the river get's it's name from.

However, it wasn't until fairly recently in modern times through the use of Satellites and other technology that some have found evidence of these "Large population centers" some have speculated that he and his party who were the first Europeans down the river unknowingly spread death. Wiping out their populations. The jungle along the Amazon grows at a fantastic rate 80 something years is a long time in the Amazon. One could imagine that within a few short years the Jungle reclaiming the land once used by those endogenous people.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/13677a1c0f7a.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/619d2f2470de.jpg[/atsimg]
Ancient Amazon Cities Found; Were Vast Urban Network

Lines mapped from village earthworks radiate outward from the central power seat in the southernmost of two recently identified clusters of ancient Amazon towns.

Dozens of densely packed, pre-Columbian towns, villages, and hamlets arranged in an organized pattern have been mapped in the Brazilian Amazon, anthropologists announced in late August 2008.



Here is a great video series.
If you haven't seen it and are interested in this topic this is a great start...


edit on 6-7-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 12:41 PM
link   
reply to post by SLAYER69
 




Then the process would repeat. Toltec, Olmec, Maya, Aztec....etc etc etc

(AND great rest of your posting-Good Work)

Yes, I concur with this. I am working on something to demostrate the history etc. I don't know though... pretty noob at this area. But excited to learn about it.

The Dam ROCK altering/manipulation/construction started somethime, somewhere. ATS Group Investigation/Analsys time?

Example. We'll take all the info we can mass and timeline it. From rises in power to defeats, Construction of temples and/or cities. Invasions. Throw it all into one big ATS Think Tank Hopper and see what comes out.

edit on 7/6/2011 by anon72 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 02:13 PM
link   
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


check this out



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:49 PM
link   
reply to www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">post by Thunda
 
If you can accept that humans created the landscapes of Europe, is it too much to speculate that humans could also be capable of the structures in S America?




Here however, we are expected to believe that a civilization that had no written language and didnt even have the wheel, transported thousands of tons of rock into some of the most inhospitable places on earth (as far as altitude and vegitation is concerned), then constructed these elaborate structures with joints you cannot fit a cigarette paper into.


They were often in the 'most inhospitable' places and quarried the rock from nearby. The often-repeated claim that a knife or razor blade couldn't pass between the stones is misleading. If you look at images of these locations it's clear that hands and arms can be passed between many of them. In examples where the joints are particularly close, there's evidence that they used mortar or back-fill. Over the centuries, erosion has worn away the mortar.

If you put one brick on top of another, there's no space to fit a 'cigarette paper.' Does that suggest extraordinary tech or alien intervention? Nope.




I just cannot see how this was possible given the tools and technology that were supposedly available to the people credited with building these objects, and am yet to hear a convincing explanation of such.


Fair enough, yet if you read studies by people who do this for a living you might be persuaded by their explanations.




Therefore we are left with two possibilities: 1) We previously had far greater technology than previously thought, then somehow it was lost, or 2) Some other perhaps ET or ED Civilization had a hand in it. As it is becoming more and more obvious that there are serious holes in our accepted historical and scientific beliefs, it is difficult for anyone to say


Life rarely leads to just two possibilities; there's usually several of varying probability. You've left out the probability that humans created these structures in the same way you accept that they could have built so many others. A 1000 mile canal shifted as much rock and earth as any of the pyramids and doesn't attract theories of ET intervention.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 07:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Kandinsky
 




A 1000 mile canal shifted as much rock and earth as any of the pyramids and doesn't attract theories of ET intervention.


That does it. You ruined it for me. I am going back to the Dark SIde.... to the Alien Tech/Help side. Muhahaha.

I gotta tell ya folks. Some really great post and info. I didn't expect the thread to take off such as it did. I am glad you liked.it and participated.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 03:27 AM
link   
Slayer:

The Wife and I watched your posted videos for this thread.

I have to tell you. Very impressive ATS Media stuff> Did you make the videos?

You convinced us that we need to go to Peru and check things out. Seriously.

I couldn't believe it when the wife Wasn't Talking.... while we watched them.

That in itself was fascinating....


Anyway, one thing for sure, the vidoes make you realize how much one Doesn't Know About.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 04:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Thunda

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Thunda

Therefore we are left with two possiblities: 1) We previously had far greater technology than previously thought, then somehow it was lost, or 2) Some other perhaps ET or ED Civilization had a hand in it. As it is becoming more and more obvious that there are serious holes in our accepted historical and scientific beliefs, it is difficult for anyone to say- fascinating non the less. S&F


How is scenario 2 even a possibility?
Couldn't we just as easily substitute "ET Civilization" with "giants" or "dragons"?



Well, giants? Sure, if you like. Doubt dragons would be interested in building. How are you so sure what is and isnt a possibility?


How are you so sure dragons aren't interested in building?


I personally wouldn't consider involvement-by-aliens a reasonable possibility since such things aren't yet known to exist, and the site contains nothing that cannot be accomplished by humans.

Suggesting that aliens were involved at any ancient ruins site just because we can't explain their engineering is a perfect example of the argument from ignorance fallacy. We don't know how they did it, and it sure is impressive, so it must have been aliens/giants/dragons/gods/bigfoot/pixies. The fallacy works for whatever one can dream up.


However these artifacts were built, it took extremely advanced technology- so advanced that we have no clue in our supposed advanced 21st century society how it was accomplished. Saying "such things aren't yet known to exist" is the same as me saying "the technology to build this isnt yet known to exist", and yet, there they are- existing.

Also, I disagree with "the site contains nothing that cannot be accomplished by humans." So how did they do it then? Sure, with our current tech, given a tremendously long period of time, we might be able to accomplish some of it, but the machining of basalt and granite to the tolerences seen could not be accomplished with the tools the civilization supposedly had- I have seen modern stone masons amazed by the accuracy and scale of these buildings, stating that even with their modern methods they would struggle to manufacture a small piece of these structures. They (the civilization that supposedly built them) arent even supposed to have had written language- so they managed to build without a single drawing/measurement, artifacts we would have major trouble with today? Any explanation requires a suspension of current 'traditional' beliefs- no "ignorance fallacy" involved. And I dont believe your fallacy does work for anything you can dream up, but I think we are just going to have to disagree on that one.

Unless you know something we all dont, Im keeping a visiting ET or ED civilization on the list......

edit on 7-7-2011 by Thunda because: grammar



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 05:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">post by Thunda
 
If you can accept that humans created the landscapes of Europe, is it too much to speculate that humans could also be capable of the structures in S America?




Here however, we are expected to believe that a civilization that had no written language and didnt even have the wheel, transported thousands of tons of rock into some of the most inhospitable places on earth (as far as altitude and vegitation is concerned), then constructed these elaborate structures with joints you cannot fit a cigarette paper into.


They were often in the 'most inhospitable' places and quarried the rock from nearby. The often-repeated claim that a knife or razor blade couldn't pass between the stones is misleading. If you look at images of these locations it's clear that hands and arms can be passed between many of them. In examples where the joints are particularly close, there's evidence that they used mortar or back-fill. Over the centuries, erosion has worn away the mortar.

If you put one brick on top of another, there's no space to fit a 'cigarette paper.' Does that suggest extraordinary tech or alien intervention? Nope.




I just cannot see how this was possible given the tools and technology that were supposedly available to the people credited with building these objects, and am yet to hear a convincing explanation of such.


Fair enough, yet if you read studies by people who do this for a living you might be persuaded by their explanations.




Therefore we are left with two possibilities: 1) We previously had far greater technology than previously thought, then somehow it was lost, or 2) Some other perhaps ET or ED Civilization had a hand in it. As it is becoming more and more obvious that there are serious holes in our accepted historical and scientific beliefs, it is difficult for anyone to say


Life rarely leads to just two possibilities; there's usually several of varying probability. You've left out the probability that humans created these structures in the same way you accept that they could have built so many others. A 1000 mile canal shifted as much rock and earth as any of the pyramids and doesn't attract theories of ET intervention.


We are not talking about your average European drystone wall here, or placing one brick on top of another as you suggest- we are talking about blocks weighing hundreds of tons being worked in an atmoshere so thin that walking takes your breath away. Sure, the canal you mentioned moved a mind boggling amount of rock, and was a huge engineering project, but not in a way that we cannot understand. Also, the larger European structures attributed to civilizations such as the Greeks and the Romans A) Left obvious evidence of how they were built and B) Were built by people with more sophisticated tech than the people who alegedly built these S American (and Egyptian) artifacts.

I agree, I shouldnt have said just 2 possibilities- just the 2 I feel most likely. And I have read studies by 'people who do this for a living', and base my suggestions on such. I am happy to be proved wrong, but (as already stated) have yet to hear a convincing explanation.

I find it interesting that so many people dismiss this as there is somehow a mundane explanation, and yet put none forward. Its like these traditional Egyptian archaeologists who are totally convinced of how the pyramids were constructed, then attempt small scale demonstrations of the erection of blocks (Im sure we have all seen the documentarys) only to fail horribly, or are confronted by the mathematics of how many blocks would have to be laid in a day to acheive the build in the accepted timescale, or the fact that you cannot even light a lighter inside the great pyramid, never mind a torch, to see in the total darkness- the list goes on. Maybe there is an obvious explanation and these 'people who do this for a living' are keeping it from us?

edit on 7-7-2011 by Thunda because: grammar




top topics



 
64
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join