"Conspiracy Nuts" are not as "nuts" as you think. Actually, they are probably smarter than you a

Originally posted by luxordelphi
I saw that thread too and wondered what the person meant by saying that the alleged drunk ATS'r was not really in their social set. What's that all about? How does that work? Is he/she foreign? Is there a caste system where he/she is?

You don't understand that different people have different social circles and usually, from time to time, find themselves in situations with people they wouldn't necessarily choose to be around?

Exactly, I`d say it that way:
Conspiracy theories are not about being right, it`s about using your brain.

And if somebody denies your theories just because they are "too unbelievable", then he`s automatically wrong - not because your theory is a fact, but because he refuses to use his brain and consider the possibility of this or that.

I ur smirt to...

Actually I am in total agreement with some, probably most, conspiracy theorists being smarter on average than the "normal" fellow in quite a few regards...ya sure...there are the occasional nut jobs and you have to wonder about there overall mental health before you even consider their brain matter...but in general I would say conspiracy theorists stay open minded and continue learning...that puts them miles above most.

Interesting thing about conspiracy theorists...they generally have an uncanny ability to just assume everyone else is stupid...come to find out that is not the case...sure people are stupid in general but a lot of the science we use to back up our claims comes from people that never believed in conspiracies at all...just simply smart fellow looking to improve our little world.

Interesting thread...lots of good stuff in here and more on the way I am sure...S & F'ed this one!

I think there that CTers come in all shapes, sizes, and intellectual faculties.

What seems to connect us all is that we're all a little eccentric.

Some call this crazy. I don't much care.

People have "out there" ideas, but over time many go from blowing their mind, to fine tuning it and dropping things that have proven to be false.

I recall reading about an ~ 7 year cycle that the myelin sheaths go through from growing and pruning, like the hair does a couple times a year. I think maybe some people have mystical, kundalini, or whatever kind of experience and reassess everything. These people tend to be more intellectually and/or creative than average. They may have long cycles between taking in too much for some time, and decompressing along with stabilising.

Overall I'd say some are a little too far off for my liking, some are well balanced, and some have a nice healthy balance of mood swings, out there ideas, and brilliant insights.

If you wish to find a conspirity look no further than your local City Council
Its human nature to lie cheat and steal..and to do as you please with political power .
be careful probeing around these things...you might find yourself arrested at a town hall meeting or followed around by the cops at the councils request !

Originally posted by Mike_A

In most threads you can also see people constantly moving the goal posts just to keep their theory alive; they come up with a theory, you provide a source that proves them wrong, they claim that your source is part of the conspiracy. You can never kill a conspiracy theory like this because anything that proves it to be incorrect just becomes part of the conspiracy.

That doesn’t mean conspiracies don’t exist, of course they do, but I do think that the people who go out of there way looking for them, the conspiracy theorists, have very little interest in the truth nor are they any more aware than non conspiracy theorists.

Totally agree. I have been on this site for several years. I joined when I was a keen believer in all sorts of stuff. I've got books and books on paranormal, unexplained, conspiracies etc. I wanted to know the truth.

However, I am also a keen believer in not getting conned and not believing in anything anybody says on either side of the conspiracy fence WITHOUT hard evidence. It was the hard evidence that has never surfaced over the years. And yet the believers continue to believe by endlessly quoting each others "website blogs" or cherry picked quotes or worst of all pure speculation regurgitated as fact after several re-quotes!. In parallel with this I have read the New Scientist over the same time frame which has had many psychological studies which has been a fascinating eye opener.

Are there conspiracies - YES
Are the majority of conspiracies on ATS nonsense - YES (no evidence).
Have I ever seen anybody state "I was wrong that conspiracy is nonsense" NEVER (surely some conspiracies MUST be false since some contradict each other .....jaw dropper!)

The OP does seem a little agitated and defensive though.

reply to post by BanMePlz


Only some do. Most people here just eat up what their told for the sake that it's not the official story.

The unfortunate thing about being a conspiracy theorist is that you spend your life being mocked and ridiculed, yet when you are proven right everyone forgets that you put your neck on the line in the first place!

Conspiracy theories rely on a certain amount of intelligence to work. However, conspiracy theorists tend to fall prey to all the things that come with the failure to exercise critical thinking. It is THIS flaw, not the exploration of conspiracy theories, that renders them often as undesirable as the unintelligent.

reply to post by BanMePlz


Questioning your surroundings is indeed the hallmark of intelligent thought.

Immediately clamping onto whatever the most fringe, convoluted, and unlikely possibilities are in an attempt to look like a unique snowflake amongst your peers and fill some internal void with the sensation of secret knowledge and personal revelation, and responding to anyone questioning your position in much the same manner as a badger protecting her cubs, makes you a an ignorant smart person.

I've never thought of myself as a "conspiracy nut"... I'm just one of those people that prefers to look at both sides of the coin before confirming that it actually is a coin. I question everything and never take anything at face value.

If that makes me some kind of a going-against-the-grain-rebel-without-a-cause-nutjob, then so be it.



As for the OP's claim to a higher intellect equating to those of us who fall into the above category:

"Hooked on phonics worked for me !"

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Conspiracy theories rely on a certain amount of intelligence to work. However, conspiracy theorists tend to fall prey to all the things that come with the failure to exercise critical thinking. It is THIS flaw, not the exploration of conspiracy theories, that renders them often as undesirable as the unintelligent.

I think you are dealing in generalities. I liked the former poster who referred to being 'conspiracy aware'. Also, I like to think that the antonym of 'conspiracy theorist' is 'coincidence theorist'.

But...just because you question one or more orthodox premises doesn't mean you dismiss them all...at least I don't, and I assume the same for most other CT'ers. A history of sub rosa machinations proves that there are conspiracies at work around us. Further, I would suggest that a lot of apparent conspiracy theories are cleverly designed 'straw men'...chaff, meant to distract us from what's really going on and to make those who question the party line look like nutters. Yikes...yet another conspiracy!

Unless queried, I am pretty quiet about my way of looking at things (well...not here). I have also dropped certain inquiries because they have started to get pretty serious and I don't care to end up on a list (one more conspiracy, I know). Sometimes, the internet grants us some surprising things that could be unhealthy to poke at.

So...bottom line, you can't just use a broad brush and dismiss somebody as a conspiracy theorist because they question orthodoxy. To do so is to embrace ignorance. Just remember the words of the prophet: "Don't step in that, Wilbur..."

Originally posted by Death_Kron
I apologise to the OP, the combination of his mistake in creating a blank thread and his conspicuous username led me to the assumption he/she was nothing more than a troll and therefore wasting my time.

Actually since you are at a computer and no one is holding a gun to your head, I'd have to say you choose to waste your time. Unless you admit other people control your mind. Haha!

Anyways I think the person who wrote the OP actually was correct in the assertions made.

People who ridicule as their method of "debunking" are fools.
Also people who believe everything are fools as well.

Critical thinking and common sense must be paramount when seeking legitimate answers to our questions.

When you learn of all of the tactics and logical fallacies that people use to falsely "debunk" something, you can easily begin to tell which side has their information straight and which side merely pulls anything out of their rear to derail it.

Here is a huge List at Wiki of Logical Fallacies . Learn them all.

And then when you see people attempt to use them to derail a good conspiracy topic, call them out on it. Bring the sledge hammer down on them.

Bring the ship to starboard and rake them with a broadside I say. Sink them.

I think Carl Sagan put it best in his book " The Dragons of Eden ".

He explained that all humans have equal intelligence because our brains are essentially the same.
The only thing stopping that is physical brain damage or chemical imbalances.

Our brains are just like computers, and all of them have the same exact processing power according to their blueprints *DNA* which we are all extremely similar due to the fact we are all the same species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Here is where things go wrong.

When you put false information into a computer, it gives false conclusions.

However with the correct data fed in, it will provide correct conclusions.

This is why some humans appear smarter or stupider than others. It is all about environmental factors and education, and there is no actual difference biologically unless they have some form of brain damage.

So, it's all about the Veracity of the Data put in.

If all we are fed is lies and half-truths, all of our conclusions will come out unsound and incorrect.
However if we are fed truth, our conclusions will begin to resonate with reality far better.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by BanMePlz

 

Questioning your surroundings is indeed the hallmark of intelligent thought.
.

Yes but anyone can do it.

It has to be turned into a habit and repeated. That is the key to making it a useful part of learning.

Anyone can be taught to question things, therefore anyone could be intelligent if they choose to work towards that. It's not hard work, all you have to do is think about things purposely and question them.

reply to post by Whyhi

"Conspiracy Nuts" are not as "nuts" as you think

Yes they are, and they continue to prove it time and time again.

A little like sceptics who get angry about conspiracy theories, while refusing to acknowledge that most of the facts on which they base their logic are also just theories.

Its a blatantly obvious fact to point out that "conspiracy theorists" have a keener awareness of what is going on around them.

Put 20 conspiracy theorists in a room and you'll get 20 stories of what their keen senses have picked up, each probably being more ridiculous than the last. Everything they "pick up", they add their own set of facts to and filter it through their conspiracy goggles until the story about a plane crash turns into shape-shifting aliens flying UFO's from Nibiru shot down the plane for the Illuminati etc.

Put 20 sceptics in a room and you will get 20 people in total agreement with each other and the politically correct world view, while looking down their noses at those that dare to say 'What if?" Boring, self congratulatory, room of braying sheep if you ask me.

Just by the simple fact that they "question" their reality.

Yes, no one else does this, only the giants of critical thought, conspiracy theorists. I'm amazed your keen senses picked this up.

Sceptics don't have time to question their reality they are to busy defending it. I'm not surprised that your response to this thread clearly demonstrates this trait of sceptics.

Sure, they may not always be right

That's one way to put it.

Yep, so I guess we all live on a flat earth and if we sail, we can't fly because manned flight is impossible, too far out on the ocean we will fall off the edge. Don't worry we are bound to land somewhere since the Earth is the centre of the universe. Thankfully we don't have to worry about what might happen if we break the sound barrier because that’s also impossible. PS: If anyone tells you different they are insane, demon possessed, heretics and you should report them to the pope.

but their mentality is constantly evolving

Translation: distorting reality to incorporate other conspiracy theorists no matter how ridiculous.

As opposed to blind acceptance of what we are told by the main stream. Even a sceptic should agree that black or white is not a logical choice when clearly there are shades of grey. You won't though because pseudo-intellectual grandstanding is more important to you then exploration of truth.

discarding false information

Translation: anything that attacks their conspiracy belief

Translation: discarding information based on actual evidence rather then discarding information based on lack of evidence. Main stream theories are just beliefs. The ability to measure something based on a theory does not constitute absolute truth.

absorbing observable truth.

Translation: whatever conspiracy most interests them.

As opposed to the lies for kids your learnt in high school.

Sure, you may laugh, point, and snicker, but that is only because you have been brainwashed by the media into wanting to fit in,

Yep, that's why I'm laughing, I've been brainwashed. There isn't any reasonable objection to conspiracy theories, I should be ashamed for even attempting to respond to such giants of critical thought.

So you acquired your world view through first hand experimentation then? You were never taught anything, you never learnt anything form the net, you have never read a book and you have never watched TV? Perhaps you learnt your contempt for conspiracy theories from talk back radio on your way to your mindless, drone, desk job. Oh wait your here on ATS, why is that?

There is a thread that was recently closed called "When ATS goes too far" and i think that thread is a load of B.S. propaganda aimed at conspiracy finders.

Yep, obviously propaganda, as it's clearly impossible for someone to actually disagree with you. Which division of the CIA do you think paid him to do that?

The same division you work for, Mindless Drone Inc., a subsidiary of Go Back To Sleep America.

The truth is: If you are someone who applies ridicule to those who find conspiracies, you are a fool.

Quite a claim you have there. If someone discovers a legitimate conspiracy, that may be correct, but that just isn't so with like 99.9% of the "conspiracy theories" here, sadly.

Yeah well 83% of cats like cows milk and 96% of sand grains on Fraser Island are above sea level. I could quote various other statistics that I pulled out of thin air but I won't, instead lets assume you statistic is realistic. If 99.9% was an acceptable % of error then two million documents will be lost by the IRS this year, 22000 checks will be deducted from the wrong bank accounts in the next 60 minutes and 12 babies will be given to the wrong parents each day. So yes if you ridicule conspiracy theories then statistically you are a fool.

Yet, if you believe everything you hear, you are a fool.

Makes conspiracy theorists quite foolish then?

Really? I thought you said conspiracy theorists only believe in their own conspiracy theories. Now they believe everything they hear. Try to be consistent please.

Are there conspiracies happening right now?

I was going to respond to this with something along the lines of "evidence please", but I'd rather not increase my urge to punch my monitor in anger at the sheer amount of stupidity most conspiracies rely on.

Where is your psychological assessment or survey or any evidence that anything you are saying about conspiracy theorists is correct? Sounds to me like your believing something you were told, perhaps by that voice inside your head that tells you that to feel worthy you must belittle people anonymously.

I'm sceptical of your scepticism.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
I think Carl Sagan put it best in his book " The Dragons of Eden ".

He explained that all humans have equal intelligence because our brains are essentially the same.

Sagan was unequivocally wrong. He was either simply lying or unaware of research on the nature and physiological structure of intelligence. For years what IQ tests measured could only be detected by the tests themselves. In recent years more advanced methods of examining the brain are beginning to show the physiological differences in the brain that result in more or less intelligence. Our brains are not the same, some work better than others. As much as liberals would like to blame all differences in intelligence on environment it's simply not true. Psychologists currently believe intelligence is at least 85% heritable. I think it's probably higher but even at 85% it means basically that the IQ you have at birth is what you will always have. And some have more intelligence than others and will likely be more successful in life.

In our times "conspiracy" has come to mean anything that does not agree with what the government or media says. That being the case, virtually all truth regarding world events is now defined as conspiracy.
- paraphrased from Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Originally posted by malcr
Are there conspiracies - YES
Are the majority of conspiracies on ATS nonsense - YES (no evidence).
Have I ever seen anybody state "I was wrong that conspiracy is nonsense" NEVER (surely some conspiracies MUST be false since some contradict each other .....jaw dropper!)

Can I just prove you wrong on your third point? I came here believing in Nibiru, intent on discussing it, and after reading both sides of the fence I have come away with the conclusion that Nibiru just isn't there. The evidence has not been presented that it exists, and a few rambling folk on youtube with doomsday videos aren't going to convince me otherwise. And hey, I don't think I've even responded to one thread on that topic after seeing some of the lunacy spouted therein.

For the OP, I do agree that the very fact conspiracy theorists question everything points to a more intelligent mindset, but that does not equate to common sense. I've seen enough since arriving here to be sure of that. It seems like for every plane crash with someone of influence on board there are an equal amount of conspiracies behind it. Sometimes accidents happen, it's as simple as that!

And sometimes people come to ridiculous conclusions, which paints the rest of us as fools, and those are the ones the media pick up on, passing the dunce torch onto the public so they can wave it about and have a laugh at CTs.

I mean, I mentioned in passing to a friend asking for advice regarding 3DTVs about the documented risk of headaches, to which his friend who I do not know (and has no idea that I'm into this sort of thing) verbally accosted me with the evils of being a negative conspiracy theorist, and that I must be some kind of nutter. Whatever, if my advice helps I'll continue giving it. Hell, I don't even consider that a conspiracy, just young technology that needs serious improvement before I'll give it a shot, but there you go.

Conspiracy theorists who cannot accept evidence contrary to their opinions (or debate the matter in an adult fashion, throwing around a word I really hate suggesting debunkers are all on the payroll of the gubbamint) have just as much growing up to do as the die hard, bullheaded skeptics who don't believe anything if it wasn't written in Science monthly. This isn't an attack on skeptics either, as I consider myself one on occasion.

Anyway, I'm rambling. In short, if we were all able to see both sides of the wall, we would all be smarter for it.