15-Year-Old Girl Faces Life in Prison for a Miscarriage?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


so what is the difference between the mother smoking the crack, inhaling it, and the father smoking the crack, and blowing it into her face and her inhaling it?? in both cases, the stuff is being inhaled by the mother, and well, entering her body, and thus the fetus'??
seems to me that if the mother can be brought up on murder charges for inhaling the drug, the father should also be brought up on charges if he is blowing the stuff in her face!!! either way, it is "depraved indifference to human life recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to another person"...or fetus....
we all know smoking aroung a pregnant women isn't the best thing, so well, if we smoke around a pregnant women and she happens to miscarry......

if the crime is using illegal drugs, then yes she is guilty. but if the crime is that she is endangering a fetus, then well, tobacco is also a danger, so dad plopping himself into the chair and lighting up his pipe in the living space they share is also a crime, as well as trying to avoid that painful migrane, or siezure....
or, I know that the some of the drugs that are out there to treat some mental disease are just about a guarentee to produce a deformed baby. so, well, what would you prefer, a psychotic mom, or an abortion?? no charging the mom with murder when her deformed fetus is expelled is not an acceptable option!!!

the opening piece says there's no evidence that she was even taking any drugs while pregnant, and you want to make an example out of this women, who, well, do you have any kids?? because got to tell ya something, if my kids are any indication, responsibility at the age of 15 isn't one thier strongpoints!!

but of course, the man is totally responsibility free, lighting up his pipe in his castle after a hard days work!!!

come on man... your going from one extreme to the other now.. you mentioned you had children, and i really dont mean to sound horrible when i say this.. its purely hypothetical..

if your wife had taken illegal, highly addictive and dangerous drugs during her pregnancy.. the ones i mentioned before.. what would be your stance on this?

now if your wife took an aspirin or ibuprofen for a headache would would be your stance on that?

obviously as you stated, there is a risk in any medication for pregnant mothers but the risk is far higher with the illegal (uk classification) class A drugs. that should be pretty obvious..

you know what im saying, you are a father, just think about it..
i have seen first hand children born with disabilities and defects because their parents were drug addicts. its not fair on the child, they dont even have a chance at a decent life.. to my knowledge no one has ever been prosecuted for this, but if they did start to do that, i wouldnt disapprove. it could ultimately prevent others from doing it and could save lives.

im not talking about the case in the op here, im talking in more a general sense..

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

so what is the difference between the mother smoking the crack, inhaling it, and the father smoking the crack, and blowing it into her face and her inhaling it?? in both cases, the stuff is being inhaled by the mother, and well, entering her body, and thus the fetus'??
seems to me that if the mother can be brought up on murder charges for inhaling the drug, the father should also be brought up on charges if he is blowing the stuff in her face!!! either way, it is "depraved indifference to human life recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to another person"...or fetus....
we all know smoking aroung a pregnant women isn't the best thing, so well, if we smoke around a pregnant women and she happens to miscarry......

if a guy blew crack smoke into the face of a pregnant woman... damn right he should be prosecuted.. that goes without saying

The whole idea that coc aine is extreemly harmful to a fetus is a myth.
rationalrevolution.net...
It is a horrible drug, but lying about it just makes the kids not belive anything we say.

reply to post by Misterlondon


actually, I am a mom.....
the op was 15 years old...
that is one of the reasons I am saying hey, hold on here....

we all know that drinking and driving is wrong, dangerous, and takes lives....
we want to make an example of it......
so well.....
we go out and crucify the young inexperienced kid who just got his license and went to a party and had a few beers, and then wrecked the car, killing his passenger....who cares if it was the alchohol that actuallly caused the murder or the fact that the kid was just inexperienced.
now the mayor, or that top notch lawyer on the other hand, or chief of police , well, he gets drunk, goes out kills someone, well.....he loses his job, gets a slap on his wrist, and carries on!!!

but, we made an example out of that kid, we've ruined his life before it even began!!! all the other kids will see what we've done, and be stupid probably and do the same danged thing, really, but we've got our example!!!

to me, it would make a better statement if we went after the big fishies and made an example out of them once in awhile!!! go find a couple crack addicts in the white house, hassle them!!! leave the poor 15 year old girl alone!!!

What about the liberty and freedom of the millions of children who contract autism because of vaccines that contain mercury? Oh that's right, we just deny there is a connection and sweep that under the rug. So, in the spirit of American denialism, we might as well just deny that this teenager committed a crime and sweep it under the rug. Far be it for us to condemn a person as a criminal when the system is far more criminal than any 15 year could possibly be.

i dont know the full details of the mercury poisoning cases but was it known to be harmful to the babies at the time it was administered? to my knowledge this was only discovered after (but i may be wrong)
we do know class A (uk classification) drugs are harmful to the unborn.

anyway the fact most governments are generally full of corrupt scumbags is not the debate here, most users of ATS already know that...

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by dethduck

 

Irrelevant.

I just pinched myself to make sure I wasn't having a nightmare, what an insane place this rock is becoming.

edit on 5-7-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)

I was thinking the same thing.

I guess it easier to go after drug users than real criminals...

Eh....I always get confused by this whole pro-life pro-choice debate. I can never figure out which political party goes with which side.

Pro-Choice seems more like a Republican/Libertarian type thing. Ya know, because they're always complaining about how Liberals want to expand government, tell us what to do, blah blah blah.

I get the feeling that a lot of the these pro-lifers really don't want to cut down on unwanted pregnancies because then they wouldn't get to turn around and complain about all of the people on welfare.

Originally posted by dawnstar
so what is the difference between the mother smoking the crack, inhaling it, and the father smoking the crack, and blowing it into her face and her inhaling it?? in both cases, the stuff is being inhaled by the mother, and well, entering her body, and thus the fetus'??
seems to me that if the mother can be brought up on murder charges for inhaling the drug, the father should also be brought up on charges if he is blowing the stuff in her face!!! either way, it is "depraved indifference to human life recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death to another person"...or fetus....
we all know smoking aroung a pregnant women isn't the best thing, so well, if we smoke around a pregnant women and she happens to miscarry......

There's a very obvious difference, the woman can remove herself from that enviornment.

reply to post by SevenBeans


so, a women who is a mom to a few kids, doesn't work, has no income, hubby controls the $$ HE EARNS, is expected to pick up the kids and leave the home, because hubby likes to smoke crack??? hubby has absolutely no responsibility to the child she is carrying whatsoever???

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by Misterlondon

 

actually, I am a mom.....
the op was 15 years old...
that is one of the reasons I am saying hey, hold on here....

we all know that drinking and driving is wrong, dangerous, and takes lives....
we want to make an example of it......
so well.....
we go out and crucify the young inexperienced kid who just got his license and went to a party and had a few beers, and then wrecked the car, killing his passenger....who cares if it was the alchohol that actuallly caused the murder or the fact that the kid was just inexperienced.
now the mayor, or that top notch lawyer on the other hand, or chief of police , well, he gets drunk, goes out kills someone, well.....he loses his job, gets a slap on his wrist, and carries on!!!

but, we made an example out of that kid, we've ruined his life before it even began!!! all the other kids will see what we've done, and be stupid probably and do the same danged thing, really, but we've got our example!!!

to me, it would make a better statement if we went after the big fishies and made an example out of them once in awhile!!! go find a couple crack addicts in the white house, hassle them!!! leave the poor 15 year old girl alone!!!

as i said before, im not talking specifically about this 15 (actually 20) year old girl, im talking in a general sense.

in the drink driving case it would be wrong for that to happen... they should be treated equally, if not a harsher sentence for the respectable adult figure... although we know how corrupt the system is and yeah stuff like this does happen and when i do see examples of this i am disgusted and angry.. but this is a completely differnet subject to the one we are talking about..

also because of someones age (again not this girl) doesnt mean they should be to immune to prosecution.. if a 15 year old murdered someone, they should be held accountable for their actions..
we are all taught right from wrong at an early age..
every 15 year old on the planet should know it is wrong to kill people and also taking class A (uk classification) drugs whilst pregnant is harmful to the baby..

reply to post by Misterlondon


we also know that smoking around a pregnant women is wrong!!!
so, if someone smokes around one, and the women ends up miscarrying a week later...does that make the smoking person a murderer??? or is the women the murderer for walking past them on the busy street???

Originally posted by dawnstar
so, a women who is a mom to a few kids, doesn't work, has no income, hubby controls the $$ HE EARNS, is expected to pick up the kids and leave the home, because hubby likes to smoke crack??? hubby has absolutely no responsibility to the child she is carrying whatsoever???

Unless someone detains you in a room full of smoke or something than it's your responsibilty to avoid those situations for the sake of your unborn child.

Yeah if a pregnant woman hangs out in a smoky bar or in a crackhouse lets arrest all the patrons but not her!

DUH!

Your body, your responsibility.

reply to post by SevenBeans

ahh...yes, she can pick up her little ones and herself, and journey to the nearest shelter...
ya know, I've been in a shelter once, it was so cold that by the time we left, most of us had pneumonia!!!

but here's another scenerio for ya....
women's pregnant, has a few kids that she is responsible for, crack smoking hubby is gone more than he's home!! doctor confines her to bed rest....
kid falls and needs help, crack smoking hubby is no where to be found, so she gets up and picks up kid to help him, and well, miscarries,.......who endangered the kids, the wife, the unborn baby???

oh ya, the one that manages to escape scott free, without any resposabiility for anything!!!

Originally posted by dawnstar
ahh...yes, she can pick up her little ones and herself, and journey to the nearest shelter...
ya know, I've been in a shelter once, it was so cold that by the time we left, most of us had pneumonia!!!

If you're pregnant it's your responsibility to avoid enviornments that you know can harm your unborn...

It's that simple.

I find it amusing that some people seem to think woman should be able to sue the crap out of Doctors for honest mistakes that result in harm to their unborn (and that those same woman should be allowed to smoke and get drunk causing all kinds of harm to their unborn and face no legal consequence).

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by Misterlondon

 

we also know that smoking around a pregnant women is wrong!!!
so, if someone smokes around one, and the women ends up miscarrying a week later...does that make the smoking person a murderer??? or is the women the murderer for walking past them on the busy street???

edit on 5-7-2011 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)

are you serious? there is a clear difference in the risk factor there, use a little common sense mate.
also it would be more difficult if not impossible to prove someone smoking caused a woman to miscarry (i doubt this could even occur by walking past someone in the street).. it would be much easier to prove a woman injecting herself everyday with a substance caused a defect or death and a much more likely scenario..

and just to add, it is irresponsible to smoke around pregnant women.. we all know that, but as sevenbeans said, it is also the mothers responsibility to avoid such situations.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by dawnstar
ahh...yes, she can pick up her little ones and herself, and journey to the nearest shelter...
ya know, I've been in a shelter once, it was so cold that by the time we left, most of us had pneumonia!!!

If you're pregnant it's your responsibility to avoid enviornments that you know can harm your unborn...

It's that simple.

the food most of us eat can harm an unborn child!!
taking a plane flight now days can harm an unborn child!!!
walking down a busy street is something that can harm your unborn for crying out loud!!
my work is something that can harm an unborn!!
that is my point!!! shall we prosecute pregnant printers who are working to put food on the family tables because the chemicals they have to work for harm their babies???

reply to post by Misterlondon

read the op, there is no evidence that this girl was using drugs while she was pregnant!!!

Originally posted by Misterlondon
are you serious? there is a clear difference in the risk factor there, use a little common sense mate.
also it would be more difficult if not impossible to prove someone smoking caused a woman to miscarry (if this could even occur through passive smoking).. it would be much easier to prove a woman injecting herself everyday with a substance caused a defect or death and a much more likely scenario..

and just to add, it is irresponsible to smoke around pregnant women

There is no need to prove a direct connection. You should punish people for the irresponsible behavior itself (we still punish drunk driving even if you don't hurt anyone).

Originally posted by dawnstar

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by dawnstar
ahh...yes, she can pick up her little ones and herself, and journey to the nearest shelter...
ya know, I've been in a shelter once, it was so cold that by the time we left, most of us had pneumonia!!!

If you're pregnant it's your responsibility to avoid enviornments that you know can harm your unborn...

It's that simple.

the food most of us eat can harm an unborn child!!
taking a plane flight now days can harm an unborn child!!!
walking down a busy street is something that can harm your unborn for crying out loud!!
my work is something that can harm an unborn!!
that is my point!!! shall we prosecute pregnant printers who are working to put food on the family tables because the chemicals they have to work for harm their babies???

your just being silly now... most of the things you mention are essential to life... taking drugs is not..
plus there is a massive difference in the risk factors involved in all those things and taking drugs..