Abduction Phenomenon. What are the motivations?

reply to post by Picollo30


Something is going on. There are scratch marks on these peoples bodies, and your probably aware our scientists have tested implants and they are not earthly in nature. The aliens are doing it for at least 3 reasons I can think of.

* Tracking an individual, usually since childhood.

* Taking genetic material from the human.

* Experimenting with psycholigical effects of pleasure and pain.

I think most of the people these days who go to abduction groups are jumping on the bandwagon (I can't say there are not sporadic events in Australia). Officially from a trustable researcher American abductions tampered off in 2001, which marks my reseach to when the aliens moved to South America. 50 years of something going on so it's intriguing to me that we are seeing pictures of metallic disks during that time. It's hard for me to think that all the operations put together were the work of Germans, Russians, or some hidden world government.

Abductions are evil in their nature. They are certainly not done for the purpose on testing a new medicine against cancer, right? It is something very sinister, and if you want to understand it well, you have to dig deep into the twisted minds of the beings who are doing it.

Cloning. Hybridization. There is the fact that alien genetic experiments are going wrong (check the famous UFO Hunters episode about Dulce) which proves that they may posses sophisticated technology, but not that sophisticated to create a human body from the ground up. Human bodies are extremely complex. The human body is still enigma to all of us. Alien bodies on the other hand are not so complex according to what we know. They want better bodies and this includes replacing us as a species. This is the general idea and motivation I think.

reply to post by Picollo30


Dear Picollo

I agree with all the posters and their opinions on the abduction case.I must add that from my personal research i have found out that
a)the abductions go very far back in time
b)there are 4 types of cases of "alien abduction"

A
The abductions is not something that started with the UFO frenzy of the 50's.They happened since the ancient times.
In the ancient times they were "abducted" by the gods and the main motive of these abduction seems to be reproduction.Along with that if there were other medical experiments that our ancestors didn't comprehend, that is something that i guess we'll never find out.

B
a)Type 1:Abduction by aliens (usually greys) for medical experiments.This is the most common type and although our alien friends do their best to erase the memory,the memory comes back.
The reason for those experiments are various and most of them they are mentioned in the above posts.This type of abduction starts at an early age(4 or 5 years old) and it usually continues for a very long time.It's like a doctor monitoring his patient for the rest of his/her life.
b)Type 2:Abduction by aliens to send a message or awake the abductee.I know it sounds New Age,but it has happened.This type doesn't include experiments of any kind,just talking and in case of young children showing stuff that they will remember for the rest of their lives.The aliens are usually friendly and they don't make any effort to erase the memory.Sometimes they supress it and they trigger it when the abductee is ready to accept it.This type of contact happens only 2 or 3 times in the person's life.
c)Type 3:Abduction by humans.There are cases that the abductees have seen during their abduction humans in military uniforms.I believe that the military is abducting humans and they conduct experiments or they gather DNA and with hypnotism they create a false memory that incor me this is the most scary of all,because it means that experiments on humans didn't stop with the end of WWII.
d)Type 4:Misconception/misinterpritation of an event.This is no abduction at all,but the victims really believe that they were abducted.This case includes :a false memory created to supress the real event which was more terrifying i.e rape in a very young age,by a family member and a lucid or very vivid dream.

Hope i helped.

Originally posted by avriel
OK here is a possible theory. The alien abduction phenomenon first entered the public psych in 1961 (although there are many ancient tales that appear to describe similar events throught history) and from that point they appear to have become more and more common until a decrease began to occur in reports from around 1997. Dolly the sheep was born in July 1996, the first cloned animal (known to the public anyway) cloned from an adult cell.
I belive the decrease in reported events and the begining of the first succesful clones around the same time could be very significant.

What difference would it make when, "The alien abduction phenomenon first entered the public psych in 1961?"

Aside from the date not having any relevance whatever, the phenomenon has nothing to do with DNA. Sorry to dismiss you but if you read the post just above yours I have already explained that DNA is almost certainly a red herring.

Originally posted by zarch
Cloning. Hybridization. There is the fact that alien genetic experiments are going wrong (check the famous UFO Hunters episode about Dulce) which proves that they may posses sophisticated technology, but not that sophisticated to create a human body from the ground up. Human bodies are extremely complex.

If you want to understand the phenomenon both of you you could read this post. There has been so much nonsense about this topic bandied around it's unbelievable.

Originally posted by Phantom traveller
i have found out that
a)the abductions go very far back in time
b)there are 4 types of cases of "alien abduction"

This is a more sensible approach than rattling on about cloning and DNA. Star for that.

There is certainly more than one type of experience involved and to carefully separate the classes of "abduction" type is a good first step to attacking the problem. Any other approach and we are bound to get confused. It would be a bit like studying steam engines, electric motors and combustion engines then explaining how they work with one explanation.

Originally posted by greyer
reply to post by Picollo30

 

Something is going on. There are scratch marks on these peoples bodies, and your probably aware our scientists have tested implants and they are not earthly in nature. The aliens are doing it for at least 3 reasons I can think of.

* Tracking an individual, usually since childhood.

* Taking genetic material from the human.

* Experimenting with psycholigical effects of pleasure and pain.

I think most of the people these days who go to abduction groups are jumping on the bandwagon (I can't say there are not sporadic events in Australia). Officially from a trustable researcher American abductions tampered off in 2001, which marks my reseach to when the aliens moved to South America. 50 years of something going on so it's intriguing to me that we are seeing pictures of metallic disks during that time. It's hard for me to think that all the operations put together were the work of Germans, Russians, or some hidden world government.

Could you please provide the official test results that conclusively determined that these "implants" were not from Earth?

There is a great deal to the "abduction phenomenon", however I do not personally believe that it's a case where those being abducted are actually "taken" somewhere.

Is anyone aware of a single case where the routinely abducted have submitted themselves for overnight monitoring?

There were several people within this thread that stated that they have been repeatedly abducted by non human beings. Frankly, if I were being abducted against my will repeatedly by an alien being with obviously what are superior and advanced technologies that I could do nothing about, I would be doing what ANY NORMAL HUMAN BEING would do. Seek sanctuary and help from REAL authorities and not some hokey paranormal "researcher" (more like blog writer).

The point is, "something" is happening and I don;t believe anyone really knows for sure. I think that they think, they know for sure, but...

I will ask you all something that I have been wrestling with since discovering as much via research over the last few years. The mind altering substance known as '___' produces VERY similar hallucinations including Grey looking creatures as well as the Praying Mantis variety who are usually "in control". Possibly, these beings are "in" our mind, or the mind is the gateway to them, but either way, they don't seem to interact with us, apart or outside the human consciousness.

No clue.

It all makes ZERO sense

reply to post by Pimander


1961, not relevant ??? Betty and Barney Hill the first widely reported abduction. It is relevant because that is when the public really became aware of the phenomenon. I am afraid the date is very relevant. I agree that there are stories dating back throughout history of Alien abductions, however they really didn't enter the main stream until 1961. up until that date they were attributed to Fairies or gods.

Also I never claimed my theory was my belief I actually stated that it was just an idea that I was throwing out there. Now if you wan't to dismiss all theories other than your own, that's fine. Remember though that the church did exactly the same when those whack jobs started talking about the sun being in the centre of the solar system. Before you can draw any conclusions you must first consider all theories

You state that the abduction phenomenon has nothing to do with DNA, how do you know this ? I am sure that people used to believe that illness was not caused by germs but by bad smells and piosons in the body. Around that time the letting of blood was the only cure for desease. If we are dealing with a more technological advanced species then what is to say that they do not have different and more efficient ways of harvesting DNA?

There is a hard prove of genetic experiments of hybridization gone wrong, which are done in the secret labs. That includes cloning and DNA. This is something they are trying to keep in extreme secrecy and no offense here, but usually people who are so desperate in denying it are either disinfo agents or are just extremely ignorant.

Bill from UFO Hunters stated that their show was canceled just because of the genetic experiments photographs they showed on TV with the cow/human/whatever hybrid was on them. They do not care about some UFO sighting here and there, but when you get closer to what they are actually doing things get different.

youtu.be...

Originally posted by zarch
There is a hard prove of genetic experiments of hybridization gone wrong, which are done in the secret labs. That includes cloning and DNA. This is something they are trying to keep in extreme secrecy and no offense here, but usually people who are so desperate in denying it are either disinfo agents or are just extremely ignorant.

Bill from UFO Hunters stated that their show was canceled just because of the genetic experiments photographs they showed on TV with the cow/human/whatever hybrid was on them. They do not care about some UFO sighting here and there, but when you get closer to what they are actually doing things get different.

youtu.be...

^ True. In the dulce underground base they are doing this, working with other intelligent life mostly the reptilians and the greys. The gov't kidnap kids which were responsible for the 33 thousand missing children each year and send them to these underground bases. The Greys are a dying race and they are trying to figure out how to live. They cannot breed.

Originally posted by HazyChestNutz

^ True. In the dulce underground base they are doing this, working with other intelligent life mostly the reptilians and the greys. The gov't kidnap kids which were responsible for the 33 thousand missing children each year and send them to these underground bases. The Greys are a dying race and they are trying to figure out how to live. They cannot breed.

Indeed, that is the case. However, that "figuring out how to live" scenario always sounded to me fishy. This is what they told the humans working with them (kinda the official story here), and there is probably truth to it.. But those are not the type guys you may trust, right? I suspect there is much more to that. Some people claimed that the aliens are much more aware of how precious our bodies are than we ourselves believe and in the way we admire alien hi-tech technology, they admire the structure and the complexity of the human bodies.

In any way, whether this is exactly the case or not, what they are doing is sinister by any standard. The same evilness we perceive as when we hear about ripping off human organs for sale in China nowadays, or concentration camp experiments in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.

The late Carl Sagan on "abductions"

Could you please comment on the part of the quality of the evidence that is put forward by these so-called "abduction proponents."

Well, it's almost entirely anecdote. Someone says something happened to them, and people can say anything. The fact that someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Doesn't mean they're lying, but it doesn't mean it's true.

To be taken seriously, you need physical evidence that can be examined at leisure by skeptical scientists: a scraping of the whole ship, and the discovery that it contains isotopic ratios that aren't present on Earth, chemical elements from the so-called island of stability, very heavy elements that don't exist on Earth. Or material of absolutely bizarre properties of many sorts—electrical conductivity or ductility. There are many things like that that would instantly give serious credence to an account.

But there's no scrapings, no interior photographs, no filched page from the captain's log book. All there are are stories. There are instances of disturbed soil, but I can disturb soil with a shovel. There are instances of people claiming to flash lights at UFOs and the UFOs flash back. But, pilots of airplanes can also flash back, especially if they think it would be a good joke to play on the UFO enthusiast. So, that does not constitute good evidence.

www.pbs.org...

reply to post by Turiddu

In 1966, Sagan was a member of the Ad Hoc Committee to Review Project Blue Book, the U.S. Air Force's UFO investigation project. The committee concluded Blue Book had been lacking as a scientific study, and recommended a university-based project to give the UFO phenomenon closer scientific scrutiny. The result was the Condon Committee (1966–1968), led by physicist Edward Condon, and in their final report they formally concluded that UFOs, regardless of what any of them actually were, did not behave in a manner consistent with a threat to national security.

I frankly cannot trust Sagan's conclusions on the topic. He seems a nice and wise person, and even if he is sincere enough, sometimes the science kind of thinking misleads people, when you try to deduct from a small part from the whole picture.

Let me give an example, how exactly science explains why you should not kill your child when it irritates you. Because it is bad for your kid, yourself and society? But that does not have anything to do with physics, chemistry or math. So sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone and try to look at the bigger picture. I am a scientist myself dealing with hard to solve problems every day, but I try to differentiate where the border of what science can help me is and when I have to deal with other means. When scientists cross that border in their arguments, things start to sound too religious for my ears

Originally posted by zarch
There is a hard prove of genetic experiments of hybridization gone wrong, which are done in the secret labs. That includes cloning and DNA. This is something they are trying to keep in extreme secrecy and no offense here, but usually people who are so desperate in denying it are either disinfo agents or are just extremely ignorant.

Bill from UFO Hunters stated that their show was canceled just because of the genetic experiments photographs they showed on TV with the cow/human/whatever hybrid was on them. They do not care about some UFO sighting here and there, but when you get closer to what they are actually doing things get different.

youtu.be...

I should know better than to ask as much, but could you please provide substantiation to the effect you actually know what you are talking about here, and are not just repeating what you have read elsewhere?

reply to post by avriel

The date has nothing to do with your theory and is not relevant to what the motive for abductions is (i.e. what the thread is about.)

I have not put forward a theory and have explained already why it is not to do with DNA. Do you have any reason why you think I am wrong? If so post your reasons as they may be important.

I am happy to consider any theory but yours does not fit the facts I'm afraid. If you have a rebuttal to my reasons why I am happy to discuss. I don't mean to sound ruthless but get tired of people ignoring evidence.

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
Could you please provide the official test results that conclusively determined that these "implants" were not from Earth?

See this report: An alysis of Object Taken from Patient John Smith (Report Author: Steve Colbern)
The conclusion to draw is that the "implant" in this case at least comes from a stellar system other than this Solar System. Basically the isotopic ratios found in the object were non-terrestrial. That would be consistent with the object having been constructed in a stellar system other than ours.

One of the six conclusions of the author is:

The extreme differences in the isotopic ratios of the sample elements from the isotopic ratios of elements found on Earth provide strong confirmation that the material in the sample is of extraterrestrial origin.

Here is an open letter supporting the report from a scientist with credentials:

To Whom It May Concern:

I am a Ph.D. experimental nuclear physicist, and I was once with the US Navy’s Naval Security Group. While assigned with the National Security Agency, I taught electronics related to remote intelligence gathering. My clearance is a lifetime National Security Agency Top Secret with Cryptographic Endorsement and Code-Word Access.

In the web page linked to below, I have posted news articles and background information that substantiate my credentials. www.doctorkoontz.com...

Regarding Whitley Streiber’s reports about alien implants and his recent interview of Dr. Roger Leir, and also regarding Whitley’s interview of an American scientist who says he was implanted with some sort of technological device, I find the evidence very compelling.

In particular, I note the reported non-terrestrial isotope ratios of the putative implant,the reported emissions of electromagnetic energy and the apparent microstructure of the possible device. This is physical evidence that has been and can be analyzed.

I also note that the interviewed scientist seems quite clear-headed and sensible. Furthermore, the scientist has demonstrable knowledge about carbon nano-tubes and appears to indeed be the scientist he claims to be.

I see no reason whatsoever to discount what these men are saying. Indeed, quite the opposite is true: My opinion is that this matter should be taken very seriously and, eventually, should be openly addressed by both federal authorities and by the public.

However, I realize that federal authorities are unlikely to openly address this matter, and my opinion is that mainstream news media will not write even a single, unbiased, article on the subject.

Nevertheless, if it is true that extraterrestrial persons are placing implants in the bodies of US citizens and US scientists, then the matter is of a national security nature that could be more serious than the threat from al-Qaeda and North Korea.

It is possible that my comments will be met with mockery and derision in some quarters. But that does not dissuade me in the least. Let the chips fall where they may. Truth is an ally; possible life on what could turn into a slave planet is not.

Sincerely,

Dr. Robert W. Koontz, Ph.D.

SOURCE: www.alienscalpel.com...

On the other hand, see my next post regarding a more terrestrial explanation....

I will only say this:
I wouldn't advice you to trust anyone who claims to KNOW if abductions by aliens did actually happen, because NO ONE CAN PROVE IT.
I'm what you would call a "skeptic believer". Having seen a UFO with my own eyes, I believe many things are possible, but until we have physical evidence there's no point in trying to PROVE anything. At best, we can try guessing...

reply to post by MasterOfSparkz

.... I did say this was complicated.



Perhaps the abduction phenomenon has something to do with government mind control programs too? This author in a report to MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) suggests researchers guard against jumping to such conclusions.

We must consider the possibility that some of the information we are getting from MILAB abductees may be cover stories, induced by the hypno-programming processes of military psychiatrists. There is also the possibility that the military uses rubber alien masks and special effects during a MILAB. MILAB abductee Ms. Kay Wilson reports flashbacks where she remembered holding a rubber mask of an alien head in her hands [16]. Facts such as these lead some mind control researchers to believe that all alien abductees are used in secret mind control and/or genetic experiments staged by a powerful black arm of the United States government [2]. However, I have found some arguments against this over generalization:

1.) If all alien abductions are a cover for secret mind control or genetic experiments like the Lebensborn Project of the Nazis [38], why have abductees only reported military intelligence involvement since the early eighties and not before? We should see the opposite of this, since the mind control technology would be much better in the nineties than it was during the sixties and seventies!

2.) Why are there mind control victims who are implanted and used for secret weapons tests, but have nothing to do with the UFO phenomenon or alien abductions? It seems to me that the "mind control agenda" does not need UFO abductions as a cover story, since nobody believes the claims of ordinary mind control victims in the first place, although they have X-rays where everyone can see anomalous objects in their heads.

3.) If all alien abductions are a cover for mind control experiments, why does the military perform gynecological examinations of female abductees?
Preliminary Findings Of Project MILAB: Evidence For Military Kidnappings Of Alleged UFO Abductees. By Helmut_Lammer, Ph.D.

The author goes on to suggest that possibly some MILABS may be an investigation of the abduction phenomenon by intelligence linked to SDI (Star Wars/Strategic Defence Initiative).

In the early 1980s, a lot of money became available for top secret military projects like the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). I believe this secret task force may be financed by a portion of this money that is set aside for SDI. It is no coincidence that the genesis of SDI and the reports of military intelligence personnel interfering with abductees coincide with one another. It seems to me that they are interested in well investigated abduction cases. They monitor the houses of their victims, kidnap and possibly implant them with military devices shortly after a UFO abduction experience. It appears to me that they are searching for possible alien implants as well. Their gynecological interest in female abductees could be explained if they are searching for alleged alien-hybrid embryos. One thing I'm sure of is, this task force and the people who are behind these kidnappings are using advanced mind control technology which is currently being tested illegally on individuals who have nothing to do with UFO abductions.
Preliminary Findings Of Project MILAB: Evidence For Military Kidnappings Of Alleged UFO Abductees. By Helmut_Lammer, Ph.D.

What do you all think now then?

We haven't even touched on the high strangeness aspects of this yet.

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
I should know better than to ask as much, but could you please provide substantiation to the effect you actually know what you are talking about here, and are not just repeating what you have read elsewhere?

Well, I understand what you mean and we are going to get there, but I would like to start elsewhere.

Knowing what you are talking about is not contradictory to just repeating something read elsewhere. They can be both true at the same time. It is like when you go to school to learn some maths, you read some schoolbooks, your teacher tells you some theorems. At the end you may share what you've learned in a maths forum for example. You know what you are talking about and you are actually repeating what you have read elsewhere. Thus, no contradiction here.

It is usually an issue of trust of the source of information and some personal experience as well. For example you may trust your maths teacher, but you may not trust your biology teacher. The biology teacher on the other hand may think he knows quite well what he is talking about, but he may still not be trusted if his knowledge has omissions at core propositions level.

If we go further, if you think your source of information can be trusted and you want to investigate further, you may start with double checking the information with other sources. If you have some kind of personal, even peripheral experience, you start to form an idea what you have to look for further. Keeping your mind open, and detecting and inspecting every logical contradiction encountered. Then you just have to keep researching the topic and enrich your knowledge.

Anyway, my posting on the topic was not with the purpose of presenting evidence, but instead some of the people here can find the info I present interesting to them and complementary to what they already know. Everyone can double check on his own, do his research, and come up with even more interesting ideas and conclusions.

Cheers.

reply to post by Pimander


Well, mate, you totally confused me by dismissing the hybridization/cloning stuff, and then point to Helmut Lammer's papers.

Here is another paper from him: New Evidence of Military Involvement In Abductions

Some quotes:

The second group seems to be interested in biological and/or genetic research. Some MILAB victims recall that they saw humans in tubes filled with liquid and genetically altered animals in cages during their kidnappings inside military underground facilities. It should be noted that alien abductees ''without'' military contacts remember similar scenarios inside UFOs.

However, alien and MILAB abductees claim that they saw small tubes or incubators inside UFOs but also inside terrestrial underground research facilities. Mostly the experiencer describes that these infants look very ill. Alleged alien abductees and abductees with MILAB experiences think that these infants may be hybrids.