It's Official: Experts says Barrack Obama's Birth Certificate is a Forged Document

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posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Kitilani
 


sure your saying because we dont have the original we cant say the pdf is riddled with flaws.
Your saying our experts are less than credible but you dont have any proof at all


and for the record I called your argument retarded but you can take it personally if you like

and ya you remind me a whole lot of her she was smart focused and very one tracked when it came to this issue
have a look at her account and you might see the resemblance yourself.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Artanis667
"Oh come'on you birthirs! Don't you ever just give up?"



I have a feeling most people would be willing to look past or even eliminate the requirement to be a native born citizen, unfortunately. People just love their Obama...



Thats because he is doing the work of the devil and most of the world is blinded by him and his plan for a New World Order and one world religion of Islam.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by aptness
Still clinging to analyses of the PDF file by alleged and self-proclaimed experts? This is one of the most absurd theories you birthers have come up with, and I’ve been exposed to them all at this point.

The Department of Health of Hawaii vouches for the PDF file. They are the people who create the actual birth certificates. Do you honestly believe they would create or vouch for a digital forgery when they can just create a physical birth certificate?

You birthers are beyond hope.



Are you on crack? Sure they can type up a birth certificate and pretend it's real. They didn't do that, though, because, no matter how hard they try, they CAN'T just create a physical birth certificate that would hold up to forensic document analysis and/or carbon dating. It's far easier for them to pretend a digital image somehow got scanned in incorrectly, than it would be for them to explain how a 1961 birth certificate was printed in the future (on 2011 paper with 2011 ink).

The only way they can ever REALLY put this issue to rest is to release the actual document--NOT a digital image of something they claim to be the document--and allow that original document to be subject to forensic testing. That's the only way--and it will NEVER happen because a 1961 birth certificate for BHO, out of Hawaii, simply DOES NOT EXIST.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Youmakemewonder

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So are you saying that if someone has not written tons of books they are not credible?

So if I said the sky was blue, you would not believe me because obviously I am not a prolific author nor do I have a wall of degrees or certifications, therefore the sky cannot possibly be blue? I must be a hoaxer right?

Come on, use common sense and stop making me pity humanity.


Pretty sure he is just pointing out that adding to one book on photoshop is not the same a world renowned Adobe expert.

Why has this thread gotten this long and not one birther is questioning Mara's credentials? Birthers just believe anyone that agrees with them while they pretend to only care about the truth?
BULLSNIP!
Either you people need to proof she is who she says she is or you all expose your sad little bias.


Well I am not a brither. I find it an exercise in futility honestly.

But, I cannot stand by when someone attempts to use a piece of paper as a crutch for credibility.

I guess time and time again, no matter what side of the birther debate attacks my comments, it's always based upon fallacious points rather than actual reality. Nothing new, it's highly commonplace around this topic. Especially on the anti-birther side, I think they are the most ravenous of all.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by ProphecyPhD

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
This woman co-authored ONE book in 2004 with two other authors on Adobe. No wikipedia page and every other link to her on Google is related to THIS story.



So are you saying that if someone has not written tons of books they are not credible?

So if I said the sky was blue, you would not believe me because obviously I am not a prolific author nor do I have a wall of degrees or certifications, therefore the sky cannot possibly be blue? I must be a hoaxer right?

Come on, use common sense and stop making me pity humanity.


I'm saying she is no world renowned expert. A book on computer software from EIGHT years ago does not an expert make.


I don't believe that anyone is really a expert at anything.

But this is based upon common sense and reality rather than using a piece of paper as a crutch.

That was my point. I was never saying she was an expert, because I don't believe in such a thing.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by ruknus
reply to post by NthOther
 


It really does not matter who the president is. U.S is run by corporate interests and big business, president is just there to give people the illusion that they have some kind of power over whats going on. and its not just U.S. The whole world is governed with a similar fashion...




BINGO THE REAL TRUTH. For al. You people that think obama was elected to this office you are dreaming . He was placed in office by the powers that be and he will be placed back into office in 2012 if our country has not collapsed totally by then or some major war breaks out and he stays in office under that guise. The bottom line is is that he is actively trying to ruin America financially so we have to become part of the NWO to survive.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by muzzleflash
It's negative because of the connotations and ridicule factor. Labeling people for asking a question about a topic and pigeonholing them into that label thereon is illogical and immature.
If birthers are ridiculed it’s because their claims are ridiculous.

Birthers aren’t just “asking a question,” they have made allegations and accusations, and in the real world, they have to prove their claims.

We’re waiting.


No if you ridicule someone to win a debate, it's because you are no capable of debating properly.

Ridicule is just fail all the way, and if you disagree well, you are not worthy of debate. You would just ridicule me because you "think" my comments are "ridiculous" thus justifying your sick behavior.

I have no respect for people who justify illegitimate personal attacks. It's maximum lame.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by UcDat
reply to post by Kitilani
 


sure your saying because we dont have the original we cant say the pdf is riddled with flaws.
Your saying our experts are less than credible but you dont have any proof at all


No, I am specifically asking you to prove they are the experts they claim to be. Your character assassination attempts are cute and all but you need to face reality.

You are claiming Obama is a fraud without any proof at all.
You are claiming these experts are experts without any proof at all.



and for the record I called your argument retarded but you can take it personally if you like

and ya you remind me a whole lot of her she was smart focused and very one tracked when it came to this issue
have a look at her account and you might see the resemblance yourself.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Fortunately my post history is hardly one tracked. First I was a cop hater and now I am an anti-birther. I know you called my argument retarded. That is personal because it is my argument.
Just explain why birther is bad and retarded is ok. You know, since proving your experts are valid or that you have a case is not going to happen any time soon.

I look forward to your next birther thread on the exact same evidence.

You need Obama to prove he is who he says he is but you do not need Mara to prove she is who she says she is. There is no reasoning with that.
edit on 5-7-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by debunky

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by NeillieN
Well in all... this whole thing should never even be in question. There is decent reason for people to question this, its simple... if asked for my birth certificate i go in my files and bam there it is.


I do not see your birth certificate.

Did you forget to include it?


He is not an elected official.

You have no legitimate right to ask for the documentation of someone arbitrarily.

However we do have the right and duty to request documentation from our elected representatives.

I have a feeling you are here to push circular arguments rather than legitimately debate.


You know what I can't understand? If he would just release his long form birth certificate this would all go away. Why doesn't he just do that?


He doesn't want it to go away. Remember Obama is a puppet.

This is how Divide and Conquer works. Divide people on issues like this, and watch them foam at the mouth and start slapping each other in the face.

It's brilliant actually. Look at how divided we are.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by MiloNickels
Sure they can type up a birth certificate and pretend it's real. They didn't do that, though, because, no matter how hard they try, they CAN'T just create a physical birth certificate that would hold up to forensic document analysis and/or carbon dating.
The fact that you even talk about “carbon dating” is hilarious and indicative how little you know about this.

They create physical birth certificates all the time. In fact, they do it every day. Every time you request a birth certificate, the DOH people will either print one out on security paper based on the information they have on file, or photocopy it from the original record, certify it and then give it to you. And that is your birth certificate.

There is no requirement that only the original birth certificate — the one given at birth — is the acceptable certificate. This requirements exists only in Birtherland, not in the United States of America.


The only way they can ever REALLY put this issue to rest is to release the actual document--NOT a digital image of something they claim to be the _/quote]Obama’s 2007 birth certificate is an “actual document.”

And so is the one we’re talking about here. The Director of the Department of Health of Hawaii is on record saying the Department issued two certified copies of the long form certificate to Obama. Those are “actual paper documents.” The Director is on record saying she personally witnessed the process.

Reporters got to see one of these physical documents at the April 27 2011 White House press conference.


and it will NEVER happen because a 1961 birth certificate for BHO, out of Hawaii, simply DOES NOT EXIST.
You’re not offended if I don’t take your word for it over documented evidence and several people publicly, and officially, claiming the contrary, are you?



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Expert after expert say the BC is a forgery. It has been proven that he has multiple Social Security numbers. There is evidence that his Selective service is a fraud and was filed after Obama's legal deadline.
Hawaii refuses a Supeona to see the Original, as does Obama. The courts won't touch anything and congress won't act. We have an illegal in the WH and no one will take action. I guess its up to the people.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by muzzleflash
It's negative because of the connotations and ridicule factor.


Please explain. Who uses it for ridicule? Do you feel embarrassed to be a birther? Is that it? Is that why so many birther posts start out with "I am not a birther but?"


Labeling people for asking a question about a topic and pigeonholing them into that label thereon is illogical and immature.


Who is labeling them for asking a question? I label them for having a set of recognizable traits in common. That is what labels are for. I call my plates plates and my bowls bowls because some are flat and some are round.


You should be ashamed of your tactics, however you have no chance against a true opponent.


Chance of what and how long will it take you to find me a true opponent?


Critical thinkers can easily shed off ridicule centered opinions such as presented.

Using insults as a crutch is very poor form.


What ridicule? What insults? All you said was that you do not like the word because you feel negative about it. That is your problem. I do not care if my floors get upset that I do not call them walls.


I am not a label. I am me. I ask questions about everything.

I typically try to ignore the certificate debates, but it's difficult.

Birther is essentially the N word, it's just name calling intended to be offensive. It's a Pejorative.

It's rude and offensive. And it shows your true colors, that you are a hateful spiteful person who thrives on ridiculing those whom you disagree with.

Hate on brother, enjoy that blackened heart.

Why are the mods allowing the name calling to be so blatant and obvious though? I find it very distasteful and frustrating to deal with such pseudo-intellectualism.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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The biggest problem with Obama's birth certificate is the serial number.

One day someone is going to find some document, service record, visa application, or something that contains the same serial number as the one on Obama's birth certificate, only the document in question will belong to someone else, the someone else who was originally issued the genuine birth certificate from which the serial number was stolen to supply Obama with an historically contextually correct number.

For a long time now it has been abundantly clear that Obama has been concealing the true circumstances of his birth. If it was just a foul up of paperwork, he could explain the problem and would undoubtedly have other ways of proving that he was born in Hawaii. It would have been done already . . . a long time ago.

He has an elegibility problem which is insurmountable. To think otherwise is . . . wishful thinking.

Believe me, I am bummed out about this. I like the guy. He is a huge improvement over the last guy who held the office. I think he is better than his opponent in the last election, John MCain, and, I think, better than the overrated Hillary Clinton.

Having said that, I have to wonder when Americans are going to lay down the law to the criminal overworld that runs their country and insist that the constitution be upheld. To me that is a more important issue than the fate of the first black president in history.

People should remember, he is inelegible on a technicality. He won the office fair and square and even had to outrun the Clintons to do it. I give him his props. He's a hell of a campaigner, but he's not elegible to be President. It's a shame.

The constitutional question, however, is way more important than anything else in this affair. The ball is in your court America. Are you, you and you going to uphold the constitution and demand that the hard copy of his real long form birth certificate be produced to settle the elegibility issue once and for all?
edit on 5-7-2011 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by ontarff
I am not going to qoute all of the "facts" you supposedly know. Obviosly you use the facts to support your argument and I use them to support mine. You have not provided facts to support your argument as well.
edit on 7/5/2011 by ontarff because: typo


It is your argument. You said there was a problem with the number sequence. I have already asked 3 times what you think that issue is and your supporting evidence. Obviously you have NOTHING and you do not even know why you said it.

I cannot debunk NOTHING.
edit on 5-7-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)


OK, I do not want to spend more of my time quoting all of the facts presented in Corsi's book that is also referenced on many other websites and threads on this ATS site. Basically, the Obama BC number should have been in a lower sequence than the twins born after him. I am sure you believe the excuse provided by the State of Hawaii. The hospital name is also questionable. I am not going to go around with you or Aptness on all of these details identified in Corsi's book again. I am already sorry I have wasted more of my life arguing with a closed minded person(s) that do not need empirical evidence (the original hardcopy BC) to support their argument.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
No if you ridicule someone to win a debate, it's because you are no capable of debating properly.
I didn’t ridicule anyone to win a debate, that assumes birthers, with what they have brought to the table so far, even had a chance of ‘winning’ anything. I debate those capable of coherent and comprehensible arguments.


You would just ridicule me because you "think" my comments are "ridiculous"
I am willing to listen to your comments. What is your argument?



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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I've never been too fond of this whole birth-er issue. Just one more tool used by TPTB to keep us fighting amongst ourselves...let me ask you all a few questions: does it really matter where he was born? What would we do if we found out it was a fake? Impeach him and have some other figure-head run the country until we elect the next 'leader' of the free world in 2012???

This is supposed to be the place where you can go to converse with other like-minded responsibly inquisitive citizens of various nationalities who see through the veil of bullcrap drawn in front of us on a daily basis by our media/govts. I think we can all agree that the president (congress, senate, etc.) doesn't really run the country, right? It's the people with the money...always has been that way. Republican, Democrat, it's all an illusion to keep everyone from thinking for themselves.

But I digress. The point is that this isn't an issue we should spend 16 pages arguing and yelling at each other over. We should be discussing subjects like term limits, congressional lobbying reformation, and so on. There are a lot of us on here who are ticked off at the current administration (and the previous ones), as shown by threads like these, and I'm sure we all know dozens of people IRL who feel the same way.

Focus on what we all have in common, not what divides us.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by UcDat
reply to post by Kitilani
 


sure your saying because we dont have the original we cant say the pdf is riddled with flaws.
Your saying our experts are less than credible but you dont have any proof at all


No, I am specifically asking you to prove they are the experts they claim to be. Your character assassination attempts are cute and all but you need to face reality.

You are claiming Obama is a fraud without any proof at all.
You are claiming these experts are experts without any proof at all.



and for the record I called your argument retarded but you can take it personally if you like

and ya you remind me a whole lot of her she was smart focused and very one tracked when it came to this issue
have a look at her account and you might see the resemblance yourself.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Fortunately my post history is hardly one tracked. First I was a cop hater and now I am an anti-birther. I know you called my argument retarded. That is personal because it is my argument.
Just explain why birther is bad and retarded is ok. You know, since proving your experts are valid or that you have a case is not going to happen any time soon.

I look forward to your next birther thread on the exact same evidence.

You need Obama to prove he is who he says he is but you do not need Mara to prove she is who she says she is. There is no reasoning with that.
edit on 5-7-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)


1st Sure we've given you her name qualifications and even her books you can go read for yourself on abode. Again you got nothing but hot air. Character assassination ha you wish just mentioned you reminded me of an old friend because she used to use the same kinds of arguments on this very topic.

2nd I bet but i got to ask you get paid by the word or you just love Obama so much cause you know he's so much better than his cousin Bush.

3rd Sure a president needs to be who he says he is bet you dont even know his real name
here check this out a learn a bit more about the fraud your defending so pathologically.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 5-7-2011 by UcDat because: for niceness



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Seriously? I used to participate in these absurd conversations, but I gave up.. I STILL, in THIS VERY THREAD, see the same people, repeat the SAME lies that were discussed over a YEAR ago. Corsi is selling a book, just like his book about John Kerry and all that swift-boat nonsense. He does not care about the truth, just partisan politics, and selling books to the ignorant, and easily gullible, just like most of the "birther" supporters. This will most definitely be my last time participating in this kind of rabble.. I'm tired.. really tired. And no matter how many facts, or ANYTHING based on reality are shown to the birthers, they will simply repeat the same things.. "Obama's grandma says he was born in Kenya" "The Indonesian school registration" "Obama uses different SS#'s" "He spent millions covering up his background" etc., etc., etc... Every argument brought up has been addressed in the past. Don't believe me? Learn to use google and see for yourself. You don't like the facts? Well, just keep your head in the sand with Corsi and Orly Taitz, waiting for imaginary "charges" that they filed to "stick". And don't forget to buy their books.. and donate to the investigation!!

You wonder why most of the world thinks your average USA citizen is a willfully ignorant, self-important nincompoop?



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by ontarff
Basically, the Obama BC number should have been in a lower sequence than the twins born after him.
Based on what, though?


I am sure you believe the excuse provided by the State of Hawaii.
Hawaii didn’t justify the certificate number. As far as I’m aware, never addressed it. I have given you my theory on the certificate numbers before I believe, that the ordering is done alphabetically.


The hospital name is also questionable.
Why is it questionable? It’s the same hospital name that is on the twins’ birth certificate that you referred to above, presumably as being a legit birth certificate. Which one is it? Can we trust the twins’ birth certificate or not?


sorry I have wasted more of my life arguing with a closed minded person(s) that do not need empirical evidence (the original hardcopy BC) to support their argument.
If only the “original hardcopy BC” qualifies as “empirical evidence” that satisfies you then unless you work at a Department of Health, you have suspicions about everyone’s birth place, including yours.


edit on 5-7-2011 by aptness because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by muzzleflash
It's negative because of the connotations and ridicule factor. Labeling people for asking a question about a topic and pigeonholing them into that label thereon is illogical and immature.
If birthers are ridiculed it’s because their claims are ridiculous.

Birthers aren’t just “asking a question,” they have made allegations and accusations, and in the real world, they have to prove their claims.

We’re waiting.


No if you ridicule someone to win a debate, it's because you are no capable of debating properly.

Ridicule is just fail all the way, and if you disagree well, you are not worthy of debate. You would just ridicule me because you "think" my comments are "ridiculous" thus justifying your sick behavior.

I have no respect for people who justify illegitimate personal attacks. It's maximum lame.
But that's not the case with the birthers. If you provide extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence, then expect to ridiculed. Don't make up excuses about how we're just using ad-homiem attacks, because doing that just really proves you have no actual argument and instead have to win arguments based on what the other side is doing, instead of what you're actually saying. Also, I would think that sick behavior is thinking there was some elaborate conspiracy with Obama that his opponents, his party, the state of Hawaii and the FBI were all in on, just to simply get him elected. It seems too elaborate for something so utterly pointless, unless you subscribe to other crackpot conspiracy theories, then in which case you're in your own little world, and nothing I or anyone else can say will ever change your mind, no matter reasonable it may be.
edit on 5-7-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)





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