Why This Lovely Woman Does NOT Support The Troops - Amazing Video

Originally posted by Golf66

Same with the fact that taking the war to our enemies and disrupting the terrorists staging and training areas and taking away their funds and killing their operatives in foreign soil likely has prevented many attacks that could not and did not make it past the planning stage. It is way better to fight them where they live and work than to wait till they get here don’t you think. IMO I’d rather 1million foreigners die than one American. America is my family, right or wrong she’s all I have and like I would defend my children if they were threatened in my home by taking the battle outside we take it to foreign soil. Not really all that hard to understand.

You make some very good points which I actually tend to agree with. (Some of them!) But I would touch on this. We agree, I think, that it is not allways possible to proove some thing might have happened, or would have happened, or even DID happen in responce to a specific action. We can therefore not be sure that these wars are helping the US citizen in any way, although there are many who would argue that it can only help. On this I am happy to plead ignorance. I have no way of knowing, and my humble opinion carries little weight.

However, the very same logic can be applied to the "enemy soldiers" being killed overseas. It is very highly possible that many - possibly even a majority - of these guys would be ploughing fields, holding farm equipment, not guns, if the western armies were not (In their view) invading their country. I am sure you love the US - I am sure these guys love their own countries as much. And the US is there "Fighting against terrorism". But it is no secret that many Muslims see the presence of western soldiers in Arab nations as an invasion, as an act of war against them. So they pick up their guns to fight. They are not nor ever were terrorist, they just want to defend their home land.

This is, after all, how al Qieda started in the first place! Supported by the CIA, fighting Russia in Afganistan.

See - this is the picture I get: like schools boys in the playground. I hit him because he hit me. NO!!! I hit him because he hit me! It turns into a cycle of retaliation after retaliation and the initial confliction is forgotten. Sounds familiar! Why does the word Israel come to mind? Hmmmmm

Trillians of dolars have been spent on these wars. And we are no safer now than we were before it started. I wonder how a policy of love rather than war would have played out by now?

Originally posted by ShamattBut it is no secret that many Muslims see the presence of western soldiers in Arab nations as an invasion, as an act of war against them. So they pick up their guns to fight. They are not nor ever were terrorist, they just want to defend their home land.

I have a unique perspective on this issue having been an SF Team Leader in charge of a small compound in rural Afghanistan. On one hand I do know that a certain portion of the population views the US presence as an occupation. In my experience I think this proportion is small compared to those who view the US as a stabilizing presence.

The rural people of Afghanistan are many things, uneducated by our standards, very slow to accept change, have a strong view of the subordinate role of women, practice closet homosexuality as a sign of prestige among the well placed adult males, and other characteristics we might consider undesirable. They are for the most part peaceful, non-militant, farmers and (in my area anyway) herders who have made a living albeit a minimal one in one of the most inhospitable regions on the earth.

While there are some who support the old Taliban (which regardless of what you hear) who will be part of any reformed Afghanistan in some incarnation. They mostly do it in a support role by hiding weapons, collecting information on my teams, and providing food and an occasional safe haven for the actual fighters.

Now here is what a layman who has never been there needs to know - about 80-90 percent of the fighters are not Afghanis at all. They are from Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Somalia. Their leaders are not even Afghanis for the most part.

Further, understand that while a minimal portion of the population support and harbor them willingly - most who do so do it out of fear as the rural people fear the fighters more than the US that is for certain. We don't rape women and girl children, conscript boys, take food stuffs and kill those who don't actively assist the US mission. The hard core Taliban and ALQ do most assuredly. I got most of my tips from actual Afghanis who were sick of the terrorists and their thug ways. They want them gone more than they want the US gone.

My team conducted sick call, distributed food, built schools, paid for any damage we did to the tune of absurdity - like 200.00 for a dead goat. I am a dairy farmer in the US now (retired Army) and I can get a pedigree milk goat doe for 200.00. We paid 1-3K for a broken down horse of which I had 30 at my base camp. We paid them to feed and care for them way more than we should. We stimulated the economy, cured disease, vaccinated kids, and generally made life better. The ALQ and Taliban can't say the same I'm afraid.

Originally posted by ShamattTrillians of dolars have been spent on these wars. And we are no safer now than we were before it started. I wonder how a policy of love rather than war would have played out by now?

I can't speak for others but I having seen the actual results of our efforts believe we are safer here and I believe the Afghani people are safer in their own villages and homes as well.

It takes a good balance of the carrot and the stick to accomplish anything IMO. We (at least in SF - tried to walk the delicate balance in between.

I don’t stab innocents to death nor did anyone under my Command and this bimbo has no clue why Soldiers do what they do.

My Soldiers represented the most intelligent and capable in the military and many were all star athletes in school and honor students as well.

Very sought after go getters that strive to be the best at whatever they do - any company would love to employ them. I’d put my Sergeant E5 medic up against any civilian doctor in a contest of emergency trauma management any day. My intelligence Sergeant spoke 4 languages fairly fluently, played the cello and did calculus to relax.

Most were from working middle class America and one was even a Lawyer who gave up his practice to enlist for about 30% of what he made so he could serve after 9/11 and is now a career Soldier - enlisted BTW not an officer and he has a JD. Some were from poor or humble beginnings for sure - the sons of rural poor to include myself; none felt they were limited to the military - all were happy to be there making a difference.

Hardly a group of steely eyed killers we had a weekly Dungeons and Dragons game in the compound FFS; how geeky is that?

By no means was there anyone of us who enjoyed killing and the serial monogamy aside all were stable mentally.

reply to post by Golf66


Wow man your story created a really good perspective of the situation at hand.

Originally posted by Golf66
I have a unique perspective on this issue having been an SF Team Leader in charge of a small compound in rural Afghanistan.

Nothing unique about being another murderer for the corrupt government.

So you helped a few people while murdering thousands of others and contaminating the country with depleted uranium, causing widespread deformities, carried the arms for the military financed by the money that now we don't have, while our economy implodes. And all in the name of killing a bunch of "bad guys" who weren't the real bad guys that took down the towers. Boy that just puts such a warm feeling in my heart, thank you so much for your !@%$ service.

Originally posted by Observer99
Nothing unique about being another murderer for the corrupt government.

So you helped a few people while murdering thousands of others and contaminating the country with depleted uranium, causing widespread deformities, carried the arms for the military financed by the money that now we don't have, while our economy implodes. And all in the name of killing a bunch of "bad guys" who weren't the real bad guys that took down the towers. Boy that just puts such a warm feeling in my heart, thank you so much for your !@%$ service.

Troll much?

OK, first of all, you don't murder in combat, you kill. Big difference.

And what about the insurgents? What about the thousands killed by their carbombs in crowded markets?

Originally posted by jerico65Troll much?

The OP is that of a video not supporting the troops. Me also not supporting the troops IS NOT TROLLING.

Originally posted by jerico65OK, first of all, you don't murder in combat, you kill. Big difference.

We invaded their country and started killing people. I bet you also think Waco and Ruby Ridge weren't murders.

Originally posted by jerico65And what about the insurgents? What about the thousands killed by their carbombs in crowded markets?

Let them kill each other. 9/11 was a false flag attack, it was used as the justification for all of this garbage when in reality it was done by our government. That's why we are the invaders and that's why it's murder. Get a clue.

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by Golf66
I have a unique perspective on this issue having been an SF Team Leader in charge of a small compound in rural Afghanistan.

Nothing unique about being another murderer for the corrupt government.

So you helped a few people while murdering thousands of others and contaminating the country with depleted uranium, causing widespread deformities, carried the arms for the military financed by the money that now we don't have, while our economy implodes. And all in the name of killing a bunch of "bad guys" who weren't the real bad guys that took down the towers. Boy that just puts such a warm feeling in my heart, thank you so much for your !@%$ service.

Ah another Daily Kos reader... wonderful.

It's kind of amusing seeing these postings attacking the military yet not one word is said about personal responsibility for electing those who actually send troops to war.

For the record the US military does not decide, by itself, where it will go and what it will do. That is determined by Congress. Not the President... Congress. (OK Obama has initiated war against 2 sovereign nations without Congressional approval but he is the Messiah after all). The US military does not have the authority to purchase weapons. Congress does. The US military does not have the authority to spend money developing weapons. Congress does.

Then again life is so much easier when you go through it in the haze of ignorance.

Originally posted by Observer99


Let them kill each other. 9/11 was a false flag attack, it was used as the justification for all of this garbage when in reality it was done by our government. That's why we are the invaders and that's why it's murder. Get a clue.

Your problem seems to be that you are mixing up two subjects. I agree with you that the wars are wrong. I agree we should not be there fighting. Try blaming the right people though. Some soldiers will beleive what they are told to, others will come to their own intelligently thought out conclusions. Wether we agree with them or not is irrelivent. They go where they are told and they do what they are trained and paid to do. Would you have them all desert. That would serve you well when there realy IS an attack on American soil.

Originally posted by SFA437

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by Golf66
I have a unique perspective on this issue having been an SF Team Leader in charge of a small compound in rural Afghanistan.

Nothing unique about being another murderer for the corrupt government.

So you helped a few people while murdering thousands of others and contaminating the country with depleted uranium, causing widespread deformities, carried the arms for the military financed by the money that now we don't have, while our economy implodes. And all in the name of killing a bunch of "bad guys" who weren't the real bad guys that took down the towers. Boy that just puts such a warm feeling in my heart, thank you so much for your !@%$ service.

Ah another Daily Kos reader... wonderful.

It's kind of amusing seeing these postings attacking the military yet not one word is said about personal responsibility for electing those who actually send troops to war.

Perhaps you could outline which of the political parties don't have one hand holding their gun to Uncle Sam's back and the other in Big Petro's back pocket? It's a little pointless voting in a bi-dictatorship of which both sides want to wage wars.

For the record the US military does not decide, by itself, where it will go and what it will do. That is determined by Congress.

So if you were ordered to get in a big circle with your fellow soldiers and start having sex with eachother... you would do it? "Just following orders"? Gay sex is more morally wrong than killing people, right?

Then again life is so much easier when you go through it in the haze of ignorance.

I'll take your word for it, solider/cop. There's certainly nothing ignorantly triumphant and egocentric about you .

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
Perhaps you could outline which of the political parties don't have one hand holding their gun to Uncle Sam's back and the other in Big Petro's back pocket? It's a little pointless voting in a bi-dictatorship of which both sides want to wage wars.

Libertarian, Green, America First, Populist, Communist, Independence, Jefferson Republican, Freedom Road Socialist, Labor, Modern Whig... shall I go on?

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
So if you were ordered to get in a big circle with your fellow soldiers and start having sex with eachother... you would do it? "Just following orders"?

No. This does not fit the stated purpose or operational parameters of a military organization.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
Gay sex is more morally wrong than killing people, right?

No.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
I'll take your word for it, solider/cop. There's certainly nothing ignorantly triumphant and egocentric about you

.

As stated by the Wal-Mart shopping anti-corporate crusader

I also noted you failed to address the point of my posting which is that our own elected representatives decide to deploy the military, purchase weapons for the military and spend money developing new weapons for the military but I guess that would cut too close to your own admitted hypocrisy.

Even if this naive and uneducated woman has sweeping negative generalizations of what the average soldier, military cook, medic etc is like. I bet any soldier would still sacrifice themselves to save her for their duty. Regardless of her insensitive, child-like opinions.

Originally posted by Observer99Nothing unique about being another murderer for the corrupt government.

Thanks for the insult and for adding absolutely zero to the discussion which is not so much about the morality or legitimacy of the wars but the motivation or reasons those who chose to serve do so.

Soldiers do not like war BTW, having seen it up close unlike most of the protestors. No sane person likes or enjoys killing. I have come to grips with its necessity and sleep peacefully at night it's taken several years but it's not so easy for most.

The chick in the OP's video claims the poor, stupid, criminally insane and morally corrupt are the only reasons or categories Soldiers can occupy.

My post was not to point out the legitimacy of the war so much as to refute the accusations and slander against the men who fight in it and in explaining some of their backgrounds point out how far off the mark the bimbo in the video really is.

They are smart, mostly from middle class families and certainly not criminally insane.

I do think we do more good than harm in theater - if you want to see what it’s like enlist a go yourself. Until then you are an uninformed arm chair general who thinks he knows what it’s all about. War like anything is something you can't really comment intelligently on until you have seen it and practiced it firsthand.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

Originally posted by SFA437

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by Golf66
I have a unique perspective on this issue having been an SF Team Leader in charge of a small compound in rural Afghanistan.

Nothing unique about being another murderer for the corrupt government.

So you helped a few people while murdering thousands of others and contaminating the country with depleted uranium, causing widespread deformities, carried the arms for the military financed by the money that now we don't have, while our economy implodes. And all in the name of killing a bunch of "bad guys" who weren't the real bad guys that took down the towers. Boy that just puts such a warm feeling in my heart, thank you so much for your !@%$ service.

Ah another Daily Kos reader... wonderful.

It's kind of amusing seeing these postings attacking the military yet not one word is said about personal responsibility for electing those who actually send troops to war.

Perhaps you could outline which of the political parties don't have one hand holding their gun to Uncle Sam's back and the other in Big Petro's back pocket? It's a little pointless voting in a bi-dictatorship of which both sides want to wage wars.

For the record the US military does not decide, by itself, where it will go and what it will do. That is determined by Congress.

So if you were ordered to get in a big circle with your fellow soldiers and start having sex with eachother... you would do it? "Just following orders"? Gay sex is more morally wrong than killing people, right?

Then again life is so much easier when you go through it in the haze of ignorance.

I'll take your word for it, solider/cop. There's certainly nothing ignorantly triumphant and egocentric about you

.

edit on 11-7-2011 by TheOrangeBrood because: (no reason given)

Then get the hell out of this country if you are so willing to criticize but do little else than troll here and add zero to the discussion. We just got an intellectual debate going between two educated sides then Orange Brood had to rear his ugly head again. I really thought you had gotten bored and the mental stresses of wondering why people were calling you a hateful troll had made you flee.

Golf hit it on the head with his recent post about his experiences in Afghanistan. People are generally very friendly, I routinely hugged and shook hands with villagers, they were great people. They trust the US military there more than their own due to infiltration and corruption, but that will change if the ANA company that augmented my rifle company is any indicator; hard working men that loved their country and treated the locals with respect even though they were from opposing tribes from the north.

Again Orange Brood I support your right to have an opinion, but you should educate yourselves. I respect you don't support the war, but you opinions about our so called dictatorship and us whole sale murdering the population of multiple countries are not facts, but opinions and you are not articulate in their presentation. If you want to be taken seriously stop accusing hard working men and women that have been there for the country in the past and will be there in the future as murderers and rapists. What if I told you that your trolling is raping my eyes and murdered my faith in humanity? It has to some degree to be honest, but I know everyone is different and everyone has different needs. Maybe your needs would be better met in an other country.

Originally posted by Observer99
The OP is that of a video not supporting the troops. Me also not supporting the troops IS NOT TROLLING.

No, but your BS post is trolling.

Originally posted by Observer99
We invaded their country and started killing people. I bet you also think Waco and Ruby Ridge weren't murders.

Waco/Ruby Ridge and Iraq are two different things. Apples and oranges.

Originally posted by Observer99 Let them kill each other. 9/11 was a false flag attack, it was used as the justification for all of this garbage when in reality it was done by our government. That's why we are the invaders and that's why it's murder. Get a clue.

If the US wanted to go to war with Iraq or A-stan, I'm quite certain we could have thought up a different way of doing it besides destroying the WTC and killing 3000+ people. Get a clue yourself.

Originally posted by SFA437
It's kind of amusing seeing these postings attacking the military yet not one word is said about personal responsibility for electing those who actually send troops to war.

If it were tasked to me to punish these crimes and determine personal responsibility, it would go far beyond the soldier in the trenches. I could be more specific I would probably get in trouble for what I would say.

Originally posted by SFA437
For the record the US military does not decide, by itself, where it will go and what it will do. That is determined by Congress. Not the President... Congress. (OK Obama has initiated war against 2 sovereign nations without Congressional approval but he is the Messiah after all). The US military does not have the authority to purchase weapons. Congress does. The US military does not have the authority to spend money developing weapons. Congress does.

Yet the soldiers are the ones doing the killing, and each of them had the personal responsibility to decide whether they wanted to actually do it. The information is out there showing why these are criminal wars. Pleading ignorance doesn't cut it. "Just following orders" didn't cut it for the Nazi's, and I'm sure they would have faced death if they had opposed Hitler. I feel bad for the fact that the soldiers may face legal action if they object, but no one drafted them or forced them to sign up. I feel a lot worse for all the murdered people.

Originally posted by SFA437Then again life is so much easier when you go through it in the haze of ignorance.

Nowadays you'd really have to live in a haze of ignorance to support the U.S. military or U.S. government in any way.

Originally posted by Observer99
Nowadays you'd really have to live in a haze of ignorance to support the U.S. military or U.S. government in any way.

Considering that the military would be the ones deserting and fighting TPTB should the Bildebergs and their ilk ever try to remove US sovereignty I'd be supporting the hell out of them.

There are guys like myself and the Major who have posted here and thousands upon thousands more who have the skillsets and knowledge to be a MASSIVE pain in the posterior to those who would truly subjugate us. Not the pretend subjugation of a random cop thumping someone but real subjugation where the government does what the chick in the OP says soldiers do and worse.

There's 1000 internet tough guys who flap their jaws about how tough they are whose sole knowledge on combat and the art of warfare comes from reading Soldier of Fiction and playing airsoft. Then you have the guys who buy an AK or AR, shoot at some paper and proclaim themselves to be high speed, low drag dealers of black death. They aren't going to cut it when the time comes- and it is coming. They'll be the first ones meekly herded off to re-education camps while those who know how to engage in low level conflict and irregular warfare carry the fight to our would-be masters.

So you're free to support the vapid chick whinging and moaning about how bad those who serve their country are- but when things do go sideways and she is getting gang raped by some Bildeberg/UN thug it will be a soldier who steps up and cracks their melon.

Originally posted by SFA437
Considering that the military would be the ones deserting and fighting TPTB should the Bildebergs and their ilk ever try to remove US sovereignty I'd be supporting the hell out of them.

There are guys like myself and the Major who have posted here and thousands upon thousands more who have the skillsets and knowledge to be a MASSIVE pain in the posterior to those who would truly subjugate us. Not the pretend subjugation of a random cop thumping someone but real subjugation where the government does what the chick in the OP says soldiers do and worse.

Yet you and other noble soldiers are killing thousands of Afghanis and Iraqis as a matter of course. Following orders and told it is for the security of the US. You will be told the same thing when the time comes to murder us. Yes, some number of you will undoubtedly refuse or resist and you will be killed by your fellow troops, or at best imprisoned. Most of you will NOT resist, and will proceed to subjugate your own populace, and believe the lies, just like the Nazis did.

"Drop weapons" -- ever heard of that? That's what the military uses when they make a "mistake" and murder an innocent person, toss the AK on the ground and there you go, instant "insurgent!" This was told to us by many military personnel:



Yeah, people in our government and military would never actually murder us Americans!





Not relevant you say? It's the most relevant video you could possibly see. The victims on Ruby Ridge and at Waco, and the heartless Americans that murdered them -- that's in our near future.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Dear ModernAcademia,

Am I the only one who didn't hear a thing that girly was saying other than "look at my cleavage.... loooook at my cleavage"?

*Shakes head* Right, back to reality. I think she is slightly dellued. Soldiers do a job, that is the end of the arguement as far as I am concerned. When they step out of line and don't do the job they are paid and expected to do, then "usually" the military police and authorities deal with that.

A soldier is just another person like you and I, who do as they are told and try to keep their heads down. What they do that we "normal" 9-5'ers don't do is come under fire, see atrocitious things no human should have to see, and deal with the guilt of killing people for the rest of their lives. I personally pull my hat off to the soldiers who do their job and don't step over the "legal" line. How can't you?

What she should probably target is more the administration and government which tells these chaps to go do X, Y and Z. The legality of some of the more modern wars we all know are bordering on the legal fringe. Some could consider Iraq and Afghanistan occupation rather than real sanctioned military action. Are the soldiers to blame? Hell no!

We all know what Afghanistan is about here folks, it isn't about fighting the Taliban and blah blah.. it's opium, pipelines and regional strategic control. If you think otherwise then you really are somewhat blinded to the truth i'm sorry to say.

T

Originally posted by torqpocThe legality of some of the more modern wars we all know are bordering on the legal fringe. Some could consider Iraq and Afghanistan occupation rather than real sanctioned military action. Are the soldiers to blame? Hell no!

Nuremburg Trials "I was only following orders" -- not a valid excuse for their war crimes. Therefore, if it wasn't a valid excuse under the Nazi regime, where disobedient soldiers or deserters may well have faced torture and death, it is certainly not a valid excuse for today's US soldiers.

They're not to blame for starting the "war." They are to blame for choosing to fight it, and for all their actions as soldiers.

Originally posted by torqpoc
Am I the only one who didn't hear a thing that girly was saying other than "look at my cleavage.... loooook at my cleavage"?

What cleavage?
It's not like she had big badonkadonks

In any case yes a soldier is just like you and me
Which means they a choice and took a path that I would not have

That's what seperates us, actions