Breaking: Libertarians Call For Arrest Of TSA Agents

reply to post by 2012king


Hey security is fine and dandy. No one is arguing security. It's USELESS, ANNOYING, ILLEGAL, WASTEFUL non-security that is the issue.

You are going to die. And most likely it's not going to be from a terrorist. In fact the likelihood of you dying because of terrorism is next to ZERO. ZERO Z E R O. SO ask yourself WHY the focus on airports? Because of 9/11?

Maybe you should take a look at the number of people who died from cancer last year. Or how about the number of Tylenol deaths. Use your head. think about it. This security is NOT making you or anyone else safer.

ALERT: terrorists ARE NOT LINING UP to blow up airplanes.

What makes more financial, logistic sense? fingering every 90 year old in a depends or putting a single armed LAW officer on every flight?

Have your security.. but is the TSA the best idea you can come up with? If so then get out of the way and let the adults make the decisions. The federal government clearly has it's head right up it's arse on this one.

Originally posted by 2012king

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by MainLineThis

 

Wusses? hahaha. You are the one apparently SOOOOOO scared of evil terrorists.

If they had an airline that had NO security, let me smoke and carry a gun onto it i would be the first in line.

People like you are so bold in your fear that you don't realize how absolutely spineless you really are. Do you actually believe the useless finger banging going on at these checkpoints is making anyone safer? Seriously?? Is that even up for debate? Get your head out of your arse.

One quick question, would you still travel on this flight if you had a young family with you? I for one wouldnt risk my kids safety for the sake of not having to endure the horriffic search procedure supposedly handed out by the TSA.

I do have a family and the answer is yes. Which flight do you think a terrorist would be attracted to? One where Fathers are armed and vehemently protecting their children or the one where untrained fat slobs are checking old ladies diapers? The point is the TSA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR SAFETY. If they are going to GUARANTEE my safety (ie: be liable for it) then sure.. go ahead. But guess what, you and your (remaining) family will have ZERO recourse when your plane is blown up, or you miss your flight etc. They are not responsible for you. YOU are responsible for you. And the federal government is taking your ability to be responsible for yourself AWAY from you. Do you trust a minimum wage untrained stranger with your kids lives? If so then i say please be vigilant because these people do NOT have the ability to protect your children the way you do. They don't care. If your child is hurt or killed they will just use that to take more of your rights away. You will be a statistic..

Isnt it funny how people have been getting searched when entering various places for hundreds of years, and have never had any problems. It has always been the same. Now however, people are moaning about having to be searched as they feel it is not allowing them their freedom. Do you think the actual amount of freedom you have now has anything to do with the fact that people have been cautious about who they let in to wherever? and what they may or may not be carrying when they enter?
If for example in the UK a few hundred years ago they allowed somebody in to wherever a king may be living, without carrying out a search, and the king was assasinated, would that have affected the way we live today?
Or if back in WW2 we allowed people to travel to the UK or US without being searched, do you think that might have affected how the war turned out in the end? I know these may seem silly examples but the point is, the searches ARE there for a reason and if they were not in place, people would exploit it.
If this makes me a bit of a bitch for doing as the government says then so be it. Its never going to change so you might as well get used to it. There is nothing anybody can do to change it, even if the few people who do want searches stopped all gathered in front of the whitehouse to protest it, it still wouldnt change. Do you really think anybody would want to be in charge of a country where everybody was allowed to do whatever they wanted?
People have freedom as they are now yet they always want that little bit more. Thats just human nature. If you gave every single person the freedom to do whatever they wanted, the country would destroy itself in no time.

As i said before, i dont know enough about the TSA to give a valid opinion on them, however i still think security, in whatever form it may be has a place in our society.
If these TSA guys are useless then thats fair enough but do you think that even a highly trained, highly paid person could do anything different in that role?

Here's how you bring down the TSA and get Congress fined for creating it:


China wanted to fly planes into America....to do so the Chinese planes had to be insured for liability and the People of China plopped down their retirements/funds to insure their planes.

Then it's up to the Chinese Airline to make sure it safely makes it from point A to point B in America. If some wacky terrorist takes over their plane and crashes it....the Chinese are liable and 50 million Chinese who became liable for all those lives would be reaching for the Airline Exec's neck......

The Airlines are supposed to secure their flights.

By having the Federal TSA perform "security checks", that is an illegal Federal Subsidy to a Commercial Operation....of which China could go and complain to a certain International Body and get the United States punished for the violation. BILLIONS in illegal Federal subsidies to Commercial Airlines.......when the US is always harping over China doing illegal National assistance to it's Industries......


THat's the route you take to take down TSA...and get Congress punished. During the proceedings the US Govt. would argue they need to do it for "security".....all China would have to say is it's the Airlines job to make sure each person doesn't have a weapon....the US Govt merely is supposed to make sure the Airline is doing it, and punish the airline if it isn't, maybe even ban that airline from operating a Commercial operation. MANAGING COMMERCE.....

Illegal Federal Subsidy to a Commercial Operation.......TSA.

Originally posted by Apokalypsis
This sounds like a publicity stunt by the libertarian party to garner public support. Doing this gives them the ability to say, "At least we tried. which is more than the other parties have done." It'll make for some good campaign speeches.

Well, I find it interesting that Medea Benjamin of Code Pink is willing to tramp around the Jefferson Memorial and inciting police action, but refuses to do anything with the TSA stuff. It shows me where she's really at in her thinking. Why doesn't she go down to her local airport and incite the TSA people in protest? Her only focus is on "right wing imperialist police state', not left wing liberal fascism.

I have noticed recently in hundreds of posts I’ve read online and from at least a half dozen radio personalities with national shows and millions of listeners, that there is a great deal of confusion about the differences between probable cause, reasonable suspicion, officer certification, federal police, and the authority of the TSA when it comes to groping passengers. I will attempt to rectify this confusion in as few words as possible and hope you will pass this on to everyone you know, so that people understand their rights. It makes no difference whether the TSA agents are certified or armed. They are acting under the authority of the United States federal government...

read the rest here...

weboflies.org...

Originally posted by 2012king
If you gave every single person the freedom to do whatever they wanted, the country would destroy itself in no time.

Who's "you"? If you give yourself the freedom? "You" are the government but "you" are not taking responsibility for yourself... You are literally giving your freedom away out of fear. Fear of the reality of your freedom. You are scared a terrorist might kill you, so you support war and you support strip searches.. neither of which increase your security.

NEWSFLASH: Everyone inherently has the freedom to do whatever they want.. The government is FOUNDED on the premise of individual freedom and liberty.. not collective tyranny. The founders were not stupid. They were philosophers of freedom and liberty and laid out a framework of government based on the natural law of individual liberty and freedom.

reply to post by jetlife


This has been long overdue for America.

Good luck to them.

1. I confess I am stunned by the number of people here who do not understand how serious this situation is.

Under the guise of "security", strangers are empowered to search the diapers of babies and the elderly and to feel up six-year old girls.

Please enlighten me. How is an infant a threat to security? I can't say I've ever been acquainted with an infant terrorist. What do they use, explosive Baby Ruths?

How about the six-year old? Her biggest threat is breaking the heart of some little boy.

2. It appalls me that there are people here who are perfectly okay with treating children and the elderly in this manner. Do you not have one shred of decency in you? Do you not appreciate the importance of human dignity?

3. One of our founders said that when a society trades freedom for security it deserves neither. History is calling to us, but some of us are not heeding that call.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. This has been pointed out by many posters on this thread. The Nazi analogy is apt.

4. Another poster made a tremendously important statement. The government is employed by the people. It serves US; we do not serve it.

As long as we allow our servants to dictate how our country is run we are no better than the colonists before the Revolution. The founders started a war with Britain over oppression far less severe than we suffer today.

cont'd from my mobile --

How many outrageous taxes do we pay? Think about it, then think about the Stamp Act and the Boston Tea Party. The colonists said enough is enough and started a war with the most powerful nation on the planet. And WON.

If enough of us boycott flying, deciding instead to sacrifice those faraway trips, the government will be compelled to act. Corporate pressure is a powerful tool.

How long do you think the airlines will last with all that overhead? Not long.

Pick up a stick and FIGHT. Be a revolutionary, or at least be worthy of the blood that's been shed to secure our freedom.

What's left of it.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by morder1

 

Man you guys just dont understand your rights at all. Checkpoints on public roads are restricted because its done by comissioned law enforcement.

The Mall is private property, which means security can approach you and ask to search you anytime they want without cause. Failure to comply can result in you being removed from the mall (you can refuse the search).

Airports are like malls, they are private entitied under federal oversight. TSA is not law enforcement, so they are not subject to RS / PC / 4th Amendment requirements.

As I said... If you dont want to go through security, you dont have to. Take a bus, drive, grab a horse or use shoe leather express. By all mean jump on the bandwagon.. It seems to be the thing to do when you dont understand a particular topic anyways.

not trying to be mean or anything but you seem the fascist apoligist in almost everything you say at ats

do you get paid for this contraryness, do you work to promote another agenda served by your love of opression and dissolution of citizens rights and protections.

Originally posted by 2012srb
1. I confess I am stunned by the number of people here who do not understand how serious this situation is.

Under the guise of "security", strangers are empowered to search the diapers of babies and the elderly and to feel up six-year old girls.

Please enlighten me. How is an infant a threat to security? I can't say I've ever been acquainted with an infant terrorist. What do they use, explosive Baby Ruths?

How about the six-year old? Her biggest threat is breaking the heart of some little boy.

2. It appalls me that there are people here who are perfectly okay with treating children and the elderly in this manner. Do you not have one shred of decency in you? Do you not appreciate the importance of human dignity?

3. One of our founders said that when a society trades freedom for security it deserves neither. History is calling to us, but some of us are not heeding that call.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. This has been pointed out by many posters on this thread. The Nazi analogy is apt.

4. Another poster made a tremendously important statement. The government is employed by the people. It serves US; we do not serve it.

As long as we allow our servants to dictate how our country is run we are no better than the colonists before the Revolution. The founders started a war with Britain over oppression far less severe than we suffer today.

my take is this , ats is polluted by planted posters whose job it is to sound tough and down to business , the better to attract the support of weak minded conservative thinkers and other foolish souls right of center.

but i see a more sinister side , a constant hammering against citizens right to remove the citizens voice ...
people who support and have been recruited on the internet to shill for the us fascist \israeli axis of evil and
false flag terrorism agenda are part of this inititive and the psyop is advanced on many sites , from hollywood to newspapers tv and the internet too , as is shown by the incredible number of zealots who would use forums and
such to push for total control by govt and indifference and acceptance of a farm animal existance deviod of a voice or human rights
why??????????????/
because if you control the govt... and the govt is no longer contrilled or influenced by the voice of normal, non insane citizens then anything is possible ... this is part of americas cancer

how silly of you all to argue this issue ... if the us federal govt or israel decides to blow up a plain or demolish a building again it will happen , pure and simple ,...... no amount of sifting thru feces in a depends adult diper or feeling up 6 year olds or peeking in shoes by tsa employees will have the slightest bearing on this sad but poorly understood truth.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Apokalypsis
This sounds like a publicity stunt by the libertarian party to garner public support. Doing this gives them the ability to say, "At least we tried. which is more than the other parties have done." It'll make for some good campaign speeches.

Well, I find it interesting that Medea Benjamin of Code Pink is willing to tramp around the Jefferson Memorial and inciting police action, but refuses to do anything with the TSA stuff. It shows me where she's really at in her thinking. Why doesn't she go down to her local airport and incite the TSA people in protest? Her only focus is on "right wing imperialist police state', not left wing liberal fascism.

I'm not sure what to think about this lady. But I think you're right that her ability to make waves could be useful against the TSA depending on her true motives.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Apokalypsis

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Apokalypsis
This sounds like a publicity stunt by the libertarian party to garner public support. Doing this gives them the ability to say, "At least we tried. which is more than the other parties have done." It'll make for some good campaign speeches.

Yeah never mind that it is 100% true, accurate, and needs to be done. At least it will make for some good speeches... Sigh!

I agree. But will anything come of it? And did they believe anything would come of it when they wrote, and sent out the letter? Probably not. But nothing wrong with hoping otherwise.

A movement like this needs everyone on the same page in order to accomplish anything.
Not naysayers on the sidelines criticizing their motives and saying they will never get anything accomplished.
Libertarians fight for LIBERTY for Americans.
You won't find corporations running to back this party.
I don't understand the big surprise this group is defending our personal liberty to walk on a plane un-accosted unless you know nothing about the party.

I think all political maneuvers by an political party need to be met with cynicism until their motives become clear. No matter how great the cause. Until we see the results, and who ultimately benefits, it is no more than playing to their constituency. If it offends you that anyone would take a wait and see attitude on this. Then you are looking to be offended.

I hope they fair better than the Texans!!!!

Originally posted by dilly1
I know many times we see on the news and youtube TSA crossing the line ,but I must admit I have been padded down a handful of times. I have to fly do to work and I have learned to live with the TSA's rules(I know they suck). Once you understand how to travel and avoid being the one to get padded down its not that bad. Its just a suggestion , because TSA is here to stay(unfortunately).

I agree. Unfortunately, there are quite a few folks on here that think EVERYONE gets the enhanced pat down, when the reality is maybe one out of one hundred. I have yet to be picked, but if I was, I would just do the X-ray if it was available. Not every security check point has them at DFW yet.

I don't think many people are aware of what they are asking for...

What many of you are asking for is a societal free for all basically. Are you aware of what this society may look like as a result?

Would you rather the TSA be replaced with private security? If so you will go from being patted down by someone making $35k to someone making $19K. From personnel (TSA) required to pass a background check to possibly someone with no background check. If we went to private security, we wouldn't have these imagined incidents of molestation, we would have ACTUAL instances.

The situation is you either desire to live in this modern, restricted society or you desire to live in a anarchic, primitive society. This is the reason many of our Rights are being twisted or disregarded. Our society has become to sophisticated for our Constitution which was written 300 years ago.

A few thoughts:

Most of the pro-TSA/security crowd uses the argument that people who do not want to be groped and/or naked body scanned are against any type of security at the airport. I don't think this is the case, these complaints didn't start until after 2009, 8 years after the creation of the TSA.

None of the pro-TSA crowd has commented on the statements and reality that, if in fact you find yourself in airport security selected for a "random screening," without probable cause (you didn't set off the metal detector or no weapons/explosives were revealed in the naked body scanner) you then have to submit to the groping, you have no choice, you must consent or you will be fined $10,000 by the TSA. So at this point you have no choice, even if you said to yourself, this isn't worth it, I will take a bus, too late, game over, you are getting groped or you are paying a huge fine.

We have to endure this because of 9/11. Didn't the terrorists use box cutters to take over the planes? Wouldn't box cutters sound the metal detector? We have to endure the possibility of naked body scanners because of the "underwear bomber," but even if he had gone through the naked body scanner it wouldn't have been detected. But now we are supposed to endure them even though the health safety of the scans has not been determined?

Furthermore, what if a terrorist boards a US flight in a foreign country (ie. the underwear bomber), then TSA is circumvented entirely and the argument for or against their effectiveness becomes moot.

Combine all this with the fact that TSA employees are not trained law enforcement, get paid about the same as a guy working at McDonald's, have been found time and time again stealing and behaving inappropriately, and HAVE NEVER ONCE FOILED ANY TYPE OF TERRORIST ATTACK SINCE THEIR INCEPTION. People are getting fed up and the prospect that these agents may start appearing at bus stations, train stations, malls to "screen you" for your own safety because the idea is disturbing to say the least.

I think that it is this combination of things that have added up over the years, and now it's gotten to the point where people have had enough. The straw that broke the camel's back, if you will.

One last point, I have heard it said that traveling is a right, but flying is a privilege, and if you want to avoid being groped you must simply choose not to fly and pick some other mode of transportation. Well, let's pretend for a second that they are not planning to put TSA agents in bus terminals and train stations, and one could avoid the gropings by taking the bus, train, or just driving themselves.

Something no one has brought up. I live in Hawaii. I and the other citizens here have a right to travel to the other 49 states. Guess what, I can't take a bus there. I can't take a train there. I can't take a car there. There isn't even a boat that will bring me to the mainland. If I want to visit my family, I have to fly. I have no choice. So in order to exercise my right to travel to the rest of my country, I might be forced to submit to an unlawful search or have to be radiated in the naked body scanner? And if I decide forget it, I will be fined $10,000? And before you say I chose to live here so now I have to deal with it, I've been living here for several years, before naked body scanners and unlawful enhanced random no probable cause searches.

Oh yeah, and to the guy who said he'd rather have his young daughter or son felt up by a TSA agent than have to worry about her safety on the plane, that is truly sickening. As if having your daughter or son groped by a stranger makes them safer? What kind of effed up logic is that?

reply to post by DZAG Wright
So all those years the airlines were required to provide security before 2001 we were living in a primitive society? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? And yes I would prefer private security as they would be held responsible and liable for indiscretions on their part and could not hide behind the color of law that the TSA is afforded through the Department of Homeland Security ie. Federal Government.