Kerry the war hero?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid


Bush's AWOL scandal: Let's break through the media barrier

By Bernard Weiner
Online Journal Guest Writer

A Researcher Uncovers the Facts

Apologies for the long quote. Most Bush supporters won't even bother reading this fine piece of work. They rather wish to wallow in their world of illusions. The truth is something they can't handle.

Perhaps people would read what you write if you posted something worth reading instead of the same old trash all the time. I think you just might be the Chief of the Department of Redundancy Department, as this trash has been disproved time and time again.

But hey, let�s look at the main two facets of your post...the web site, and the author.

onlinejournal.com - Not really a bastion of truth if you go to the main page, now is it? Another anti-Bush site with sections on Impeach Bush, Bush Body Count, Bush occupation, and links to every Democrat and anti Bush site there is. Yeah, I�d be looking there for news if I wanted the truth�not. Hmmm...Shot in the foot there, eh ECK?

BERNARD WEINER - Prolific writer at bushwatch.com. Writer of many articles condemning Bush to include "The Vietnam Connection", where he erroneously compares Iraq with Viet Nam. Pro-Bush? Far from it. Dang�there goes the other foot.

Now, I think I've mentioned this to you once or twice, ECK, but if you want people to take you seriously, at least use valid reputable sources instead of all the anti-Bush whacko stuff that makes you look foolish.

The truth is a much better option....

Like I said, go there yourself, see what is really going on, then come talk from experience instead of sitting on your duff pontificating about things you have no direct knowledge of.

If i went there myself before the "liberation force" took action i would have been able to walk about Basra city centre without being shot at because i'm white! ( not that i've been, but i'm sure the Irish soldier killed the other day on his patrol would have felt the same ) And what did he die for??? .....What a waste of life....

and i'm not parroting, i'm simply trying to show you that there is a world outside America. Things can work in other countries, different forms of Rule are tollerated by other nations of people. What gives us the right to push our way of life into that of anothers?

This war has only created more problems, and the fact that you believe Bush and Blair and all the people who supported them, that this was some sort of charity gesture, to release a suffering nation is tragic indeed.

But anyway, Lets all hope Kerry gets into power, and works extremely hard at improving foreign relations. The UK however is in more trouble, Labour will still be in power for the next 4 years, be it Blair or Brown who's PM, They'l still be in power and they're not doing the UK any good either.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Wow...nice post. Totally full of rubbish, but nice try anyway. It was almost coherent, but not quite. You can believe what you want, and be as ignorant as you want, or as ignorant as your bull post proves you to be. Nice attempt at an attack on me personally, doesn't faze me one bit. Like I said, go there yourself, see what is really going on, then come talk from experience instead of sitting on your duff pontificating about things you have no direct knowledge of. But you are pretty good at parroting what you have heard in other places�Polly want a cracker???

Bye now....

Sooooo, you take a quote filled with valad points and several points that could be disagreed with and argued and you respond with word salad that is the equivilant of a 4 year old saying "Nuhh Uhhh!"

... Sigh you make me tired...

Sad thing is that before Dhu-Bya I really liked Prime Minister Blair and thought he was an amazing represetitive. Also yes.. the Royal Marines are pretty hard core.

wraith

Those are only the Prime Cuts Where is his form 180?...He learned how to edit from Mickey Moore.

Originally posted by donguillermo
Apollyon says

Kerry has not relesed his records and from eyewitness accounts 2 of his Purple Hearts may have been self inflicted...his Silver Star is also questionable.

Actually, Kerry has released his military records. You can view them at

John Kerry's Official Naval Records

George Bush, on the other hand, has not released his military records. The White House released a sanitized version, which is what Richard Nixon called a modified, limited hangout. Now, no one can gain access to Bush's military records. The Associated Press is suing for their release.

A close examination of what Bush records are available clearly shows that Bush was both AWOL and a deserter. See the following link for details.

HOW BUSH FAILED TO FULFILL HIS DUTY

[edit on 11-8-2004 by Apollyon]

[edit on 11-8-2004 by Apollyon]

Straight from the horse's mouth

These are the men from his unit that served with him on a day to day basis.

Damn Bush for invading Iraq ...and Damn Roosevelt for Invading Germany ....and his lapdog Churchill too!

That was sarcasm...
Hmmm who's worse Bush or the man that admited to personally commiting war crimes before a Congressional commitee?

Originally posted by Snoopdopey

Like I said, go there yourself, see what is really going on, then come talk from experience instead of sitting on your duff pontificating about things you have no direct knowledge of.

If i went there myself before the "liberation force" took action i would have been able to walk about Basra city centre without being shot at because i'm white! ( not that i've been, but i'm sure the Irish soldier killed the other day on his patrol would have felt the same ) And what did he die for??? .....What a waste of life....

and i'm not parroting, i'm simply trying to show you that there is a world outside America. Things can work in other countries, different forms of Rule are tollerated by other nations of people. What gives us the right to push our way of life into that of anothers?

This war has only created more problems, and the fact that you believe Bush and Blair and all the people who supported them, that this was some sort of charity gesture, to release a suffering nation is tragic indeed.

But anyway, Lets all hope Kerry gets into power, and works extremely hard at improving foreign relations. The UK however is in more trouble, Labour will still be in power for the next 4 years, be it Blair or Brown who's PM, They'l still be in power and they're not doing the UK any good either.

[edit on 11-8-2004 by Apollyon]

For that matter how is it possible he even served only four months?

John Kerry's tour was cut short because he received three Purple Hearts. I'm not sure when this was instituted, but it was before I arrived in August '68. This is a valid policy, but only when the Purple Hearts are awarded fairly. Think about it. You're serving in combat and you are wounded in action three times. It is rational to believe that a person who has been wounded three times has done his part and deserves to be sent home, if he so desires. But that doesn't mean chalking up every scratch as a Purple Heart award. Nobody but an officer could ever pull this off.

Let's use my own experience as an example. On my first night in Vietnam at Danang, we experienced a rocket attack. While I was scrambling into the bunker, I received a fairly large, but superficial abrasion to my arm. I thought nothing of it, but by the time I arrived at my permenant unit, K/4/13, a couple of days later, this abrasion had become quite enflamed and swollen, a common occurrance for newbies whose immune systems have not yet adapted to the "bugs" specific to that environment.

I went to the Corpsman and while he was treating me, I joked that since this had occurred duing a rocket attack and required medical attention, that perhaps I deserved a Purple Heart. I was only making an attempt at gallows humor, but among the Marines and Corpmen of this unit it was no laughing matter and rightly so, as I would later learn. It was a joke I never made again. It doesn't take long before you really come to respect the Purple Heart award and its value, at least, for those with a conscience.

A serviceman's tour could be cut short for a number of reasons. Mine was limited to six months because in February '69, I was wounded in action when an incoming mortar round ignited the excess powder increments in my gun pit, burning me over 45% of my body. My time served and my hospital time combined with my convelescence exceeded the time recognized as a full tour. I forget the exact time, but if you served a given percentage of your 13 month tour and were evacuated or trasferred, your time was credited as a full tour. There is no stigma attached to a serviceman whose tour is abbreviated under these circumstances.

This would be the case for John Kerry, if anyone believed that his "wounds" were actually severe enough to have warranted a Purple Heart and if there were no questions as to whether or not they were a direct result of action against the enemy.



[edit on 04/8/11 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady I want to thank you for being one of the only people here to address my question. The awnser you gave made a lot of sense and does seem like a fair policy. The next question I have is, is there any validity to the Idea that Kerry's injuries were not great enough to qualify for a purple heart? What are the guidelines used to determine whether or not an injury is severe enough to merit the award of such a powerful medal. From your last post it would seem that the injury must meet a certain level of severity is that correct? Are there any records showing the severity of the injuries Kerry recieved?

he never missed 1 day of duty due to his "wounds"

Originally posted by Snoopdopey

Things can work in other countries, different forms of Rule are tollerated by other nations of people. What gives us the right to push our way of life into that of anothers?

This war has only created more problems, and the fact that you believe Bush and Blair and all the people who supported them, that this was some sort of charity gesture, to release a suffering nation is tragic indeed.

But anyway, Lets all hope Kerry gets into power, and works extremely hard at improving foreign relations. The UK however is in more trouble, Labour will still be in power for the next 4 years, be it Blair or Brown who's PM, They'l still be in power and they're not doing the UK any good either.

You are right, we should of let Saddam continue to kill hundreds of thousand of his own people. Smart choose. As for Kerry, i haven't heard much other than empty promises about "improving foreign relations". What makes any of you think Kerry will fix all our foreign relations, because his wife can speak many different languages? That will make everyone love America again. Here is some inside info you might not know. Most of the people that hate the US today, have hated America for a long time. I am not sure how long we have been in Israel but i am sure the hatred stems from then. It is not Bush's fault, he got thrown into a mess previous Presidents caused. The Iraq war is justified and we will fing WMD. We haven't even been in that country for 2 years, it will take time.

Originally posted by Apollyon
he never missed 1 day of duty due to his "wounds"

Poor thing, he must of had serious pain. I admire Kerry for serving his country but why does he have to steal metals. Now im not sure if it's true, but if it is he is sad. But what makes me even more sick, is the fact that he came home and turned the American People against these kids who were DRAFTED into the war. Kerry made it sound like the American troops in Vietnam were mass murders and the American People should not be proud of what they did. Kerry should have never released his war records if metals were so shady.

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix

What makes any of you think Kerry will fix all our foreign relations, because his wife can speak many different languages?

Guess what, this can be extremely helpful. Education and finesse can't hurt, really. Social graces are important in diplomacy.

Most of the people that hate the US today, have hated America for a long time.

This is wrong. Take Iraq. People were grateful that Saddam was gone, but now view the US as ruthless occupiers.

I am not sure how long we have been in Israel but i am sure the hatred stems from then. It is not Bush's fault, he got thrown into a mess previous Presidents caused.

Oh, that fine gentlemen has contributed greatly to that mess you mentioned. His recent shmoozing with Sharon is one example.

The Iraq war is justified and we will fing WMD.

Depends on what and how much you smoke. Hahaha.

We haven't even been in that country for 2 years, it will take time.

Are you talking archeology? Indeed, with time, some Shumerian chariots can be unearthed if massive excavation are contracted out to Halliburton.


Iran has developed a 900 mile range missile and is close to having a deliverable nuke. Instead of doing something about it, the administration is fixing a patch of desert. Some leadership there.

Kerry only released selected portions of his record carefull chosen for the effect.

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix

Originally posted by Apollyon
he never missed 1 day of duty due to his "wounds"

Poor thing, he must of had serious pain. I admire Kerry for serving his country but why does he have to steal metals. Now im not sure if it's true, but if it is he is sad. But what makes me even more sick, is the fact that he came home and turned the American People against these kids who were DRAFTED into the war. Kerry made it sound like the American troops in Vietnam were mass murders and the American People should not be proud of what they did. Kerry should have never released his war records if metals were so shady.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by Apollyon]

Originally posted by mwm1331What are the guidelines used to determine whether or not an injury is severe enough to merit the award of such a powerful medal. From your last post it would seem that the injury must meet a certain level of severity is that correct? Are there any records showing the severity of the injuries Kerry recieved?

These are the criteria for the Purple Heart award. The only reports I have seen for the severity of his wounds have been anecdotal. I did see on TV one copy of a medical report that one wound had been treated with a band-aid. His service record, which has been released, would not contain this information. Only his medical record would contain such information. Those who have described his wounds have been those who served with him and who treated those wounds. I believe these individuals because their testimony comports with the the known facts.

The criteria I posted are current, but they are essentially as they were in the Vietnam war. Some changes have occurred over the years, but the significant ones have been recinded.

Kerry the war hero? No.

Did he serve in a combat zone? Yes.

Does a splinter in the finger or a small, insignificant piece of metal in the arse constitute the Purple Hearts given? No.

Ask pretty much any Vietnam Vet that served in Vietnam anyhow, and they will tell you that PH's were given out like candy....Hell, look at Kerry, he can vouch for it with the three he got.

IMHO, I would be ashamed to tell anyone I got those AND for WHAT ifin I was Kerry...bet!

Neither candidate needs to be using their past military records to justify who should be the next President...NEITHER.


seekerof

Originally posted by wraith30


Sooooo, you take a quote filled with valad points and several points that could be disagreed with and argued and you respond with word salad that is the equivilant of a 4 year old saying "Nuhh Uhhh!"

Sorry, there wasn't valid point one in your senseless diatribe, just the same old trite anti Bush lines that are so tired on this board they are being used in hospitals as anesthesia.

Get some new ideas instead of, as I said, Parroting what you hear from others. You are boring...Watching paint dry would make for a more exciting afternoon than reading one of your worn-out posts�.

Did someone get you that cracker yet????

Originally posted by Snoopdopey

and i'm not parroting, i'm simply trying to show you that there is a world outside America. Things can work in other countries, different forms of Rule are tollerated by other nations of people. What gives us the right to push our way of life into that of anothers?

This war has only created more problems, and the fact that you believe Bush and Blair and all the people who supported them, that this was some sort of charity gesture, to release a suffering nation is tragic indeed.

Really? And what experience do you speak from on this? Are you a seasoned world traveler? Tell me where you have been and experienced?

We do not impress our "Rule" anywhere unless threatened. Too many here have forgotten that we have been attacked and are threatened on a daily basis, and all of it started long before the war in Iraq.

We didn't start the fight, but we sure as hell will finish it.




[edit on 12-8-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Ask pretty much any Vietnam Vet that served in Vietnam anyhow, and they will tell you that PH's were given out like candy....Hell, look at Kerry, he can vouch for it with the three he got.

While there are clearly exceptions, this assertion is untrue. There have been times of cheap Purple Hearts, but as a rule, this was not the case in Vietnam. You might be better served by asking those who have been awarded the Purple Heart and asking about the extent of their wounds, the scars and the treatment received.