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Kerry the war hero?

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posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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Thanks Don, I was looking for your post that had those links posted.

Wraith




posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by donguillermo


Actually, Kerry has released his military records. You can view them at

John Kerry's Official Naval Records

George Bush, on the other hand, has not released his military records. The White House released a sanitized version, which is what Richard Nixon called a modified, limited hangout. Now, no one can gain access to Bush's military records. The Associated Press is suing for their release.

A close examination of what Bush records are available clearly shows that Bush was both AWOL and a deserter. See the following link for details.

HOW BUSH FAILED TO FULFILL HIS DUTY



BURN! Excellent post!


There is no debate.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:31 PM
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Funny that the people white house has distanced from the ads against Kerry war records.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan, said that they would not question his records.
"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" are the ones targeting Kerry’s records none of the so-called Swift boat veterans for truth actually served with Kerry.

Now I said will the real witness please stand up.

www.abc.net.au...


DonGuillermo great link.


[edit on 11-8-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" are the ones targeting Kerry’s records none of the so-called Swift boat veterans for truth actually served with Kerry.


Technically, my dad "served with" Kerry (i.e. served in the same time frame, etc.) and was even in Nam. Does that mean he's an eyewitness to any of Kerry's actions? No... It's a word game played out by Swift boat, and at least one of them has already cracked on this....

Excellent links Don, seen them, but good to point them out...

I will admit though, Kerry is the one who made his war record a campaign issue...so he's responsible for the can of worms... The majority of this though, hasn't really reached the voting public at large (trust me, I have a certain group of friends who really represent the public at large, hehe...and I use them as a guage often...great people, but they don't pay as much attention to the world as we here do...)



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Affirmative Reaction,

So is not me the one bringing the subject but others.


And by the way the comment at the end of your post sound like a direct target to me.


[edit on 11-8-2004 by marg6043]

[edit on 11-8-2004 by marg6043]


It was directed at you and the many others that continue to bring the same old clap trap to the boards. It clogs up the lines, and it's old and tired. And it IS you that brought it up...look at your post...did someone ELSE write it for you? It doesn't matter if you start the thread or not....



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Really, what you cannot believe? I cannot still believe Bush is such a coward when he evaded going to war and staying in Texas and lest not forget the unavailable time missing from his time in the National Guard also. Maybe if he has gotten to serve in Vietnam front lines he will have a medal of honor also. Right?.

Nevertheless, occurs papa bush will not allow that to his precious son.

So how hard can it be that somebody else risked his life in the war and got honor for it?

Sometimes we believe only what we want and disbelief what we cannot understand instead


This isn't even a Bush bashing topic and yet by the third reply we have a Bush basher. mar6043, you answered the my next question eith this statment "Sometimes we believe only what we want and disbelief what we cannot understand instead". Same goes when you trash the Presidents war record, do you have facts or is it all hear say? It is ALL Hear say.


Big thumbs down for you, your hatred for Bush is clouding your judgment and Kerry is using your hatred to gain support. We all know Kerry's main campaign platform "John Kerry, he is not G.W. Bush". And thats all he has, he is not Bush.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:54 PM
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Affirmative Reaction,

Since this thread started with other has voice their opinions as me perhaps more strongly than me, but for some reason you single out my post.

Perhaps should I take it as personal?

My opinions on the thread have been back by other members so I am not posting lies. Perhaps you have nothing good to say anyway about the thread of the post and I am the favorite choices to target.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!I feel honor by such attention.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by wraith30

Bush sent out our troops to fight against a faceless enemy with a vague objective. He took a situation where we had the support of the world against a terrorist faction in Afganistan and then made a sharp right turn to go fight a personal vendetta to be like his Daddy again and in the process lost all credibility, while building the perfect breeding ground for terrorists to thrive.

Without a difined objecitve, without the support of other nations, without a way to remove our troops safely. Bush lead our military into a minefield and forgot to give them a map of how to get out of it.

Wraith


More redundant untruths....

Is Osama bin Ladin faceless? Saddam? Abu Mussab al Zarqawi? Faceless enemies? Not even close. The goal was to get Saddam out of power. Done. The goal was to depose the Taliban who supported and protected bin Ladin. The goal was to get bin Ladin. In progress. The goal was to free the Iraqi people and allow them the chance at a freedom they have never before known. In progress.

We have an exit strategy, and it starts with making the Iraqi people responsible for their own safety and security. In progress. The work will not be done over night, and that is the problem with all the nay-sayers. You all expect a country to change over night, to become a democracy in a matter of hours, for people to understand that they have to commit themselves to helping themselves in an instant. It doesn't work that way, especially with a country that was under the brutal dictatorship of Saddam and his evil offspring for decades. Tell the Iraqi people we are failing...tell their children. They'll tell you that you are wrong. I've been there and back again twice. You go, see for yourself, then come back and speak from EXPERIENCE instead of hearsay...



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
We all know Kerry's main campaign platform "John Kerry, he is not G.W. Bush". And thats all he has, he is not Bush.


I think that's hell of a platform. To be different from somebody who did so many things wrong, statistically means having a better chance to do things right. So scientifically speaking, everybody should vote Kerry just for that reason.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Affirmative Reaction,

Since this thread started with other has voice their opinions as me perhaps more strongly than me, but for some reason you single out my post.

Perhaps should I take it as personal?

My opinions on the thread have been back by other members so I am not posting lies. Perhaps you have nothing good to say anyway about the thread of the post and I am the favorite choices to target.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!I feel honor by such attention.




Don't flatter yourself, and try to understand my post. I said it was directed at you and ALL THOSE who continue to rehash the lies that have been told over and over again....


And oh, by the way...Kerry has NOT released his MEDICAL RECORDS ...wonder why? Perhaps he doesn't want anyone to see how many band-aids were used to close his purple heart winning "wounds".





[edit on 11-8-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
We all know Kerry's main campaign platform "John Kerry, he is not G.W. Bush". And thats all he has, he is not Bush.


If Kerry's main platform is that he is not a Bush "Vote for Kerry... he's not a delusional nut job!", then it would be accurate to say that Bush's main platform would be "Vote for me or you will all DIE DIE DIE, Terrorist TERRORIST TERRORIST, 9/11 9/11 .... ohhh and God bless America"


OI... BTW wasen't it Kerry at the DNC that was pushing to stay away from Negitive ads? and Smear tactics?



wraith



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Bush's record vs. Kerry's? There's absolutely no question who would wipe the floor with who.

Kerry may have only spent months in Vietnam fighting; but that's a helluva lot more than what the Shrub did. He couldn't even handle the National Guard. I'd bet my medals he straight deserted. That's punishable by death in wartime. As it should be.

This goes to show how far gone this nation is when a deserter is so good at skirting, he can become the president of the United States.

When is the media gonna start doing its job and hound Bush about those missing months and if he was, in fact, not just boozing, but snorting coke.

Who in their right mind would vote for that?


[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]


You do not have "Shrubs" war records so how can you say? You can not. You are a sad individual East Coast Kid, you believe the unknown and talk crap about people that have facts on Kerry. We have questions about the war records KERRY let the public see. You have NOTHING on Bush, NOTHING. You really need to THINK UP another argument, this is getting old.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by AntiPolitrix


You have NOTHING on Bush, NOTHING. You really need to THINK UP another argument, this is getting old.


Well yeah we don't have anything on Bush because these records (if they exist at all) are still not public. There are plenty of records a person leaves when in service, down to the target practice score cards. If Bush was a pilot, or anything like that, there'd be tons of paperwork. But like you said, we have NOTHING. I agree with you, AntiPolitrix.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by wraith30

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
We all know Kerry's main campaign platform "John Kerry, he is not G.W. Bush". And thats all he has, he is not Bush.


If Kerry's main platform is that he is not a Bush "Vote for Kerry... he's not a delusional nut job!", then it would be accurate to say that Bush's main platform would be "Vote for me or you will all DIE DIE DIE, Terrorist TERRORIST TERRORIST, 9/11 9/11 .... ohhh and God bless America"


OI... BTW wasen't it Kerry at the DNC that was pushing to stay away from Negitive ads? and Smear tactics?



wraith



NO, stop listening to what your candidate says and look at what he does. Every chance Kerry gets he trashes G.W.. You can not say we are trying to "stay away from Negitive ads and Smear tactics" and then go on trashing the administration at every chance. I am sorry you are so blind.

Ask yourself this, why did Bush say he didn't support Swift Boats? I'll answer, He didn't want to run that kind of campaign for the sake of the American people. This administration knows the American people don't want to so that, we want to hear the issues plain and simple. There is one BIG difference between Demo's and Republicans, Like Gore, the Demos want to drag the American People through recount after recount when they knew they lost. The recounts of 2000 gave the terrorist a green light to attack the US. They saw how divided our country was and attacked. G.W. Bush for Four More..



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by AntiPolitrix

You do not have "Shrubs" war records so how can you say? You can not. You are a sad individual East Coast Kid, you believe the unknown and talk crap about people that have facts on Kerry. We have questions about the war records KERRY let the public see. You have NOTHING on Bush, NOTHING. You really need to THINK UP another argument, this is getting old.


I pulled this up for you. How easy life would be to fall into the deep, dull sleep of cognative dissonance.




Bush's AWOL scandal: Let's break through the media barrier

By Bernard Weiner
Online Journal Guest Writer

A Researcher Uncovers the Facts

As it turned out, the key was a willingness to dive deep into these documents, and knowing how to read them. Rove counted on the essential laziness and ignorance of ordinary mainstream reporters, who wouldn't be aware of what all those military codes, numbers and jargon meant.

Once again, as in so many other areas, the "underground" journalists—in our time, those working on the Internet—rode to the rescue. On this issue, the energy and laser-like focus came from one Paul Lukasiak of Philadelphia.

It turns out that, unlike the great majority of ordinary journalists, Lukasiak was undaunted by the hundreds of pages of dry military records distributed by the White House. He was a bloodhound on the hunt. And, he possessed some experience in working with old documents, especially old military punch-card records from 30 years ago.

In a recent email, Lukasiak described how he pieced the story together: "I spent a couple of months reading the statutes, DoD regulation, and Air Force policies and procedures, and spent a great deal of time figuring out the rest of the payroll records and 'points records' themselves. Having acquired a certain amount of knowledge, the nature and the meaning of the pattern in the payroll data became self-evident. . . . Just by looking at the data lines found in the payroll records, there are obvious patterns that anyone could detect."

And so, piece by piece, Lukasiak pulled together the jigsaw puzzle that was George W. Bush's long-ago, much-abbreviated military service. And, lo and behold, he figured it out. His four months of research led him to a number of incendiary conclusions, documented with his meticulous research, which were picked up by a relatively small number of online websites—Corrente, Kevin Drum, Failure Is Impossible and The Crisis Papers. For example, here's what Lukasiak furnished The Crisis Papers, as a way of summing up his four months of research:

Bush's Service Was "Misrepresented"
www.onlinejournal.com...


Apologies for the long quote. Most Bush supporters won't even bother reading this fine piece of work. They rather wish to wallow in their world of illusions. The truth is something they can't handle.

MARG, keep fightin' the good fight, girl. The sane and sensible at ATS know you're one of the good 'guys.'




posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:00 PM
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Affirmative Reaction,



The goal was to free the Iraqi people and allow them the chance at a freedom they have never before known. In progress.


Rubbish, they went to war because of the 'threat' of WMD, which the US intelligence was based on UK intelligence which has been proven to have been fabricated to say the least.

They never went into free the iraqi people, that's bull**** that ignorant people like yourself believe. They went in for money, and to settle a score. I really do hope Kerry wins the election because i dont want that stupid, ignorant and criminal president of your country screwing up more foreign relations. Blair and Bush should be trialed for War Crimes, They went against their people, went to war on a sovereign state without approval from the UN, and have killed thousand of innocent Iraqi's, and tortured some to add to the disgrace.

You have had a blanket thrown over your head by these chancers. Do you really think the Iraqi's would have stood with Saddam for so long if it was so bad? I personally know an Iraqi and do you know what he said, he said if you were a law abiding citizen, just going about your work in Iraq, like any person would, there was no problems with Saddams rule. They had Hospitals, Universities, Infrastructure and now it's all gone.

Bush has wrecked in these last few years all for what America has stood for throughout it's history. And Blair has made a right cock up of UK foreign relations as well.

The sooner we get out of Iraq the better.

And also i would say that your comment on America having the best trained military in the world is also a joke, how can you say that? There are so many skilled regiments in other countries which i and many others value higher than the majority of the US army. If someone asked me " your country is being invaded, you can have 100,000 US marines or 100,000 Royal Marines who do you want?" It certainly wouldn't be the US army!

I cant believe your ignorance Affirmative Reaction.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Snoopdopey
Affirmative Reaction,



The goal was to free the Iraqi people and allow them the chance at a freedom they have never before known. In progress.


Rubbish, they went to war because of the 'threat' of WMD, which the US intelligence was based on UK intelligence which has been proven to have been fabricated to say the least.

They never went into free the iraqi people, that's bull**** that ignorant people like yourself believe. They went in for money, and to settle a score. I really do hope Kerry wins the election because i dont want that stupid, ignorant and criminal president of your country screwing up more foreign relations. Blair and Bush should be trialed for War Crimes, They went against their people, went to war on a sovereign state without approval from the UN, and have killed thousand of innocent Iraqi's, and tortured some to add to the disgrace.

You have had a blanket thrown over your head by these chancers. Do you really think the Iraqi's would have stood with Saddam for so long if it was so bad? I personally know an Iraqi and do you know what he said, he said if you were a law abiding citizen, just going about your work in Iraq, like any person would, there was no problems with Saddams rule. They had Hospitals, Universities, Infrastructure and now it's all gone.

Bush has wrecked in these last few years all for what America has stood for throughout it's history. And Blair has made a right cock up of UK foreign relations as well.

The sooner we get out of Iraq the better.

And also i would say that your comment on America having the best trained military in the world is also a joke, how can you say that? There are so many skilled regiments in other countries which i and many others value higher than the majority of the US army. If someone asked me " your country is being invaded, you can have 100,000 US marines or 100,000 Royal Marines who do you want?" It certainly wouldn't be the US army!

I cant believe your ignorance Affirmative Reaction.



Wow...nice post. Totally full of rubbish, but nice try anyway. It was almost coherent, but not quite. You can believe what you want, and be as ignorant as you want, or as ignorant as your bull post proves you to be. Nice attempt at an attack on me personally, doesn't faze me one bit. Like I said, go there yourself, see what is really going on, then come talk from experience instead of sitting on your duff pontificating about things you have no direct knowledge of. But you are pretty good at parroting what you have heard in other places…Polly want a cracker???

Bye now....



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:11 PM
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AntiPolitrix,

I have been through about 5 presidents so far and to tell you the truth yes I look for the facts and actually nothing about bush sugest anything but lies.

And for kerry well Hum.....................kerry has a record to back up his medals.

And bush well Hum.....................stay tune we are still looking for the missing pages.


This is a political year and whenever you post about one candidate the debates will come out of it, that is part of political views get used to it.

Thanks EastCoast kid I have a good thick skin that keeps me alive.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by AntiPolitrix

he trashes G.W.. You can not say we are trying to "stay away from Negitive ads and Smear tactics" and then go on trashing the administration at every chance. I am sorry you are so blind.

This administration knows the American people don't want to so that, we want to hear the issues plain and simple. There is one BIG difference between Demo's and Republicans, Like Gore, the Demos want to drag the American People through recount after recount when they knew they lost. The recounts of 2000 gave the terrorist a green light to attack the US. They saw how divided our country was and attacked. G.W. Bush for Four More..



"NO, stop listening to what your candidate says and look at what he does."

You are absolutly right .. we should infiact pay more attention to what a canidite does and does not do. Has and has not done.

If you look at what KErry has and has nto done it is scary...

If you look at what Bush has an has not done it is Horrifying...

"Ask yourself this, why did Bush say he didn't support Swift Boats? I'll answer, He didn't want to run that kind of campaign for the sake of the American people."

........

"He didnt want to run that kind of Campaign?!?!?"

Tell me.. are you the kind of person that if your son called you and said "Hi dad, I am over at Mike's we are going to be here for several hours... Don't worry bout anything and there is no need to coll over to Mikes house cause I am here.. I'll be home later." that you are going to say.. ohh well he said he was at Mike's no need to not believe him.

Dude!!! look at Bush's campaing history.. there is enough Mud there to morder the Aztek temples. I'm sorry.. could you hear me or is your head burried too far in the sand?

"Every chance Kerry gets" Humm... I will admit I have been busy latly .. let see... speaks about his own war record... speaks about what he would have done differantly, openly disagrees with Bush's policies, explains that he voted the the war but then did nto support he additional funding because the orriginal funding was so horribly mismanaged.. .... .... can somone tell me some Mud Kerry is flinging?

Wraith



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:14 PM
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let's get the point.

There are TWO bands of brothers. 1 saying Kerry is a great leader.
1 saying he is a poor leader.

ONE is lying through there teeth.

Kerry shot a gernade into rocks and caught some of his own shrapnel. HIS COMMANDING OFFICER said hit the road.

3 months later after everyone involved was out of theater he reapplied and got his heart.

His third heart he shot at rice and caught some in his butt. Then attributed it to another incident. That is a fact.



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