'Ley Lines'. What They Are Not And What They May Be.

Originally posted by Frater210
reply to post by Caver78

 

Hi, Caver78.

Thank you so much for your fine post. You may not do this professionally but you have the most well developed opinion on it that I have had the pleasure of reading. I like that you are taking in to account Devereux's work and his compatriots as well as ideas and material that I, and I am sure everyone else have never heard of.

LOL! Yes, I'm opinionated.....heheheh....in a nice way tho.

That gets freaking question of the year right there. What was being compensated for? I will be chewing on that for probably the rest of my life. I never looked at it like that.

So my job is done?? Thats the easy part....trying to figure the correct position of things 30,000yrs ago is gona be rough. (guessing age)



Naw. This whole subject needs an overhaul like so many other subjects. I think Devereux and the gang are a good stepping off point and I am anxious to get to the book you recommended. Your connecting the puzzle pieces is really good stuff and I have a feeling that we may be hearing maybe more on this soon. Don't know why I have that feeling, I just do. Maybe it is the tin foil hat.

I was wondering if you have ever heard of the River World books by Phillip Jose Farmer? In them souls are transported to a world that is looped about by a giant river. The people are fed and supplied with everything they need by 'Grail Stones', huge mushroom shaped megaliths, along the river.

edit on 4-7-2011 by Frater210 because: Ia!

Dunno that it needs a overhaul, but some common sense? Guessing the connect a dot comment went over like a lead balloon? It usually does. I'm not saying there isn't a system of lines, but it'd be like looking at your heart, and assuming it could do exactly the same thing as your liver, cause, like, they're all organs right??!!
And all organs do function within one system, but independently and not at the same level of intensity all the time, and the anology goes on....
Whether the overall organism is the earth, the dead, the weather, us?? Beats me. I didn't get that far in my thinking. I've heard of Mr. Farmer, and am fairly sure I've read at least one of his books, and am wracking my brain to remember...

reply to post by Caver78

Guessing the connect a dot comment went over like a lead balloon? It usually does. I'm not saying there isn't a system of lines, but it'd be like looking at your heart, and assuming it could do exactly the same thing as your liver, cause, like, they're all organs right??!!

No. It did not go over like a lead balloon at all. I agree completely, it makes sense to me. Sometimes I think that what we may be seeing is people at places all over the world maybe trying to recreate the same apparatus with local materials. So it is going to be different everywhere.

I agree. Different peoples taking advantage of different resources and energy at different locations. Many similar systems trying to achieve the same results but not necessarily connected. Am I on the right track?

reply to post by Caver78


Caver78,

I was also wondering if you, or any other member that is lurking, might have ever heard or know anything about downtown Los Angeles? I have heard, but I do not remember where, that the bandstand across the street from Union Station and at the Southern end of Olvera Street marks what was known to the natives there as a very important 'power point'.

I think that I would not be surprised at all to learn that Olvera Street actually lays on a straight track.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Frater210
reply to post by Caver78

 

I was also wondering if you, or any other member that is lurking, might have ever heard or know anything about downtown Los Angeles? I have heard, but I do not remember where, that the bandstand across the street from Union Station and at the Southern end of Olvera Street marks what was known to the natives there as a very important 'power point'.
I think that I would not be surprised at all to learn that Olvera Street actually lays on a straight track.
Thanks in advance.

Frater I'd start with the oldest maps I could get my hands on and maybe GPS Olvera Street? Old surveyers maps, anything to locate the position. Also look into old Spanish records. Loads of work,LOL! But should pay off.
It's also possible if it's an old section of town they haven't run all the power lines underground and a Dowser may be of help. In fact the local Dowsing Society may be a better place to start.
I'm on the east coast, and altho I've been to CA never could keep my bearings. The colors threw me off too, of the foliage and landscaping.Very few Emerald Isle greens!! Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Frater, forgive me if this seems to go off-topic but I think it's pretty darn intriguing. But hey, you posted the picture...ok, here goes -

In the Egyptian cartouche you have provided look down in the bottom right hand corner. This is the baboon headed version of Thoth.

Thoth became heavily associated with the arbitration of godly disputes,[8] the arts of magic, the system of writing, the development of science,[9] and the judgment of the dead.[10]

Source - en.wikipedia.org...

He also appears as a dog faced baboon or a man with the head of a baboon when he is A'an, the god of equilibrium.

The Egyptians credited him as the author of all works of science, religion, philosophy, and magic.[35] The Greeks further declared him the inventor of astronomy, astrology, the science of numbers, mathematics, geometry, land surveying,

The Greek Version (Hermes) -

Thoth's qualities also led to him being identified by the Greeks with their closest matching god Hermes, with whom Thoth was eventually combined, as Hermes Trismegistus

Hermes is a messenger from the gods to humans, sharing this role with Iris.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hermes, as an inventor of fire,[4] is a parallel of the Titan, Prometheus

The Hermetica, is a category of papyri containing spells and initiatory induction procedures. In the dialogue called the Asclepius (after the Greek god of healing) the art of imprisoning the souls of demons or of angels in statues with the help of herbs, gems and odors, is described, such that the statue could speak and engage in prophecy.

Imprisoning demons, prophecy and animating statues? Whoa....

Jewish Mysticism -

Some authorities regard him as a contemporary of Abraham, and some Jewish traditions go so far as to claim that Abraham acquired a portion of his mystical knowledge from Hermes himself (Kybalion).

en.wikipedia.org...

In Islamic faith -

Antoine Faivre, in The Eternal Hermes (1995) has pointed out that Hermes Trismegistus has a place in the Islamic tradition, though the name Hermes does not appear in the Qur'an. Hagiographers and chroniclers of the first centuries of the Islamic Hegira quickly identified Hermes Trismegistus with Idris[citation needed], the nabi of surahs 19.57 and 21.85, whom the Arabs also identified with Enoch

and Edgar Cayce? -

In some trance "readings" of Edgar Cayce, Hermes or Thoth was an engineer from the submerged Atlantis, who also built, designed or directed the construction of the Pyramids of Egypt.

These recount how Enoch is taken up to Heaven and is appointed guardian of all the celestial treasures, chief of the archangels, and the immediate attendant on God's throne. Much esoteric literature like the 3rd Book of Enoch identifies Enoch as the Metatron, the angel which communicates God's word.

en.wikipedia.org...

Not the Mormons too! -

The Book of Moses is itself an excerpt from Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible, which is published in full, complete with these chapters concerning Enoch, by Community of Christ, as the Holy Scriptures/Inspired Version of the Bible, where it appears as part of the Book of Genesis. D&C 104:24 (CofC) / 107:48-49 (LDS) states that Adam ordained Enoch to the higher priesthood (now called the Melchizedek, after the great high priest)

Sorry if this seems to go off topic but it opened whole new avenues of investigation for me to think about. Thoth/Hermes/Melchizidek/Enoch/Pyramid builder etc. etc.
The tradition was local but spread throughout the Middle East and then to Europe and the rest of the civilized world.
I can only think of one other figure who is dominant throughout the major religions and that is Moses who is supposedly a descendant of Thoth.
Thoth had a tremendous influence on the world as we know it through religion and mysticism and perhaps in ways we can only guess about at this point in history.
Somewhere within these traditions lie clues to original question of what function do ley lines and megalithic sites serve.

Cheers,
ATA

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Hi, ATA. Thank you for the great post.

When I put this thread together I really had to restrain myself in order to keep things focused so that Dvereux's ideas could get through without putting everyone to sleep.

I really have had my own ideas developing on this and I see some odd inconsistencies in Devereux's line of reasoning (I Think).

Mainly this...

The origin of the Ley theory In 1921, Englishman Alfred Watkins had a sudden perception (he called it a 'flood of ancestral memory'), while looking at a map of the Herefordshire countryside.

He saw that various prehistoric places, such as standing stones, earthen burial mounds, prehistoric earthworked hills, and other such features fell into straight lines for miles across country.

So Watkins has a 'flood of ancestral memory'. This sounds to me like the kind of thing that a man of that time that was interested in things like Theosophy might say. Or any other form of fasionable spritualism or spiritism going on at the time.

But then Devereux goes on to say this...

The first thing I can assure you is that what is talked about in New Age journals, workshops and groups today about 'leylines' is mainly a combination of misunderstanding, old falsehoods, wishful thinking and downright fantasy.

And this...

For about 7 years in the 1920s, Watkins referred to his alignments as 'leys'. This is an Anglo-Saxon word meaning 'cleared strips of ground' or 'meadows'. Watkins' theory of leys was that they were old straight traders' tracks laid down by surveyors in the Neolithic period of prehistory.

They used surveying rods, he claimed, and it was this line-of-sight method that led to the straightness of the old tracks.

That sounds pretty bland to me for a guy that said he got the information by way of a 'flood of ancestral memory'. You know what I mean? But then Devereux again describes Watkins feeling about the lines like this...

Watkins felt that many of the key sighting points along these old straight tracks evolved into sacred sites, such as standing stones and burial mounds.

Watkins felt that eventually the old straight tracks fell out of use, and so we only have the aligned sites today to indicate their courses or routes.

He also theorised that in the historic, Christian era, some of the prehistoric, pagan sites became Christianised, and this explained why he found so many ancient churches standing on his alignments. It is certainly a fact that many such sites did become Christianised throughout Europe.

So, although I really appreciate Devereux giving me traction to think about this stuff differently, and I think his Roads of The Dead theory is just golden, I can't get over the nagging feeling that that ambiguous part of his article instills in me.

I suspect that Watkins was pretty starry eyed about the whole thing from the beginning.

You are not off topic at all...



Yes. I saw the little Cynocephalus as well. I think it is really cool that you pulled that detail out.

When I saw it I thought that I must really be on the right track, grabbing that image, seems the light-bulb-things did have something to do with Ancient Egypt's dead-management program.

reply to post by Frater210


Somehow I get the feeling that these are answers that we're not supposed to have unless we're 33rd degree Masons.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Somehow I get the feeling that these are answers that we're not supposed to have unless we're 33rd degree Masons.

I know, ATA. And I just can't keep away from questions.

I can't help but feel and believe that someone knows the answers. I mean, I just can't get over what seems to be the biggest question; how did we forget our past? We should know definitively what all those lines and monuments are but we just plain do not. That really bugs me.

In a fiction novel by John Crowley called Engine Summer humanity is so far beyond some nearly final cataclysm that the people have forgotten the uses of virtually all of the artifacts left behind by 'The Angels' (past humanity). They are so detached from their past that they develop new, tiny, weak technologies because they just cannot remember the past in any useful way. Talk about being knocked in to the stoneage.

Things are so bad for humanity (in the novel) that another race had to come here to save the remnants of the human race by genetically altering them so that their only sustenance comes from smoking the 'breadfruit' from a plant brought here by the alien race

Anyhow, they forget completely what paved roads and highways were for. They are totally stumped by them.

Why are we so stumped by these plain straight paths found all over the world? What could their true purpose reveal about our past? That is what I am in it for. And if someone in a Masonic Lodge somewhere knows the answers I would be very surprised.

So, presently, I am pretty well convinced that all of this had to do with some kind of institutionalized 'Dead Management" program that was enacted worldwide from necessity. That is my best, vague guess at the moment.

Both replies have plenty to think about within them.

I am equally "bugged" about what are we missing? Having heard just about every hypothisis with PD's being the latest in a long line of guesses, none still "ring true". Whatever the original purpose we probably will never know. Mapping what's left should however be a priority.

As many indiginious cultures had no knowledge of Thoth, yet apparently used straight tracks I will guestimate the influence is less than suspected. but made for a good read anyway. Never paid much mind to if other countries had "energy vortices" associated along their Ley Lines, but that is certainly the case on the North American continent. Also had a finding by dowsers showing a major energy line crossing what would be assumed straight tracks instead of in line with. ????

I've always been inclined to disregard the ingrained Bucky Ball map of Ley Lines, or energy lines as they have seldom corresponded to actual fieldwork. Started out assuming someone was correct, and within a few years found out everyone was just as clueless as me. The field results just weren't matching up.

There used to be a map online someone did of "blue Lines" that did correspond closely with fieldwork results, and have to thank both of you for forcing me to remember this.Now I'm off to search the internet for it!!

Correction;
It's the Blue Grid, or Russian Grid

Lo these many years later there seems to be no new information on this. If anyone finds any let me know!
Thanks.

reply to post by Caver78


Wow, Caver78. I just Google'd Blue Grid and I found this site...

n.domaindlx.com...

They allow the download of .kml files which work with Google Earth and allow the Blue Grid network to be viewed that way. Very cool. There are also maps of the different states available. Here is California...



The site author is referring to it as the Becker-Hagens grid.

Kevin Seimbeida- who is the creator of the RPG RIFTS placed Ley lines in post apocolypse Earth. The Line of energy connect at Nexus points and "Rifts" may open at the junctions. These Nexus points lead to alterante dimensions and worlds.

perhaps there is some truth to this and ETs use these to travel back and forth. This would solve to question as to how they travel through the universe as it would take lighyears to get around from star to star.

If you look at the points that these lines intersect they are in some very interesting places

SWEET!!!

All I could find was info via the Wayback machine...really glad you all kicked the back half of my brain into gear.

----should have linked first, this is the old stuff. Sob!

How did you access the maps? all I got was computer code?

reply to post by Caver78


It is probably because I used Google Chrome. It downloaded the .kml file and when I clicked on it it spawned Google Earth. Otherwise there seem to be instructions there for importing the .kml file to Earth manually.

The map image I just clicked on and then right clicked the image to 'save image as' and saved it to my desktop.

The strange thing is I do not even think I have earth loaded up right now so I don't exactly know how .kml files work.

P.S. Also; plenty to be found on Blue Grid and Becker-Hagens grid it is just that it is at places like bibliotechpleiades (er whatever) and GLP and I don't like to haul stuff over from there. I also found a very scholarly looking .pdf from Montalk on Becker-Hagens grid.

BRB.

Here we go. Probably good for any of us that did not know this...

What Is KML? KML is a file format used to display geographic data in an earth browser, such as Google Earth, Google Maps, and Google Maps for mobile. A KML file is processed in much the same way that HTML (and XML) files are processed by web browsers. Like HTML, KML has a tag-based structure with names and attributes used for specific display purposes. Thus, Google Earth and Maps act as browsers for KML files.

Source:code.google.com...

Also, if anybody else is having trouble locating Google Earth in Windows 7 let me know because I have figured it out.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Somehow I get the feeling that these are answers that we're not supposed to have unless we're 33rd degree Masons.

Hey, ATA. I just realized that we have a funny synchronicty here. You mentioned 33rd degree Freemasons on my 33rd thread. I also used an old John Dee image of two ball cane and turned it sideways to get the 007.

This is a very interesting thread, the OP stated something that often makes me think.

Have we evolved out of something that we used to have? Such as a more acute ability to sense and feel something that we cannot explain today? Faith in religions back then inspired them to build massive monuments, cathedrals, henges etc.

reply to post by VraxUK


Hi, VraxUk.

Have we evolved out of something that we used to have? Such as a more acute ability to sense and feel something that we cannot explain today?

I personally feel and think that this is true. This may be what I referred to in the OP to a 'paradigm change'.

reply to post by Frater210


That's exactly what I think and was referring too. Without a need for this knowledge why would we continue using it, do we still need it? Is it even there?

One of lifes great mysteries I think!