God is GOOD and I will defend Him. A Challenge for Atheists

reply to post by EnochWasRight

All of the prophets would disagree with you.

People's interpretation of the "Prophets" in Jesus' time led to his being crucified, so I'm not too concerned about your statement that they don't agree with me.
Jesus did not live up to expectations, so they killed him.
That was something unexpected but Paul says it was a mystery that was kept, apparently even to the prophets.
Your reaching out for evidence to support the murderers of Jesus leaves me unresponsive to your argumentation.
You believe in an evil god and can produce evidence of his evil nature but I refuse to accept him as my personal god.
I believe in the Christian God and reject all others no matter how many books you can cite in support of them.

So, you're saying that Jesus and God had a plan, but the people tricked them?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

All of the prophets would disagree with you.

People's interpretation of the "Prophets" in Jesus' time led to his being crucified, so I'm not too concerned about your statement that they don't agree with me.
Jesus did not live up to expectations, so they killed him.
That was something unexpected but Paul says it was a mystery that was kept, apparently even to the prophets.
Your reaching out for evidence to support the murderers of Jesus leaves me unresponsive to your argumentation.
You believe in an evil god and can produce evidence of his evil nature but I refuse to accept him as my personal god.
I believe in the Christian God and reject all others no matter how many books you can cite in support of them.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

So, you're saying that Jesus and God had a plan, but the people tricked them?

The plan was a secret, only revealed after the fact.
"The people" misinterpreted what the prophets said and created their own idea of what was supposed to happen.
When Jesus did not live up to those wrong expectations, they killed his, thinking he must be some sort of impostor.
What I see people doing today is retracing the steps that the people who killed Jesus took in creating their false interpretation, and building up their own expectation, and agreeing with, and wanting the same thing as the people who murdered Jesus.
My advise is: Don't do that. Accept the Jesus who was revealed to us, and get to know him, rather than looking for a "new and improved" Jesus of our own invention. That is idolatry, worshiping your own creation.

Nothing you are saying is in the Bible. Do you have supporting verses?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So, you're saying that Jesus and God had a plan, but the people tricked them?

The plan was a secret, only revealed after the fact.
"The people" misinterpreted what the prophets said and created their own idea of what was supposed to happen.
When Jesus did not live up to those wrong expectations, they killed his, thinking he must be some sort of impostor.
What I see people doing today is retracing the steps that the people who killed Jesus took in creating their false interpretation, and building up their own expectation, and agreeing with, and wanting the same thing as the people who murdered Jesus.
My advise is: Don't do that. Accept the Jesus who was revealed to us, and get to know him, rather than looking for a "new and improved" Jesus of our own invention. That is idolatry, worshiping your own creation.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Nothing you are saying is in the Bible. Do you have supporting verses?

Yes.

Acts 2:23
this man, who was handed over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you executed by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles.

Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that had been kept secret for long ages,

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Nothing you are saying is in the Bible. Do you have supporting verses?

Yes.

Acts 2:23
this man, who was handed over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you executed by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles.

Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that had been kept secret for long ages,

edit on 26-2-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Acts 2

22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus,[d] delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

Quoting the entire context outlines the fact that God had a purpose greater than those he outwits. This is a process of conquering sin and death. It's not just for the Hebrew people, but for the entire world. I miss what you are implying here. God is good, clearly. The same God in the OT is the same in the NT. It is mankind that has changed by the leading in wilderness. The Age of the Father (first 2000 years) is that of hardship and strength. The Age of the Son (2000 years) is that of developing leadership. The Son is not with the Father yet. He is the Lord of the Earth on his own. Psalms represents the lament of the Son in the wilderness. The kings of Israel are his trials. The Prophets point the way toward the future. The Age of the Holy Spirit (2000) years represents the lessons learned and the raising of the people. The final Age is God and Son together with Spirit on Earth.

You cannot simply say that the Lord of the OT is not the Lord of the NT. He is rising to new life in the wilderness. This is all of us. If you condemn the process, you condemn yourself. We have all been here many times. We are the ones in the past, present and then future.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

CHALLENGE

My challenge for the Atheist is simple. Give me your logic and reasoning for God’s ability to hate anyone enough to send them to hell. Assuming for just one minute that God exists, reason out how a loving God can destroy nations and then order His believers to do the same. I will present you with my answer and you can agree or dispute my argument.

Wow, I can't believe that an atheist would jump into an argument where they are forced to concede their own position of God’s non-existence before the argument even begins. Clever trick.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

You cannot simply say that the Lord of the OT is not the Lord of the NT.

I can because the New Testament supports that view.
It does not support the idea that we are to believe in the god of the Jews.
It says that there was a former administration carried out by angels.
It never mentions God as having the name invented for Him by the Jews.
We know God through His son, Jesus, and not through old Jewish books no matter how sacred those people claim them to be.
Now you can believe in them all you want but you should claim to be a Jew, and not a Christian, if you do.

Jesus referred to the God of the OT:

Mark 12

24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses (OT), in the account of the burning bush, how God (SAME BOOK) said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You cannot simply say that the Lord of the OT is not the Lord of the NT.

I can because the New Testament supports that view.
It does not support the idea that we are to believe in the god of the Jews.
It says that there was a former administration carried out by angels.
It never mentions God as having the name invented for Him by the Jews.
We know God through His son, Jesus, and not through old Jewish books no matter how sacred those people claim them to be.
Now you can believe in them all you want but you should claim to be a Jew, and not a Christian, if you do.

edit on 26-2-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Jesus, according to the Gospels, had a habit of frustrating his opponents by throwing back at them their own scripture.
He is quoting their scripture where it says that god . . .
That does not mean Jesus is endorsing that as being an accurate description of the God he knows.