God is GOOD and I will defend Him. A Challenge for Atheists

reply to post by SuperiorEd

God is good.

I did manage to find a verse in the Old Testament that says that.
I thought, well that's nice. Then I looked at the context and it is a David character in Psalms 119 saying that God is good but then I realized it was more like the person demanding or pleading for God to start to live up to this expectation after so much he had suffered.
Then you find the same sort of thing in Lamentations 3:25 that they need to take their punishment without complaining and to expect God to do something good in the future.
1 Chronicles 16:34 says God is good, and the next verse says, Say this prayer: “Deliver us, O God who delivers us! Gather us! Rescue us from the nations!
So God being good again seems to be a demand more than a statement of existence.
Psalm 25:8 says God is good, right after the previous verse says, extend to me your favor, O Lord!
so more pleading to God to do something in the future.
Psalms 106 starts out saying God is good, then launches into, Remember me, O Lord, when you show favor to your people! Pay attention to me, when you deliver, so I may see the prosperity of your chosen ones, rejoice along with your nation, and boast along with the people who belong to you.
again more pleading for God to be good to them.

reply to post by bogomil

"One 'god' fits all".

I knew someone who said something like that. He was an old and practically blind Jew who had escaped Germany and the Nazi concentration camps by coming to America. He came from a family of soap makers and started making soap . He would come once a week and use a room at the community college to do a lecture and discussion open class in religion. He put the slogan on the bottles of soap he sold. All one God. He was really into doing good works. He would have everyone recite these lines with him, If not now, when, if not me, who. He would give you a bottle of soap if you could repeat the complete moral ABC's . He was a great man, I believe, and I wish he was still around.
About Dr. Bronner, Wikipedia says,

Although his parents were killed in the Holocaust, Bronner promoted a belief in the goodness and unity of humanity.
The firm has been the subject of many published articles and has supported many charitable causes.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
Really? Its the biggest single question of physics. Link

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by bogomil

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with science. Light is photons, belonging to a category of particles called 'transmittors'. Transmittors aren't the basis of the mass of cosmos (that is quarks), neither is the standard 'matter' experience made from photons (but from the repelling of same-polarized electro-magnetic fields).

Please provide me one link to a credible physicist that knows how particles slow down and gain mass to form matter. This is the 8 billion dollar question and why the CERN project is currently being undertaken. We are in the dark when it comes to physics. We have ever-changing theories. That's it. The more we understand, the closer it gets to the simple description in the Bible. God is good.

I can't refer you to any scientist, who can explain how "particles slow down and gain mass to form matter", for the very good reason, that such an idea has nothing to do with science.

edit on 7-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

Where was the 'slowing down' part in this link?

This is basic physics. Here is a quote form a LINK that explains it. Physics is a passion of mine. You can simply say, "Your are wrong." Until you dare to actually check, you are simply being incredulous. As I said, this is the single question to be answered. The CERN website originally had an article about the Higgs Boson particle and associated wave that stated, "If found, the God particle will demonstrate streaming information form another dimension." You cannot have information without consciousness.

I am not telling you all these things to make myself look smart. I am telling you these things, as are all Christians witnessing these things, so that you will wake up to the lie of Atheism and realize the truth that cannot be escaped. You can see this truth here, in movies, at the grocery story....It's everywhere you go. God speaks to you if you simply listen and believe. Loving Him is easy. He is good and cannot be anything else. Faith, Hope, Love. You must be humble to see it. Hardening your heart will blind you. This life is short. What can you possibly gain if you loose your soul?

The theory behind the Higgs is that mass does not derive from particles themselves. Instead, mass comes from collisions between particles and a non-matter particle, or boson, called the Higgs. These collisions slow down some particles and give them mass, but other particles experience few collisions or none at all.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

God speaks to you if you simply listen and believe. Loving Him is easy. He is good and cannot be anything else. Faith, Hope, Love. You must be humble to see it. Hardening your heart will blind you. This life is short. What can you possibly gain if you loose your soul?

Though i know this to be true, i don't believe there is a way to "lose your soul"... Its who you are, not something that can be bargained with, or even lost.

People seem to think their soul is like a nickle, you can trade it off to "the devil" or lose it if you do something wrong.

Personally i think this is just more propaganda...

Based on may things I have read from many different sources, the soul can be compared to a modem. It is the vessel that your spirit uses as a connecting point to a vehicle. From our own experience, this would be like a modem. The spirit is connected to the body by the soul. The soul is also comparable to the animal nature. Some people call this the soulish nature. The Bible speaks clearly that God has the ability to destroy the soul. Nothing else can separate the soul from the spirit. Hell is eternal separation from the spirit.

What is the spirit? Consciousness. This is given to us on loan form God. As long as we retain our soul, God's consciousness resides in us. Consciousness is awareness and intellect. A better word is NOUS. We do not own our soul. Here is an article I wrote on this subject. LINK The subject of the article is Objectivism and Ayn Rand's books, the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. If we don't understand that the soul is only ours as a gift, then we treat it as a possession. We don't possess the soul, it possesses us as a gift. It is our job to refine and nurture the gift with God's help. From my perspective, if we accomplish the task of training the soul (like a child), we are given freedom. This is comparable to turning 18.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

God speaks to you if you simply listen and believe. Loving Him is easy. He is good and cannot be anything else. Faith, Hope, Love. You must be humble to see it. Hardening your heart will blind you. This life is short. What can you possibly gain if you loose your soul?

Though i know this to be true, i don't believe there is a way to "lose your soul"... Its who you are, not something that can be bargained with, or even lost.

People seem to think their soul is like a nickle, you can trade it off to "the devil" or lose it if you do something wrong.

Personally i think this is just more propaganda...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

God is good.

I did manage to find a verse in the Old Testament that says that.
I thought, well that's nice. Then I looked at the context and it is a David character in Psalms 119 saying that God is good but then I realized it was more like the person demanding or pleading for God to start to live up to this expectation after so much he had suffered.
Then you find the same sort of thing in Lamentations 3:25 that they need to take their punishment without complaining and to expect God to do something good in the future.
1 Chronicles 16:34 says God is good, and the next verse says, Say this prayer: “Deliver us, O God who delivers us! Gather us! Rescue us from the nations!
So God being good again seems to be a demand more than a statement of existence.
Psalm 25:8 says God is good, right after the previous verse says, extend to me your favor, O Lord!
so more pleading to God to do something in the future.
Psalms 106 starts out saying God is good, then launches into, Remember me, O Lord, when you show favor to your people! Pay attention to me, when you deliver, so I may see the prosperity of your chosen ones, rejoice along with your nation, and boast along with the people who belong to you.
again more pleading for God to be good to them.

edit on 8-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

17 Every good thing bestowed and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation, or shifting shadow (James 1:17).

Salvation is free. It only requires you to follow one law. Love God (He is all others combined). This is free to us but costly to God. We receive and can give nothing. God gives what we request by the merits of the law of love and costs Him the suffering of creation. He bestows all that we have. We bestow love only. If we choose not to bestow love back to God, then we have no reason to receive our requests. If we are evil to the core, we still receive life from God. He is long-suffering and not slack as we count slackness. God gives, even when we do not deserve the gift. This is grace. Grace is unmerited favor from Him. If we ask for evil by our actions, God allows it. It's our choice.

Luke 11:9-10
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks, it will be opened.

Luke 11:2-4 Our Father in Heaven, hallowed by your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Ask and ye shall receive.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Ask and ye shall receive.

Ask who? A deity? Or just ask in general?

If you visit the Tenth Dimension website authored by Rob Bryanton, you get a feel for the dimensions. There is too much there to really explain to you. His videos are amazing. I have seen and considered them all. I have also read his materials.

It starts with a point, as Rob says. Eventually, the dimensions stop expanding and you get a singularity of all infinity and possibility at rest. This can be seen as a point of indeterminate size. Think of this like going outside our universe far enough to see it as a point. You can only see what is there by zooming out and then back in to the smallest particle to possess a true perspective. This indeterminate point then becomes the 1st dimension again for the next round of dimensions. Each point is its own infinity in a type of ever-expanding fractal. God is outside of this. The Hermetic axiom states, "As above, so below" As below, so above" You are a tiny universe of 50 trillion cells. Each of those cells are a tiny universe. The solar system is a tiny universe. The galaxy and so on. As above, so below.

This comes from the Emerald Tablet of Hermes and from the Corpus Hermeticum. Hermes was likely Enoch from the Bible and the book of Jasher ch. 3. Hermes gave us one of the best descriptions of God in the Corpus. Hermes loved and walked with God. Walked 300 years with God (just like Enoch) and was thrice great. Most scholars believe Him to be three people. I believe Him to be Enoch, Joseph and Moses. Enoch before the flood and Joseph and Moses after. The book of Jasher and Enoch 1 is critical to understanding who Enoch was. The Greeks called Him Hermes, messenger to the gods. The Egyptians called Him Thoth. In Isaiah 19, the monument to the Lord at the border of Egypt is the pyramids. Many believe that Enoch built the pyramids to store information for Joseph. He hid the emerald tablet in the catacombs under the pyramids. ATS covered the story about the recent discovery of the catacombs.

None of us can truly consider a God who is capable of this. We can, however, conceive that a God could be capable. Realizing the vastness of our reality allows us to see the possibility. Realizing the mathematics of our reality allows us to see the hidden dimensions. If you start to draw these perspectives together, you realize that there is design behind the structure of it all. It is vibrant and living. What is God then?

That is a great question. We cannot know. What we can know is that He gave us information that predates our understanding of it. This is important to consider as we are just now beginning to see into the torn veil that Christ split the last time He was here. His promise is that the veil will be removed when He returns and we will see face to face. Faith becomes fact for those of us who have bothered to trust that He is good. If you can't trust God, there is no faith present. There is no love. You are only left loving yourself. This is a lonely place to be when all the evidence is history combined. The Bible matches this history with design and purpose. No spaghetti monster God could do this.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Your most recent post (11:22 PM) is a full-scale sermon, but before I approach your posts from that direction, I still strongly insist on a clarification of positions (as I wrote to dbates). It's completely impossible to consider a 'god' who sometimes comes from the bible, sometimes is a 'dimension' (or similar) in a home-brewed pseudo-science system, and sometimes both.

So until you present more coherent reasoning-chains, I can only compress my comments of this whole post to: Faith-based postulates.

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

Ask who? A deity? Or just ask in general?

Your spirit is your consciousness. This consciousness is part of God's. When you sin, it is known. God is in your consciousness. Better stated, you are in God's consciousness. It is on loan to you. What you see and do, He sees through you. Your autonomy is a gift. God gave up part of Himself for you to experience as a new creation. For you this is free. To God it is costly. Only a good God can do this for others.

To ask Him anything is to meditate on that thought. God knows before you even ask. The only way to communicate with Him is in your thoughts. Speak if you want, He hears the thoughts either way. Just ask Him to help you see clearly. This must be done from a platform of humility.

If you are doing it to receive a reward, you are duplicitous. This means you are saying one thing but desiring another. If you are doing it to avoid punishment, you are once again duplicitous. Good is its own reward. Simply ask God to help you love Him and understand His will and purpose for you.

"Everyone has his own specific vocation or mission in life to carry out; a concrete assignment which demands fulfillment. Therein he cannot be replaced, nor can his life be repeated. Thus, everyone’s task is as unique as his specific opportunity to implement it.” Victor Frankl

God has a plan for you. Just ask. He does the rest. Don't bother asking if you want something else in return. God is not a vending machine and He will not be tested. What He sends your way will not be what you expect. It will, however, be the best thing for your future and the development of your character and mind.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Your spirit is your consciousness. This consciousness is part of God's. When you sin, it is known. God is in your consciousness. Better stated, you are in God's consciousness. It is on loan to you. What you see and do, He sees through you. Your autonomy is a gift. God gave up part of Himself for you to experience as a new creation.

So, what you're telling me is that God is watching me 24/7, and knows my thoughts?

To ask Him anything is to meditate on that thought. God knows before you even ask. The only way to communicate with Him is in your thoughts. Speak if you want, He only hears the thoughts that produces the vibration from your mouth. Just ask Him to help you see clearly. This must be done from a platform of humility.

What proof do you have that another entity understands and comprehends my thoughts? And that my thoughts arn't my own?

If you are doing it to receive a reward, you are duplicitous.

Well i would describe it as pathetic, and self-serving.

This means you are saying one thing but desiring another. If you are doing it to avoid punishment, you are once again duplicitous.

Agreed, just as uncourageous as the the seeking of a reward; similarly lacking in nobility, a dishonesty with one's critical thinking faculities.

"Everyone has his own specific vocation or mission in life to carry out; a concrete assignment which demands fulfillment.

Not sure what he means; the meaning to life is but the meaning you attribute to it. There is no predetermined mission; it isn't a case of fate. Although you could argue otherwise (Determinism vs Fatalism)

God has a plan for you.

So you've suggested.

Just ask.

An african child may ask; and what is the plan for them? To starve and die?

He does the rest. Just don't bother asking if you want something else in return.

You've already argued that (seeking for a reward/fearing punishment)

Again, it seems, you've argued pre-concieved notions of reality based on your faith. To attempt to explain these things as "truth" and without adding "it's my belief that" you highlight a clear lack of critical honesty in regards to discourse despite a lack of evidence to support your claims to truth.

I would leave the atheist alone, backstabbing believer is the ones you must worry about

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

What proof do you have that another entity understands and comprehends my thoughts? And that my thoughts arn't my own?

Herein lies the problem for you. Pride keeps you from even understanding. Until you humble your heart and seek God, He does not reveal Himself to you. He lets you know He's there, but you will never accept the voice apart from faith. You are essentially blinded from it. Truth is easy to find and is always within your own heart when you dare to look and listen. Believers will scream to you that it is true because they experiences it first hand. God speaks to the believer and they hear. No words are ever heard. He speaks to the spirit and heart only.

The next time you screw up and hurt someone, your spirit will speak to you. This conscience language tells us what is right and wrong. This is built in to every human soul. This is how God speaks to those who love Him, only much stronger, with crystal clear intention and meaning. If you are not listening to God, you are listening to the world. The world speaks the opposite of God as a counterfeit word to your heart. 1 Corinthians speaks of this in detail.

How do we know this is true? A believer has been on both sides of the voice. They are telling you the truth. What other motivation would there be for me to spend my time here on a nice summer day? It's love. God motivates us to love others and to share this good news that God is good.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

God speaks to the believer and they hear. No words are ever heard. He speaks to the spirit and heart only.

And for many hundreds of years so the believers claims; and what was God's words in times of slavery; in times of worldwide crusade; in times of preaching purgotory for unbaptised babies?

Was God a mute to these believers? The people who once said "God has spoken". They preached the "spirit" too, and still thought God was on their side for war, or for the stoning of women.

It seems the church and religion is guilty of a moral relativism that preachers convict non-believers of with ease.

Please, don't tell me if i believe i will suddenly experience conscious interjections. It's unjustified, and clearly subjective.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

. . .every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of. . .

Notice how you are quoting exclusively from the New Testament?
That God is good.

reply to post by jmdewey60


How sure are you of that?

Perhaps that deity is the lesser of two evils; not until the gentle Jesus (meak and mild) is eternal damnation in hellfire introduced.

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

An african child may ask; and what is the plan for them? To starve and die?

First, let's be clear why the child is suffering. All of us are affected by choice, providence and the actions of others. Providence represents the actions of God. Since we are already given what we need to thrive on this planet, the rest is up to us. God gave us two choices in the Garden of Eden (earth). Follow Him and live a life of rest and abundance. Follow our own pride and work the ground in toil.

Africa is a country like any other. They abound in natural resources. Choices are what define our state in life. God does not make those choices. Neither do children, obviously. Ultimately, man can blame Himself. God made it clear from the beginning what happens when we are apart from Him in our lives.

America, on the other hand, is a land of abundance. This is directly proportional to our beliefs and our work ethic as reflected by our choices and beliefs. Kids suffer here too. In each case, it is a result of living apart form God. Not for the child, but for the parents raising the child. The community at large is responsible for correcting this. We live in a great land precisely because we follow God to a higher degree. As we begin to see this decline, we see our country go down the tubes. Just open the paper. We can only blame our own choices.

In a world where we choose to love others and follow God, these things would not happen. We can only blame ourselves for allowing it, not God. He gives us His law of love. If we choose not to listen, the result is suffering. If one suffers, we all suffer. This includes God. He will not mess with our free will. Human suffering can only be the result of human error. Otherwise, there is no free will or perfect law of love. We must choose love to avoid suffering the wrongs of evil. Why did God set it up this way?

Confucius "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

As we would tell our kids, "Now you are in the real world. Make good choices." Children will only thrive when the adults follow God's law of love by wisdom and virtue. We must blame ourselves.

God does His part by giving us and example of love, wisdom and virtue. The rest is our mission in live to fulfill.

Although I cannot prove this, I believe that John 3 speaks of transmigration of the soul. This is where a person is born (baptized) into many lives. These experiences teach the soul over time. Jesus said, you must be born again. I believe this to be the symbolism of baptism into the water (material world). Read John 3 with this in mind. Divine justice, children suffering and all other evils can be see in light of God teaching our soul perspective. We must 'do' to understand as Confucius says. This is my perspective and maybe not yours.

Jesus then says, in John 3, that you find salvation from the water by being born of the water and spirit. This is gaining union with the Holy Spirit so that the tree above bears fruit from the roots below. We nourish the roots below by our actions and our ability to love. When the fruit is ripe, it falls and grows into our next existence. This birth, development and rebirth process never ends. Eventually, when we gain union with the spirit, the veil is lifted and we are aware of our past, present and future. In other words, we see face to face. Faith becomes fact.

Again, this is my perspective and how I read the scripture.

Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Matthew 25

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

How sure are you of that?

Perhaps that deity is the lesser of two evils; not until the gentle Jesus (meak and mild) is eternal damnation in hellfire introduced.

A worm that will not die, is that what you are referring to?
Gehenna is literally a trash dump for Jerusalem and when it got full they would set fires to it to reduce the mass a bit. It did not burn forever, once something was destroyed, it would cease from being consumed with fire.
Also Satan is not clearly defined before the New Testament. Have you wondered what the significance of that may be?

Keep in mind that the scripture talks to us as if we have always been here. My idea of John 3, mentioned in the last post, of transmigration is a key mystery as far as I am concerned. I believe that our lack of understanding is tied to the tower of Babel. The scattering of people into nations was the scattering of key ideas that unlock mysteries of God. The Hindus hold the truth of the Avatar concept. The Eastern religions take transmigration as fact. All seven continents hold some truth that ties in with the language used in the Bible. Ultimately, the Bible is misunderstood until it is revealed. This happens for us over time. It contains the ultimate truth if the keys of perspective are used. Perspective is found scattered around the earth and revealed to us by God in due time.

Truth abounds if you have the keys to understanding. I see hell as what we create. Eventually, the souls who are left here on earth will inherit a burned out husk. This will be as much of a hell as we can currently produce for our individual lives by our poor actions. Hell is very real, even if it is not the literal place of fire and torment. Would God make us fear punishment to force us to do Good? No. It is our choice and choices create reality. We create hell for ourselves by separating our own lives from God. If we use our weapons of mass destruction, then hell will be right here for all the souls left on earth. I don't plan on being here.

If transmigration is true, then each year the earth degrades by entropy, it moves closer to becoming a hell for man to live in. Being born back to the water again and again becomes a hell to be saved from. Escaping requires salvation. Christ is offering it to us by faith, hope and love. If transmigration is not true, then we have one life to get it right.

I don't care who you are, you are a blind man describing fire. So am I.

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

How sure are you of that?

Perhaps that deity is the lesser of two evils; not until the gentle Jesus (meak and mild) is eternal damnation in hellfire introduced.

God created this earth as a place for us to learn and gain sentience. The problems you speak of below are by the hands of ignorant men. Education takes time and great effort. I'll say this again.

Confucius "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

Man learns by doing. No other method will work. If God does it for us, we will not learn. As I have said before, we have been here many times and in many lives. Each life is by faith, not fact. If the veil was not over the temple (the body is the temple of God for man), we would be living by fact. Only the body is destroyed. The soul cannot be destroyed except by God.

Let me put it this way: A Christian believes that God incarnates a soul into our present body. A Christian also believes that God can reincarnate us into a new body in heaven if we are saved. In the middle, I believe that John 3 states that we will experience this many times. A typical Christian who thinks transmigration is false only believes it happens twice. Either way, we all believe it is possible.

Divine justice is cleared up when you consider this as the solution. A mystery is meant to be solved. Christ died on a cross as God in the flesh. He lived the example for us. Salvation is free to us if we love God. Salvation is costly to God and is a gift to us. Grace is unmerited favor. God is good. If not, we cannot trust Him. His demonstration is that He is trustworthy in all matters. Even if we cannot see it now.

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

God speaks to the believer and they hear. No words are ever heard. He speaks to the spirit and heart only.

And for many hundreds of years so the believers claims; and what was God's words in times of slavery; in times of worldwide crusade; in times of preaching purgotory for unbaptised babies?

Was God a mute to these believers? The people who once said "God has spoken". They preached the "spirit" too, and still thought God was on their side for war, or for the stoning of women.

It seems the church and religion is guilty of a moral relativism that preachers convict non-believers of with ease.

Please, don't tell me if i believe i will suddenly experience conscious interjections. It's unjustified, and clearly subjective.

edit on 8-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

. . .every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of. . .

Notice how you are quoting exclusively from the New Testament?
That God is good.

Honesty is a quality of goodness and a virtue. God demonstrates all seven virtues to the letter. He tells us exactly what we need to know. In the OT verses below, God allows evil against His chosen people to teach them a lesson that ultimately brings about goodness for them. Notice that He speaks to generations of time and not just the present moment. The Bible always speaks to us as if we are always here observing His work. This gives credence to my assertion of transmigration.

Joshua 23

12 “But if you turn away and ally yourselves with the survivors of these nations that remain among you and if you intermarry with them and associate with them, 13 then you may be sure that the LORD your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the LORD your God has given you.

14 “Now I am about to go the way of all the earth. You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the LORD your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed. 15 But just as all the good things the LORD your God has promised you have come to you, so he will bring on you all the evil things he has threatened, until the LORD your God has destroyed you from this good land he has given you. 16 If you violate the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them, the LORD’s anger will burn against you, and you will quickly perish from the good land he has given you.”

Chapter 4

14 “Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living.

But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”

God puts any other wisdom to shame. God is a rock solid foundation. Did God do what He promised if they disobeyed. YES. This shows that God does what He says, even to those He loves. This always leads us to His promise in the end. Faith HOPE and love.

Ultimately, Revelation will happen just as God says. Who do you serve? Your 'self' and this world, or God?