"If We Don't Have A RIGHT To Question A Police Officer Then We Are Living In A Police State!"

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
reply to post by NuroSlam

 

You're wrong unfortunately we will never know but I would guarantee that even without a camera the officers would have done the exact same thing, how do I know? Because I grew up in a law enforcement family, I've seen the job done. The "pig"(which is highly offensive and I take that personally) you speak of did nothing wrong. He gave her the benefit of the doubt and gave her way more warnings then she deserved. She had a crappy attitude and stayed that way the whole time. Due to all of this and people's misconception of this video is going to only increase the risk that officers face. Stupid people like yourself are now going to confront officers more often and cause more problems. YOU are what is wrong with America today.

Personally, I could care less what you find "offensive". Its a "free" country after all isn't it? or is it now a crime to "offend" those with badges? If he did nothing wrong, and was in the right, why was the case dropped, why did the "entire" force go about ticketing her supporters at a meeting about police misconduct in a pure case of retaliation? If he was so concerned with his safety all three people should have been "ordered" to back up, should all have been arrested, The fact that the only person addressed was the one with the camera and your failure to see it shows your ignorance and blind acceptance of government control, but then again, as a fireman, you do also live off the backs of the people who do work day in and day out. Of all government agencies the one I despise the least is the fire department. But to defend the actions of this "officer" flexing his muscle shows that perhaps my respect for some in the fire department should not be much different then my respect for the LEO. As long as LEO's continue to act like bullies and thugs I will continue to show them no respect what so ever. Its funny, Here in Phoenix, the Fire Dept. is as disgusted with the police as the normal citizen is.

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
reply to post by Youmakemewonder

 

all your doing is comparing apples to oranges, they never asked her to stop recording, plain and simple. She refused to move, even after being told several times. again plain and simple.

All you are doing is ignoring the facts of the situation and shifting the goal posts. Only one person was told to go inside out of 3 people. Why is that? None of the officers orders were lawful. That is why he got an attitude and cops that arrest people for having an attitude do not belong on the street. Policing attitude is not their job, especially when they instigate!

reply to post by ABWarrior58

look the fact is if she just went inside or on her porch she couldve continued recording. She didn't have to give the cop attitude, it wasn't necessary

The problem here lies in semantics. What, exactly, is "attitude"? I've seen cops interpret someone asking "Officer, can you please tell me what's happening here?" as 'attitude', and then threaten the person with arrest if they didn't 'back off.' The situation was very minor. ( A small fire in a commercial building, which the fire dept had already extinguished.)

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
reply to post by livefreeordieinnh

 

look the fact is if she just went inside or on her porch she couldve continued recording. She didn't have to give the cop attitude, it wasn't necessary

No the fact is, she was on her own property, but then again, "cops" don't believe in private property unless it is their own

Here is my unbiased view of the events that took place in the original video:

1. We do not know what happened prior to the video begins.

2. The man being searched is already in handcuffs when the recording begins.

We do not know why the man is in handcuffs, but we do know he was in handcuffs prior to being searched.

3. With the way the police officer reacts, it seems like this is the first time he notices Emily Good and whoever is with her.

4. The police officer asks, "Do you guys need something?"

There was at least one more person other than Emily Good present.

5. Emily Good responds with "I'm just--This is my front yard. I'm just recording what you're doing. It's my right."

First of all, Emily GOod has an annoying voice and annoying personality. She clearly doesn't know how to communicate without being defensive. The officer never asked about why she was recording. She should have said something like, "No, thank you."

6. The police officer responds with, "Actually, that's the sidewalk."

With how dark it is, it's probably difficult for the officer to tell exactly where she is standing; however, I don't personally think it matters where she is standing. THis doesn't change anything in regards to whether she's on public property or on her private property.

7. She replies with "This is my yard."

Again, this is defensive. It looks like she is approximately 15-20 feet away from the vehicle, but it's possible she could be zoomed in, but unlikely.

8. The same police officer escorts the man behind one of the squad cars. While the two other officers search the vehicle, We then hear the first officer say, "I don't feel safe with you standing behind me, so I'm going to ask you to go into your house. You understand? I don't feel safe with you standing behind me...(inaudible)." He then says something along the lines of "If I'm assuming you're anti-police officers, it's safer if you're not standing behind me, but inside your house."

From the angle, it doesn't appear she is standing behind the officer. Now, she is standing behind one of the officer searching the vehicle, but that officer doesn't say anything to her. I found that odd. Plus, there is a bright light shining from the squad car, so we cannot see the officer anyway.

9. She then responds with, "I'm gonna stand in my yard, if that's okay."

Again, she's defensive. I'll give it to the officer that he may not have felt safe with a group of at least two unknowns near him (and the other two officers). At this point, she probably should have stepped back to the porch. I don't think it is necessary for her to have to go inside, but she could habe showed the officer that she understood their concern by stepping back a little bit.

10. The officer appears from behind the bright light shining from the squad car. He says, "What you said to me before you started taping, I think, uh, you gotta stay in your house guys."

We have no knowledge if anything was said to the officer prior to the beginning of the recording. If something was said, she do not know what it was.

11. The officer continues his approach with his bright light shining at Emily Good and whoever else is with her.

I've never been a fan of this tactic used by police officers. IT blinds the other person. I think police officers should treat everyone as equals to themselves and talk to people without blinding them. However, if he did feel in danger, I would understand him wanting to be able to see everything that was going on.

12. She replies, "WHat did I say to you that offended you?"

Good question.

13. The police officer says, "You're standing behind us officers when we're doing a f'n traffic stop."

Technically she was only standing behind one officer, and the not the one engaging her.

14. She responds with, "I'm allowed to stand in my yard."

15. The police officer says, "Just stand in your house."

The tone in his voice tells me that he is like, "Come on, I don't want to be the bad guy here. JUst do what I'm asking and we'll all have a good night." I may be reading into it, but it didn't sound aggressive, but more like a plea.

16. She said, "I'm allowed to stand in my yard."

This woman is clearly defensive and hasn't moved an inch from her original location.

17. The officer says, "I'm gonna ask you one more time. We don't feel safe with you standing right behind us while we're doing a traffic stop. I'm gonna ask you to go into the house."

I've never heard of a "command" coming in the form of asking someone to do something. The "lawful command" argument may have more sway with me if he would have said, "Go back into your house. It is for our protection." Although, I would still argue she probably could have avoided all of this by stepping back close to the house. She didn't budge. She didn't see the situation from their perspective.

18. She replies, "WHat? It's my right to be in my yard and I'm sorry you don't feel safe. All I have is a camera. I'm clearly wearing nothing. I have no weapons."

First of all, she is wearing some clothes. If not, the charges would have been different.

19. The officer continues his approach, bright light and all. He says, "It does not matter. You're not listening to our orders right now. We don't feel safe with you standing behind us. You're not even moving a foot further back. You're gonna be--"

Technically, he is the only one asking her (and her friends?) to go into the house. Technically, asking is not an order and citizens do not take orders from the police. They can comply with lawful commands, but I did not hear a command, but a request.

20. She finally realizes this "I'm standing in my yard" argument isn't flying and she says, "Do you want me to move a foot further back?"

Her voice is not trembling and she is afraid. She could have avoided this is she would have moved back initially. I'm not saying into the house, but make an effort to understand their concern.

21. The officer says, "You're going to be under arrest. I already warned you."

Technically, he didn't not warn her that she would be put under arrest if she didn't comply with his request.

22. She says, "I will move a foot further back, but I'm not going to go into my house. I feel like I need the fresh air right now."

THis was the dumbest statement throughout the whole encounter. She's making excuses to try to get out of an arrest. Again, she could have moved back much earlier and it wouldn't habe been a problem. She could use zoom. Or maybe she can't do to inexperience with the camcorder?

23. The officer continues his approach and says, "We;;, I'm arresting you for not following police orders when we're asking you to...". He is cut off by her trying to plead her case. He continues, "We asked you to not stand behind us."

It is true that he did not ask them to not stand behind the officers. He asked them to go into the house.

24. She points this out by saying, "You did not ask us to not stand behind you."

25. It continues on and the officer says he was trying to give her a warning, but then she begins to back up. At that point, he decides to arrest her.


I found it too cumbersome to continue to trascribe the whole incident. When I first viewed this video, I was absolutely outraged that the police officer made such a big stink about her recording. HOwever, after watching it again, he felt uncomfortable with people of unknown intent standing so close to them while they were in a vulnerable situation. I completely understand why he asked them to go in the house. I do feel if she would have moved back to in front of the house, the officer would not have approached her as he did. The "lawful command" came more in the form of a request, but it was still given numerous times. I think both sides made a mountain out of a mole hill. The woman at the end of the video becomes hysterical as she's being arrested. She should have backed up initially, she could have continued to record without incident.

In the past few years, I have seen more evidence of a police state than anytime before. The two-tour Iraq vet who was shot 60 times by the SWAT team in his own home on a bogus lead, the man who was beaten in Las Vegas for recording the police as they were driving away, the man in California who was in his garage recording a police incident on his street who was arrested for recording, and other incidents. I think it is sick that police corruption, brutality, and abuse occurs. However, I think the woman was in the wrong by not at least backing up to give the officers more room to work. That was not the initial conclusion I had the first time I watched the video.

I support police, especially in Jefferson County, MO where I live. The Jefferson County Sheriff's Department has, for the most part, treated me with respect.

I oppose sobriety checkpoints. I've been through four of them, all in Jefferson County. The first three times, about seven years ago, the officers were very rude and assumed everyone out at 11pm much be drinking. The last one that happened just a few weeks ago, the officers were very friendly. I hope they learned that showing respect for the citizens goes a long way.

Everytime I encounter the police, I am respectful and thank them, even if I happen to get a ticket. I know that I have never received a ticket I did not deserve.

That's my unbiased view. I hope it brings some balance between the "police are always right" group and the "police are always wrong" group.

reply to post by Fury1984


Your entire argument, well written out as it may be, is that she was rightfully arrested because she had an attitude? America sounds fun.

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
reply to post by NuroSlam

 

You're wrong unfortunately we will never know but I would guarantee that even without a camera the officers would have done the exact same thing, how do I know? Because I grew up in a law enforcement family, I've seen the job done. The "pig"(which is highly offensive and I take that personally) you speak of did nothing wrong. He gave her the benefit of the doubt and gave her way more warnings then she deserved. She had a crappy attitude and stayed that way the whole time. Due to all of this and people's misconception of this video is going to only increase the risk that officers face. Stupid people like yourself are now going to confront officers more often and cause more problems. YOU are what is wrong with America today.

Don't you understand that cops have no rights whatsoever regarding a person's "attitude"?
A cop has no right to treat me like I'm some kind of terrible threat or enemy because he doesn't approve of my attitude.
We're making these arguments because people all over the U.S. are getting fed up with abuse at the hands of cops.
People in my area despise cops. There is a very good reason for it. The cops are the ones with the attitude. Treating people like criminals when it's not warranted, bullying people and power-tripping to a degree that rivals Kim-Jong iL. How's THAT for "attitude"????

she was the only one arrrested because she was too close to the officers, the others were at the house, plus she argued. in her own yard or not, in fact do me a favor go in your front yard today completely nude, cuz that would still be illegal

the cop is a turd and any one who says the woman is an agitator should remeber that makes her a hero if she gets paid a ton of money than god bless she is helping to bring an oppressive and unconstitional police tastics to an end.

please help to end unions for public servants as its too hard to fire a cop, also push for a third party to police the police(checks and balances) currently the only ones policing the police are the police, news flash cops are corrupt and protect each other even over the constitution. whens the last time there was a major arrest of cops that started from a cop reporting a crime by police? they stick together! dont tell me even so called good cops dont see or hear their so called brothers violate someones constitutional rights and say do nothing! they are all a bunch of hipocritical turds at this point, like the church protecting child molesters your reputation is sh#t, and videos like this just confirm it.

reply to post by ColeYounger


then you obviously live in an area where theres a good reason the cops have as you say a bad attitude, I know that a Detroit cop is more on edge then a cop in the boondocks, its about the environment they are in

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
she was the only one arrrested because she was too close to the officers, the others were at the house, plus she argued.

He said he did not feel safe with her behind him. The other two people were in the same direction from the cop as she was. It is not against the law to argue against an unreasonble order from a trespassing cop.

in her own yard or not, in fact do me a favor go in your front yard today completely nude, cuz that would still be illegal

No one ever made the argument that you can do anything you want on your own property. The argument is that a cop cannot just come onto your property and order you to different parts of it willy nilly.

yes they can if they feel your presence is either a danger to the officers or the person in question or if they are interupting a current investogstion

Originally posted by Xcathdra
You do have a right to question the police. The problem is people dont understand there is a time and place for that. A 3rd party trying to question an officer who is on a traffic stop is not the time nor place. Demanding answers from an officer during the middle of a call or questioning doesnt quite work either.

While I understand people hate the police and so they are targeted because of it, how come you dont bother to go after the courts? Seriously, walk into a courtroom during the middle of a trial and question the judge and watch what happens.

While I understand the fear mongering peole like to do, they need to understand the law and how the system works before opening their mouths.

The guy was let go because no weapon was found in the vehicle, the driver had no warrants for his arrest, he had a valid license and proof of insurance. Exactly what would he be arrested for? Or are you suggesting that because the dirver was stopped and because he is black he should have been arrested?

Secondly, the lady was not arrested for recording the incident. She was arrested because she would not move back. A I have stated in other threads, you guys need to get that through your heads. She was NOT arrested because she was recording. Hell her own recording proves that.

I also find it intresting you guys ignore the females past history, namely the fact she has been arrested in the past for the exact same behavior while protesting foreclosures.

edit on 3-7-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

The system, my friend, is broken. American courts are corrupt. The police are out of control. And we are bound ad gagged by threats of force from our politicians and corporations. "Go ahead, speak up, we dare yah." Their smug, portly faces so content that they are the masters of their domain.

Not unlike the senators of Rome just before the fall of the empire. Damn fools, and the fools that follow them.

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

then you obviously live in an area where theres a good reason the cops have as you say a bad attitude, I know that a Detroit cop is more on edge then a cop in the boondocks, its about the environment they are in

I actually live in a low-crime area. The economy is halfway decent here, and the people are mostly hard working middle-class types. The reason people here hate the cops is simply because a large number of local cops are such pricks. You wouldn't believe the crap they get away with. If you answer "yes sir" and "no sir" and they KNOW you're gonna be a good little citizen, you'll get off with minor abuse. Do one thing they don't like or look slightly menacing and God help you. They always call for back-up and suddenly you're getting abused by 4 cops.

The city\ local govt doesn't seem concerned about it. A cop has to flagrantly violate someone's rights in front of witnesses before anything gets done. It's probably because the crime rate is low, that the idiots in local govt don't care. The old "if it ain't broke don't fix it" syndrome.

Funny you mention Detroit. The cops here wouldn't last 5 minutes there! They're only tough when they're 100% sure there's no danger to them.

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
reply to post by livefreeordieinnh

 

look the fact is if she just went inside or on her porch she couldve continued recording. She didn't have to give the cop attitude, it wasn't necessary

No the fact is, she was on her own property, but then again, "cops" don't believe in private property unless it is their own

It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't private property. The cop was in the wrong anyway. She could've been in public property or someone elses property. It's irrelevant.

I'm really curious how some of you police haters feel they should act in certain circumstances. It's as if they feel cops deserve no safety, no rights, they should be an open book, and we have the right to treat them like complete crap for doing their jobs. I remember watching one video, where a cop was screamed at, cussed at, and called every vulgar name in the book, while trying to give out a traffic citation. He was a bit older, he knew the ropes, and knew how to control his emotions. He didn't even make the guy get out of the car. He gave the guy his ticket, while under constant verbal abuse, and left once he was done telling the guy what he had to tell him.

Now, I realize many of you feel like the cops should be our puppets, with no emotion... just robots to do our bidding. You feel like you should be able to spit in their face, and they will say "Thank you sir, may I have another?" But they are human... they have emotions, and sometimes it gets the best of them. I think in this case, the police felt threatened, and asked the woman to go inside to protect themselves from her anti-cop hate. Like many of you display. Can you blame them? Considering that lawyers now can sue companies and individuals for the most inane things.. and win.. I'd certainly not want someone who clearly hates me for my position, to be standing behind me in the dark holding anything, or taping my actions.

Some of you have gone insane with the "freedoms" you think you are allowed. You don't have a real concept of the freedoms that were wanted when the country was founded, and now, it's all about hating anything government, and demanding anything you feel you are not allowed. Like that dancing moron at the memorial. He has the right to dance 99.95% of the locations in the country. But no.. he feels he has the right to dance ANYWHERE he wants, and so in a fit of government hate, he goes and dances in one of the few places it's been deemed a "display," and gets arrested.. as he knew he would. And gets all sorts of support from the poor persecuted masses who feel our country is a communist (or socialist) regime, because you can't dance anywhere you damn well please.

I'm done with this sort of thread I think. It's like arguing with debunkers, who will NEVER change their minds, no matter what evidence is brought to light. There are many here who laughably feel we could police ourselves, and that HATE authority - and nothing anyone says, no matter how much sense it might make, will change their minds. They hate cops, and that's that.

I agree that there is a time and place to question authority. To question a police officer while he is on a traffic stop, thats a bad idea. Question a police officer while he is eating lunch, somewhat of a bad idea. Question a police officer at his station, now thats a good idea. Someone posted about questioning a judge in the middle of a trial. I think that's a bad idea, especially if it is not your own trial. We all have the right to a fair and speedy trial, and I would be pissed if someone interrupted my trial with some rant. Basically, if you are going to question authority, make sure you think it through. Good luck and God Speed. Blue for Bravery, Red for Blood, White for Life.

Im sure we all remember this video from a few weeks back, the poor lady was in her yard recording police action... where the officers LET THE GUY GO, and arrested her instead! Im glad she is speaking out against this tyranny! And also bringing up previous "bad cop" incidents... SPEAK OUT EVERYBODY, We need to get over this fricking defeatism that is a plague on our country

"If We Don't Have A RIGHT To Question A Police Officer Then We Are Living In A Police State!"

So first of all. This girl did not question anything. She was video-taping. Secondly. I am somewhat amazed by the term tyranny.
When I think of tyranny, my mind goes out to scenarios like this.



All I see a childish girl seeking attention and revenge. Nothing that bad happened. She didn't get beat up, raped or tortured. So the term tyranny is totally inadequate here in my opinion. Only a spoiled kid reasons that way.
Do you want to see some more real tyranny that is being carried out in our name?



Imagine the ruined lives, the ruined families, the ruined future generation.

I am very amazed by the Hopi wisdom and their understanding of why America is dying. Please have a look if you feel like.
It basically comes down to their belief that humanity has lost its ability to live spiritually on this earth. We have become obsessed with consumerism and egotistical desire. We have lost our respect for mother earth and our fellow human being. We take more than she gives and we do not give anything back. It is by this simple mechanism that we are doomed for extinction.
In part two the man says something very wise and that is my reason for posting this. He says that while he hears everybody talking about their rights, he never hears anybody speaking about responsibility. He goes on to say that the Bill of Rights should have been a Bill of Responsibility





America is dying not because of defeatism in my opinion, but because of lack of responsibility and idiocy. Defeatism comes with a certain amount of awareness right? I seriously question the existence of such an awareness. All I see this. (see video below)

Where is this defeatism?



We are not talking defeatism here. We are talking ignorance and stupidity. (in my opinion)

Defeatism is acceptance of defeat without struggle. In everyday use, defeatism has negative connotation and is often linked to treason and pessimism, or even a hopeless situation such as a Catch-22
en.wikipedia.org...

If defeatism means acceptance of defeat without struggle, then first there must be an awareness of being under attack. I seriously question this awareness. I might be wrong, we can go into that.

Stupidity is a lack of intelligence, understanding, reason, wit, or sense. The modern English word "stupid" has a broad range of application, from being slow of mind (indicating a lack of intelligence, care or reason), dullness of feeling or sensation (torpidity, senseless, insensitivity), or lacking interest or point (vexing, exasperating). It can either infer a congenital lack of capacity for reasoning, or a temporary state of daze or slow-mindedness.

Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge)[1]. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult. "Ignoramus" is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a name of someone who is overwhelmingly ignorant.

reply to post by dadgad


Pretty sure that is referring to the fact that she was arrested after questioning the order she was being given instead of complying.

Originally posted by ABWarrior58
she was the only one arrrested because she was too close to the officers, the others were at the house, plus she argued. in her own yard or not, in fact do me a favor go in your front yard today completely nude, cuz that would still be illegal

actually, there was someone standing next to her, if you were to actually to view the video. Let me give you an example of "pigs" and private property here in phoenix.

Around 10:30 am two squad cars pulled into my parking lot. A parking lot I pay taxes on, pay for upkeep and repair so my customers have a decent place to park when they come into MY store to do business. Now I understand that there are times that LEO's need to discuss things in the course of their duties, and they are free to do that in my parking lot. on this day, one backed in, the other was head in, one was a male one was a female. yes, I understand the need to converse without exiting a vehicle. after 20 mins or so two more patrol vehicles pulled in again a male and a female. Ok its around lunch time and as I sale food its possible i need to feed them. An hour and 15 mins after the first two LEO's arrived I started receiving phone calls asking if I was open, if every thing was ok. These LEO's were not in my parking lot to conduct business but to do nothing more then grab ass with the girls,
I went out and informed them they needed to leave as they were in fact interfering with my business. The first male office said "We are not interfering with your business, its out lunch time". At which point I said "This parking lot is for customers only, and as you haven't entered my store to purchase food you need to leave". I was then told to mind my own business (which is what I was in fact doing). I then said "Listen, this is private property, you are trespassing and interfering with my business". He looked at me and returned to his conversation. I then said "Since you are trespassing, I am going to call the station and file charges on each and everyone of you, what is your name and badge number". They all drove away.
No respect for property or rights, just a bunch of goons who think they are the slave masters