Army, CIA, corporations, propaganda & Internet sock puppets : facts, tactics & fight back

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posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by theHairInTheSoup
 

A strawman? That implies I'm attacking your position.

well
*you've quoted completely out of the quote context
*you've exaggerated/generalized the issue
*you didn't acknowledge that i was directly addressing the issue somewhere down in the OP (& advocating for a stop to calling any posters disinfo agent)

/. back on-topic ty




posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by bonnieprince
reply to post by Pimander
 


Just like all people who disagree with the government line or any other mainstream line aren't disinfo agents/sheep. Sorry if I hyperbole'd, but if you look through any thread on this site, I am sure almost 90% of them will have the accusation of someone being a disinfo agent, or anyone not agreeing being a sheeple. For example, almost any birther thread.

So what? That has very little to do with the reality that their are agents active on sites like ATS. Stop rolling out the straw man!



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
You have to admit that many people who are just plain wrong often like to accuse other's of being a 'disinfo agent' when they lack the facts to argue a reasonable case.

OR does pointing that out expose me as disinfo?

Read this post.



Originally posted by Pimander
This old straw man again!

Your argument is BS. All conspiracy theorists do not, "immediately label (who believes anything different), as either a disinfo agent, a sheep, or a shill!" That may happen sometimes. I would argue it's usually pointless to do it. However, that isn't what the OP is saying so is a straw man anyway!


Are you going to engage with the subject matter being discussed or just knock down a straw man and pretend that what we are discussing is not important?

I suggest I can speak for the intelligent conspiracy theorists on this site and say - we are not saying anyone in particular is a disinformation agent. Let's discuss what the OP is presenting and take it from there. Thanks for that contribution but it is not especially relevant and has been repeated on here hundreds of times.


How many more members will roll out the same argument. Is that all you have to say?



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by ipsedixit
By patiently meeting these liars on the level of their lies with simple easy to understand truths, that undermined their position, I believe that I was possibly winning converts to the truth in a demographic that brainy truthers seldom address.

I hope you didn't mean me...:lol

Seriously though, you make a good point. Your strategy of patiently dealing with and undermining their position (agent or just dogmatist) can be worthwhile.

However, often they ignore the evidence and repeat the lies or just continually knock down a straw man in an attempt to appear to win the argument. Frequently this strategy relies on the fact that many readers will give the thread, at best, a cursory read and move on. In this situation it is better to stop engaging, indicate where you have answered and point out what they are doing then move on.

In case you haven't seen it, here are some tips.


COINTELPRO: What you should know.
www.dailymotion.com...
www.disclose.tv...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Thanks for joining the truth campaign.



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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Few Americans know they were born with RIGHTS. Laws exist to protect humans from government and business.
Resistance is not futile- it's FATAL to authorities. Without consent and accountability, leaders have no authority.
Every human has Universal Human Rights. Learn them, Exercise them. Share them. Give them away to others!
Evil is the opposite of GOOD. Bad cops are robbers. Crooked Congressmen can't stand without liquored lawyers.
Discrimination is unlawful. Domestic ERRORISM is what George Walker Bush did to America on Sept 11, 2001.
O' Bama claims to be a constitutional scholar. He knows impeachment is safe and effective remedy for fraud.
Marriage is not defined in the Constitution; it's a State issued license to have and hold a sexy tax deduction.



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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Nice thread

You may want to add THIS to the list, it is part one of a document from the INDECT consortium, software that correlates posters etc & places them in distinct groups, recognises them & their traits, automatic replies etc. This is very advanced COINTEL spyware they want to use (or are using now) in Europe.
Thanks to Maxmars for uploading it, i was unable to, for some reason



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Pimander
Your strategy of patiently dealing with and undermining their position (agent or just dogmatist) can be worthwhile.

However, often they ignore the evidence and repeat the lies or just continually knock down a straw man in an attempt to appear to win the argument.


I agree. I never run in circles with them, in fact, giving them the last (inane) word is often more destructive to their position anyway.

It is an interesting battle. Thanks for the links.



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by theHairInTheSoup
 
I have posted threads and comments on this exact subject but ultimately the problem will not be shoved until something along the lines of the French Revolution happens. Stalin, Mao and others throughout history had their solution and that is what terrifies those who would for example be behind Homeland Security, TSA etc. What they do is not to protect the American people, it is to protect themselves from the American People when everyone wakes up to what they have done, are doing and are planning on doing. Suzanna Gratia-Hupp said it very well




Perfectly pointed post and video.
I'm only about 50/50 on Penn and Teller, but the end of the video almost brought me to tears.
As in Tears of Rage:
(Bob Dylan/Richard Manuel)

We carried you in our arms on Independence Day
And now you'd throw us all aside and put us all away
Oh, what dear daughter 'neath the sun could treat a father so?
To wait upon him hand and foot and always tell him "No"
Tears of rage, tears of grief
Why must I always be the thief?
Come to me now, you know we're so low And life is brief
It was all very painless When you went out to receive
All that false instruction Which we never could believe
And now the heart is filled with gold As if it was a purse
But, oh, what kind of love is this Which goes from bad to worse?
We pointed you the way to go And scratched your name in sand
Though you just thought it was nothing more Than a place for you to stand
I want you to know that while we watched You discovered no one would be true
And I myself was among The ones who thought It was just a childish thing to do

I think the only solution is dissolution of the government as it is, and a return to it's simplistic and beautiful intent, as interpreted perfectly here by Abe Lincoln: A government of the People, by the People, for the People.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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thehairinthesoup, you just got yourself another flag!

That's an awesome post, and there's a LOT more than meets the eye into it. Partly what I've been suspecting for years, but now you bring some facts about it...

Neurolinguistics, just as its source behavioral psychology, is a area of psychology that is very cynical... treating humans like lab rats. It goes down the hellhole of science, along with biotechnology (GMO) and nuclear energy and weaponry.

A worth read, although I don't think neurolinguistics are so much taken seriously in publicly-commissioned science... but for darker, more secret uses (for social control in secret) there's a matter of great concern.
edit on 4/7/11 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Oh and btw,

There's a crazy end to this theory of mass control through neurolinguistics... A.I.

Artificial Intelligence programs have gone somewhat to the closet over the last few years, as the best ones are mostly academic projects. But they have an history of beings used into fake chats in the past, and perhaps these attempts could have been experiments for better AIs.

So, these fake online personas could very well be AI! Programmed accordingly with disinfo and psyops tactics... actually they can be mostly efficient for staying active online 24-hours a day, where even the biggest no-lifer would fail!



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Sadly, our governments have reached a point where anything they or their MSM mouthpieces say can be counted on to be false. Take whatever they say and it will be either irrelevant or the exact opposite of the truth. People should know better than to take money for working to sabotage the critical thinking capacities of others. They might as well cut off their victims legs because they are making them handicapped and destroying that persons capacity for growth by feeding them propaganda.

S&F


That's exactly where I -as some others here- am at. Living among a grid of massive brainwashing where people care less about what's true or right, but rather about what "they" say it's true, and what "they" say is right (like Laws, propaganda bs, etc).

Part of it seems to be a natural part of human behavior, that we refer as the "herd mentality", which is not necessarily wrong when confronted with REAL people who got no darker agenda, where debate and fact-checking can provoke a change in the right direction...

But here they use this behavior in perspective to paid and trained disinfo agents, may they be human or bots, like the generic TV/radio host, or programmer. So in that situation, there is no longer any room for debate... only for conflict!



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Afcourse there is many disinfo cointelpro agents on net. But full payed agents on ATS ? I dont think so ...what will derail here ? Nuclear false flag attack in Berlin on 26th june?
... If there are some guys here i think they are in very small number 3 or 4 (part time job) ..and specified on some topics and boards which have some true and "dangerous" info but every sharp individual will find a path to truth no matter of derailng and disinfo. IMO they have one common characteristic: they lack of common human sense... almost like bots .

A statement from ICA ( (Intelligence Community analyst)


Most here are, as I mentioned in earlier replies, harmless posters looking for some nice and wild theories just to kill some time of daily boredom. But there are some really dangerous individuals, exchanging encoded info via apparently harmless posts about aliens, the usual gov conspiracy theories etc. The perpetrators are anything from mentally unstable youngsters/hackers like Ryan Cleary (suffers from asbergers syndrome) to muslim fundamentalists, all using various forums as info change instead of the usual email/cell exchange. This site is too valuable to be closed. Its vast membership serves a purpose to both NSA and DHS Clandestine Service as one of many great intel gathering sites on the world wide web.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by theHairInTheSoup
 


Cool thread, S@F unfortunately I don't have the time to read it all, or all the links you put up, but it looks interesting. So i'll bookmark it read it some other time.

But ya its been said before and so on, etc etc. "There's a war for your minds" and most people have no clue how there minds function, or that they function at all. I suppose its like everything else, you use it or lose it.



posted on Jul, 4 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by playswithmachines
 

thx, downloaded & now reading but vow seems scary stuff...


Originally posted by Echtelion
Artificial Intelligence programs have gone somewhat to the closet over the last few years, as the best ones are mostly academic projects. But they have an history of beings used into fake chats in the past, and perhaps these attempts could have been experiments for better AIs.

So, these fake online personas could very well be AI! Programmed accordingly with disinfo and psyops tactics... actually they can be mostly efficient for staying active online 24-hours a day, where even the biggest no-lifer would fail!


That's an interesting speculation, I didn't follow on the development of AI this last decade but my first thought is that engaging on forums without human control sounds like science-fiction ! But what do I know about AI ? not so much (anymore) so ...
Off-topic : I have to admit I have suspected google to use some sort of IA technology for their search engine, like a self-learning knowledge base layer running the (so huge) database and my paranoid mind fear the whole system is/could become a "skynet" type, but yep full unprovable speculation.



Originally posted by xavi1000
Afcourse there is many disinfo cointelpro agents on net. But full payed agents on ATS ?


maybe (to start with) you never come across any of those pro-israël/anti-muslim thread ? (see the article about undercover agents from hasbara www.atlanticfreepress.com...)

and maybe you didn't read the quote from HB Gary email, nor bother to view the full document from the link)



To build this capability we will create a set of personas on twitter,‭ ‬blogs,‭ ‬forums,‭ ‬buzz,‭ ‬and myspace

emphasize is mine

since ATS is, if not the biggest, at least one of the biggest news, alternative news & conspiracy forum on the english web, i seriously fail to imagine how they could keep it out of their "media-planning".

Then once again read again the first part about the WHY and the psychological mechanism involved (and who they are really targeting).

What are these phases again in the process of accepting a truth ? denial, negotiation, depression, acceptance ? looking at your post, you'd be at the negotiation step, so right on path->don't worry you'll be fine.

peace
edit on 4-7-2011 by theHairInTheSoup because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 12:20 AM
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Wow, this thread only has 3 pages?!? How unfortunate. This thread is outstanding.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

reply to post by theHairInTheSoup
 





"stop calling everyone that disagree with you a disinformation agent"


You have to admit that many people who are just plain wrong often like to accuse other's of being a 'disinfo agent' when they lack the facts to argue a reasonable case.

OR does pointing that out expose me as disinfo?


IMHO D-agents have some clear strategies.

On ATS , the people who try to take the debate out of the way or try to stay away of debate or try to hit and run are D-agents.

So , I'm sure you are not D.



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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Interesting thread but also very civil... I wonder what this guy did to get banned?


-Bob



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by theHairInTheSoup
since ATS is, if not the biggest, at least one of the biggest news, alternative news & conspiracy forum on the english web, i seriously fail to imagine how they could keep it out of their "media-planning".


i really don't care who has the bling bling as a site although from my own experience it is sites that are not ranked high or let alone even come up within the first three pages of any search engine that you will find real information without links as links is something you do not want. I guess some people do not want the attention but rather focus on information and from there it flows through the web and finds it why to sites like this.

edit: oh i only just realized he has banned, oh well i am sure he will eventually read my comment.
edit on 6-7-2011 by cerebralassassins because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12
 


Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl12
Wow, this thread only has 3 pages?!? How unfortunate. This thread is outstanding.

Skeptic Overlord started a thread and everyone jumped over to there.

ATS Reality: CoIntelPro, Shills, and Socks: The Definitive Guide

In my view though, his thread was an interesting but tangential distraction. It was almost like a straw man thread for me. Just because ATS is probably not a CoIntelPro operation does not invalidate everything in this thread. FAR FROM IT!

It also drew attention away from my thread where I defend the idea that conspiracy forums are likely places where intelligence operatives do more than just observe. Some of the interesting stuff is deeper into the thread but you might be interested enough to follow it. Some might even argue I was winning the argument before the other thread appeared.


COINTELPRO: Mind control and Conspiracy Forums like ATS
edit on 10/7/11 by Pimander because: remove pure!



posted on Jul, 10 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Pimander
 
I'd have to say that, yes, you were winning the argument as far as this or any politically significant site being monitored and/or unwittingly used. It would be an insult to one's intelligence--and the "importance" & weight of a conspiracy site--if no intelligence agency was interested in running games & measuring information flow at the very least.

You can't have it both ways: Either the site isn't important enough--meaning no threat to TPTB--or it is a valid alternative outlet and as such very likely to warrant close attention.

I know there's a few here that do believe ATS ownership has been compromised, but I basically believe S.O.s feelings were genuinely hurt and that is a plus in his favor. That, however, fails to negate the observations that alphabets are most likely running some sort of cointel and/or info gathering programs.

I starred and flagged the other OP and I starred individual posts both pro & con as compelling or interesting arguments were made. But when it comes down to it: I personally assume "they" are watching and probably playing some games, in the mean time I just enjoy the 'tinfo-tainment.'





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