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Nostradamus Quatrain 2.47 - Alexander Litvinenko's Murder

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posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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Nostradamus Quatrain 2.47 - Alexander Litvinenko's Murder




L'ennemy grand vieil dueil meurt de poison
Les souverains par infinis subiuguez,
Pierres plouvoir cachez soubs la toyson,
Par mort articles en vain sont alleguez

The great old enemy mourning dies of poison,
The sovereigns subjugated in infinite numbers:
Stones raining, hidden under the fleece,
Through death articles are cited in vain.


Now for this thread im not going to debate Nostradamus's credibility nor im gonna discuss who was behind Litvinenko's murder.
Im just gonna make a parallel between the events that surronded his death and this specific nostradamus's quatrain.

So for those who know nothing about the case or have forgotten it, read this first:
Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko @wikipedia

Yes i know, it's wikipedia, it can be edited by anyone and so on, lacks credibility and such, but it's good enough for the matter at hand, as im discussing the known facts of the matter and not whom may be behind the events.

So these are the non arguable facts im bringing into discussion:
- On November 1st 2006 Litvinenko felt ill and was hospitalized in England where he had sought asylum for many years.
- Three weeks later he dies.
- Acute Radiation Poisoning caused by Polonium 210 was the cause of death.
- Radioactive traces were found on at least two British Airways planes.
- Litvinenko released a postmortem article in an english newspaper.

Those more familiar with the story may now see where im heading, taking into account what this specific quatrain is mentioning.

But let's go quote by quote, word by word.

L'ennemy grand vieil dueil meurt de poison
The great old enemy mourning dies of poison



This one hardly needs any explanation, Alexander Litvinenko the former russian spy switched sides and became a major pain in the backside for his former countries intelligence services, and yep like we all know by now, he died of poisoning.

Litvinenko is the great old enemy mentioned here.

Les souverains par infinis subiuguez
The sovereigns subjugated in infinite numbers



Now here the vision seems more cloudy and grey, but i think this line refers to how the English sovereigns got subjugated by the internal and external pressures stemming from Russia to shut up litvinenko.
And the overall diplomatic pressure the Kremlin enforced to make sure the case never got as big as Litvinenko wanted.

Bottom line is the English autorities never investigated the matter as deeply as they wished, and a lid was clearly placed on it.


Pierres plouvoir cachez soubs la toyson
Stones raining, hidden under the fleece



Now this is where nostradamus coins the prediction IMO.
Translated to modern term the quote should read "polonium powder rains hidden under the plane"

Polonium 210 is usually found as a powder solution, hence the stones or rocks, as that is what the french word "pierre" means, also and coincidentally(or not) the discovery of polonium was made by Marie Curie and her husband PIERRE Curie...

We know traces of it were found on several planes.

So how does a "fleece" becomes a plane?

Well, it is that old cliche applied to predictions and prophecies, how would one seeing the future describe things he could not name? by comparing and naming them as familiar concepts already known to one.

In nostradamus time there were obviously no planes, so if nostradamus did see a plane, and for a second let's imagine that for example nostradamus got to see a plane soaring above the clouds with the sun shinning on it.

What is the fleece?

The Fleece mentioned in the quatrain refers to the Toison D'or the Golden Fleece, a mythological animal in the Greek lores.
A Winged Ram with a shinny golden fleece.

The key here is that the legend mentioned is a flying animal, so it may be my stretch of the imagination, but i have no issues in believing that if nostradamus saw a plane in his visions, he probably saw the sun shinning on it, and with lack of better words he named it after the golden fleece story.

Par mort articles en vain sont alleguez
Through death articles are cited in vain



Now if the first quote was the one that brought my attention into linking this quatrain to Alexander Litvinenko's death, this one is pretty much the one that confirmed it for me.

Through or In death articles are cited in vain.

That's right, the letter written by Litvinenko on his deathbed fingering Putin and the Kremlin for his murder, to no avail.
And published post mortem by an english paper.

Litvinenko's Post Mortem Letter



So that is it for my interpretation and correlation of this quatrain and Alexander Litvinenko's death.

Now i know this is a very shaky subject, over the years people point out this or that quatrain as refering to this or that event, also i know nostradamus credibility can be extensivelly debated.

But in all my years researching and having an interest in these subjects, i for one never found an event and quatrain that fit so well.

Im not saying my interpretation is right, all im saying is it makes sense, and better than 9/11 or any other event, it does place a nostradamus quatrain after the year 2000 were detractors usually say it was the limit nostradamus predicted to.

So what does ATS think about this one?

Suggested links:
Timeline of the case @BBC

Golden Fleece @wikipedia

Polonium 210 @IAEA

Polonium found in BA planes @BBC

many more articles and theories can be pulled on the case detailing the diplomatic pressure applied by Russia, and how they basically made sure the English would never solve this case, or at least link it directly to the Kremlin.

Related ATS.com discussion topics:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
(too many nostradamus threads to reference)




posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by AnotherYOU
 


Good work! Would like to see more of your Nostra decodes.

S&F



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by theRhenn
 


First line mentions mourning and I noticed you glossed over that. How was this guy in mourning.

Second line doesn't fit anything whatsoever.

Third line you will need to explain how you got poison and plane out of that since It seems like a huge stretch. You need to show how it was translated.

Fourth line is the only one that apply's in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by AnotherYOU


The great old enemy mourning dies of poison,
The sovereigns subjugated in infinite numbers:
Stones raining, hidden under the fleece,
Through death articles are cited in vain.




This nonsense can be translated to mean ANYTHING you wish it to mean.

MANY MANY people have died from being poisoned on this planet.

If the predictions were worth a DAMN, they would actually be SPECIFIC instead of so GENERAL that it could mean ANYTHING you want it to mean.

[color=gold]To me it means that the Scrooge of Christmas drank poison in front of Santa's elves and immediately what followed was a meteorite shower upon a fleece clothing shop that the Santa's elves were working at.

That sounds MUCH more realistic to be honest.


C'mon

edit on 3-7-2011 by pplrnuts because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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gets fairly tenuous sure, but I have to give you effort for creativity and investigation.

well done.

how did you come up with this?



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by theRhenn
 


First line mentions mourning and I noticed you glossed over that. How was this guy in mourning.

Second line doesn't fit anything whatsoever.

Third line you will need to explain how you got poison and plane out of that since It seems like a huge stretch. You need to show how it was translated.

Fourth line is the only one that apply's in my opinion.


Because im not 100% sure myself, the word "dueil" is used for mourning yes, but in old french it was used for Duel.

my bad for using some random site's translation of the quatrain, when i read the quatrain from my book, i read it in the old duel meaning of the word

wich would translate to "the old defiant enemy"

Second line i agree, i had a hard time understanding this one, i dont really understand the meaning of the infinite mentioned here, but when i read subdued sovereigns, or monarchs who do not rule, i cant help but to think of england.

third line

Pierre=Stone, Pierre Curie as in the man who discovered this radioactive particle, wich is mainly found as greyish type metal, but more commonly used as a powder. hence the rocks or stones falling, powder is made of microscopic stones.

it was a stretch yes, but it does make sense, i think i already explained well enough why would nostradamus compare an airplane to the tale of the golden fleece.

let's say for a second nostradamus did have visions, how would his visions appear? i imagine him sort of flying over the event and getting images and flashes of the situation, so for him to see an airplane i would imagine it would be during flight, and since most of the flight routes go above the clouds, you get an airplane with the sun reflecting on it(of wich im sure i don't need to pull up pictures).

now if nostradamus says rocks rained under the fleece, must mean the fleece was above.

now when i add to that that most usages of the word toison by nostradamus refer to the toison d'or or golden fleece wich happens to be a mythical animal that happens to fly and has a shinny golden fleece...

can you now see why i could picture it as being a plane flying above the clouds...?


the first and fourth lines are what brought me to compare the quatrain to the event, the second line im doubtfull of the true meaning, but cmon, when i researched litvinenko's death further, it just seemed too bizarre and coincidental that nostradamus not only possibily mentioned the substance but also named the guy who discovered it by name

PIERRE Curie


edit on 3/7/11 by AnotherYOU because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/7/11 by AnotherYOU because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by Beavers
 


i've had this one "stored" for years, back when this whole deal happened i remember that i was reading the quatrains, and i had the tv as background noise, they were speaking about the litvinenko case, and the journalist ended the piece with a sort of snide remark about how the letter and article by litvinenko were made in vain due to all the political pressure the kremlin had already made on the english to bury the case.
since there were bigger interests for england in maintaining a good relationship with russia.

i instantly remembered the "Par mort articles en vain sont alleguez" line, i had read minutes before, i went through the pages trying to find the quatrain again.

when i found it and read that the first lines mentions a great old and defiant enemy dying of poison, i just had a braingasm.

even if it ends up as being bogus, these kind of things always lead me to some nice studies and researches.

i was really unsure wether to post it here, but i decided to, since this is ATS

even when one fails, you always learn something new.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:36 AM
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Well I appreciate your effort but even you have to admit this is far from a slam dunk.

I also don't think half the people on here know who this guy is were talking about so applying a quatrain to him is kind of silly.

Good post though and good work.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by kro32
 


hence why i posted this as an interpretation and not as definite proof.

but yes you are right, i obviously searched ATS for Litvinenko threads and did notice the lack of exposure and interest this case seemed to get here.

wich is seriously weird, since it's one of the top spy vs spy conspiracies of our time, as far as im concerned.

I don't know what secrets the guy had, but it had to be important, when you want to poison someone you just do it so they die.

poisoning by polonium 210 wich is like a tiny nuclear weapon, they didn't just want him dead, they wanted him to suffer and then only die.

wich also raises the question, now who exactly can get a hold of a highly radioactive substance to poison someone?

this one goes high up in the chain, only governments would have access to something like this.


but i guess the russian pressure worked so well, not even ATS got to the bottom of the case.


and thank you for reading


edit on 3/7/11 by AnotherYOU because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by AnotherYOU
 


I kind of assumed it would be along those lines...

yeah nice find man



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Hello, AnotherYOU- it's very brave of you to try to tackle Nostradamus; I've done it for years- a hobby of mine.

The Quatrains are written in a mixture of Old Provencal French, Latin & Greek for the most part, with a sprinkling of other languages as well. Michel de Notredame was a doctor by trade, as well as an alchemist & astrologer. He's best known as a prophet.

It helps to be up on the literature of his time & the two centuries before him as well- there are figures of speech used only in those three hundred years or so that show up repeatedly in his work. Very hard to interpret the prophecies without knowing them.

I got my start with Erika Cheetham's books- she was an Oxford educated historian who went through all of the prophecies & matched them with past history in order to rule those which had already happened out. Nostradamus is considered an unreliable prophet by some because so many of his prophecies have not yet come true.

A knowledge of astrology comes in handy, too- the astrological references in Nostradamus' work can often give dates to look for. Dozens of the quatrains have astrological dates that appear after the year 2000- several decade's worth. I've never been able to figure out why some researchers think the timeline ends with the Millenium, or even projects into the third Millenium & beyond.

Ms. Cheetham didn't know how to interpret 2:47 & said so in her book. I think you made a good stab at it. It helps to be able to sit down & translate every quatrain oneself because there are so few good translations to be had.

My studies into the prophecies have revealed not one, but three world wars; the fall of the Roman Catholic Church & a new church rising from its ashes; & numerous other Apocalyptic events. Scary stuff. Nostradamus published his quatrains in the hopes that people would somehow find a way to prevent all of these terrible things from happening.

To those who think this man's work is a crock- well, Noah's fellow human beings thought he was a crackpot, too, while he was building the Ark- & then the Deluge happened. The remains of the Ark exist in Turkey. Look it up on YouTube. If you'd rather just debunk, simply put all of this out of your mind- it's not as if anyone can do anything about it, anyway!

AnotherYOU- I hope you continue your studies in this subject. Who knows what you might find? -CincyFreedom



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by CincyFreedom
 


Thank you, and yes it's quite the mental voyage to tackle the translations and expressions.

i have a book written in the original french, and i have to say the way i do this, i have to dissect it word for word expression for expression, and totally disregard pretty much all available translations to date.

like for example here, in this quatrain the word dueil is usually translated to mourning, wich doesnt make sense here, but the old french version meaning duel, or defiance totally fits the prediction.

i might research some more quatrains in time

for now ill take confort in knowing that this one interpretation while not 100% accurate, does lead the way into a fresh outlook on the man's work.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Great work, I'm a big follower of Nostradamus prophecies/predictions and you seem to make some VERY interesting correlations between the 2!



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by AnotherYOU
 

You're welcome, AnotherYOU. You're doing it right, with your approach to translation. Sometimes the only way to get something done right is to do it yourself! There is one verse, in another quatrain (I can't think of which one off the top of my head) that uses the expression "le pierre en l'arbe"- literally, "the stone in the tree". Once one learns that it's an old French gambler's expression meaning "I'm about to beat you at this game", the verse takes on an entirely different meaning! The expression comes from how someone steals fruit from an orchard by throwing stones, thereby getting what they're after. -CincyFreedom



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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can anyone tell me the next even that will match ?

no ?

why not ?



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by syrinx high priest
 


Give me time to go & watch the fireworks, & I'll give you one. Cincinnati has the biggest & best shows in the country & I'm not going to miss today's! CincyFreedom

P.S. Yes, there is life aside from the internet!



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by CincyFreedom
reply to post by syrinx high priest
 


Give me time to go & watch the fireworks, & I'll give you one. Cincinnati has the biggest & best shows in the country & I'm not going to miss today's! CincyFreedom

P.S. Yes, there is life aside from the internet!


hey, if you are right, and become famous, throw me a bone !!!



posted on Jul, 5 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by syrinx high priest
 


Hello, Syrinx- it was hard to pick just one, but how about this prophecy of our present time, #8:28:

Les simulachres d'or et d'argent enflez
Qu'apres le rapt au lac surent gettez
Au descouvert estaincts tous et troublez,
Au marbre escript prescripts intergetez

The facsimiles of gold & silver inflated
Which afterward are raped & milked until surely gutted
The discovery taints & troubles all
Even script & bonds written in stone will be gutted by it

Nearly 500 years ago Nostradamus could see today's economy.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by CincyFreedom
 


chillingly accurate!

this is wonderful stuff.

what are everyone's thoughts on the 'new book' found recently? was it a hoax?

i heard talk about libya taking out most of italy and southern france too... anything on that?




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