The Secrets of Masonry

reply to post by Profane22

There are secrets, but not everything is a secret. We'll be oPen about almost everything.

Originally posted by Profane22

If you're trying to get me discuss secrets from any of the bodies I will not

Ok, that's all I needed to hear, at least from you... Networkdude let on otherwise...

This was a prime example of some of the "secrets" as masons see them. The 31st degree was something I had never heard about anywhere. Nobody on ATS discussed it before and It wasn't something out in the open. I took an oath not to discuss the "secrets" of masonry outside of masons of that degree. Usually any and all of the information can be found just by Google, and in this case, it probably can that way. But you wouldn't even know there was something interesting in the 31st degree had I not mentioned it. You would not have wanted to know anything about it before you read this thread. If I am asked a question that I think the answer might violate my oath, I will tell you I cannot answer that directly, you can look elsewhere, or I might tell you that if you ever think you might want to join, it's best if you find that answer out the right way. That way, it's meaning will have the exact impact it's meant to.

If someone is coming close they could correct him

Getting "close" to what exactly...?! I thought there were no "secrets"? Why would anyone be afraid to give away these "secrets" if there aren't any, or "they aren't a big deal"...? hmmm...

The whole point of an initiate not knowing the "secrets" before he enters masonry has everything to do with how and why they are taught. If you were reading the most amazing detective book you had ever read, and you were 3/4 of the way through it, and I popped up and said, Jones did it! That would piss you off. It would be wrong, and it would ruin the rest of the book for you.

My questions still stand to any other masons who would like to prove to me there are "no secrets"...

edit on 9-7-2011 by Profane22 because: your mom

what do you want to know?

reply to post by Profane22


I would like to answer some of your questions.

So, who is the "horned" god that represents the Ram...? I've seen a few theories...
Which horned god?

What does 666 really mean...?
It could mean anything. It depends on what meaning people give on to it, including other symbols.

Why do most higher level masons become islamic red hats?
You mean the fez?

What is the difference between and upright and downward pointing pentagrams?
Again it has no fixed meaning. For Pythagoreans it meant health for example. This link gives another example. www.angelfire.com...

Who was Mithras?
The religion or cult began around 4000 years ago in Persia, where its founder was known as Mithra. It spread eastwards to India and China. In India, the god was known as Mitra and was a solar deity, lord of heavenly light and guardian of the truth. In Persia, Mithra (meaning "love", "sun" and "friend") was a protector deity and god of light, with "Mithra" often being used a synonym for the sun.

What ever happened to Adam and Eve?
They learnt about freewill.

Is it possible the bible (Babel) was ever paganized and what about it was?
The Bible isn't a single book, but multiple books rolled into one, with teachings, stories etc mistranslated, distorted, written and rewritten so much so that it contradicts itself.

Who was "Captian Morgan"?
The Freemason with a big mouth who broke his oaths.

What does the metaphorical "gold" in alcehemy stand for?
Like how goldsmiths purify gold, in alchemy you purify your body and soul, in order to become 'one'.

Have you ever had the chance to spit on the cross while you where being tested for a degree?
Can't answer that one, but the Knights Templar did, proudly.

What does the word "Genesis" actually mean?
origin

What does the gnostic cross represent?
The Coptic ankh cross, also known as the Gnostic cross, has its origin in the Egyptian Ankh and is the pre Coptic cross of the early Christian gnostic movement. It means "eternal life."

Most people think of the "Devil" or "Satan" as some dumb, dark entity who does nothing but send his drones to scare people... If you were him, how would you "deceiveth the whole world"...?
Satan is not evil, the name means adversary. Evil is caused by people as they have freewill but don't want to accept their problems and who better than someone who can'y defend themselves!

Originally posted by naeem11111
Have you ever had the chance to spit on the cross while you where being tested for a degree?
Can't answer that one, but the Knights Templar did, proudly.

Do you really believe that, or is it possible that spitting on the cross is just another lie Phillip the Fair created to slander the name and history of the Templars? That story has made it's way into anti-masonry as well. I think it's told that once you get to the "higher levels" that kind of stuff happens. It's just a shame there is never anyone who has attained these "higher levels" who can clarify that.

reply to post by network dude


Why not? The first decade of the organisation had no recruits and were busy excavating Solomon's temple, where they carried off objects alongside the teachings of the Hebrew and their G-d, to Scotland. If they were "true" Christians where blind faith alone in Jesus will "save" you, why have an interest in the temple? They knew Christianity was a joke and plagarised lie, when the group was first formed whilst on the way to the Holy Land, so does the Pope, but we all have a part to play on stage for the masses! They weren't just spitting but cursing the cross, urinating and defecating!

You seemed offended as I gave out a negative view of the Knights Templar. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them but the reason it ended was clearly an organisation that grew powerful rapidly and being a smaller organsation that was obviously overtaking the larger one that it was part of, it definately was a worrying problem for the Pope!

reply to post by naeem11111


no, not offended, I just heard it a different way. I don't think the Knights would disgrace the cross being Christians themselves. It just seems to fit much better that of some of the outlandish claims can be attributed by a King who way trying to lie to paint a group negative, would explain those stories much better. But truth is often stranger than fiction.

Originally posted by Profane22
as a person... as a humanist... what does your HEART tell you...?

That our "secrets" would be of no significance to non-Masons, and we as such bear no responsibility to be talebearers.

Alright networkdude, why aren't you sure if you can get into it...? Funny, I've been reading some posts by masons who threaten other members when they are dangerously close to revealing something.

I'd like to see them.

So, who is the "horned" god that represents the Ram...? I've seen a few theories...

No idea either of its identity or its relationship to Freemasonry.

What does 666 really mean...?

Personally, I think it's Gematriac code for the emperor Diocletian.

Why do most higher level masons become islamic red hats?

A) There are no "higher-level" Masons, at least not in the way you're thinking. There is no higher degree than the third, and no office higher than Grand Master, which can be held by any third degree Mason (and only gives on authority over a specific jurisdiction.

B) I'm certain you mean the fez. While it is Arabic in origin, there is nothing necessarily Islamic about the fez.

What is the order of the "real" days of the week?

Sunday, then Monday-Friday, then Saturday. Sunday is traditionally the beginning of the week.

What is the difference between and upright and downward pointing pentagrams?

Nothing. Anything you hear otherwise was made up of whole cloth by Eliphas Levi.

What does Osiris have to do with Sirius?

I'm sure they have some relation in comparative mythology, but the issue is of no relation to Freemasonry.

Who is Jah Bul On and what do each of his vowels represent?

From Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?:

Jah.--This could be a name of God used in Psalm 68:4, "Extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him."

Bel.-- Rev. Ankerberg and Dr. Weldon accuse Freemasonry of paganism because some Masons tried to equate this syllable with the word baal. Although Baal was the name of a Phoenician deity, it is also a Hebrew word meaning "lord" or "master," and when it forms part of a name it can be used to identify Jehovah. A son of David, for example, is called both Eliada, "God Knows" (2 Samuel 5:16), and Beeliada, "Baal knows" (1 Chronicles 14:7).

Another man, who was a friend of David, was named Bealiah (1 Chronicles 12:5), meaning "Jehovah is Baal" or "Jehovah is Lord." After winning a victory over the Philistines, David named the location Baal-Perazim (2 Samuel 5:20; 1 Chronicles 14:11), which means, "Lord of breaches."

On.--This Hebrew word means "force" or "power."

A more meaningful application is found in the Septuagint, an ancient Greek version of the Old Testament, wherein God announced Himself to Moses with the words ego eimi ho On, "I am the Being" (Exodus 3:14).

The words ho On mean "The Being," "The Eternal" or "The I AM." In the Greek New Testament the words ho On appear in Revelation 1:4, signifying "the One who is."

Based on the above, possible meanings for Jabulon include "Jehovah, powerful Lord" or "Jehovah, the Lord, the I AM." Some English Royal Arch rituals suggested the syllables meant "Lord in Heaven, the Father of All," while some American rituals noted that the vowels in Jah-Bel-On, added to the four letters which spell God's name in Hebrew (YHWH or JHVH: yud, heh, vaw, heh), yielded the English pronunciation "Jehovah," much as the vowels in the Hebrew word adonai were combined with the four consonants to produce "Jahovah."

Unable to find any sensible meaning in such speculations other Grand Chapters eliminated the "words" altogether.

Jahbulon/Jabulon is not an entity; rather, it is a "word" explanatory of God.

Who was Mithras?

A mythical messiah with some demographic similarity to Christ. Why?

What ever happened to Adam and Eve?

Good question.

Is it possible the bible (Babel) was ever paganized and what about it was?

A) That's really bad linguistics; Babel is Hebrew, Bible is Greek.

B) A better possibility (though I don't believe it either) is that Christianity is pagan in origin.

Who was "Captian Morgan"?

A scoundrel of the first order. Morgan pretended to be a Mason in order to fool his local lodge into granting him membership and frequent use of the relief funds. Once discovered and expelled, he sought revenge by publishing a pastiche of earlier Masonic exposés to defame the fraternity. Outraged, a few Masons from his "lodge" bailed him out of jail (where he was held on unrelated charges) and became the last people to see him again. Though his exact fate is unknown, the contemporary anti-Masonic movement made use of an unidentifiable corpse found in the river and declared Morgan a martyr of the movement.

What does the metaphorical "gold" in alcehemy stand for?

The betterment of man.

Have you ever had the chance to spit on the cross while you where being tested for a degree?

No. This is a favorite myth of fundamentalist Protestant anti-Masons, taken from an admittedly false accusation against the Knights Templar by a king who owed them money and revived by the Taxil hoax.

When does the masons calender actually begin?

Different jurisdictions use different years. Florida adds 4000 years to the current date, while others use the Hebrew calendar.

What does the word "Genesis" actually mean?

It's Greek for "origin".

What does the gnostic cross represent?

You'll have to ask a Gnostic.

Have you ever been told the meaning of something at a lower level only for it to change during the higher levels?

Once again, there are no "higher levels". Appendant degree systems do not change the meanings of the associated symbols but elaborate on them. There's also no one meaning of any symbol; they change drastically from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Again from Is It True...?

For example, in much of the United States the trowel is symbolically used for "spreading the cement of brotherly love and affection," while in the Grand National Lodge of Germany it is used to "figuratively wall up and cement cracks and tears in your heart against the assaults of the vices."

What is "FOX" in gematria?

What does 22 mean in numerology?

Neither of these questions has any direct relation to Freemasonry.

Now, when I joined "Amway" a few years ago, we got tapes, books, etc... with quotes to defend ourselves...

That's because Amway's a cult.

is this true in masonry?

Here in Florida, three twelve-page booklets explain each of the degrees, then a fourth one runs you through organizational minutiae. Though works have obviously been written which address the accusations against Freemasonry, I've never heard of them being given to Freemasons.

You guys seem to all have the same prefab answers...

Earlier in this thread you were falling over yourself to point out the difference between the dude and KSig's thoughts on discretion. Now we "all have the same prefab answers".

I see a ton of variance in the details of our answers, actually. I've even been corrected by Masonic Light when I gave a wrong answer based on a misreading of Eliphas Levi.

Most people think of the "Devil" or "Satan" as some dumb, dark entity who does nothing but send his drones to scare people... If you were him, how would you "deceiveth the whole world"...?

I'd put a banking system in place which preys upon the poor, ingrain it so deeply within government that it simultaneously adopts the authority of the law and escapes accountability from it, donate openly to the political parties on both sides to keep them friendly to its agenda, and convince everyone to look for the bogeyman with the apron on.

reply to post by naeem11111

What does the gnostic cross represent? The Coptic ankh cross, also known as the Gnostic cross, has its origin in the Egyptian Ankh and is the pre Coptic cross of the early Christian gnostic movement. It means "eternal life."

This is a good example of levels of understanding. Sure it means eternal life, but what is that? Just a concept? Another level of understanding is that it is a representation of energy flow. That is why "knowing" the "secrets" of the Masons or any other esoteric group doesn't do a whole lot of good without other levels of understanding. There is a lot of information in the "secrets" regarding sacred geometry and energies that are "hidden" in the stories and rituals. There are always multiple levels of understanding. Here is one regarding the ankh.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f80c2f158969.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6fa2c5684b65.jpg[/atsimg]

In the three views above, you can see how the rotation of energy either around the body, as in (a), around a circle, as in (b), or in a sine wave, as in (c), all complete themselves in five steps.

The fifth or heart chakra is the first chakra that completes itself and has the energies of both front-to-back and left-to-right. If you could see these energies — and the Egyptians could — from above the head, as in
(a), at left, they would appear as this symbol. It needs to be understood that these are actual energy lines around the body coming from the fifth chakra. If you were to see these energies from the front view of a human, they would appear as in
(b) at left. In the center of the cross there is a hidden energy line coming straight off the page and also moving in the opposite direction away from the reader. Notice that both of the above examples are Christian symbols that come from the heart chakra. However, if you could see the same energies from the side of a human being, they would appear different than you would expect. There is another energy-flow ''tube'' there (in Chinese medicine it's called a ''meridian'') that the Egyptians discovered long ago. It looks like
(c). I find it very interesting that the Christians must have understood what we are talking about here, for on the robes of many Christian priests, at certain times of the year that are usually associated with resurrection, you will see the following symbol. This symbol
(d) shows all three views — the top, front, and side simultaneously. I believe the Christians omitted the complete loop of the ankh so that they would not directly show a connection with the old Egyptian religion, since they were breaking away from that tradition. But it is obvious that they knew.
The energy seems to wrap around back into the rod along the curve of the ankh, moving downward as it returns, thereby sustaining the energy.

www.spiritofmaat.com...

In this he calls the heart chakra #5, (in some levels of understanding there is a lower heart chakra #4 and a higher heart chakra #5) in other systems heart is considered #4 and throat is #5. There are many layers of understanding both in regards to chakra systems as well as the meaning of the ankh, as well as everything else, this is but one.

Quick note - I'm not a Jesus freak and even as a young kid, knew there was a lot wrong with the logic of the Bible but I'm not getting into semantics about that now. I just tried to take what was good out of it and continue my search for knowledge. I have since studied Christian Gnosis, Hermetics, Solomons keys (Greater and lesser),symbology, and most mythologies and some religions. I have an IMMENSE quest for knowledge I cannot quench... but I only take what resonates in each philosophy. I have even thought about joining a lodge, but not only wasn't I aware of one locally until lately, something in my guts tells me not too... I do have a great respect for most masons as they are just guys trying to be better people.

Naeem11111 - I'm very aware both "satan" and "lucifer" are "generic" terms, and multiple entities have both been labled these... However, throughout my studies there are very negative entities that refer to themselve(s) as both of these. Specifically Enki, who, was the "savior" of mankind in Sumerian myths, only to be referred to by modern "spiritual satanists" and Lucifer/Satan (joyofsatan.com). Now, maybe this is correct and there is nothing to fear from any beings labeld Lucifer or Satan.... but I did notice, for his protection, you need to sign a contract with your name in blood. What kind of benevolent being needs your signiture in blood?! None... You should also read quotes from the Al Jilwah... interesting...

Onthelevel -

I'd like to see them.

Well, considering the one of the specifically threads I'm referring to, was before I signed up, I have no clue under what heading it is now... I just remember the specific mason was told by another mason friend of a higher degree than him that something was going down soon... This particular mason wasn't told details, but felt he should tell his fellow man. Something I personally respected...

No idea either of its identity or its relationship to Freemasonry.

Interesting, since some of what I hear studied in masonry involves origins of man and the particular "dieties" involved in mythology (alot of masons on threads seem to like the Sumerian gods, especially Enki and Enlil). Now this is a subject I've studied myself in Sitchins work (a Freemason) and it gets quite confusing, but the mythologies obviously line up outside of a few details here and there.

For instance, (and forgive me if I'm wrong about some of these if this is info you're privy too) originally, I though Enki and Enlil = Osiris and Set and that may be true, but the more I looked into it, some equate the Sumerian Marduk to Zeus, who is also Deus, Dios, Deus Pater, Jupiter, Iove, Jove, Jehova, and Jubulon, Horus, Ra, Amen Ra, etc... which some equal him with Baal and a few others... the reason I asked about the "ram" is Zeus usually was equated with the Ram horned god. All or most these dieties have been associated with the sun... as has Osiris, etc...

Lets take Osiris, (possibly some association with the Sirius star and the Dogon) "the original Lucifer" as I've heard masons call him and Mithra. I've also heard Osiris is associated with Adam, who was the Lucifer who fell from heaven. Funny how one story has Set killing Osiris, one has Horus, and one the "original" Isis, who I'm assuming to be Lillith, while the second Isis looks for his scattered remains (souls).

Which brings me to symbology... and as Confucius said, "signs and symbols" rule the world... So, you're a mason... your driving down the road in your Dodge Ram, listening to your Sirius radio and you look inside the Ram logo and see the Baphomet head within the Rams head. You look at the Citgo logo and see the triangle, you look at the Marathon sign and see the "M", you look at most banking logos and see triangles,etc... you look at the Chrystler symbol and see the Zoraster symbology... Honda, Mercury, Polaris, Head, Holiday Inn, FOX, NBC, CBS, BP, Holiday, DQ, etc, etc, etc.......... How many logos have a liberty symbol? the torch? the triangle? the mountains? the crescent moons? How many a sun symbol? More than you'd probably care to admit. All very specific symbolism tied into masonry, and it's in most corporate logos... As a mason, tell me you guys haven't noticed these...?

Personally, I think it's Gematriac code for the emperor Diocletian

666 is the Qaballistic number for the Sun. It's the Suns magical symbol. The triangle that represents the sun also has three 60 degree angles. The "beast" isn't a man... it's a movement... a group, a set of symbols, and the organizations behind them, and thier worship of (m)AMMON Ra, Appolyon, Lucifer... pagan sun worship... ancestor worship, the babylon mystery cult. Is that masonry...? I don't know, but they are, or at least sects of them are associated with it.

Sunday, then Monday-Friday, then Saturday. Sunday is traditionally the beginning of the week.

Well, I appologize if I assumed you guys studied the mystical magical secrets of Solomon... as most former masons, occultists, and your own symbology alludes to. I know the Rosicrucians do... but the days of the week were changed sometime during the Roman period I believe. And it's been awhile since I've read Solomons Key, but the normal order of the days should be ... Saturday, Saturn; Thursday, Jupiter; Tuesday, Mars; Sunday, the Sun; Friday, Venus; Wednesday, Mercury: and Monday, the Moon. So I believe the Sunday people worship on is actually Saturday. Now, why was this done?

Nothing. Anything you hear otherwise was made up of whole cloth by Eliphas Levi.

I didn't study Eliphas Levi... however, I did study Gnosis and the meaning I was given was upright wards off evil while downward invites it. The more I study it though, the more both are menevolent.

A) That's really bad linguistics; Babel is Hebrew, Bible is Greek.

Interesting... I recently read masons are highly involved in the creation of the Queens English. You've never noticed Evil=Live, GOoD vs dEVIL, or EVEil, Be-Lie-Eve, Genesis (genes of isis), Gnosis (know isis), bible/babel, Israel (ISIS RA EL) ,man... I could go on all day... but look it up for yourself... coincidence? Doubt it.

How about Jesus (He-Zeus, or J-isis?)...? Which brings me to another point. There are sects of masonry that equal Jesus with someone perverse like Yaldaboath... is it possible? Sure... but what makes the Jesus story interesting is that most people don't believe his name was even Jesus. Yeshua? Immanuel? Sananda? Who knows? The fact that the bible has been paganized and so has his name and also his equation with Mithra/Osisris/etc, etc... makes me think it was done on purpose by people who didn't want you to know who he really was and what he really taught. They turned it into a system of control and sun worship, leaving bits and pieces of original teachings there... just enough to vibrate truth with your soul. Instead of looking within, your looking at symbols of a dead messiah and drinking his "blood". One day, people would realize the church was fake and turn away ( I always felt the Catholic church was evil anyways). So, who are the pagans that did this and when... well, possibly the Roman/pagan emperor Constantine at the council of Nice-EA. Funny he left out all of the Spiritual Gnostic texts...

A scoundrel of the first order. Morgan pretended to be a Mason in order to fool his local lodge into granting him membership and frequent use of the relief funds. Once discovered and expelled, he sought revenge by publishing a pastiche of earlier Masonic exposés to defame the fraternity. Outraged, a few Masons from his "lodge" bailed him out of jail (where he was held on unrelated charges) and became the last people to see him again. Though his exact fate is unknown, the contemporary anti-Masonic movement made use of an unidentifiable corpse found in the river and declared Morgan a martyr of the movement.

Coincidence...? There are none... was he the only one? I doubt it...

The betterment of man.

Sure... as Christian Gnosis would have it... raising the kundalini by practicing "white tantra". There is another way as it teaches... of lowering the kundalini (devils tail) by the use of "moons blood". Funny, I just saw a video of a masonic ritual of drinking the "goats blood"... Crowley practiced these rituals... as i understand it, the masons are supposed to raise the kundalini the "33" degrees up the spine... not quite sure they are practicing the proper way of doing it anymore if they teach this at all.

You'll have to ask a Gnostic.

Gnostic cross represents the sun and it's path around the zodiac. Prescesion of the equinox. The red cross that you often see in masonry represents this. The Nazis wear the black version (Black sun).

By "higher" level, I meant the initiate as opposed to a 15th degree...

Neither of these questions has any direct relation to Freemasonry.

Masons as I understood it study Pythagoras, the Qabala, Numerology, and Sacred Geometry... thier symbols are rank with it... my bad. Incase you were wondering, FOX in gematria is 666. Again, how many companies use it?

That's because Amway's a cult.

Learned that the hard way... I guess there's good meaning to "pyramid scheme".

What would I do if I was "Satan"...? Well, first I'd get people to worship me thinking I was benevolent, then create a "duality"... a system where no matter which way you went, it would lead to me. I'd have my worshippers infultrate any present religions (RA-Legions! haha...) and then have them start multiple new ones. I'd make make sure some people didn't even think I existed. I'd create a "good" and "bad" system of religion, and magic, where my followers could use it for gain, starting huge monetary systems, where all the money flowed upwards to my highest initiates, while all the lower followers didn't even know who they were worshipping. I'd have them create systems to keep people deaf, dumb and blind... sports entertainment, musical entertainment, movies, etc, etc... I'd have the weak ignorant people in my churches on thier knees in front of me thinking they are praying to a benevolent god and others using my "white" magic spells to temporarily ward off my demons. Of course, they'd eat this up thinking they are doing good deeds! Most of them would unknowingly fall into greed and lust, forgetting any true God of love that existed as I would be the one they thought of as the "light". I'd have them confuse mythologies and religions so no one could figure out who I was. My secret followers would use a system, where on thier way up, depending upon thier choices while being tested, would or would not receive "certain" information. Some could go all the way up and think they are working for a good god. Others would know the truth and they'd have the most power.

But, that's just me...

Have any of you ever read "Behold a pale horse" by William Cooper... interesting and a book every mason should read. Even if 10% of the stuff he's saying is true, you'll want to throw up.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Most people think of the "Devil" or "Satan" as some dumb, dark entity who does nothing but send his drones to scare people... If you were him, how would you "deceiveth the whole world"...?

I'd put a banking system in place which preys upon the poor, ingrain it so deeply within government that it simultaneously adopts the authority of the law and escapes accountability from it, donate openly to the political parties on both sides to keep them friendly to its agenda, and convince everyone to look for the bogeyman with the apron on.

edit on 9-7-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: minor correction

This should be on the ATS header for all to see.
More truth there than can be explained.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Most people think of the "Devil" or "Satan" as some dumb, dark entity who does nothing but send his drones to scare people... If you were him, how would you "deceiveth the whole world"...?

I'd put a banking system in place which preys upon the poor, ingrain it so deeply within government that it simultaneously adopts the authority of the law and escapes accountability from it, donate openly to the political parties on both sides to keep them friendly to its agenda, and convince everyone to look for the bogeyman with the apron on.

edit on 9-7-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: minor correction

This should be on the ATS header for all to see.
More truth there than can be explained.

You know, I've often asked if masonry has an enemy... usually to no avail. This hints that you guys aren't fans of the Rothschilds I'm guessing (good, me neither). They themselves have often been associated with masonry though, and if they aren't, I have to question how they originally pulled this off in the U.S. under mason watch...? The U.S. government is and always has been full of masons. Makes me wonder if there are very different lodges which people like that are apart of...

Someone put a nice little hand signal show on wiki together of all the hand signals leaders have used through the ages... both masons and non... and some on opposite sides of conflicts. One of my favorites is the hidden hand signal, used by some of the most perverse people out there including the Rothschilds and George Washington... hmmm...

Here's a couple links to the one of the many sites alluding to some of the hand signals and corporate logos I was alluding too...

wikicompany.org/wiki/911:Occult_symbolism_XVI

wikicompany.org/wiki/911:Occult_symbolism_XVI

So the world leaders (the masons so often claim to groom) seem to be playing both sides of the duality...?

reply to post by Profane22


going to freemasonrywatch to learn about masonry is like going to the KKK grand master and asking him for an unbiased opinion or Jessie Jackson. (hint, there is a predetermined outcome already in place)

Masons are just men. Like you or anybody else. Some are carpet cleaners, some are plumbers, electricians, carpenters, just about any job you can imagine. A small percentage of us are actually "elite". I would guess a bit larger percentage than the population as a whole simply because the caliber of man who seeks masonry in the first place, but still a small percentage.

We don't like being controlled by the system anymore than you do.

Originally posted by Profane22
So the world leaders (the masons so often claim to groom) seem to be playing both sides of the duality...?

Just curious, can you name anyone who's actually a "world leader" today who's also a Mason?

I don't go to "freemasonrywatch" or whatever.... I actually try to stay away from any side that's too biased. Like I said, I study alot of the same things and more that masons do.. At this point in my path, some of the things I've learned on my own, some from current and former masons themselves... I feel there is a bigger picture going on... the "duality" if you will. One where there are masons on both sides... some of them doing some pretty dark stuff. Am I right about everything? No. I haven't joined any secret groups so I'm left to study scraps left to the "profane" public... you know the ones "in the dark".

It's easy to say "they/you arent'/weren't trained up through masonry, so you/they don't know what were talking about". Not only right off the bat is there a "better than" mentality most masons get, as I have heard the way many talk, but that doesn't mean everyone is ignorant. I refuse to join a secret society where I am apart of keeping secrets from my fellow man. It's not right. Whether you guys are doing "good" work or not. I don't care if your the secret club trying to save us from the greys or the Rothschilds. In my studies there are masons working with the greys and the rothschilds. Wasn't it Eisenhower (mason) who sold out his own race to the greys for technology? Have you ever heard of Phil Schneider? Look him up and he's not the only one.

Which brings me to my next point. Since you're brought up and trained in masonry, I imagine your constantly reading and working on texts from masons. How do you know it's not a system set up to decieve? How do you know the masons writing the books weren't decieved or they are lying about things here or there themselves? The fact is... you don't! No matter what any of you can say.

Wasn't it Thoth/Mercury/Hermes who created a writing system and said something like "By creating writing, man will always look outwards and never remember himself (or his soul)"? So then I look at our society... a LOT of outer stimulation to dumb down the public, so much in fact it's sickening. Then I go back to who built our country...? Who's ran this country since the begining? Who are 90% of the Presidents? Who makes the world leaders? Who owns these companies...? Most of them have masonic symbolism in thier logos... You only have to look to Hollywood and see people (Gaga) doing the "one-eye" (Ra) symbolism... the "lightning bolts" painted on her face... the "sun" signs and symbols everywhere... it's not easy to pass up. I just can't believe as masons you guys haven't noticed all of this yourselves. Now, there are a few lodges who have a gold statue of "Mercury" on top of thier lodge... interesting...

Which brings me to subliminal messages... Have any of you heard of "sex" and "death"? Now apparently it's used in commercials and posters because "they are the two most important things on a persons mind". Funny, while that may be true, I may know deeper and darker secrets behind why those are used. How many times have you guys noticed "Osiris' phallus", or the "woman in the red dress"...? Or just plain fear..?

This guy has some great videos on this subject : www.youtube.com/user/Realityintruth#p/a

It's left brain vs right brain, Agartha vs Shamballa, Logic vs Faith. Science vs Religion, etc, etc.. the "duality". But I guess religion has been infultrated long ago. You only need to look at the last two popes wearing the templar sign (gnostic cross)... not that the Catholic Church was good to begin with. But some of you were so pumped that the pope APOLLOgized to the masons a few years ago. Coincidence...? No. but I guess you haven't noticed the symbology.

Which brings me to the Templars. Legend has it they had info on the church. They could've stomped it out right there and then... but they didn't... They apparently grew rich with bribes. The fact that they could've ended it right there and didn't makes me question the movement. They lost all respect from me personally. But, the false duality of the "struggle"continues today.

You can't deny the government is full of masons... William Cooper (who I mentioed) was a Naval intelligence officer, who had clearance of Top Secret info. He was Demolay, not a mason, but that is illrelevant. He was surrounded by masons in the government who were up doing some crappy things. Once out, he had friends infultrate and get to the highest levels of Freemasonry. He wrote a book about it and he was murdered... as was Phil Schnieder... interesting...

That being said, I know alot of people in masonry are good and I respect those of you really fighting for us... I hope you end up being the good guys and can some day show all you knew to the world. But the fact is there are some sick and perverted masons out there too... Are some lodges infultrated?

If you look beyond good and evil, you kinda see it's all a game. A test for our souls... I personally like the "Hidden_Hand" thread here and it really resonated some truth with me personally. Wish I had a crack at questioning him...

Anyways, I hope you guys are doing research on not only your enemy, but yourselfs...

Namaste

Just curious, can you name anyone who's actually a "world leader" today who's also a Mason?

Well the pope does wear the Templar cross now. Obama has been caught doing masonic handshakes. Clinton was Demolay. The Bushes are tied to both Skull and Bones and masonry. Are they actual masons... idk...? Could I be wrong about some of this? Absolutely... again, I haven't joined any secret society. I just pick up scraps on my own... all that's left for us profane you know.

Though, I do like Ron Paul (out of all the crap we have to choose from), regardless of his being caught doing the "handshake".

going to freemasonrywatch to learn about masonry is like going to the KKK grand master and asking him for an unbiased opinion or Jessie Jackson. (hint, there is a predetermined outcome already in place)

Interesting comment... not only is the leader of the KKK named "Grand Master", but K is what number in the alphabet? 11.

11+11+11=....(drum roll please) 33!

Bam!!!

Wonder if that has anything to do with the "gateway" 11-11-11...? Which is 11:11 is something I've been seeing constantly, along with 22 and 33. Master numbers in numerology. But you guys don't know anything abou that... What do you think the 22 in my handle refers to?

As far as the predetermined outcome... I'm sure there is, as all religions have thier prophecies that somewhat line up. As this is all supposed to be a lesson for us apparently. We are the fallen angels and thier decendants, no?! Then we get into bloodlines and who stems from what "god", soul groups, social memory complexes, etc ,etc... Just makes you wonder... if everythings preditermined, then we have little to no choice. Funny how the "Matrix", (another masonic-laced symbolistic movie) has a lot of these similar references in it.

My mom was A-, my dad was A+. I got the RH+ line and my mothers body tried killing me a few times during development apparently. May be part of the reason I'm a Gemini and kind of balance in between the struggle.

So how does the bloodline factor fall into this and where can I learn more about it?

I have a deep care for humankind and like I said, knowledge and wisdom belongs to the world. I'm a utopist I guess... I don't think many people think like I do... unfortunately.

Oh, and a couple of points I forgot...

Speaking of your KKK analogy again Network, I think it's more than slightly exaggerated... Studying Shaws "Deception" and the Hiram Key, etc, etc... would be more like asking Jessie Jacksons actual family members about him... as oppossed to the KKK GM as you stated. I believe he was a 32 degree mason who was being initiated into the 33rd... drank the goats blood, and quit because he felt it was wrong. Since he was 32nd degree, that would've meant he would've outranked you, no...!? hmmm...

JoshNorton, your "secrets" quote has also been bugging me, by that very same logic... It's OK for a man to cheat on his wife and keep it a secret... It's OK for a father to rape his daughter... It's OK for the government to be dumping chemicals on us... It's OK for the government to be using MKUltra programming... It's OK for the government not to tell us why trillions of dollars were stolen on 9/10/01. It's OK for them not to tell us about 9/11. It's OK for there to be people so perverse, that they scare little children and drink thier blood for the chemicals before actually killing them.......

All because the Bible said it's OK to have secrets. hmmm... great logic!!! I think I'll go burn and pillage now and don't tell anyone! Luckily, we have something called balance and with that comes karma... If masons or whoever are doing perverse things, they WILL pay for it... there's no way out of it.

Don't you think if you guys are fighting someone perverse like greys or the rothschilds or whoever, wouldn't it be more clever to come out, say "this is what we know, these are the bad guys and this is what they are doing". Wouldn't you think they would dissapear? Go into a hole? Strength in numbers... I realize what you know may be controversal, but keeping secrets is equal to lying, no? Would it benefit mankind in the longrun?

Or is the mentality "you're not responsible for others"...? Then you aren't a benevolent society... even if you claim to be doing good things, sorry...

If man ever does evolve to the point of telepathy, we won't be able to keep secrets and hopefully all these secret societies will cease to exist... I can only hope to imagine...

Originally posted by Profane22
This hints that you guys aren't fans of the Rothschilds I'm guessing (good, me neither).

Some of them make very delicious wine.

Originally posted by Profane22
Oh, and a couple of points I forgot...

Speaking of your KKK analogy again Network, I think it's more than slightly exaggerated... Studying Shaws "Deception" and the Hiram Key, etc, etc... would be more like asking Jessie Jacksons actual family members about him... as oppossed to the KKK GM as you stated. I believe he was a 32 degree mason who was being initiated into the 33rd... drank the goats blood, and quit because he felt it was wrong. Since he was 32nd degree, that would've meant he would've outranked you, no...!? hmmm...

Nope, I am a 32nd degree mason in the Scottish Rite as well. I am still waiting for my first taste of Goats Blood though. I hear it makes an amazing blood sausage.

Originally posted by Profane22
Well the pope does wear the Templar cross now.

And he has upheld the Catholic postion that Masons are in a grave state of sin and may not take communion in the Catholic church.

Obama has been caught doing masonic handshakes.

But he's never been initiated as a Mason.

Clinton was Demolay.

Yes. He was.

The Bushes are tied to both Skull and Bones and masonry.

No, they're tied to Skull and Bones, but not Masonry.

Are they actual masons... idk...?

I DO know. They're not.

Could I be wrong about some of this? Absolutely... again, I haven't joined any secret society. I just pick up scraps on my own... all that's left for us profane you know.

So you still haven't listed a political leader who's actually a Mason.

Though, I do like Ron Paul (out of all the crap we have to choose from), regardless of his being caught doing the "handshake".

Paul's not a Mason, but his father was.

not only is the leader of the KKK named "Grand Master"

Actually, it's "Grand Wizard" or "Imperial Wizard" according to Wikipedia

would be more like asking Jessie Jacksons actual family members about him... as oppossed to the KKK GM as you stated. I believe he was a 32 degree mason who was being initiated into the 33rd... drank the goats blood, and quit because he felt it was wrong. Since he was 32nd degree, that would've meant he would've outranked you, no...!? hmmm...

Jackson didn't quit. He's still a member of a Prince Hall lodge, from what I understand. And I'd wager about half of the Masons on ATS are 32°. It's not that big a deal, and it's not a "rank" above any other degree or system.