DCF wants my whole family to be tested for STD's

reply to post by grey580


Or just tell them that its just part of your political belief system that you do not allow searches without a warrant and ask them to get one.

I would do that if the cops just showed up on my doorstep asking to search my home for a crime that I had no personal interest in, (if I was convinced no one was going to die because of my insisting on a warrant, that is) and I would insist they got a warrant to search my car too, if they pulled me over and I wasnt hindering the search for some child or something by doing so, just to reinforce to them that they shouldnt be pushy for stupid reasons.

But in those cases, I dont have a family member at risk or involved. I wouldnt make a political point in the middle of an investigation in which someones well being was at risk. For me, there is a time and a place to make your political points.

lawyer up

a coworker of mine had to adopt two of his grandkids because his sons girlfriend is nuts.

they have spent a fortune on lawyers, but I'm sure if they didn't they'd be worse off

with that said, being argumentative and evasive is the worst thing to do

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by grey580

 

....But in those cases, I dont have a family member at risk or involved. I wouldn't make a political point in the middle of an investigation in which someones well being was at risk. For me, there is a time and a place to make your political points.

The OP said:

Last year we had custody of my wife's 2nd niece due to the fact that her mother and grandmother were found not fit to take care of her due to being hooked on drugs. The 5yo niece was here for a couple months....

That meant the kid was in his home for 2 out of 60 months of her life AND the reason she was there was because Mom AND GRANDMA were on DRUGS!

Taking it the OP is telling the truth, testing him and his family is a shear waste of time and tax money especially since he probably has already made it very clear he was careful never to be alone with the girl.

This is not the kid "being at risk" this is an example of laziness on the part of DCF. They are hoping he tests positive and then they can scare him into pleading guilty to lesser charges.

Why the heck aren't they tracking down all of Mommy's "boyfriends" and drug pushers. The chances that good old mom traded the kid's virginity for a fix seems a heck of a lot greater than the OP having anything to do with the mess.

Sorry all the cries of:

BUT IT"S FOR THE CHILDREN!

Just proves how well TPTB have the masses trained.

You remind me of pavlov's dogs... SHAME ON YOU ATS.

If I was the OP I would not agree to testing until the more likely candidates, MOMMY and her boyfriends were ruled out. AND YES Mommy could be the transmitter.

Genital Herpes
Genital Herpes Overview

There are five types of herpesvirus. Herpes simplex-1 (HSV-1) and herpes simplex-2 (HSV-2, the most common type) are considered sexually transmitted diseases. Herpesvirus can be transmitted from a mother to her developing fetus, which may impair neurological development and can be fatal.

HSV-1 causes cold sores and fever blisters on the mouth and has been found in genital lesions as well. HSV-2, commonly called genital herpes, causes internal and external genital sores and blisters.

Herpes is a lifelong, incurable disease but can be managed with antiviral drugs and safer sex practices. The virus resides deep in nerve cells and it may never produce symptomatic disease or may actively recur throughout a person's lifetime. The latent nature of the virus contributes to its insidious spread.
Incidence and Prevalence of Genital Herpes

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 45 million people in the United States over the age of 12 are infected with HSV-2. Genital herpes is more common in women (approx. 1 out of 4) than men (approx. 1 out of 5) and more common in African Americans (46%) than Caucasians (18%)..... www.healthcommunities.com...

Just proves how well TPTB have the masses trained.

You remind me of pavlov's dogs... SHAME ON YOU ATS.

If he tests positive the DA can charge him with
sexual assault which might carry a life in prison sentence.
Even more so if he is the only one to test positive.
Since the folks in power are psychopaths it would not be
wise to expect them to use the logic presented here that
the fact he has it and was with the girl is not proof beyond
a reasonable doubt of his committing this crime.
Yeah, he should lawyer up real fast if he is innocent.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
If this story is true....the fact is: a little girl in the care of others has a serious disease that a little girl should not have. It has been requested that all involved in this little girl's life should be tested. Who the heck would not be ok with this....for the sake of the little girl???

I would see red flags for anyone who refueses testing. That is just how it goes.....

I don't see red flags here. I see dcf harrasssing people.


Get a lawyer and make them get a search warrant for your body fluids/the test. How outrageous that everyone is chastising him and saying it makes him look guilty! It does not!

Another thing, what if someone already has this disease and is 100 percent innocent?

GET A LAWYER NOW, once this agency has you in their sights you need an attorney!

This has nothing to do with his level of care/love for the child, it is now about his very freedom and his family's freedom!

Forgot to add, I am SO sorry your family is going through this, and I will keep your family in my prayers, especially your little neice.

reply to post by crimvelvet


Im not telling the OP what to do. Im telling the OP what I would do. And Im telling the OP how his post and fear of being tested makes him look to me.

He can do what he wants. Its not what I would do. And if I was innocent, I would never plea for "lesser charges" and if, as you say, this is all some scam by CFS, then get the police involved on your own, and go over their heads.

Im not saying "for the children" in some general way. Im not one of those people who feel society should all suffer to make it easier to be lazy parents. Im saying if the child were one of MY family members, that would spur me to act differently in regard to being tested. And, in general, I would not hold up an investigation making political points if I tought my taking up time by making them go the long way, procedurally, were going to endanger someone else.

Thats all. The OP can do what he wants. And so can you. And I would never argue we should make a law saying DFS should have the right to force people to hand over genital swabs without a warrant "for the children."

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
If this story is true....the fact is: a little girl in the care of others has a serious disease that a little girl should not have. It has been requested that all involved in this little girl's life should be tested. Who the heck would not be ok with this....for the sake of the little girl???

I would see red flags for anyone who refueses testing. That is just how it goes.....

Mainly, as I pointed out in my post, that the most likely answer is the mother transmitted it to the child during birth. This is uneccesarilly faulting someone that was probably not involved in anything to do with harming the child.

It would prove more prudent to test the mother, above anyone else. As she is so irresponsible to have a child and lead the life she does, it seems perectly plausible that she was probably infected with HPV prior to birth, and infected the child herself.

This virus can lay dormant for some time before becoming active, and not all people have signs of infection. Automagically assuming it was because someone in the past two years did something to her is only because of the "accepted" standards of the behaviours of the disease. But, not all infected people respond in the same fashion, and not all strains (47 I think it is?) behave in the same "accepted" fashion. Some people have been known to carry the disease for dozens of years before having an active infection. Some people *never* have an active infection.

There is no known general test for the HPV virus, and any test that reveals HPV antibodies only shows a person was exposed, not even necessarily infected.

www.cdc.gov...

Simply put, any testing done is looking for a haystack in a stack of needles, because almost everyone could test positive for HPV antibodies, it is that prevalent. This is being done as a persecution, they are looking for anyone to attack, and almost everyone would fit the bill. You, me, and millions upon millions of other people. It is implausable and cannot be used as a real determination of any fault or guilt of *anything*.

www.cbsnews.com...

(CBS) What's the leading cause of oral cancer? Smoking? Heavy drinking?

Actually, it's oral sex.

Scientists say that 64 percent of cancers of the oral cavity, head, and neck in the U.S. are caused by human papillomavirus (HPV), which is commonly spread via oral sex, NPR reported.

www.womenshealth.gov...

How many people have HPV?

Genital HPV is the most common sexually transmitted infection (STI) in the United States. About 20 million Americans ages 15 to 49 currently have HPV. And at least half of all sexually active men and women get genital HPV at some time in their lives.

The only time HPV is even tested is in the case of womens' health issues:

How do I know if I have an HPV infection?

Most women who have HPV infections never know it. This is one reason why you need regular Pap tests. A Pap test is when a cell sample is taken from your cervix and looked at with a microscope.

A Pap test can find changes on the cervix caused by HPV. To do a Pap test, your doctor will use a small brush to take cells from your cervix. It’s simple, fast, and the best way to find out if your cervix is healthy.

If you are age 30 or older, your doctor may also do an HPV test with your Pap test. This is a DNA test that detects most of the high-risk types of HPV. It helps with cervical cancer screening. If you’re younger than 30 years old and have had an abnormal Pap test result, your doctor may give you an HPV test. This test will show if HPV caused the abnormal cells on your cervix.
One other way to tell if you have an HPV infection is if you have genital warts. (See What is the difference between the high-risk and low-risk types of HPV? for more details.)

What about HPV in men?

HPV is as common in men as in women. HPV rarely causes severe health problems in men. But it can lead to anal cancer in men who have sex with men. There is no test for HPV in men.

After reading what was written, the following can be stated:
While it is a terrifying aspect to think that this has happened to a child, the first thing to do is remain calm. The DCF has a right to be concerned, and ultimately need to get down to the bottom of this, not only to find out who did this to the child, but all those who may be infected need treatment. Now while it may seem like the DCF is thinking you are suspect here, you need to remain calm. Get a lawyer and then visit your doctor to have him perform the test as well as to get a print out of the results. It should show that you are clean and it goes from there. The reason for the lawyer is to shield you from potential legal actions. The concern has to be for the child, first and foremost, no matter what, and if you are the guardian, then take the test and keep your calm. Find out the results as you want to be absolutely sure that way it looks good on the reports.

reply to post by Libertygal


did i read the very last line in that quote right? there is no test for men?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Actually, I don't think they would be able to get a warrant for unreasonable search of a person. This would be an unfounded allegation, based on the evidence I have supplied in two posts in this thread alone. The only thing they could "prove" was if the person was ever exposed to certain strains of HPV at some point in his life. This would go nowhere to proving guilt or innocence in the case as outlined.

This test, no matter the results of the outcome, would prove *nothing*, as HPV is a hugely prevalent disease in this country, and as of now, there is no test for men to determine if they have it. This would be an invasive DNA test, and in the end, the reults would still prove nothing, even if he actively had four hundred warts.

This is an attempt at a persecution and prosecution without any other foundations or allegations of abuse. The courts generally frown upon DFC in certain cirucmstances, and this is most likely going to be one of them.

Sadly, the OP would most likely have to secure a lawyer to appeal any warrant or findings, who would simply reveal to the courts what I have revealed in my other posts.

DFC is not as welcomed in the court system as many people would like to think, and a lot of people grant to them powers they simply do not have by making these same assumptions. They have no right to ask him for a body search or a DNA test, and in fact, any search warrant would have to be carried out by the police, most likely. They would have to show probable cause, and the child having genital warts fails miserably.

Now, I am not saying if they ask, and he willingly gives in, they cannot do the search/testing. But without his consent, they will have to go through other means, meaning filing a police report with allegations of sexual abuse, and would need more than flimsy circumstancial evidence. They would, in all likelihood, have to have verbal testimony from someone purporting to knowing of abuse to obtain a warrant, or show genital injury to the child. Verbal testimony from the child herself would probably not be sufficient, as it would have to be pried out of her at this age. Read: leading questioning.

DFC notoriously tries to intimidate people, but generally lack the real powers to act.


My one suggestion to the OP would be to not interract or talk to DFC again without a witness, tape recorder, or attorney.

Preferably, all of the above.

Originally posted by agentblue
reply to post by Libertygal

 

did i read the very last line in that quote right? there is no test for men?

That is correct. Here is a citation from the CDC:

Is there a test for HPV?

The HPV tests on the market are only used to help screen for cervical cancer. There is no general test for men or women to check one’s overall “HPV status,” nor is there an HPV test to find HPV on the genitals or in the mouth or throat. But HPV usually goes away on its own, without causing health problems. So an HPV infection that is found today will most likely not be there a year or two from now.

www.cdc.gov...

and another:


www.cdc.gov...

HPV



Screening

Cervical cancer is the easiest female cancer to prevent, with regular screening tests and follow-up. Two tests can help prevent cervical cancer or find it early—
•The Pap test (or Pap smear) helps find precancers, cell changes on the cervix that might become cervical cancer if they are not treated appropriately.
•The HPV test checks for the virus that can cause these cell changes on the cervix. It may be used to screen for cervical cancer, with the Pap test, in women aged 30 years and older. It also may be used to provide more information when a Pap test has unclear results.

Currently, there is no routine screening test recommended for other HPV-related health effects, such as genital warts or other HPV-associated cancers (vulvar, vaginal, anal, and head and neck cancers). The Pap test does not screen for cancers other than cervical cancer.

Although there is no routine screening test for other HPV-associated diseases, you should visit your doctor regularly for checkups.

This is a scare tactic, and something that DFC is using to persecute this individual. He is well within his rights to refuse this invasion of his privacy, if only simply due to the fact that *so* many people have been exposed to this disease.

It will accomplish nothing, and prove absolutely nothing. And, DFC has a way of forcing people to pay for the testing "they" demand. I imagine any type of DNA testing for HPV would be 1. hard to find and 2. highly costly.


and one more:

hpvdnatest.com...

Currently, there is no test to find HPV in men. The only approved HPV tests on the market are not useful for screening for HPV-related cancers or genital warts in men.

* Some doctors use anal Pap tests to screen for anal cancer in men, however, there is no routine screening recommended for anal cancer. Anal cancer screening cannot be recommended until more research is done on how best to screen for anal cancer and if screening can reduce the risk of anal cancer.
* There is no approved test to find genital warts for men or women. However, most of the time, you can see genital warts. Some doctors may use a vinegar solution to help find flat warts—but this test can sometimes wrongly identify normal skin as a wart. If you think you may have genital warts, you should see a health care provider.
* There is no test for men to check one’s overall “HPV status.” But HPV usually goes away on its own, without causing health problems. So an HPV infection that is found today will most likely not be there a year or two from now. REMEMBER: HPV is very common. Most men with HPV will never develop health problems from it. Finding out if you have HPV is not as important as finding out if you have the diseases that it can cause.
* Screening tests are not available for penile cancer.

reply to post by Libertygal


Good support for your position. You have convinced me.

If there is no test for what they claim they want to test for, then it does certainly seem like the OP is being harassed and perhaps railroaded.

He should take the information you have provided and seek a lawyer, imho, in light of what you have shown us.

reply to post by Libertygal


Starred.
Thanks for laying out the details of a rational viewpoint better than I could with logic alone.


---

I am so glad to be able to say that we are a culture which abhors the abuse of children. If there has been a crime in this little one's life, I truly hope that she will heal and that the perp is made into an example of justice within the bounds of truth.

reply to post by Dasher


Logic is good, and you did good, but the facts Libertygal provided were the clincher for me. If there actually is no test for what they claim they want to test for, it really undermines the whole argument that he should be tested. Completely nullifies it.

Just man up and take the test for your daughter's sake.

2nd

Seriously, Get tested.

I also disagree with infringing upon someones rights..
and would not be happy about being told what to do...
But in a situation like this, I most certainly would do whatever is required to make sure justice is had for this little girl.

That said..
I also find it kind of suspicious you refuse to get tested.

Let it outrage you all you like..
But it looks very shady on your part.
Do you understand that?

Stop being a panzy.
Get tested, or be suspected.

The truth will come out sooner or later..
Might as well do what needs to be done.
and if your innocent, You have no worries.

I honestly cannot imagine refusing something like this, to help a 5 year old child, ..
Simply because it 'impinges on my rights".

If you have nothing to worry about and you're clean..
Man the F up.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo If this story is true....the fact is: a little girl in the care of others has a serious disease that a little girl should not have. It has been requested that all involved in this little girl's life should be tested. Who the heck would not be ok with this....for the sake of the little girl??? I would see red flags for anyone who refueses testing. That is just how it goes.....

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Beavers
yeah, i'd go for the tests as willingly as possible.

right now, you sound like a scared peado mate!

(just giving you my honest opinion!)

My thoughts exactly.

I apologize deeply if Im wrong,
But really,...

You seem Sketch OP.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Certainly, but even if it were possible, the prescribed/threatened course is simply ineffective at exposing the perp(s). However, I am exceedingly glad that there are hard facts that further expose that the system is obviously horribly deranged in so many ways. This is a clear exposure of the weakness that is "Empire."

When strangers rule over strangers, not much good will come of it. But organize Men according to the honorable aspects of their animal-conduct (flocks, herds, troops, packs, tribes), and there is much more breathing room for nearly all forms of political views. As it is now, Freedom is a catchword used to confuse many and Justice is a catchword used to abuse many.

Consider if those involved in this situation all knew each other because their community was "tightly knit together." I am sure that a real suspect would be investigated more quickly, surely, and rationally than in this situation where strangers are forced to mistrust everyone and walk lines which are so gray that they are often transparent.

It's humorous to note the latecomers stating their confused mantra without addressing anything brought to light in the last couple of pages.

True civility is rare. It must be fostered by our social structure. Empire wears the facade of civility and is certainly responsible for a particular form of preservation regarding the conduct of Man, but for us to truly rise up in Truth, truly civil (read: Godly) conduct must be sown in our own hearts and the hearts of our children.

I actually understand where the op is coming from.

Years ago I had checks bouncing left and right that I knew I didn't write. Long story short, I'd moved, and a box of those checks from that company "CURRENT" came to my old address, were stolen, and then after a year, they started being passed.

I knew I was innocent. I knew I worked my tail off and had just got paid and should have had a few grand in the bank and the first I knew of any of it was a 10.00 pizza check bouncing. I drove 2 hours to a police department investigating thinking I was helping them when all along they had ME pegged as their suspect! They wanted a handwriting sample - I gave them one. My handwriting is VERY distinct.

Then, they asked me for a lie detector test. I was like HECK NO. I was mad too. I was so mad I could have spit. The detective told me that my refusal made me look guilty. I told him his insistence made him look stupid.

Some of us are just different - we don't like the intrusion and it really ticks us off to be accused of something that anyone in their right mind would know we did not do. Plus, what if I TOOK their silly test and it said I did it? Because I was so mad or something? That's what I was thinking - plus, I KNEW - I KNEW- that I'd been working every day like a dog - some 12 and 16 hour shifts - all well documented - in GEORGIA when the checks were being passed in Detroit Michigan. I knew that SEARS had told me that they had this person on camera - she was a really short black girl. I'm as white and long blonde as they come. I had an executive job. No kids. Why would I be in DETROIT buying baby clothes with bad checks?

This country will throw rights and the constitution right out the window where kids are concerned. Now, child molestation is a horrible, horrible crime - it is - but as a country we need to keep our hatred of pedophiles in check so we don't destroy the very liberty we hold dear.

I don't know what I'd do - probably insist that the MOTHER be checked first for sure. Can those things be transmitted at birth? Are they sure they are sexual? Someone I know had a wart.....there...but it wasn't sexual. It was just a regular ol wart. It just came up all of a sudden. I got tested myself, JUST IN CASE he was lying, but I didn't come up positve and never had one.

I don't know much about them though, but I'd be learning.

reply to post by lspilot6946


before you do anything, TALK TO A LAWYER and know what to expect ahead of time.