It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

This website makes me sick

page: 4
4
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 12:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 

Wiccan is witchcraft. Maybe you should do some research before defending such religions/beliefs without even knowing what they're about.

The author of the original posting, Wiilydude89, has not posted since then. He says three words, "I am wiccan", and from this, you have a whole pile of charges to make against him.
So, you are taking the role of the diabolo, which is the thrower of accusations, comonly know as the Devil.
You have no "fruits" to present as evidence, which makes you a slanderer or a satan.
How do you have this special knowledge of this person who you do not know? Is it by Witchcraft, divination? Do you have a "familiar spirit" who tells you these things?
I am not defending a particular belief but people who may have good lives. I have spent a lot of time discussing things on forums with people who do not claim to be Christian who are really good people and are offended when they are told by holier than thou types that they are going to hell.

But after all none of this matters, because if you don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ then you are not on the right path to salvation.
Now you are implying that I am going to Hell, too? When did I say I did not believe in the resurrection of Christ? I was telling a story earlier about Protestant doctrines and how there is a hole in it as far as biblical backing for a substitutionary righteousness. That is a part of what some preachers will use in a sermon or put in a book. It seems like a good concept but it is not defensible against close scrutiny.
The blood of Jesus is the propitiation which shields the human race on this planet from having been annihilated a long time ago. The life of Jesus stands as the representative of this same race of mankind, so we can have things like the Holy Spirit though we are not holy ourselves, so we can though that agency, reach towards that goal of becoming holy and worthy of living in the kingdom come. But the works of Jesus does not substitute for our participation in that regeneration process and becoming better persons.



edit on 6-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Thankyou for your contributions to my thread! It seems that you are one of the few that really gets my post. there will always be the one who defend their religion by denouncing others but that in my mind just chips away at their credibility. I really cannot comprehend how anyone can denounce an entire religion when none of us really know much. Christians have a book that has changed hands and been (possibly) corrupted. Wiccans have their tradition that could have been even more easily corrupted. the fact that we do not know what happens after we die drives many conflicts to justify winch is true. I wish people could just take other views and go "hmm never thought about it that way" and go about their day




posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 03:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by willydude89

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 

Wiccan is witchcraft. Maybe you should do some research before defending such religions/beliefs without even knowing what they're about.

The author of the original posting, Wiilydude89, has not posted since then. He says three words, "I am wiccan", and from this, you have a whole pile of charges to make against him.
So, you are taking the role of the diabolo, which is the thrower of accusations, comonly know as the Devil.
You have no "fruits" to present as evidence, which makes you a slanderer or a satan.
How do you have this special knowledge of this person who you do not know? Is it by Witchcraft, divination? Do you have a "familiar spirit" who tells you these things?
I am not defending a particular belief but people who may have good lives. I have spent a lot of time discussing things on forums with people who do not claim to be Christian who are really good people and are offended when they are told by holier than thou types that they are going to hell.

But after all none of this matters, because if you don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ then you are not on the right path to salvation.
Now you are implying that I am going to Hell, too? When did I say I did not believe in the resurrection of Christ? I was telling a story earlier about Protestant doctrines and how there is a hole in it as far as biblical backing for a substitutionary righteousness. That is a part of what some preachers will use in a sermon or put in a book. It seems like a good concept but it is not defensible against close scrutiny.
The blood of Jesus is the propitiation which shields the human race on this planet from having been annihilated a long time ago. The life of Jesus stands as the representative of this same race of mankind, so we can have things like the Holy Spirit though we are not holy ourselves, so we can though that agency, reach towards that goal of becoming holy and worthy of living in the kingdom come. But the works of Jesus does not substitute for our participation in that regeneration process and becoming better persons.



edit on 6-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Thankyou for your contributions to my thread! It seems that you are one of the few that really gets my post. there will always be the one who defend their religion by denouncing others but that in my mind just chips away at their credibility. I really cannot comprehend how anyone can denounce an entire religion when none of us really know much. Christians have a book that has changed hands and been (possibly) corrupted. Wiccans have their tradition that could have been even more easily corrupted. the fact that we do not know what happens after we die drives many conflicts to justify winch is true. I wish people could just take other views and go "hmm never thought about it that way" and go about their day


Easy to denounce a religion when it practices witchcraft. If you want to dabble in the occult so be it, but don't then come on ATS complaining about a christian website that is just telling the truth okay?

You may think we don't kno what happens when we die, but the bible clearly tells us, if you want to sit in the dark then so be it. You can say our book has been corrupted and changed hands and all that bull, but that's argument is not even a chip off the shoulder, since your a witch i'd like to know what spells you have used?

thanks.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 03:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration






Easy to denounce a religion when it practices witchcraft. If you want to dabble in the occult so be it, but don't then come on ATS complaining about a christian website that is just telling the truth okay?

You may think we don't kno what happens when we die, but the bible clearly tells us, if you want to sit in the dark then so be it. You can say our book has been corrupted and changed hands and all that bull, but that's argument is not even a chip off the shoulder, since your a witch i'd like to know what spells you have used?

thanks.


What makes you think your bible is correct (not saying it isnt). Also what makes it correct over the Quran or the Talmud all three have no proof that you must believe by faith. your bible may say what happens after death but so does the Quran and their not exactly the same. Im sorry but I am unaffected by anything the bible says because i just don't believe in it. please take to heart that i believe in my religion as strongly as you do yours so just as any wiccan belief would not affect you any Christian or other religions beliefs would not affect me.

Also I did not intend this tread to be a battle ground but for people to dispute what that website had to say. I refuse to battle any religion because thats just stupid and almost never offers positive results.

and the rituals of my coven and the spells in my book of shadows stay in my coven for many reasons and thats the way its gonna stay



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 09:23 PM
link   
There is something extremely strange and inherently contradictory to almost everything on this site.
Is it for real, is it a satire and a deliberate parody to get people to think deeper?
Is it just the product of a confused mind? He seems to push faith on the one hand, but then undermines it with totally disjointed narratives to the verses and religious slogans.
We see the supposed author with his Hawaiian steel-guitar, and he mentions that he takes daily doses of opioid drugs (including Morphine Sulphate, Oxycontin and Percocet).
This is further explained here:
www.jesus-is-savior.com...
He has verses on healing (when he is clearly not healed) and other pages on the dangers of "poisons" in our foods and medicines ... mmm, quite a contradiction.
He thinks that like St Paul, the Lord showed him via his sore neck that life isn't fun.
Then he writes of others in greater pain than himself, and a woman who was hit by a drunk driver, and has no fingers to type!
He claims to see great hope in the statement another disabled person made to him: "No one knows your pain" (presumably not even Jesus). This clearly means shut up about it already, but he claims not to complain, after a whole page of explicit complaining!
This is clearly taking the mickey out of certain religious narratives, and surely he must notice the irony of what he is writing, whether he is in pain or not.
A very strange "testimony" to anything spiritual at all (perhaps a testimony to painful reality and painkillers, the list of which grows more extraordinary with every paragraph - notably everything except the "evil" medical marijuana).
That kind of wry irony runs through the entire site.
The funny thing is that most people don't even realize that the joke is on them.
Say the right verses and slogans, and what you say is considered "Christian", even if the long stuff in between completely proves the opposite.
Very clever!

edit on 7-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 09:54 PM
link   
Let's take the author's explanation on being "Born Again".
Now most people would have heard this explained quite simply in salvation booklets, street ministries or altar calls.
Some accept it, and others debate the theology behind it to various degrees.
But, boy this explanation is so convoluted, with verses that deliberately detract from any straight-forward simplicity that it ends up totally ineffectual.
www.jesus-is-savior.com...
Would you send this page to somebody that wants to be born again or saved?
Read closely!

All the main familiar ideas are there, but they are placed into oxymoronic positions: Salvation is a FREE GIFT; PAID FOR by the blood of Jesus. (That might make sense to believers, but that statement doesn't qualify this at all, in fact it juxtaposes two literal slogans to expose their inherent contradiction).
The same with the idea that a man who hasn't been born twice won't understand what it means (which essentially means the whole exercise is futile, you can only really be born twice once you have been born again already, because before that it is gibberish - a chicken and egg salvation).

Then, finally a quote is given which explains that being born again doesn't mean anything practical at all:


“The Gospel is not a call to repentance, or to amendment of our ways, to make restitution for past sins, or to promise to do better in the future. These things are proper in their place, but they do not constitute the Gospel; for the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed. Do not make the mistake then of thinking that the Gospel is a call to duty or a call to reformation, a call to better your condition, to behave yourself in a more perfect way than you have been doing in the past … Nor is the Gospel a demand that you give up the world, that you give up your sins, that you break off bad habits, and try to cultivate good ones. You may do all these things, and yet never believe the Gospel and consequently never be saved at all.”


So it's a prayer to take a hell-deserving sinner to heaven, which hardly qualifies any kind of religion or political views around it. But alternatively he also says no prayer is even necessary, if you can believe what he writes here (with some rather technical terms) you are also born again!
Perhaps some would say it cannot be technically faulted, but boy that is a very complex call to faith.
A definite tension between simplicity and long-winded complexity.
edit on 7-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 10:16 PM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 

So it's a prayer to take a hell-deserving sinner to heaven, which hardly qualifies any kind of religion or political views around it.
That's why I complain about it and any like-minded views and why I call it the antichrist because it goes completely against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus died so we do not have to die forever. He did not live so we do not have to live righteously. He was righteous to make is offering acceptable. Paul says we are to make ourselves a living sacrifice, which would mean that we are not to make the offering of Cain, but to make what we offer acceptable through obedience to what Jesus taught was what we needed to follow in order to enter the kingdom.



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 10:25 PM
link   
Challenging the weird teachings of Jesus-is-saviour.com:
www.therefinersfire.org...

It seems to have become clear in some Christian circles that the site author is a bit "touched", possibly by more than just the Holy Spirit.

The problem is that he casts his net of assertions and conspiracies so wide that most Christians will find just enough that they second (at least at a first glance) to stop them from questioning the whole site.
They will rather just dismiss certain parts.
The question has been posed: is it a hoax?
cystinuriaclearinghouse.com...
But who can judge that, unless anyone knows the authors? Right?

Well, I certainly think it is a hoax and a disinfo site, unless a self-confessed, miserable, morphine-addict is to be believed (a clear reflective hint in the site).
And then you have to wonder - since he opposes virtually all forms of organized Christianity, what exactly is he pushing, except for getting masses of fooled people to hate Christians?

www.answerbag.com...
I'd second this blogger from the above site:

It's hysterically funny. I don't think anyone with an IQ over that of a turtle would ever take it seriously. Read more: www.jesus-is-savior.com... - Does the content of this website offend you? | Answerbag www.answerbag.com...


It is quite amusing to see the worst prejudices being dished out as "Christianity", and it illustrates just how willing believers are to accept "hatefully loving religion", and how willing non-believers are to stereotype Christians as a religion focused on hate and pain.
In that sense, everybody can learn from it.
Hey, it's anti-Muslim and anti-Bush, it's fantastically anti everything!
edit on 7-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 11:02 PM
link   
David J. Stewart, alleged author of Jesus-is-saviour.com accused of being heretic and willful deceiver by Dan Corner:
www.evangelicaloutreach.org...

Corner mentions a list of virtually all the current evangelists which have been slandered by the mysterious Mr. Stewart, and suggests he is rather publicity shy, in contrast to his big-mouthed website:

Mr. David J. Stewart likes to hide. He has no physical address or phone number posted—only a contact form. (Does that sound like something Paul would do?) I can only try to reach David J. Stewart with this debate challenge through his contact form.

David J. Stewart, will you accept this debate challenge on eternal security? This doctrine has allowed you to slander me and deceive people.

edit on 7-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 11:16 PM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 

Oh dear, and then, with further searches it just gets uglier for Mr. David J. Stewart (doesn't it always with things like this?).
Webmaster of Jesus-is-saviour.com a sex offender living in Guam?
bibleversiondiscussionboard.yuku.com...


David J. Stewart's treated in kind (with some similar observations to mine above).
This site says he's not saved actually, and denies Jesus is the Saviour:
www.fmh-child.org...
VERY FUNNY.


edit on 7-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 11:34 PM
link   
Steve Wohlberg site - another fundamentalist pastor implores the faithful to pray for David J. Stewart's soul, after he misinterpreted an anti-witchcraft site as a "pro-Wiccan" site (oops or ha, ha?) and falsely called the good evangelist (oh the insult) a Seventh Day Adventist!
www.stevewohlbergtruth.com...

So now we know how to destroy Christianity.
Just claim a lot of superficial ideas and verses and then take the mickey out of it.
Make a whole bunch of false allegations (from the usual to the esoteric) and hey, you have your own on-line ministry and hordes of fans.
edit on 7-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2011 @ 11:44 PM
link   
This leads me to a new concern.
If virtually nobody recognized this website as a hoax (or a very stoned attempt at Christianity) then how can any of the Christians be for real?
What level of discourse analysis do they have to make an informed choice?

Nowadays individual ministries and pastors are pointing fingers at each other. How would a novice believer know whom to believe?
David J. Stewart actually pointed this out magnificently.
He seems real when you read everything you don't agree with.
But isn't that the links that most people will push?
The links with the faults and shortcomings of others?
If one goes first to Pentacostalism on his site, I bet most of today's "Bible-believing Christians" would be offended, even by the little he says here, and they wouldn't look at the site again. www.jesus-is-savior.com...
That begs the question: if he slags off ALL types of Christianity (even the type that usually does the most slagging) then what does he actually believe, and is anyone acceptable to him as a Christian?

Both funny and sad, but very illuminating.
edit on 8-7-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2011 @ 01:59 AM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 

That begs the question: if he slags off ALL types of Christianity (even the type that usually does the most slagging) then what does he actually believe, and is anyone acceptable to him as a Christian?
Probably a good topic tor the conspiracy threads. Who is behind the church-bashing? One could guess a well known non-christian (not the Muslims) religion who hates Christianity. But of course that would be just wild speculation, right?




edit on 8-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2011 @ 02:15 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Well there could be so many people with a gripe against churches and Christianity.
Then their might just be bitter people in pain who feel they have it figured out, that God is actually deliberately cruel to us in this physical world (almost a 19th century view that the world is a valley of tears, and only that recognition brings us to God and the promise of a better afterlife).

So one cannot say what position this guy comes from.
That is the very lack in it all.
There is no point in David Stewart's site where a certain church, ministry or stream in Christianity is actually confirmed or affirmed.

I would say that this person actually has an atheistic world-view, and a great bitterness against all forms of spirituality.
It is a pity for Christians that he specifically uses Christianity to express that bitterness in a misleading way.



posted on Jul, 8 2011 @ 03:34 AM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 
My guess is that Stewart is not his real name. John Stewart of the Daily Show was not that originally and his brother is the head of the NY Stock Exchange, if that may be a clue. The way I think of it is, who is funding his operation? The Organization of Disgruntled Former Christians? Not likely.



posted on Jul, 8 2011 @ 03:50 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Who knows?
I mean he admits to taking every "medical" morphine/opium-based drug on a daily basis.
He did do some research on his site, but clearly some of it is wrong, slanted or careless.
I would encourage people who think they find any agreement with him to very carefully analyse his wording and research his sources and contexts, before they totally embarrass themselves further.

I'm not a Christian myself (although many of my friends and family are) so I've found the support for this quack or parody site rather baffling.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 11:32 AM
link   
reply to post by willydude89
 

Actually, Wicca looks harmless to me. Has to do with nature right? So you make symbols on the ground and worship nature spirits or something? As long as you're not sacrificing things at an altar or brainwashing kids (who're too young to make up their minds) or making more intolerance in the world than I see nothing but rainbows and butterflies. Makes me feel good inside.

Although I get creeped out knowing people actually BELIEVE there're water spirits. No, that doesn't mean I want to burn anyone. It just means that I like to keep away from belief. I've lived long enough to know that my savior is MacGyver, not Jesus or Hocus Pocus or making symbols on the ground in worship of Vanuu. I want practical real answers, but.... anyway.

I think religion is where people go when they cannot imagine the world and when they're in denial of death. When one doesn't have the mental faculties to imagine how this world is created or denies death then they set themselves up to chase after these kinds of idealogies that explain everything and create unnecessary problems in addition to the ones we already have.
edit on 18-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:09 PM
link   
reply to post by jonnywhite
 


If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins , and is the ONLY way to heaven , and accept him into your heart as your lord and savior ... then all the other stuff , is simply your interpretation



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:52 PM
link   
reply to post by willydude89
 


Actually i got that website thrown at me yesterday... The poster felt the need to point out this...


Wiccans are some of the most deceived people ive met. In all probability, not a single element of the Wiccan story is true. Why bother arguing with me? You apart of an occult religion and we both know where you will end up


And proceded to accuse me of practicing witchcraft as you can see. Which of course i do not, but i have read quite a bit about it. I was mearly defending a practice he did not understand aside from his bias towards it due to biblical scripture.

Please be my guest... set him straight

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:54 PM
link   
reply to post by milkyway12
 


What if we don't? I always wonder what Christians think of people who don't believe in human sacrifice for atonement for sins. I do not believe human sacrifice is way to atone for sins.







 
4
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join