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Islamic Ritual Prayer Conducted At Toronto District School Board Middle School

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posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by navy_vet_stg3
 


Anyone who kills innocents is not a Muslim so anyone who you just named was not a muslim. You know how many people the christians have killed in Rwanda? 800,000

800,000 is a whole lot bigger number than all the muslim terrorists put together. That is only one conflict. Not to mention the killings by hitler.


You are for ONCE correct and that is why I hate all religions not just Islam. I dislike Jews, Christians and Catholics, Jane, Hindu and Buddhist I am equally harsh to all!!!!!!




posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 



Manners have eluded you, have they not?


You're telling me I should show manners to a fear mongering maniac? Boy, you really are arrogant and ignorant huh.


Your mother could have tried a little harder in convincing you that speaking down to people does not make you any better than they are.


I'm not a little robot, so as much as she taught me(and you could ask people that know me in real life if you cared to you know, look for facts, not that you do that a lot) I still decide for myself. I didn't realize I was talking down to you, you see, from my perspective you guys are standing on a ridge shouting down at the rest of us...how are we going to reach your ears without spiking your interest?


Another common mistake you seem to make frequently.


At least amongst my mistakes I am not advocating the hatred of a large group of people. Maybe your mom or dad should have taught you that, then maybe I would not be talking down to you.


I like how you think that if you get personal that I'll get mad



I shall not fret though as arguing with you is rather pointless.


Quite pointless for you because you will be proven wrong every time yes. For me however...


Have a good day.


It started out real nice



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by Misoir
 



Also just because you disagree with someone else and their views does not make them ignorant, rather that makes you seem like the ignorant one.


Alright, you have a big mouth, lets deny ignorance together then shall we. I warn you though, no running is allowed.


1- Your OP is based more on an emotionally written blog post(by someone who is most likely a nut case scared of the Muslim boogyman).


The blog was almost completely the email from a concerned parent.


2- Your OP implies that this is a bother to other students.


We have no proof whether it is or not but we do know that it is bothering a parent of one student. Perhaps he is alone or maybe he speaks up when other parents do not, that we cannot be sure of.


3- Your OP implies that other students are not allowed into the cafeteria and they are forced to stay in class rooms until praying is done.


What it should imply is that the other students are not permitted access to the cafeteria at the time, does that necessarily mean they are confined to their classrooms? One would assume the other students are in class while this is occurring but if I implied they are 'locked' in the classroom because of the prayer it was not my intention.


4- You HAVE NOT read the document yourself, you did NOT think it through before you posted this thread.


I would argue that you are incorrect here.


And last but not least, the thing that makes me want to just point and laugh at you:

5- You are trying to incite fear amongst Christians towards Muslims.


Pointing and laughing at someone? Is this elementary school here?

What I did was point this issue out to the people of ATS and asked questions of how/why this is happening. It was left up to the individual for them to decide how they want to interpret it.


But anyways, see those 5 points there? That was just the start, lets break it down shall we?

Seeing as how you've posted a bit of the blog post and made it look like such a big issue, lets take the part from the document you so smugly hint to:


The school is providing a venue for the Muslim student´s to have prayers at school on Fridays.
An Imam from the neighbouring mosque comes to our school and conducts the prayers.
Prior to this, students signed out early on Friday afternoons to go to mosque. By staying at school,
valuable instructional time is saved for our students.


Underlined 1: This happens one time a week, not 5, not 10, not 20. ONE.
Underlined 2: This decision was made to keep students in the school, to,
Underlined 3: save the students time.


Never once did I argue this happened more than once a week. And so what if it was made to keep students in school, why are they holding these prayers within a public school? It can only be acceptable if students of any other religious affiliation were afforded these same opportunities. If they are then I would close this case.


Lets continue: The students are excused from their classes because they have to pray(freedom of religion), before, they used to have to leave the school premises to pray, now they stay on the school premises to pray. The other students used to sit through their own classes when the Muslim students went to pray, so nothing has changed here, whereas you are implying they are KEPT in classrooms and not let out because others are praying.


Once again if that is what I implied my apologies as they are not officially 'kept' in their classrooms, to my knowledge anyway.


Now, if ONLY you had an idea of how much you put your own foot in your mouth I'd be smiling for a week. (going to do so regardless)


I do not see a case here where I have put my foot in my mouth.


You people continuously badger the Muslims as if they are evil and plotting behind closed doors to take over the Christian world. When this article you post, is a shining beacon, of how well integrated Muslims can be.


So separating themselves from the rest of the class for their own group prayer is somehow integrated? If they were truly integrated these students would be with the rest of the students at this time rather than separated.


The school board can now easily observe the Friday prayers, whereas before they couldn't. Less mystery, less fear. However, you can never count out the stupid people. Enter blog poster and the gullible fool who tries to make this big on ATS


Yes because we obviously know that there is no possibility of the school faculty that is assinged to observe these prayers are going to raise a red flag if something questionable is said.


(using a Wilders picture in his signature, by god man do you know how stupid it makes you look to have a picture of that guy in your signature? I mean, it must make you a hero towards all these "American Christian Muslim haters"...you kind of prove my point that you people have a target audience...ATS mods should be very wary of this(once again, hopefully one day they will realize).)


Why do you imply that I must somehow be a hero to 'American Christian Muslim haters'? Geert Wilders is first of all not even American so most Americans do not know who he is. Second he is only being smeared because of his speaking out against what he sees as the threats coming from Islam, why should he be treated horribly for bringing up a potentially important issue? And three why should the mods be wary of people peacefully speaking their mind on ATS? I have just as much right to speak within T&C as you do. If that is something you find intolerable I suggest you ignore my posts.




Why is a Canadian school bringing in an Imam to lead prayer on Friday for Muslim boys while keeping all the other students out of the cafeteria at that time and in their classes?


It seems that you did not research the document you posted yourself. Ignorance denied.

NEXT PLEASE.


For the third time I must address this same issue, if you interpreted what I posted as suggesting the other students were 'kept' in their classes I apologize because it is an easy error from my poor wording in the OP.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:48 PM
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This is Wrong.
Islamic Prayers have no place in a District / public school systems.
If the muslims dont like it, well,,,,,,,,, %$#@ off back to the stone age where you belong.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by Misoir
 



And so what if it was made to keep students in school, why are they holding these prayers within a public school? It can only be acceptable if students of any other religious affiliation were afforded these same opportunities. If they are then I would close this case.


Christian day of prayer: Sunday.
Muslim day of prayer: Friday.
And from Wiki:

Shabbat is observed from a few minutes before sunset on Friday evening until a few minutes after the appearance of three stars in the sky[1] on Saturday night.


Seeing how kids are not in school a few minutes before sunset, I'd say this is another worthless argument you've presented us.


So separating themselves from the rest of the class for their own group prayer is somehow integrated?


So I see you are deciding to play ignorant. Baby steps, dude, baby steps. I bet this will make a lot of the students feel more at ease with Islam, which will result in understanding, mutual respect, no demonizing, and in the future, because that's where you fail to look, the creation of a new type of behavior towards each other. One without the senseless fear mongering. Integration some call it...


If they were truly integrated these students would be with the rest of the students at this time rather than separated.


Look, I dislike religion, but even I wouldn't go as far as to forbid people from practicing their faith. That's what you are trying to do. It's discriminating. Can these Muslim students help the fact that their day of prayer is Friday? No. Christians are lucky that their day is Sunday, imagine the hassles they are safe from when they want to practice their religion.


Yes because we obviously know that there is no possibility of the school faculty that is assinged to observe these prayers are going to raise a red flag if something questionable is said.


Something questionable is always said at schools. You know by who? The students. Besides, nice attempt at sneaking in another one of those underhand arguments. Care to share what it is that could be said warranting a red flag? Do you have ANY knowledge about this Imam and his view? No, you don't.


Geert Wilders is first of all not even American so most Americans do not know who he is.


I suppose he didn't go to the US and speak to a bunch of people then. Most Americans is false logic by the way.


Second he is only being smeared because of his speaking out against what he sees as the threats coming from Islam, why should he be treated horribly for bringing up a potentially important issue?


This guy has a political party. He is the leader of the political party. I happen to live in the Netherlands so I'd assume I know a thing or two more about this particular issue than you do. Question; Have you seen his economic agenda? No you haven't, because he lacks one. What serious political party tries to run to get into government without serious economical policies? Answer: One that has ulterior motives. Ever since he started the only thing he's been bitching about is Islam, his voter base is often joked about here as "SBS 6 volk", which is another way of saying uneducated people.


And three why should the mods be wary of people peacefully speaking their mind on ATS? I have just as much right to speak within T&C as you do. If that is something you find intolerable I suggest you ignore my posts.


Because they should, end of. If you can't see the patterns that you are part of maybe you should not post at all? Because you don't know what you're doing...



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


Had enough I suppose.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 




I was making reference to the many cases of Christian youths trying to organize group prayers on school grounds either before school, at recess/lunch, or after school. These small prayer groups got banned at most public schools.


This was a decision made by the school board. Not by students. You were a Muslim? Was your day of prayer Friday? It was you say? Been a Christian? Their day of prayer is on Sunday.

Your point is mute.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by Misoir
 


Had enough I suppose.


Nothing is coming of our back-and-forth so why bother continuing it? You completely disagree with me and I completely disagree with you. We both argued our points so let's leave it at that.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Misoir
 




Nothing is coming of our back-and-forth so why bother continuing it? You completely disagree with me and I completely disagree with you. We both argued our points so let's leave it at that.


But let it be clear to you that you came to your conclusion via fear and ignorance.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by TheButcher23

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by navy_vet_stg3
 


Anyone who kills innocents is not a Muslim so anyone who you just named was not a muslim. You know how many people the christians have killed in Rwanda? 800,000

800,000 is a whole lot bigger number than all the muslim terrorists put together. That is only one conflict. Not to mention the killings by hitler.


You are for ONCE correct and that is why I hate all religions not just Islam. I dislike Jews, Christians and Catholics, Jane, Hindu and Buddhist I am equally harsh to all!!!!!!


that was hutu and tutsi, a tribal thing. that's why alot were burned and slaughtered in CHURCHES!

but we can blame the muslims if you want since quasimoto established santuary and christians would not do something like that. need some links? google it.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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All of you against Islamic Jihad, please read a thread I wrote about the issue. I fully explained Jihad Warfare IN CONTEXT.

True Islamic Jihad And It's Beauty

If you do not have a couple minutes to read that OP, you have denied yourself truth and knowledge, but instead continue to think based on faulty emotion.

It is well worth the read, I promise.


P.S.
Most of these replies are waaaaay off topic just to either bash or defend Islam. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT [School + Islamic Prayer]. I guess it's cool nowadays to jump into a thread and talk about everything EXCEPT the op.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 03:41 AM
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. . . and back to the o.p. topic of prayer, I remember the time
when those that didn't want to pray had the opportunity to leave the
class rm. and wait in the hallway till it was over.
To pray in the cafeteria when it's not being used, would be the less
disruptive way.
But seriously, people pray in public places all the time.
. . . in hospitals,
. . . at tables in restaurants,
. . . sports games, and it's not just Muslim; It would be a stretch even
for China to ban praying; makes me wonder what kind of person would
ban praying ? ? ?



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir
When their families moved here to the West from overseas they knew how the system was. Any immigrant with an ounce of respect for the host nation would neither expect to be treated any different than the natives nor expect their children to be treated any different. They came here knowing that we have Saturday and Sunday as our days off from work and school, this is not new to them. Any decent human being would assimilate into that rather than try and separate themselves from it.

No school in the west, unless they are strictly schools for Muslim students, should ever have special days off for any people because of their religion. 'But the Christians have it!' yeah the Christians do have a day off here and you know why? Because this is the Western world, we are a civilization built off of Christianity in all forms. If Muslims are so desperate to have a special day off I hear there are around 2 dozen or so countries that can offer them such leisure’s.
edit on 7/1/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)


I cann't beleive I'm even replying to this post, but
someone needs to inform him.
. . . when you say their families moved here to the west,
whom do you exactly mean ? the pilgrims, from Europe ?
To begin with. people of Canada not all necessarily believe
in the easter-bunny ( and this is not the Muslim's 'fault')
Since you put your foot where your mouth is, then by (going
by your philosophy) and not believing in the the native Great-Spirit
shouldn't you be living at the Vatican or something ? Lol



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Anyone who kills innocents is not a Muslim so anyone who you just named was not a muslim. You know how many people the christians have killed in Rwanda? 800,000


Slightly off-topic, but it's interesting that you should mention Rwanda.

Apparently, there has been a large increase in the number of Rwandan converts to Islam since the civil war, due to the fact that, in 1994, many of the country's minority Muslim population risked their lives by hiding and sheltering Tutsis who were fleeing the genocide.

But, of course, stories like that are largely ignored by the Islamophobes.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by redrose123
women aren't allowed to share the same restrooms even in their own homes .

Yes and pass a law to share bathrooms in our homes. woowoo
Anyone hogging a bathroom at my house will be issued
a order directly from the military state police.
Butt seriously don't you think ? that what I do in my own
bathroom should be my business ?
I was afraid it would come to this, first I can't pray, next I have to
report to the gov' when I use the bathroom ? are you for real ?





edit on 2/7/11 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


When their families moved here to the West from overseas they knew how the system was. Any immigrant with an ounce of respect for the host nation would neither expect to be treated any different than the natives nor expect their children to be treated any different. They came here knowing that we have Saturday and Sunday as our days off from work and school, this is not new to them. Any decent human being would assimilate into that rather than try and separate themselves from it. countries that can offer them such leisure’s.
edit on 7/1/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)


As a Canadian from a christian background, I have to take issue with your comment.

Canada is a nation that welcomes all comers from across the globe. We are built on the idea of promoting tolerance, acceptance, change and progressive understandings of everyones free will to pray to whomever they choose provided they respect others rights to do so as well. The school is a community place where all members of the community can ask permission to conduct activities that are in accordance with the law and values of said community.

America and Canada differ in their immigration policy and practice both practically and historically. In America when you immigrate you become AMERICAN there is no hyphenated other nationality, in Canada you become a Chinese Canadian, Indo-Canadian, a Canadian from Ghana and so forth. We aim to be a model of a multicultural free and peaceful society where people are welcome to share their cultural heritage and NOT assimilate into a rigidly structured society whose motto is "My way or the highway!." Or in the words of the monkey from Texas, "Your either with us or against us."

Most people who immigrate to Canada are thankful they can be themselves and have a wonderful place to raise their children without fear of persecution due to their, ethnicity, belief system, gender or sexual orientation.

I think this model of understanding is one of the ways in which society can elevate itself to a place where war is no longer the only option to settle differences of opinion. It's ok to be different, homogenous societies lead to ideas of pure blood, race and inferiority of other races. Didn't we fight the fascists and Hitler to stop this kind of thinking?

Free your mind and the world will follow.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


... and? I do not care if Muslims accounted for 50% of the population here in the West my statement still stands. The West is the cradle of Western civilization which has been built on its first Pagan, then Christian, and since the 18th century, Enlightenment roots. Why should we change anything for immigrants who came here voluntarily to our civilization? They live here it is only respectful to assimilate into the new culture which means do not try and make anyone else change their way of life just for them.
edit on 7/1/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)


Why didn't the Christians do as you say and assimilate into the natives culture instead of forcing their own religion on them? So all your saying is Christians should be able to do what they want and everyone else should follow along.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir
The West is the cradle of Western civilization which has been built on its first Pagan, then Christian, and since the 18th century, Enlightenment roots. Why should we change anything for immigrants who came here voluntarily to our civilization?


We all immigrated here so unless you're a Native American, this is a hypocritical thing to say.


They live here it is only respectful to assimilate into the new culture which means do not try and make anyone else change their way of life just for them.


"Stop being so Muslim!"

Edit: What makes you think all Muslims immigrated here? Many Muslims are black and their families have been here for generations, probably longer than yours has.
edit on 2-7-2011 by Nosred because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Canada is a multicultural contry that in theory is supposed to be fair to everyone
tolerance they are always preaching

I come from a town where it had the only public school board in Ontarion that was Catholic
and the "SEPARATE" school board was Protestant..
all others were the other way round
all others were Protestant and the SEPERATE schools are Catholic

note the word SEPERATE!

for NON demonimal xians like me
religion in school was a horrid experience
("Nun" is the word where "fun" should be!)

So if anyone has a problem with this
well
take religion out of all public schools
period
and replace them all with a Minorah or something

At one point they divided my multilanguage school
into french in the cafeteria and english in the gym
When they said we aren't trying to promote seperatism..
which they were..
(we now have to single language high schools we can't afford...)
Some smart a$$ shut everyone up by yelling:
"Yeah! Well why have you just SEPARATED us?"

this is all about divide and conqure
edit on 2-7-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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S&F 4 Misoir - Several stars throughout the thread in fact.

This is mostly a placeholder until I return from town, but for now I'll just echo a previous poster who said if Christians aren't allowed to pray in a school setting then no other religion should be able to either. This is a clear case of kowtowing to one faith over another.

On the other hand, since Christians, Jews, and Muslims all purport to worship the God of Abraham, might I suggest a non-denominational service, once a day, during which no specific Deity is mentioned. "God, be with us as we learn today..." It might even promote tolerance if members of all faiths prayed together! Who but an atheist could argue against that?

No, I'm not saying atheists should be forced to pray; they can go to study hall at the appointed time; maybe they'll learn something.
edit on 7/2/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)



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