I Shot Someone

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posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by gunshooter
 


Not everybody uses forums like this to seek attention or any other form of personal self-gratification. Pouring your heart out to an anonymous crowd is a lot easier and more constructive than talking to people whose reactions and personal opinions mean something to you. Also, I see this medium as a perfectly viable method of honest collaboration among like minded, educated, experienced or otherwise intelligent people.

While you alluded to the fact that the OP's situation can't be proven, it also, cannot be disproven or connected to a certain individual specifically. With that said, there should be no harm in sharing personal issues with an online community, provided no personal details linking the OP to the incident are given.

And THAT'S my opinion. As is the purpose of this forum: the sharing of opinions and insights.




posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by gunshooter
 


See my post just below yours.

I kept this private for years - not even my family knew about it.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I felt a unique ATS perspective could help the cathartic process, especially in light of the fact there are many combat vets on here.

It affected my whole philosophy of how I viewed life, and turned me into something of a pacifist and an anti-gun "nut"

It's completely up to you to think whatever you like about my motivations, but as I said previously, this is a cathartic process for me and I have not sought for anyones approval.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


Mate, there is a formula. If you come under fire you return fire.

You hadn't chosen to be in that place at that time. You were put there. You reacted exactly as you should have done. Would feel any different if you had shot someone of 20 years? 40 years? 60 years? Why would you feel different? Your emotions led you to quit the forces after the event - why did you join? Did you love your job before this?

I think you need to look at any resentment you may have towards this event. What do you work as now? Has this left you feeling like you lost your job that you loved and now you are working a cr@p job for cr@p money.......

The guy you killed picked up his gun and took his chance. You played your part in his story just as he has played his part in your story. Perhaps it gives him, or his death some meaning if your story goes on to be a good one. Perhaps in time you will see him as the person who kickstarted your success?



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by budski
 





I have never said I hate the royal family.

I just think they are an anachronism, and an expensive one at that.

This also didn't happen yesterday - it happened a good few years ago, and only recently have I recognised and sought counselling for PTSD. Like I said before, it's a cathartic process, I neither want nor have asked for anyones approval.


your comments on your thread concerning the royal wedding seem to suggest otherwise..

but im not looking for an argument, with you budski. its just something i noticed...

back on topic, when you join the army and are training, dont they prepare you for the eventuality, that you might have to kill someone? surely every soldier should be prepared for this outcome?

obviously i know thinking about something and doing it are 2 different things.. but it is a valid question..

do they prepare you for this? and do they provide some sort of counciling for those that find it difficult to come to terms with?



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by budski


I've bottled this up for so many years, and it wasn't until a mutual friend recognised the symptoms of PTSD, and through that, I recognised them myself, that I sought counselling.

Part of the process is to talk about it, and get the views of others, for which ATS is a unique place - a strangers perspective can often be more valuable than that of someone close to you.

I can't change what happened or how I feel about it, but I can come to terms with it - this is part and parcel of that process.

So now you know why sometimes you don't hear from me, and why sometimes I am prone to going off the deep end.

I am not going to discuss the unit I was with.



You're a good man, Budski.

Don't ever forget it.

Glad you are getting the help you deserve man.
edit on 2-7-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Wow,i hope you get better in the head because you murdered someone....

I dont see how people can say things like "no ones perfect" or "you were just doing your job" when its pretty obvious that he joined a organization that is based around killing people,terrorism,war, whatever you want to call it.



the positive thing is that now you know why the world hates you imperial yankees playing world police everywhere you should not even be go back your country, take your weapons with you... AND RESIGN FROM [snip] ARMY


TheHairInTheSoup is right,you arent fighting for your country because its in trouble,your fighting and creating trouble all over the world,and you want people to feel sorry for you? or to pat you on the back and say its alright?!? are you joking me!




Murder is murder regardless of what reason you have for murdering. However, the person who murders for fun is in worse shape than the person who murders for their country. But it's still wiping someone off of the face of the planet. Someone that could otherwise serve some purpose but is now unable to.


Smithjustinb has a great point right here as well,murder is murder regardless of anything in my opinion, and thats exactly what you have done.
You went out of your way to go kill someone, you left your house and hometown and went and killed someone, plain and simple.You murdered someone.



That is truly a sad situation, wish i could offer comforting words but the military is about killing, period.


I agree with CaDreamer and feel the same way,i dont know what you expect people to say to you,but if you are wishing its comforting words of advice you believe you deserve then i think you have problems.
What do you want from this thread exactly?



Just because it is government sanctioned does not make it "not murder". He went over and invaded another country and killed a fellow human being period. Now the definition of murder is: : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought Just because a country endorses said murder does not make it less so than what it is - the taking of another human being's life force. Your mindset excuses a high crime. Nobody should be killing anybody period. When will humanity grow up?


And finally,Ofhumandescent posts sums up how i feel and my opinion on "murder under the military" or any other murder for that matter.You have murdered someone under a military which you joined, do you think its right just because the military gives you the go ahead to take a life? seriously,do you? because im interested about knowing how you justify that its right, i think its absolutely wrong.
I see you thinking that the military giving you the go ahead to kill is like you getting a fake drivers license in a box of cereal,and you believing it has empowered you with a right to do so,you think that joining the military gives you the right to kill.
Well guess what!, its doesnt!, and YOU know it!








edit on 2-7-2011 by BillyBoBBizWorth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Misterlondon
 


Any form of emotional trauma is kind of swept under the carpet in the British armed forces for some strange reason.

It's getting better, but at the time there was very little in the way of counselling - which is probably why so many ex soldiers are complete nutters, and why so many end up taking their own lives.

I always found it odd that the services would spend so much time and money training someone, and then fail to spend an insignificant amount helping a soldier overcome emotional trauma.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Trueman
 


You chose to lay down your weapon and that is your path to salvation.when the feeling becomes too much too handle just think of all the souls will carry on because you chose not to keep killing.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Swanseadog
 


He went over there..............the kid did not come over here.

Self defense is when someone invades your country, your home with a weapon.

The kid was in his own country defending his country................bud went over there, like all the other drone pawn chess pieces we call soldiers.

Nobody should be killing anybody period.

Again I ask, when will humanity wake the frak up?

Murder, the taking of another human's life force is wrong.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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When you are pushed, killing is as easy as breathing.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by ofhumandescent
 


You see now, that's where you're wrong - the lad was from another country, and was across the (disputed) border running drugs.

I agree completely about the total wrongness of taking a life - that's why I left straight after, and why I am now extremely anti-gun and something of a pacifist.

I've stated this before - perhaps you should read the whole thread before judging me.
If you do that, and still feel as you do, then I can do or say no more.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


You are not alone.

Many of the ex Viet Nam Vets that saw actual combat and some of the Gulf War Vets are having a lot of emotional trauma right now.

For anyone out there that has never attended or been beside a gunshot victim - you are totally clueless.

And, I am partially clueless because the three I saw were, two had one shot each and one had two shots not a body racked full of shots.

The two shot victim proved fatal. The two victims that each had one shot will be handicapped for the rest of their lives. All were horrible to witness, absolutely horrible - one has no idea the trauma to the human body one small bullet can do to the human body much less a bunch of big ones.

Most people posting have no concept of being beside a fellow human as they bleed out and die..........no clue.

They're talking through their arse.

You cannot totally empathize because the movies don't even show how gruesome this type of death truly is.

The feeling of the soul leaving the body is also traumatic.

Most of you haven't a clue.

You people out there so gun ho to sign up................work a ER room in a inner city for just one year.

And that won't probably even prepare you for some of the stories I have heard from ex Vets and what they had to go through.

My husband tested real high in IQ so he never saw anyone hurt or killed, he was kept safe on a carrier.

The Vets we've talked to that saw action, one I was engaged to...........came back not totally himself.

On a inner soul level, taking the life force (murder) of another fellow human being scares your soul.

It takes a lot of courage, counseling and working through it.

I have found that giving some of your time over to doing random acts of kindness help lessen the pain..........become a big brother, donate time to a homeless shelter, something to better the planet and those less fortunate.

Love is the answer, everything else is an illusion.

edit on 2-7-2011 by ofhumandescent because: grammar



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by BillyBoBBizWorth
 


You people are heartless.

The guy quit his job and changed his life because he was so upset about what he has done. Dos that not tell you something. If he was boasting abot it I would have said something very simmilar to what you said, but he wasn't. He is looking ofr peace - you are kicking a man while he is down and that is pathetic. You just want to carry on the hate while others are trying to get rid of it.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by budski
During continuation training in Belize I was patrolling near the border, and we came under fire after challenging them, them being an incursion.

I dropped and picked a target.

I put 3 rounds in his T.

Turned out he was 15 years old.

I can't let go of that.

It haunts me every day.
edit on 1/7/2011 by budski because: (no reason given)


That is some heavy stuff my friend.
I don't really know what to say..
other than to say that nobody 'goes' and exits this world until they are supposed to.

I do not think the circumstances surrounding how we "go" really matters...
Even though it appears to, to us.

I mean...
Our minds tell us that "this is bad, and shouldn't have happened"..
But the truth is that it could happen no other way.

When it is our time to exit this world, it is our time.. and it will happen precisely when it is meant to.
No sooner, no later. By whatever means required.

We do not know the circumstances of this boys life,
Perhaps he spent 15 years in hell, and "did his time"..
and while you think you "destroyed" him..
You very well may have done the opposite,
Freed him and let him go.

This is how The Universe works..
(not trying to be all "new - age" or anything)..
But i have learned, without a doubt.. that everything that happens, no matter how "good" or how "bad" it appears to be... Happens for a very good reason.. and things could not possibly work out any other way.

This young man was ready to leave, His time to go was precisely the moment he went,
and his way of going was precisely the way it was meant to be.

I'm sorry you had to be the one the universe chose to help in carrying out this young mans exit..
But again.. It could happen no other way my friend.

He is at peace, and you helped him find peace...
Probably for the first time ever.

Death is an illusion , We do not die, We cannot die.
I have experienced "death" for nearly 7 minutes..
and let me tell you.. "death" is one of the biggest lies/illusions ever.
It doesn't happen.
We simply move on when it is our time to..
How we move on, is of no consequence.

Having said all that,
Im sure it does not make you feel much better about what you went through.
Just know that there are no 'mistakes', no 'accidents", and nothing happens that does not need to happen,
and everything that does happen, needs to happen, and will.

Please be happy that you have been able to remain "human" , after being involved with something that does everything it can to take away ones humanity. (Army/War/etc)

I hope you find some peace brother.
Love n Blessings



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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you know whats's strange...?

the whole discussion is touching me more than any anti war movie, novel or song... it's the first time that I start to think about the concept of killing another person in the name of justice, self defense or maybe a contract I signed... where do you draw the line? a lot of members wrote that it's ok to kill someone in a situation where it's either you or me. every time I've read this it made me sick because it sounds so... easy..! then I tried... I mean I really tried to put myself in your shoes, bud as far as it is possible for someone not military or police... and then it got even more complicated. are "they" (whoever this is) really that bad that they deserve to die or are they just in the same situation that I am (in my roleplay as bud)? so there are two more or less good people on both sides with the same fears and the same hopes... that's sick... but that is the concept of war and it is always one against one and the death of the other whoever it will be is NEVER justified...

and now I realize how lucky I am thatup til now I never had to make that decision and I really pray that I never have to make it....

I know you started this thread for yourself but thanks anyway for giving me the chance to think about the unthinkable...



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by budski
 



The target may have been 15 but it was him who chose to fight and it was him who chose to pick up the gun. You may have saved 5 of your comrades lives by killing the guy for all you know. It was the right thing to do in the circumstances, if you would have allowed him to live it could have been you or your comrades lying on that floor. If there had to be blame then the blame would lie at the goverments feet, not yours.

You need to let it go.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by budski
 





I always found it odd that the services would spend so much time and money training someone, and then fail to spend an insignificant amount helping a soldier overcome emotional trauma.


It's really not that odd, Budski. It has become quite clear in war after war that our governments view soldiers as collateral damage. They are a means to an end. Here in the states, that end is profit. Once you are of no use to them, they could care less what happens to you. I know that sounds cynical, but it appears to be the truth, just judging by how the U.S. govt. has treated our vets for decades.

The military is supposed to be used to defend a country...it's not supposed to be used to generate profit. I think many young people (at least in the U.S.) who join the military these days have failed to realize that most wars we've fought had suspicious beginnings or were initiated from outright lies; either that, or they enlist out of desperation for economic reasons.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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I feel for you i really do, however if you join the military is this not what you get trained to do?

I don't think i could ever just shoot someone... but if it was a case of kill or be killed then self preservation steps in..

I hope for your own sanity, you will realize there was probably not a lot you could have done and the outcome was how it was supposed to be.

~Peace~



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by NightGypsy
 


Fair points.

I also think there is a somewhat macho attitude involved, and there is a stigma attached to emotional turmoil - soldiers are supposed to be tough, and what kind of tough guy wants to admit to what others percieve as weakness...



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


I've notcied you have some very mixed responses, but personaly I think it was very brave of you to admit how this incident effected you and resign the next day. Many people in the military who have the same experience fail to find the same courage and end up staying in their job where they struggle greatly with day to day aspects of the job due to psd. You defnately made the right choice for yourself. I hope that you dont blame yourself for the inccident and are making progress recovering from psd, admitting how you feel is a good help so I hope that you recover well..

I think its great that you shared the story and I have read all your responses unlike others who accuse you of not giving any info who dont seem to understand that its not the sort of thing that all people can just blurt out in detail all in one go.

I am not against people joining up at all by any means, but I do believe your story may help people consider the emotional dangers as well as the physical risks. I hope that upon your resignation you were treated with respect and dignity in particular for your honesty.

Get better soon mate Thank you for sharing the experience and your personal feelings as well.





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