Black on black campus violence! (Crazy Video!)

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
reply to post by dragonseeker

 

Lets sweep under the rug, the true cause of this self-hatred.

People just don't wake up in the morning hating themselves. Self-hatred is a gradual process.

There is a cause for everything.

These causes can be traced back to Slavery, then to the civil rights movement with the assassination of the two greatest AA leaders to walk the Americas.

AA's needed a leader. All through European history, we see leaders stand up and guide their people to the promise land. People all through history.

But the AA's did not have one when they needed it, and the MINUTE they got it... and when the government or the white power structure of that day, saw these two leaders uniting and gaining more universal appeal, they took them DOWN, leaving the AA's back in the wilderness.

AA's need leadership and still do... we had it with two strong figures....HAD.

edit on 3-7-2011 by Q2IN2Y because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2011 by Q2IN2Y because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2011 by Q2IN2Y because: (no reason given)

That's true, but, if you look at history, many, many people were enslaved. the descendants of such cultures are among the most successful today..so why do our issues with slavery still hold us back, when there are plenty of examples of other cultures who had to overcome the same type of thing and managed to do so? nope, it's a crutch now. it's a way of saying "see? this is why we're not..(insert whatever). black folks have been stuck in an endless loop for so long now, and black folks are the only ones who can break it. this black man is done blaming whitey for things..every person is captain of their own ship. it's up to you where it sails..
Or, if it sails at all.

reply to post by dragonseeker


I understand that point too, but you have to understand physical scars heal over time. Do you know how long emotional scars last? Do you know how long psychological scars last?

People need to understand that an indoctrination of self-hatred for 400 years cannot be allayed with 40-50 years of liberation.

Looking at those numbers alone should show you how absurd it is. To take a group of people form their home, destroy everything about them, then expect them to heal from all the scars which YOU placed upon them, in 50 years?

Culture, destroyed. Language, destroyed. Families destroyed. Self-identity, destroyed. Self-pride, destroyed.
And whenever AA's tried to develop some sense of self, it was destroyed... not only by threat, but through legislation.

But then expect them to rise up against the grain in 50 years in a society who still had prejudices against them up until the late 70s (remember MTV would not play black videos until MICHAEL JACKSON came along)? A whole population? Granted a few could do it, but not the ones who are so indoctrinated with the concept of self-hatred... no.

AA's needed their Moses to lead them to freedom, they had two, and they were assassinated.

I don't want to jump off topic though so I'll leave it at that.

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
reply to post by dragonseeker

 

I understand that point too, but you have to understand physical scars heal over time. Do you know how long emotional scars last? Do you know how long psychological scars last?

People need to understand that an indoctrination of self-hatred for 400 years cannot be allayed with 40-50 years of liberation.

Looking at those numbers alone should show you how absurd it is. To take a group of people form their home, destroy everything about them, then expect them to heal from all the scars which YOU placed upon them, in 50 years?

Culture, destroyed. Language, destroyed. Families destroyed. Self-identity, destroyed. Self-pride, destroyed.
And whenever AA's tried to develop some sense of self, it was destroyed... not only by threat, but through legislation.

But then expect them to rise up against the grain in 50 years in a society who still had prejudices against them up until the late 70s (remember MTV would not play black videos until MICHAEL JACKSON came along)? A whole population? Granted a few could do it, but not the ones who are so indoctrinated with the concept of self-hatred... no.

AA's needed their Moses to lead them to freedom, they had two, and they were assassinated.

I don't want to jump off topic though so I'll leave it at that.

edit on 3-7-2011 by Q2IN2Y because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2011 by Q2IN2Y because: (no reason given)

Hey, I'm not on the outside looking in here. I'm black. I grew up around black folks. for most of my life, I had that "victim" mindset drilled into me, because it's pervasive in the black community. I'm saying that, it gets you nowhere. at some point, we have to stop pointing to our scars, crying about the past, and making excuse after excuse after excuse. I can't succeed in life by hating myself. I can't fly if I either clip my own wings, or hang with people who will clip them for me if given the opportunity to do so. black america is a very self-defeating culture. we can talk about malcolm and MLK all you want, but we shouldn't need a messiah to succeed. I resent being treated like a victim, and I'm damn sure not going to act like one, no matter WHAT has been done to me/you/us in the past or the present.

reply to post by dragonseeker


When you have no sense of self, you need someone to show you the way.

Did you learn to walk on your own. Did you learn to ride a bike by yourself? You taught yourself how to read?

Did you teach yourself how to behave in public? I'm guessing you knew instinctively to wash your hands after using the restroom, or how to wipe yourself.

No, because when you were born you had no sense of self, you needed someone to show you... and overtime you developed into your own self.

AA's, while not babies in mindset, needed that guidance that a child needs in their early years for lack of self. When you are a victim of abuse, (and typically the goal for the abuser is to take away the SENSE of SELF of the victim) you need someone constantly to keep reminding you that you are somebody, you should do this... keep doing, don't stop... because that is the most crucial time for recovery.

If you don't have that support system you will relapse and go back to your old ways. That's why AA's needed Malcolm and MLK.

Because when you are a victim of abuse you need a STRONG support to bring you OUT of the abuse.
And as I said, AA's had and lost it, that is why we are in the state we are in.

Some people just don't deserve further education...this goes for anybody acting like this when they're supposed to be learning and be mature(IE UK).

reply to post by Q2IN2Y


Give it a rest. Most of these people were in their 20s, meaning that they were born in the 80s and 90s, 100 years after slavery and 50 years after Jim Crow. Their parents were born in the 60s and 70s, in the height of affirmative action.

Why would a 20 year old black kid today be infused with self hatred? How is the 20 year old black kid confused about his "culture" being destroyed? He has grown up in America, and the American culture is the culture he should identify with. I'm Irish - should I carry around the baggage of the days when "Irish need not apply" signs were posted in business across the country? I could, but that would seem silly since I'm a third generation American and while that period makes for interesting history, has absolutely no relevance today.

The facts are relatively straight forward. By most measures the black community was far healthier in the 1950s than it is today. Rates of divorce were lower than whites, criminal behavior, alcohol and drug abuse relatively the same rates as whites and there was a genuine community that existed that has absolutely been destroyed by the social engineering via the welfare state that has occurred over the past 50 years. I grew up in a NE inner city and all of my black friends had fathers at home. They all had jobs. They were all working to overcome legitimate obsticals that existed due to racism in society, but they were working to overcome them in fundamentally positive ways. Pushing their kids to do well in school, building solid families, engaging in their communities. When you tell folks that they are different and that it is OK for them to feel different and somehow robbed, then, guess what, they will act differently. I guess my childhood experience is illegitimate since it describes black folks who were looking to assimilate into the American society rather than embrace a "uniquely" black one.

The best thing the society can do for the black community is nothing that it does not do for anyone else. There should be no "box checking" for anything, no affirmative action, no race norming. By treating them differently, we have encouraged them to evolve a culture that in many areas of the black community is profoundly anti-social and there is nothing outside of the black community that can correct that and attempts to correct it or to facilitate its correction only retard progress towards correcting it. Listen to Bill Cosby today. He travels the country telling black folks to get their acts together, to stop blaming everyone else for their problems, to get with the program.

I know that you and others will point to my ethnicity (Irish) making it easier to assimilate than an ethnic minority. OK, I'll buy that. How do you explain the amazing success of Asian Americans? How do you explain the large numbers of Asians who immigrated from brutal conditions relatively recently who are achieving great things in America? Kids who's parents escaped the killing fields of Cambodia without speaking a word of English and came to America to start businesses and push their kids to success in academics?

For some reason it is horrible that some "Black culture" has been destroyed - a culture that 99% of all blacks have never experienced. Is that why we're making an excuse for the culture many segments of it have embraced today? If so, we are doing African American's a huge disservice.

I'm going to a friends house tomorrow for a 4th of July party. He's a black gent who's parents immigrated here from Trinidad in the 70s. He flys the Trinidadian flag (below the American flag) at his house and wears a lapel pin with the Trinidadian flag on it. Why? Because he wants to distance himself from the negative elements of the US born AA community.

Spend a bit of time chatting with a black person who is a recent arrival to this country. Talk with someone from Ghana or Nigeria. They are disgusted by the behavior they see in the "hip hop segments of the US AA culture. They are proud of their heritage and they will laugh and tell you that a 20 year old black kid has no more of a connection to Africa than I do. They find it comical. Sad, yet comical and they don't understand it. Where are these folks going Tuesday? To work. Where are they going after work? Home to their families. What are they going to do once they get home? Spend time with their kids and ensure they do their homework. They are going to do the same thing I am going to do. There is absolutely no difference between black and white folks, not emotionally, not intellectually.

As I said in my earlier post, the best thing we can do regarding these situations is avoid them and the best thing we can do to assist AAs is to ignore the "uniqueness" of their culture that was manufactured and jammed down their throats.

You may think that society should open up and allow the modern day black culture to be fully integrated and that it is a fundamental flaw with society at large that it has been unable to do that. If you do, you are wrong.

if you trwat your own race as food,a source of revenue or as bait,why should another rae halp you?If you do that to your own neighbors,what would you do to someone different?...

Originally posted by Q2IN2Y
reply to post by dragonseeker

 

When you have no sense of self, you need someone to show you the way.

Did you learn to walk on your own. Did you learn to ride a bike by yourself? You taught yourself how to read?

Did you teach yourself how to behave in public? I'm guessing you knew instinctively to wash your hands after using the restroom, or how to wipe yourself.

No, because when you were born you had no sense of self, you needed someone to show you... and overtime you developed into your own self.

AA's, while not babies in mindset, needed that guidance that a child needs in their early years for lack of self. When you are a victim of abuse, (and typically the goal for the abuser is to take away the SENSE of SELF of the victim) you need someone constantly to keep reminding you that you are somebody, you should do this... keep doing, don't stop... because that is the most crucial time for recovery.

If you don't have that support system you will relapse and go back to your old ways. That's why AA's needed Malcolm and MLK.

Because when you are a victim of abuse you need a STRONG support to bring you OUT of the abuse.
And as I said, AA's had and lost it, that is why we are in the state we are in.

edit on 3-7-2011 by Q2IN2Y because: (no reason given)

understood, but, I REJECT that victimhood, in recovery type of existence. period. It, itself is used as weapon to keep us down. I am SO SICK of the "oh, poor-mr-black-man-he-needs-a-hand-up-give-him-scraps-from-our-table", head-patting, paternalistic treatment I've gotten from white "liberals". it's disgusting. I will not live in the box society has laid out for me. won't do it. god help anyone who tries it now, I'm fully awake. we can go back and forth, but I think we'll just have to disagree..

I don't embrace victim-hood but I understand factors that create the victim.

Be right back....

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Q2IN2Y

 

Give it a rest. Most of these people were in their 20s, meaning that they were born in the 80s and 90s, 100 years after slavery and 50 years after Jim Crow. Their parents were born in the 60s and 70s, in the height of affirmative action.

Why would a 20 year old black kid today be infused with self hatred? How is the 20 year old black kid confused about his "culture" being destroyed? He has grown up in America, and the American culture is the culture he should identify with. I'm Irish - should I carry around the baggage of the days when "Irish need not apply" signs were posted in business across the country? I could, but that would seem silly since I'm a third generation American and while that period makes for interesting history, has absolutely no relevance today.

The facts are relatively straight forward. By most measures the black community was far healthier in the 1950s than it is today. Rates of divorce were lower than whites, criminal behavior, alcohol and drug abuse relatively the same rates as whites and there was a genuine community that existed that has absolutely been destroyed by the social engineering via the welfare state that has occurred over the past 50 years. I grew up in a NE inner city and all of my black friends had fathers at home. They all had jobs. They were all working to overcome legitimate obsticals that existed due to racism in society, but they were working to overcome them in fundamentally positive ways. Pushing their kids to do well in school, building solid families, engaging in their communities. When you tell folks that they are different and that it is OK for them to feel different and somehow robbed, then, guess what, they will act differently. I guess my childhood experience is illegitimate since it describes black folks who were looking to assimilate into the American society rather than embrace a "uniquely" black one.

The best thing the society can do for the black community is nothing that it does not do for anyone else. There should be no "box checking" for anything, no affirmative action, no race norming. By treating them differently, we have encouraged them to evolve a culture that in many areas of the black community is profoundly anti-social and there is nothing outside of the black community that can correct that and attempts to correct it or to facilitate its correction only retard progress towards correcting it. Listen to Bill Cosby today. He travels the country telling black folks to get their acts together, to stop blaming everyone else for their problems, to get with the program.

I know that you and others will point to my ethnicity (Irish) making it easier to assimilate than an ethnic minority. OK, I'll buy that. How do you explain the amazing success of Asian Americans? How do you explain the large numbers of Asians who immigrated from brutal conditions relatively recently who are achieving great things in America? Kids who's parents escaped the killing fields of Cambodia without speaking a word of English and came to America to start businesses and push their kids to success in academics?

For some reason it is horrible that some "Black culture" has been destroyed - a culture that 99% of all blacks have never experienced. Is that why we're making an excuse for the culture many segments of it have embraced today? If so, we are doing African American's a huge disservice.

I'm going to a friends house tomorrow for a 4th of July party. He's a black gent who's parents immigrated here from Trinidad in the 70s. He flys the Trinidadian flag (below the American flag) at his house and wears a lapel pin with the Trinidadian flag on it. Why? Because he wants to distance himself from the negative elements of the US born AA community.

Spend a bit of time chatting with a black person who is a recent arrival to this country. Talk with someone from Ghana or Nigeria. They are disgusted by the behavior they see in the "hip hop segments of the US AA culture. They are proud of their heritage and they will laugh and tell you that a 20 year old black kid has no more of a connection to Africa than I do. They find it comical. Sad, yet comical and they don't understand it. Where are these folks going Tuesday? To work. Where are they going after work? Home to their families. What are they going to do once they get home? Spend time with their kids and ensure they do their homework. They are going to do the same thing I am going to do. There is absolutely no difference between black and white folks, not emotionally, not intellectually.

As I said in my earlier post, the best thing we can do regarding these situations is avoid them and the best thing we can do to assist AAs is to ignore the "uniqueness" of their culture that was manufactured and jammed down their throats.

You may think that society should open up and allow the modern day black culture to be fully integrated and that it is a fundamental flaw with society at large that it has been unable to do that. If you do, you are wrong.

You rebutted your stance on your own.

Pay attention to the underlined and especially the bolded.

AA's are (off the top of my head) the only bastard race on this planet. We have no foundation we can draw upon and fall back upon. The Trini you mention, he has a foundation and culture to honor and fall back upon. As do the Asians. Yes they may come here with nothing, but they have a history, culture and expectation to uphold. AA's do not have this.

AA's are and were never fully accepted by America. Yeah I know we have a black (well half) President, but all you have to do is observe some of the comments in this thread to see that racism isn't dead. It's merely gone underground because it isn't PC to be a racist now.

Concerning what was on video, that was nothing, I actually believe most of them were West Indian, and could only be gladiator sport. If it was serious there would have been shooting.

It isn't as though ALL males do not engage in this stuff...errr...actually there are probably plenty on this site that didn't have the "sack" to flex their muscles. As I said, I was involved in this type stuff in school AND while I was enlisted in the Army! Males do this type thing.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


I fundamentally disagree with the notion that AAs have no culture upon which to fall back on. Now it might be an uncomfortable one, being, at least at the time they were brought here, tribal and a society where blacks sold blacks into slavery (as they are doing today) and they can certainly fall back on that. I don't think that would be a wise strategy, in the same way I don't think Italians falling back to the days of Caesar productive or the Spanish looking to the days of Cortez as a historical model.

I don't know of a single white person who seeks to "fall back" on century old history to maintain a sense of self worth. Why is that?

There are groups of people who will never accept people of a different group, period and there is nothing that can be done about that.

As far as blacks not being embraced by American society, so me a single society on this planet where a minority of 11% has achieved anything close to what African Americans have achieved in this country. Just a couple of examples

President
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of State
Attorney General
National Security Advisor
Surgeon General
Head of the federal mortage (Fannie and Freddy mac)
CEO of American Express (substitute any company of that size and brand for another country)
CEO of Merril Lynch
CEO of Merck Pharma
CEO of Xerox
CEO of Citigroup
CEO of Alcoa
CEO of Aetna

By the way, the companys listed are obviously the Mega corporations of the US and they are also led by white boards and predominately white shareholders, all of who elected those AAs to the role of CEO. These are all CEO roles that have tremendous juice - and they are all roles that require extremely capable people -- in otherwords, each one of these folks were given their jobs for 1 reason and that was that they were the best.

Black entertainers, entertainment not being like atheletics as it is an occupation that is totally voluntary - in other words, nobody has to go to see a Will Smith movie. He's not the best, because "best" is totally subjective where as sports is objective, by and large. Black entertainers are among the most successful in society - far beyond their representation in the population at large when impact and income are viewed.

Blacks have been enormously successful in American society, something every American should be proud of. Proud because we should all be proud of the achievements of every American. The perscription to be successful here is not too difficult. Get an education, stay off drugs, don't have kids out of wedlock, stay out of trouble and work hard. Listen to a speach from Colin Powell who grew up in the Bronx. Thats what he did. He worked his ass off and could easily have been elected as the first black president. What didn't he do? Sit around complaining about how he did not have some culture that he never experienced to identify with. He did have a culture and one that he is enormously proud of. He's an American

reply to post by DZAG Wright


African-americans are decendants of africans. we are not a bastard race, africa is where we originated. our history didn't start when we landed at plymouth rock, it just continued..

reply to post by dragonseeker


Not all blacks that use the tag african-american are from africa....and not all drone/thugs that participate in violence and lawlessness(flashmobbing) are underprivildedged and cast off kids of crackheads....but if you listen to them,they al sure seem to think so...victims of The Man...

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that AAs have no culture upon which to fall back on. Now it might be an uncomfortable one, being, at least at the time they were brought here, tribal and a society where blacks sold blacks into slavery (as they are doing today) and they can certainly fall back on that. I don't think that would be a wise strategy, in the same way I don't think Italians falling back to the days of Caesar productive or the Spanish looking to the days of Cortez as a historical model.

I don't know of a single white person who seeks to "fall back" on century old history to maintain a sense of self worth. Why is that?

There are groups of people who will never accept people of a different group, period and there is nothing that can be done about that.

As far as blacks not being embraced by American society, so me a single society on this planet where a minority of 11% has achieved anything close to what African Americans have achieved in this country. Just a couple of examples

President
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of State
Attorney General
National Security Advisor
Surgeon General
Head of the federal mortage (Fannie and Freddy mac)
CEO of American Express (substitute any company of that size and brand for another country)
CEO of Merril Lynch
CEO of Merck Pharma
CEO of Xerox
CEO of Citigroup
CEO of Alcoa
CEO of Aetna

By the way, the companys listed are obviously the Mega corporations of the US and they are also led by white boards and predominately white shareholders, all of who elected those AAs to the role of CEO. These are all CEO roles that have tremendous juice - and they are all roles that require extremely capable people -- in otherwords, each one of these folks were given their jobs for 1 reason and that was that they were the best.

Black entertainers, entertainment not being like atheletics as it is an occupation that is totally voluntary - in other words, nobody has to go to see a Will Smith movie. He's not the best, because "best" is totally subjective where as sports is objective, by and large. Black entertainers are among the most successful in society - far beyond their representation in the population at large when impact and income are viewed.

Blacks have been enormously successful in American society, something every American should be proud of. Proud because we should all be proud of the achievements of every American. The perscription to be successful here is not too difficult. Get an education, stay off drugs, don't have kids out of wedlock, stay out of trouble and work hard. Listen to a speach from Colin Powell who grew up in the Bronx. Thats what he did. He worked his ass off and could easily have been elected as the first black president. What didn't he do? Sit around complaining about how he did not have some culture that he never experienced to identify with. He did have a culture and one that he is enormously proud of. He's an American

We'll have to respectfully disagree on the culture thing. I feel as though AA's have no culture anyone would want to uphold and be proud of. Our history of being Afrikan was COMPLETELY wiped from our collective. The only thing we have in common with Afrika in general is skin color and genetics.

An Irish, German, Scott, Korean...every OTHER race in America has a history and more important a connection to their home country. Afrikans had the culture beat out of them. So our history begins when we stepped off of the boats. (Disregarding the Afrikan history that has been burned down and buried and generally hidden from black people. Including the fact that there were black people already free and in America who were later killed or turned into slaves also). Being able to speak the language of your native country is a hugely prideful thing, it's one of the ways you identify with your roots. Every other race has this luxury.

The white person you've never seen who had a need to fall back on their roots and culture...it's because America IS their roots and culture. Yeah, yeah whites are broken into England, Scotland, Ireland, etc., but they have all mixed effectively squashing any prejudices that may have previously existed. What does a white person look like now saying hurtful things about Irish when their great grandmother married an Irish man?

Black people do not have this luxury. Yes there are many of us that have white in our ancestory, some more and more apparent than others, but by and large, you're either black or white. And no, a light complexion on a black person does not make them white. They may be more accepted than blacks with dark complexion of course.

All the accomplishments you listed, looking outside my door, must mean nothing. Even President and by the way most forums you go to will have some thread (three years after his election) where folk are STILL trying to declare him a terrorist! No matter what a black person accomplish, when it comes down to it, he/she will be reminded that they are a N-word when they step on the wrong toes (O.J., Michael, countless others).

So in a way, you're right, America will give black Americans a chance to shine for a while, but it's always just an audition. Let them say anything pro-black...and the next thing you know they've been made an enemy of the state. To make it to those positions mentioned, a black person has to sell their soul to white, corporate America and turn their backs on black America. Yeah every black person knows this, but not every black person is willing to do this. The people you named were.

Though...while writing this it hit me like a bolt. The answer for black people is to just stop seeing themselves as "black" and just see themselves as "Americans".

I digress...

Originally posted by dragonseeker
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

African-americans are decendants of africans. we are not a bastard race, africa is where we originated. our history didn't start when we landed at plymouth rock, it just continued..

Of course we're not a actual bastard race, it was the term that popped into my mind.

However we who are several generations removed from Afrika have....minimum claim to Afrika when it comes down to it. And believe me, I've tried for years to work that angle. If we were to return to Afrika we would face discrimination similar to what we have here.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Wow, so, anyone who wants a high position in american life is a sellout, huh? And that, right there, encapsulates the hell black folks get from other black folks for achieving anything at all in america. when you say "sell their soul" you're just using polite language for oreo, house 'n-word', and so forth. it's the worst kind of, first of all, factually incorrect, but furthermore, self-hating, self-defeatist thinking that KEEPS US DOWN. It's that kind of vicious attack on black folks by black folks that keep black folks from going forward as a whole, instead of the splintered mess we have now. jewish people were enslaved, but they overcame and work as one big unit. same with asians, and, hell africans too. all these cultures come here with pocket change and own businesses of their own in 10 years or less, and get on with their lives..only black folks INSIST on attacking our best and brightest as inauthentic and sellouts..and, yeah, I have actually gotten to the point where I consider myself an american of african descent, not "black" at all. if you think about it, "black" is meaningless. I'm american. I have no connection to the people calling themselves black nowadays, as they themselves remind me every time I use proper grammar, instead of screaming "yo yo wuzzup nigga". they think they're keepin' it real, and they are...

real #ing stupid.

Is it ok if I come back to this thread...? will I get censored again??? only time will tell. We should change the title to mod on account violence! And to think, I never said one racist OR hateful thing. Who was the guy recording the second part? Was he black too?

Quite a disturbing amount of racism apparent on this thread. It's like I'm a tourist at an ignorance museum where all archaic, white supremacist drivel is on display.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

Sigh...I hate to do this but you obviously did not read the entire thread. Go back one page and read my entire port.

Again I will say that the perpetrators of this fight HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CARNIVAL nor did they have any real ties to the West Indian community.

These were neighborhood thugs/gangs fighting and unfortunately the fight spilled over and into the carnival.

The carnival runs annually on Georgia Avenue for aprox. the past 10 year and NEVER has such as thing as this happened.

Educate yourself dude.