It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Interesting Explanation of Cloud Holes

page: 1
2

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 06:24 AM
link   
Essentially what they are saying is that the planes are causing a cascade reaction of ice formation which can spread across the sky for hours after a plane has flown through it. It is an elegent explanation, and the science seems to add up. What do we think?


Source Article




posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Shamatt
 
Yes I heard about that yesterday on NPR,they also stated that the planes are the cause of hole-punch clouds.Don't buy that theory
Not sure I believe any of it,could it be a cover for the weather patterns caused by chemtrails.Planes are the cause for this much interference in the weather?I mean how many years have we had planes in the air?wouldn't they have found this out a long time ago?



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 12:48 PM
link   
Microwaves are being used to open up clouds so satellites can get images.

The holes in the clouds are man made. You could detect the microwaves if you are standing under those holes in the clouds.

So they can spray all the "chemtrails" they want....scientists figured out how to open up clouds.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 07:09 PM
link   
I've never heard of or seen hole punch clouds either but they must be a source of concern if msm is taking the time to 'explain' them for us. I had never seen halos or metallic rainbows or 'sun dogs' or all the other wierd clouds that are so normal today either. I would agree that something is causing them - your guess as good as mine - but airplanes, by themselves, seems like a stretch. Gave you an s&f anyway because I like your thread. And btb (by the by) hope they're not neo paint. Don't have time today to go verify every photo/video. And if, what was it? National Geographic? is using photo shop I guess it's time to start looking in the archives for what else might be wrong.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:20 PM
link   
Here is a good explanation for hole punch clouds..


A “Hole Punch” cloud is a non-technical name given to a cloud formed from an aircraft dissipation hole or trail. They are also called "Punch Hole" clouds. Rather than extending as a line, Hole Punch clouds appear as a circular or oval hole in a deck or thin layer of supercooled water clouds. They are not uncommon where jet flight paths intersect altocumulus layers. What is uncommon is when they form in a perfect circle that persists for a length of time to be widely observed.

On December 11, 2003 that’s exactly what happened along the central Gulf Coast. A remarkably circular and persistent Hole Punch cloud formed over Mobile, Alabama at lunchtime. Numerous curious people photographed it. The event was so much a topic of conversation that it was the top local news story of the day.


www.weatherthings.com...

There are other things there that will help you learn about this event in the clouds..



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by Pervius
Microwaves are being used to open up clouds so satellites can get images.

The holes in the clouds are man made. You could detect the microwaves if you are standing under those holes in the clouds.

So they can spray all the "chemtrails" they want....scientists figured out how to open up clouds.


It is an interesting theory, but I have not seen any evidence for this and have certainly spent enough time looking into it. Got any additional info I can look at, I would be fascinated!



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:37 PM
link   
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Good link, thanks for that.
I think the National Geographic article explaines this pretty well. The way the hole continues to grow for long after the plane has departed etc....



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 09:00 PM
link   
How far back does this cloud hole phenomenon date back? I have never heard it it before. If it turns out to be just something that has started to happen in the past few years then that rules out the planes. What is the oldest reported sightings? The past few years only than forget planes. If there has beed reported sightings lets back a hundred years then that as well rules out planes.

OK, I just pulled up a bunch of could punch pictures on line but there is something funny about the hundreds I seen. Not one had a jet contrail running though it or to or from it for that matter. If jets cause them then why is there no jet contrail running right though the middle of the thing?
edit on 7/1/2011 by fixer1967 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 09:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Shamatt
 


i heard that on the CBC the other day. Interesting stuff. I'm sure all the UFO true believers will reject it, out-of-hand.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 09:36 PM
link   
reply to post by fixer1967
 

I did the same as you and found the bulk of them from 2007 on with some from earlier 2000's and one from 1993 in Melbourne. One of them had a contrail running through it. They've been front page news, apparently in the last years since 2007 all over the world so can't be that common. Couldn't find any information on the origin of 'hole punch' clouds or 'punch hole' clouds except that someone thinks maybe some meteorologist coined the word trying to explain something on the front page. There are some vague references to scientists 'wondering' about them in the 1940's. Also some wierd now gone attempt to call them donuts or canals.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:03 PM
link   
reply to post by luxordelphi
 


So nothing really before 2007? I find it very very odd that some many such weird things are showing up that have little or no history to them past a few years back. This cloud thing, the two suns deal and the moon mess and there are others. They all for the most part seem to only have started in the past 5 to 10 years and like the two suns thing only in the past year. OK, I am getting off topic here. Sorry about that.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:13 PM
link   
its a mix of real weather and weather manipulated by man.

thats impossible

10 min in
edit on 1-7-2011 by m.red because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:18 PM
link   
reply to post by fixer1967
 

Topic was: an explanation of them (hole punch or punch hole clouds) from National Geographic saying they're caused by airplanes. Since that explanation seems odd to me and also the notation on many sites about how rare they are also seems odd because of the many many instances all over the world. That it's new would make sense because ho-hum doesn't usually make the front page or have meteorologists in various newscasts explaining them. So I'm still with you in that it's phenomena in our age as a sign of the times or our having come into a different configuration, a closer configuration, with our binary and that's having some unusual effects. Not sure if the binary thing is now not news because I still remember the story saying we 'may' be a binary system - 2 - two suns.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 09:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shamatt

Originally posted by Pervius
Microwaves are being used to open up clouds so satellites can get images.

The holes in the clouds are man made. You could detect the microwaves if you are standing under those holes in the clouds.

So they can spray all the "chemtrails" they want....scientists figured out how to open up clouds.


It is an interesting theory, but I have not seen any evidence for this and have certainly spent enough time looking into it. Got any additional info I can look at, I would be fascinated!
Yeah how would you detect microwaves? What's required is a heat source, and we know planes provide those, and in theory microwaves could do it but as Shamatt said, where's your source?

The closest thing I found was this article speculating that one hole punch cloud over Moscow may have been the result of cloud seeding, but it's speculative as the Russian military didn't confirm it (though apparently they didn't deny it either):

www.meteorologynews.com...

It thus seems reasonable that the disturbance that caused last week’s hole punch cloud could reasonably be assumed to have been efforts by the Russian Air Force to test out its most recent cloud-seeding efforts in anticipation of the upcoming winter. The Russian military has offered no confirmation of such suspicion.


Even if it happened during a cloud seeding operation, how would they know it was the cement dust (or whatever seeding material they used, they've used cement dust before according to that article) or the heat from the planes engines caused it?

It could be caused by any disturbance, like a thermal (or a microwave generator but I've seen no evidence to support that claim), so they don't all have to be caused by planes. It's a "domino effect" that can cause it to spread:

hole punch clouds


A fallstreak hole, also known as a hole punch cloud, punch hole cloud, canal cloud or cloud hole, is a large circular gap that can appear in cirrocumulus or altocumulus clouds. Such holes are formed when the water temperature in the clouds is below freezing but the water has not frozen yet due to the lack of ice nucleation particles (see supercooled water). When a portion of the water does start to freeze it will set off a domino effect, due to the Bergeron process, causing the water vapor around it to freeze and fall to the earth as well. This leaves a large, often circular, hole in the cloud.
Anyone who doubts planes can cause these, please explain your understanding of the Bergeron process and why you think this isn't responsible.

Let me provide a video demonstration of how this domino process works in another situation. By the way I'm not promoting these products, I'm just using this video to demonstrate the type of physics involved in hole punch clouds which is very similar to the type of physics involved in this video:

Reusable Hand Warmers:

Watch the video at 15 seconds when they click a little clicker inside the fluid. the click makes the tiniest amount of heat, but it's enough to cause a domino effect or chain reaction. That heat causes crystals to form, which releases more heat, which causes more crystals to form...this is exactly the physics in hole punch clouds except the fluid is air with tiny water droplets turning to solid ice instead of a supersaturated salt solution turning to solid. In both cases once the heat is released it creates the domino effect, or chain reaction.

Note that by 23 seconds into the video, the solids formed are roughly the same shape (circular) as a hole punch cloud, see that? It's physics in motion and basically the same physics in hand warmers as in hole punch clouds though the details are different. You can ignore the rest of the video after 30 seconds.


Originally posted by fixer1967
If jets cause them then why is there no jet contrail running right though the middle of the thing?
What makes you think there should be a contrail? They only form under certain conditions.

You are also assuming the jet flies right through them. That's not necessarily the case, though it could be in some cases. The hole might be caused by a jet without it flying through the hole.
edit on 2-7-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:53 AM
link   
Bergeron process is an explanation for precipitation I think. The explanation went on to explain the interactions between different fronts and was used to try to predict weather. I read that this process was postulated in the 1930's.

Hole punch clouds/punch hole clouds from what I've found on the web are an escalating phenomena with many occurrences making front page news across the globe 2000's on.

Planes have been flying since I think 1903 with the Wright Bros. The Bergeron process was pulled in to try to explain the snow in Denver in 2007 where a plane-full of scientists just happened to be on hand and actually in the two planes supposedly responsible to witness a dramatic formation of a hole punch cloud and snowfall specific to the airplane's track.

There were a lot of questions from onlookers then and apparently every time it happened so explanations had to be made. Planes have been around for a long time. Cloud seeding has been around for a long time. I'd never heard of a hole punch cloud/punch hole cloud before and so apparently hadn't a lot of other people because no explanations need to be given for phenomena that's not happening.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:09 PM
link   
reply to post by fixer1967
 


Just want to be clear that it is my thought, not yours, and only my thought that a binary system at closest approach could cause strange phenomena. Didn't mean to involve you in my speculation or make it seem as though we were agreeing on something. Peace.



new topics

top topics



 
2

log in

join