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Anyone have Pictures of Northrops Plane that lost the F-117 and Locheed's B-2 as well

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posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 11:48 PM
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I have a pretty large collection of aviation books and It struck me the other day that I have seen only 1 picture of the Northrop entry that lost it to the F-117.

However, Lockheed accoding to Ben Rich had designed basically a smaller version of the winning Northrop plane for the bomber comp. I have never seen a picture of it. I have always wondered if it was the basis for the TR-3A flying wing rumors.

Considering planes like Tacit Blue et al are now open, why the lack of even a picture or artist rendering of the failed Lockheed design?

Does anybody have a picture of either of these planes?
Thanks




posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
I have a pretty large collection of aviation books and It struck me the other day that I have seen only 1 picture of the Northrop entry that lost it to the F-117.

However, Lockheed accoding to Ben Rich had designed basically a smaller version of the winning Northrop plane for the bomber comp. I have never seen a picture of it. I have always wondered if it was the basis for the TR-3A flying wing rumors.

Considering planes like Tacit Blue et al are now open, why the lack of even a picture or artist rendering of the failed Lockheed design?

Does anybody have a picture of either of these planes?
Thanks


I've looked in to the same thing I know the F-117 evolved directly from the Have Blue XST. Here's the only picture of the Northrop XST I've ever found (not very clear or detailed):



As for the Lockeed Stealth Bomber, I can't find a picture of it right now. I saw a sketch of it somewhere once, but I don't remember where. The Lockheed ATB looked simular to the B-2 except that it had small inward canted fins simular to those on the Have Blue. It's very hard to find a picture but they do exist!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 11:45 PM
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Cool, I have the Northrop pic, but I would love to see a pic of the actual RCS testing model.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:15 AM
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I was searching but there doesn't seem to be a lot of these pics out there I couldn't find anything from the testing stages. Anyone else have better luck than me?



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 04:34 AM
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The first RCS test was conducted in 1975 with a model plane called the Hopless Diamond.Skunk Works engineers created a ten-foot wooden model dubbed the "Hopeless Diamond". The model was taken to an outdoor radar test range on the Mojave Desert near Palmdale. The model was mounted on a 12-foot high pole, and the radar dish zeroed in from about 1,500 feet away. The site radar operator could not see the model on the radar, until a black bird landed right on top of the Hopeless Diamond. The radar was only picking up the bird.



HAVE BLUE (below)





posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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The other part of that story was the pole was giving a return higher that the aircraft. Lockheed designed a new pole that did not show up as much. TOne of Northrops directors turned to John Cashen, thier stealth guru and said "If they can do that with the friggen pole, what can they do with the model?"



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 10:17 AM
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I knew that they existed! Here are some pictures of Lockeed's ATB, which was Code Named Senior Peg:

Three way drawing:




Artist's Impression:




According to a book I have on the history of the B-2, the Northorp design won the crontract because it held a signifigante advantage in Stealth, Range and Payload over the Lockheed design, and because Northrop has a significant edge in experince with the flying wing design over Lockheed.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 11:40 AM
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I agree Ghost about Northrop having a significant edge in experince with the flying wing design over Lockheed. Once again proving a impressive knowledge of aircraft history Ghost

Northrop XB-35



Jack Northtrop developed his pet flying-wing project, the visionary concept of which, stalled by bureaucracy at the time. Besides the Horton brothers it was Jack that was the biggest advocate of the benifits of the flying wing design.

Its interesting in 1927 Jack worked for Lockheed there designing the original Vega. However, needing to develop his own ideas about all-metal airplanes, he struck off on his own in 1929 to form Northrop Aircraft Co

[edit on 19-8-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by ghost
I knew that they existed! Here are some pictures of Lockeed's ATB, which was Code Named Senior Peg:
According to a book I have on the history of the B-2, the Northorp design won the crontract because it held a signifigante advantage in Stealth, Range and Payload over the Lockheed design, and because Northrop has a significant edge in experince with the flying wing design over Lockheed.


Great find TIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben Rich's autobio paints a different picture (not surprising) he states the Skunk Works model was the stealthier of the two, but the Northrop model had the edge in payload and range. The AF told him that the went with the Northrup design becuase 1 could do the job of 2 Lockheed models and thus have more risk. If this is true maybe they spread the wealth a little and did not want all of thier stealth eggs in one basket.


jra

posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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What an interesting thread. I had never thought about the aircraft that were competing against the F-117 and the B-2.

Does anyone know if Lockheed actually built a test version of there flying wing? Or did it not get past the design stage? Same with the Northrop F-117 equivalent. It looks like they built a test model, but did they have an actual working aircraft?

It would be great to get more info (and pictures!) on both the designs from Lockheed and Northrop. I guess there wasn't much info released about them since they were black projects back in the day, but since the B-2 and F-117 are well known now. I wonder if one could contact both of them and ask if they could release more info on those failed projects?



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 06:31 PM
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Ghost that looks like a 1950's Design. For Lockheeds ATB, maybe even 40's.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by jra
Does anyone know if Lockheed actually built a test version of there flying wing? Or did it not get past the design stage? Same with the Northrop F-117 equivalent. It looks like they built a test model, but did they have an actual working aircraft?


We know that the Northrop AST project got as far as a pole model as did the Lockheed ATB. Neither one was made into a actual flying model. However, I know people disagree with me on this one. But there may be a link with the Lockheed model and the TR-3A


jra

posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 01:46 AM
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Well I did some searching on my own. Found a site here on Lockheed's ATB, complete with a little CG rendering. It looks a lot like the B-2.

members.macconnect.com...

That's all I could find that seemed interesting.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by jra
Well I did some searching on my own. Found a site here on Lockheed's ATB, complete with a little CG rendering. It looks a lot like the B-2.
members.macconnect.com...
That's all I could find that seemed interesting.


Another good find! Well done Jra. It was an interesting read!



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:39 PM
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Tacit Blue, nicknamed "the whale," featured a straight tapered wing with a Vee tail mounted on an oversized fuselage with a curved shape. The aircraft has a wingspan of 48.2 feet and a length of 55.8 feet and weighed 30,000 pounds. It had a single crewmember the pilot.

A single flush inlet on the top of the fuselage provided air to two high-bypass turbofan engines. Tacit Blue employed a quadruply redundant, digital fly by wire flight control system to help stabilize the aircraft about the longitudinal and directional axes.

The aircraft made its first flight in February 1982, and subsequently logged 135 flights over a three year period. The aircraft often flew three to four flights weekly and several times flew more than once a day. The aircraft has been in storage since 1985.









www.edwards.af.mil...

[edit on 20-8-2004 by mad scientist]



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 12:54 AM
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Tacit Blue helped Northrop with the concept of Curved Stealth. However, there is some evidence that the plane was used operationaly in Iran. It does look like Tacit Blue in the picture.





In June, a UFO was photographed by 16-year-old Jamshid Saiadipour in the town of Sheraz.
The photo caused a stir among ufologists because it resembled a UFO reported by pilots during their landing approach to the Teheran airport earlier in the year.
On October 8, the same year,1978, a similar craft was photographed was photographed by young Franklin Youri outside his home near Lake Urmia in western Iran.




posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Tacit Blue helped Northrop with the concept of Curved Stealth. However, there is some evidence that the plane was used operationaly in Iran. It does look like Tacit Blue in the picture.





In June, a UFO was photographed by 16-year-old Jamshid Saiadipour in the town of Sheraz.
The photo caused a stir among ufologists because it resembled a UFO reported by pilots during their landing approach to the Teheran airport earlier in the year.
On October 8, the same year,1978, a similar craft was photographed was photographed by young Franklin Youri outside his home near Lake Urmia in western Iran.



Maybe it was developed into some kind of spy plane. Remember, it was origionally built to for survallance.

Tim
ATS Directer of Counter-Ignorace



posted on Aug, 31 2004 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by ghost
Maybe it was developed into some kind of spy plane. Remember, it was origionally built to for survallance.


Maybe 1978 the Shaw was still in controll. Maybe they flew against Soviet Radar Systems to test it in a real world environment?



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