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3 students die after being hypnotized by principal

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posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
So can somebody please explain to me why
a principal needs to hypnotize 75 people ???


He probably abuses them and is trying to make them forget it.

Going by the suicides, I'd say it didn't work.




posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 07:46 AM
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Reguardless of whether he was resoponsible for the deaths or not, what gives him the authority to hypnotise anyone? If I found out someone was trying to mess with my kids minds like that I would be furious!



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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There seems to be a lot of missunderstandinng on this thread regarding what hypnotism is and what it can do. I trained as a hypnotherapist, although I do not surerntly practice.
Hypnotism generally can't get you to do anything you don;t want to do.
I cannot hypnotise you and make you kill yourself, that would not be possible. Perhaps with total immersion and prolonged trances over manu month I might, but that is another story (I am not the CIA!!!)lol

It is very unlikely that any of these deaths had anything to do with being hypnotised. It really is a very safe practice. Of course, you have to know what you are doing.

I once heard of a story where someone whent to see a hypnotist be ause she was scared of bussy roads. She was run over the next week becasue the hypnotist removed ALL of that fear, even that which was reasonable and would have stopped her from just walking straight out into the road!

I would add, that I feel the school setting is no place for hypnotism. I think this teacher is doing the wrong thinng, but I do not feel he is in any way responsible.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Boon,

I do think there is something to the link of the deaths to the hypnosis.

The reports say that each death happened shortly following the hynotism, so without
an investigation, the affect of the hypnosis, and the aspects of how it could affect the students is
not known, and can not be dismissed out of hand.

It goes without saying that a psychology teacher should not have the authority to
hypnotize students, the fact that the teacher has lied shows he has a lot to hide.


His use of the practice, widely known at the school, came under scrutiny after Kenney acknowledged he had hypnotized Wesley McKinley , 16, the day before the teenager killed himself in April.

But he had denied using the technique on Brittany Palumbo, 16, who killed herself May 4, or Marcus Freeman, 16, a star quarterback on the high school team, who died in a car crash March 15.

"Dr. Kenney admitted that he lied … and he admitted that he did have sessions with both of the other deceased students," according to the report by Steele Investigations Agency, released this week. abcnews.go.com...




ETA: If the teacher was so sure his hypnosis was safe,
and he was only acting in the best interest
of the students, why did he lie about it?


edit on 1-7-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


A couple of kids per school die every year from car crashes and suicide.

The fact that the principle needed to hypnotize them for something, indicates they were already having an emotional struggle and seeking help.

I highly doubt there is any cause and effect relationship here.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Shamatt
There seems to be a lot of missunderstandinng on this thread regarding what hypnotism is and what it can do. I trained as a hypnotherapist, although I do not surerntly practice.
Hypnotism generally can't get you to do anything you don;t want to do.



What if the students were struggling with suicidal thoughts already?

In the video, it clearly states that the teacher was actively hypnotizing the students to
affect behavior, such as this

"if you get into a car with a person who has been drinking or using
drugs, you will immediately throw up".


So, would this be a normal repsonse by a student to a freind who has been drinking, to throw up?

The parents of the one student said that their child began acting differently immediately following
the hypnotisim. They were very concerned, and shortly thereafter, the child commited suicide.

Its very disturbing, to think that this teacher was using a position of authority to practice
this controversial therapy on the students without oversight.

We have no real idea of what the teacher influenced them to do during the hypnosis.



edit on 1-7-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Klassified
This is a crock of you know what. I have studied and practiced hypnosis for years. While we don't know much about this case, I seriously doubt hypnosis had anything to do with the death of these students.

Nevertheless, this man had no business practicing hypnosis on the job. Especially since he probably is not a board certified hynotherapist.

As to the legitimacy of hypnosis. Ask the many doctors and dentists who are trained in its use how beneficial and effective it is in their practice. While you're at it, ask those same doctors why they send qualified patients to hypnotherapists to learn pain control, and to deal with phobia's among other things.
edit on 6/30/2011 by Klassified because: spelling


Boon, it isn't that I'm unable to see the implications in this story. But from my own experience and training with hypnosis, I believe he would have to be using other mind control techniques with it to accomplish what you suggest in this thread. And it would have to be an ongoing process with each student. There are just some things that don't add up when hypnosis alone is pointed to as the driving factor in these deaths. There's more to the story than what is known at this point. I'm not defending the man. But I'm certainly not ready to convict him for murder either.
edit on 7/1/2011 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


I'm not sure what your point is.

We agree that this techer should not have been doing these things. I expect his methods were pretty susspect. But it is highly unlikely - in fact I would astonishingly unlikely - that there is any connection.

As you say yourself - what if these kids were already suicidal? And think - what type of kids is this teacher goiing to be interested in "helping" - the problem kids of course. Hence the drink driving distraction attempts.

I suppose I could accept that in the case of one of them there is a theoretical possability that a messed up suicidal kid may have been pushed over the edge by a very bad hypnosis experience. But we are speculating to the furthest stretches of the immagination here in my opinion.

I think you should read the threads on here by those who have studied hypnotism. We know a lot anout the subject having been hypnotised, and hypnotised others many times. There are a lot of untruths and rumours about the subject, and you seem to beleive many of them.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Shamatt
reply to post by burntheships
 


I'm not sure what your point is.

We agree that this techer should not have been doing these things. I expect his methods were pretty susspect. But it is highly unlikely - in fact I would astonishingly unlikely - that there is any connection.

As you say yourself - what if these kids were already suicidal? And think - what type of kids is this teacher goiing to be interested in "helping" - the problem kids of course. Hence the drink driving distraction attempts.

I suppose I could accept that in the case of one of them there is a theoretical possability that a messed up suicidal kid may have been pushed over the edge by a very bad hypnosis experience. But we are speculating to the furthest stretches of the immagination here in my opinion.


Thats is my point, as you say, you could accept that in the case of one of them
(why not both suicides?)
"that a messed up kid may have been pushed over the edge by a bad hypnosis experience" .

Thats exactly my point, and even if its only one child.



I think you should read the threads on here by those who have studied hypnotism. We know a lot anout the subject having been hypnotised, and hypnotised others many times. There are a lot of untruths and rumours about the subject, and you seem to beleive many of them.


Indeed, there are a lot of untruths and rumors about hypnosis. However, to set the record straight -

My thoughts on the matter -

If a person is not licensed to treat a problem with non-hypnotic techniques,
he/she should not treat it with hypnosois.





edit on 1-7-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-7-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


I think this story is being sensationalized.

If the deaths happens the day of or after the hypnotism, then, I would be suspicious. No where in the
Ink does it say, but does say that he hypnotizes a lot of people all the time. Where are their takes on this?

Edit: ok so the one student died the day after. That is weird.

edit on 1-7-2011 by emaildogs because: Must read every post



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


how do we know for sure if

"other mind control techniques" were/are not used ?

THAT just may be the key to the answer !

wilder things have happened !



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by boondock-saint
 


A couple of kids per school die every year from car crashes and suicide.

The fact that the principle needed to hypnotize them for something, indicates they were already having an emotional struggle and seeking help.

I highly doubt there is any cause and effect relationship here.


well,

thats what professional psychiatrists are for !

yes ?



Yah..... but were they all hypnotized by "mad scientists" ?


I wonder a big question ..... were any of the "victims" on Ritalin ??????





edit on Jul-01-2011 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Yes, and consider, even just the mere fact that the teacher is an authority figure to the children,
that alone is enough to complicate a "routine" hypnosis.


The most common danger with hypnosis lies primarily outside of the therapeutic context, in situations in which people are not aware that they are in suggestible states. For example, we can be influenced by an authority figure, such as a doctor or other professional, or a political or parental figure. When a person is unduly influenced by an authority, a spontaneous hypnosis can develop and the person may become extremely suggestible. resonancenow.com...



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Shamatt
There seems to be a lot of missunderstandinng on this thread regarding what hypnotism is and what it can do. I trained as a hypnotherapist, although I do not surerntly practice.
Hypnotism generally can't get you to do anything you don;t want to do.
I cannot hypnotise you and make you kill yourself, that would not be possible. Perhaps with total immersion and prolonged trances over manu month I might, but that is another story (I am not the CIA!!!)lol

It is very unlikely that any of these deaths had anything to do with being hypnotised. It really is a very safe practice. Of course, you have to know what you are doing.

I once heard of a story where someone whent to see a hypnotist be ause she was scared of bussy roads. She was run over the next week becasue the hypnotist removed ALL of that fear, even that which was reasonable and would have stopped her from just walking straight out into the road!

I would add, that I feel the school setting is no place for hypnotism. I think this teacher is doing the wrong thinng, but I do not feel he is in any way responsible.



AND,

just what IF..... somebody actually does NOT "know what you are doing" ??? Hmmm

I am not seeing anywhere that this school "principal" was "qualified" to decide anything !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!

definitely a "Dr Jekyll / Mr Hyde" if ya ask me.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Apparently this principle is a licensed hypnotherapist with parental approval. If he had parental approval then maybe the students did have some personal or emotional issues to begin with.


He's a licensed hypnotherapist and published author in the field and even had permission from the 16-year-old boy's parents.


Sources:
www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.wtsp.com...

It still does not elude to the fact that a school principle treating students during school is not an appropriate or professional setting for hypnotherapy. If the students really did have mental health or emotional issues then why were they not referred to an outside therapist or psychologist? I doubt it was motivational in nature since there was an obvious attempt at behavior modification.

It was also neglectful of the students parents to approve such informal treatment to be performed by a school principal in an informal environment (with no charting or audio recording of the treatment sessions that I know of). Although he was licensed, his responsibility was to be a public school principle, not a hypnotherapist. He was not properly equipped to practice hypnotherapy and this should be investigated (whether or not it's related to the deaths.)

I wonder if this principle was "treating" these students privately or in groups. If he was hypnotizing students privately, then I would look into what exactly was occurring during these one-on-one visits. Although I do not believe hypnosis can directly instigate a suicide, I do believe it can indirectly contribute to mental and emotional conditions that can result in a suicide. Hypnosis can be very dangerous in the wrong hands and when used carelessly on susceptible or unstable people.

If anyone has any question regarding the power of hypnosis, look up Milton Ericson. Modern day self help was founded on many of his techniques.


edit on 1-7-2011 by matito because:



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Danbones
 


Well, Im sure I cant be hypnotized. Ive never been to a stage show, but Ive had hypnotists try. I have trust issues, apparently, or at least thats what one said. Im also not susceptible to ads, likely for the same reason. Food ads come the closest, but only if I am already hungry.

And no, I dont get immersed in TV. I watch it, but I dont disappear in it, and Im one of those annoying people pointing out the logical problems with TV and movie plots because I am constantly analyzing what I am seeing rather than being "in" it.

Nor does my brain ever get drunk. My body does, and I will slur or vomit, or lose balance if I drank enough, (which I dont anymore, whats the point if you dont have the loss of metal awareness of what an idiot you are being most people do or the seeming euphoria of the dancing on the table sorts). And thats only the substance we can discuss here. Some people just dont disappear into altered states that easily. If I am conscious, Im aware. I can be drugged to unconsciousness, (as in for a surgery) but there is no la la mental state between awake and asleep for me. Sedatives tend to make me sleepy, but not fog my brain.

Im sure Im not the only one. Human beings vary in susceptibility to all sorts of things, and while it may be very fair to say "most" people, its just not factually correct to say we all are.

Edit to add, And this;


When you see the word "Mensroom" you will suddenly wake up
and remember everthing I made you think feel and do
especially the part where I made you think your penise had disappeared...


Is so much funnier than you might realize.

edit on 30-6-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)


I'm the exact same way. I'm so aware that it usually stays with me in my dreams, and when I wake up, I can usually tell what time it is within ten minutes or so.

It takes a LOT to knock me out. I'm either with it, else passed out.

I suspect some forms of hypnotism could probably work with me, but most don't. Darren Brown could probably mind warp me pretty good. Not sure.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


Stage hypnotism and therapeutic (clinical) hypnotism are different from each other. Different trance induction methods and different types of trance states. And hypnotism is only has good as the hypnotist.


Stage hypnosis is a form of entertainment that seeks to amuse an audience by directing willing participants to engage in sometimes silly behavior or stunts under the direction of a stage hypnotist.



Clinical hypnosis is a widely practiced, extensively researched form of brief-term therapy for treating a vast array of psychological, emotional, and physical problems. It is a private, one-on-one, collaborative and interactive therapeutic process that takes place in a safe, comfortable, controlled office setting. During each session, the client enters a natural state of focused relaxation and calm, intentionally induced for therapeutic purposes, through directed dialogue and the application of various hypnotic suggestions and techniques.



edit on 1-7-2011 by matito because:



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by NuclearPaul
He probably abuses them and is trying to make them forget it.
Going by the suicides, I'd say it didn't work.


well that was my original thought
when I posted this.

I wonder how many other people were
present during these hypnosis sessions??
Were the principal and the student alone??
Maybe the cops ought to be asking these
questions. I also wonder if he video recorded
the hypnosis sessions for his protection ???
probably not, hmmmmmm



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
He probably abuses them and is trying to make them forget it.
Going by the suicides, I'd say it didn't work.


well that was my original thought
when I posted this.

I wonder how many other people were
present during these hypnosis sessions??
Were the principal and the student alone??
Maybe the cops ought to be asking these
questions. I also wonder if he video recorded
the hypnosis sessions for his protection ???
probably not, hmmmmmm



From the news cast I saw no one but
the *patient was in the session.

Yes alone.. One kid who played football was interviewed
and he said he was hypnotised to play better.
Said he had his best year.

No video recording that anyone knows about..
edit on 1-7-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by hillynilly
Yes alone.. One kid who played football was interviewed
and he said he was hypnotised to play better.
Said he had his best year.


so please do pray tell
why would a star QB with his best yr
and a bright future,
commit suicide ???

it still does not add up



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