Torturing Children - God help this country

Every demonstration against Bush and Blair is broadcast non-stop in the Arab world. You can't give Al-Jazeera enough images of Americans or Brits protesting about their governments. The only people interested in such demonstrations are our enemies - the people who, when the time comes, will happily kill each and every one of those demonstrators.

So instead of automatically siding with our enemies - believing all that they say and write about us - perhaps you might stop and consider whether they are lying?

Oh no of course, silly me. It is only the US/UK governments that tell lies!

crossfire:

So instead of automatically siding with our enemies - believing all that they say and write about us - perhaps you might stop and consider whether they are lying?

Oh no of course, silly me. It is only the US/UK governments that tell lies!

Don't call anybody else naive when you say things like that.

Of COURSE the other side lies as well, but does it sit well with you that YOUR SIDE is lying to YOU about these things?

Do you not believe the story that started this thread? Need corroboration?

Need to know why this wasn't treated on the US mainstream media outlets?


So what's your question? Do you doubt the German media who broke the story? The International Red Cross who corroborated it?

Because guess what, Norway is thinking about getting out of Iraq because of this abuse.

Funny thing, I missed that on CNN and FOX too.

www.aftenposten.no...

Norway protests child abuse in Iraq

Norwegian authorities reacted with shock and disgust Tuesday to a documentary on German TV that American soldiers allegedly have been holding children in prisons in Iraq, and abusing them as well. The Norwegians joined the Red Cross and Amnesty International in calling for an immediate end to the abuse, and release of the underage prisoners, some of whom are as young as 12 years....

Norwegian authorities plan to review other reports of the abuse by both Amnesty International and Red Cross in detail.

The head of Amnesty International in Norway said Tuesday that Norway should not continue its military cooperation with the US after the reports of child "torture" were revealed.

Most of the more than 100 minors still believed to be held in American-controlled prisons in Iraq were taken into custody after US forces raided their homes.

Looks like not only does Norway have backbone, they have some good moral values.

You are implying a conspiracy between the US media and the government

Well why now and not before when those photos were widely circulated of the abuse of Iraqui prisoners?

Hmmm - if there is one thing more unconvincing than a conspiracy theorist it is someone who is a selective conspiracy theorist.

And no I am not convinced by the Red Cross - it is a political organisation - it has strong views on various issues, and usually sides with terrorists.

It's the same with Guantanamo - unfortunaltely three "British" (only in the passport sense of the word) residents of the camp were released. As soon as they got back they immediately claimed they were tortured - but the evidence is unconvincing to say the least.

Anyone who is a prisoner of the USA (outside of USA) will claim they are totured - either they want money or have a political agenda.

crossfire: Your post is so riddled with inaccuracies, I'll take them one by one.

You are implying a conspiracy between the US media and the government

Well why now and not before when those photos were widely circulated of the abuse of Iraqui prisoners?

Maybe you were out of the country at the time that the story broke. The only reason why the abuse was reported AT ALL was because the media broke it.

Seymour Hersh of the New York Times broke the story, and without him none of this would have seen the light of day.

newyorker.com...

The abuses are also captured on video, according to the Independent.



news.independent.co.uk...

The videos were shown to Congress and sickened them

www.nypost.com...

But they haven't been released to the US public.

And no I am not convinced by the Red Cross - it is a political organisation - it has strong views on various issues, and usually sides with terrorists.

Based on what? Your paranoia? The International Committe for the red Cross sides with terrorists? Ahahaha!

Show me your evidence of this wild accusation.

Is this the reason why Rumsfeld failed to report prisoners to the Red Cross, because they're terrorists? Or because Rumsfeld is?

www.msnbc.msn.com...

It's the same with Guantanamo - unfortunaltely three "British" (only in the passport sense of the word) residents of the camp were released. As soon as they got back they immediately claimed they were tortured - but the evidence is unconvincing to say the least.

Anyone who is a prisoner of the USA (outside of USA) will claim they are totured - either they want money or have a political agenda.

Okay, there is PROOF of these tortures. PROOF. Do a google search for Guantanomo Torture and see for yourself.

You're totally deluding yourself. The rest of the world is out to make up stories to make the USA look bad? It's not the USA at all, it's everyone else in the world?

Do you really believe that? Your OWN country executes minors.

Okay, let's move this on by agreeing that the U.S. does torture prisoners, imprison children, attack other sovereign countries without provocation, the U.S. media colludes with the U.S. government, and the U.S. is bad.

And let's further stipulate that you take great issue with the items stipulated above.

Now/so what?

Originally posted by BOHICA
Okay, let's move this on by agreeing that the U.S. does torture prisoners, imprison children, attack other sovereign countries without provocation, the U.S. media colludes with the U.S. government, and the U.S. is bad.

And let's further stipulate that you take great issue with the items stipulated above.

Now/so what?

So what?
Are you American? Or British? Are you a patriot?

U.

The answer to your question is irrelevant. The real question is Now What?

Assume it's all true, so now what?

Originally posted by BOHICA
The answer to your question is irrelevant. The real question is Now What?

Assume it's all true, so now what?

The answer to my question has relevance to me or I would not have asked it. When you are ready to respect that, we can continue.

U.

It's all very well for the arm chair chickens to cluck everytime a soldier in a combat situation has to get a little rough with the enemy. But it is a failing government that sends its troops abroad to fight fascism and tells them they cannot do anything that might inconvenience the enemy.

Using rough treatment on dangerous prisoners - for the purpose of getting information that may lead us to terrorists in our neighbourhoods is a legitimate act. I have no qualms about these Islamo-fascists getting a good hiding if the end result is it saves lives.

Originally posted by crossfire
Well shame on you - I am proud to be British and a key ally of the USA.

What shames me are those who posses UK pasports but are not "British" in any way

Then you are shamed by our Royal family the windsors who actually come from Germany. You are ashamed of Price Phillips who is actually half greek.

The British are one of biggest immigrants on the world.

if none 100% British having a passport is a problem for you then I suggest you travel the world and bring back those Brits with Aussie passports, Brits with South African passports, Brits with American passports, British who retire/IMMIGRATE in foreign lands because they have had enough of this place. Brits who....yeah you get my drift.

Sounds like you need educating in the lesssons of what goes around comes around, Karma.

Back on topic

These people who still support the war and all these falsehoods are dragging the rest of us into worse situations. Scarey to think they can't see the lies and deception infront of there face. Maybe they don't want to see it? it makes life harder? makes thinking about the world harder?

I hope they snap out of it soon

Forget your labels and your country. This is Earth, if it goes we all go!

[edit on 17-8-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by crossfire
Well shame on you - I am proud to be British and a key ally of the USA.

What shames me are those who posses UK pasports but are not "British" in any way - Muslims who support our enemies and left wingers who want the downfall of the government becuase it wanted to rid the world of the mass murderer Saddam and rmeove the Taliban from Afganistan.

Seems like the US has it's share of those kind of people too!

If you are not proud to be from the country of citizenship/Birth you should leave it - why not try and live in one of the Islamic theoc-crazies? you will soon learn what REAL oppression is all about!

My country will always be immeasurably greater than any government running it. Why would I leave it because of them? Why would I abandon my countrymen without fighting to change the leadership? It seems that your reasoning reflects on you more than it does anyone else. It seems that the moment your government became something you didn't like, you would turn your back on your countrymen. As that's what you are advocating others to do in the current situation. That is cowardly.

You appear to approve of whatever your government chooses to do, right or wrong, as long as you are ok. How selfish. Those on whatever side of the political spectrum have every right to be in your country. You seem to be advocating a dictatorship where if you are not right-wing you should be expelled.

If that were to ever happen, you may just find yourself on the receiving end of a "liberation".

The people it is fighting - mainly Muslims in a number of countries - want to take away your freedoms. They laugh in your face at your support for them. They use your encouragement and as soon as the time is right will happily kill you.

The government is trying to stop the expansion of Islamo-fascism - it is RIGHT to do it. In doing so it allows you to voice your support for Islam as you do here - the irony seems lost on you that the very people you are seeking to defend are the very people who would happily kill you.

My point about holding passports as opposed to being "Citizens" (or "subjects" int he UK) - is that many Muslims in the UK hold British passports - but they are not British. They have a hatred for the country that gives them everything, they may be born, educated and given health protection in Britain but they go and fight with our enemies - their allegiance is only to other Muslims not to the country they live in.

It is a crying shame we are being ruined by this vermin and that Western governments do not round them up and ship them out to the cess, vermin filled Arab countries they so love.

Originally posted by MajicEyes
Torturing Children


What the hell is wrong with our country

W.R. Pitt is an excellent writer. And he tells it like it is. Too bad the zombie mainstream media can't get near his ability and bravery to report what's really happening.

It's pretty simple. Our nation has just about lost its soul. I remember a professor in college driving it into our heads that the key ingredient to our constitution, the thing that makes it work is personal VIRTUE. Without it, the founders believed this democracy would not last. They were incredibly wise.

I for one, cannot believe that there doesn't seem to be much outrage over the whole torture thing (be it adults or children) Too many celebrity distractions, I guess. As a veteran, words cannot truly express the depth of anger and contempt I feel for this administration and their underlings (Pentagon civilians, cowardly ass-kissing officers, mercenaries and the mindless soldiers) for fostering this sadistic atmosphere within the ranks. Heads should roll all the way up the fu**ing chain of command. Those satanically-minded cowards (Pentagon civilians & administration officials) who designed and pushed this catostrophic fiasco should be tried for war crimes. Donald "Dr. Strangelove" Rumsfeld should be thrown into Abu Ghraib for the rest of his unnatural life and guarded by Iraqis. I wonder how big and bad the little blowhard would be if that happened? He'd be squealingand cryin' in no time, like the little bytch he really is.

This is a stain on the honor and professionalism of US Army that will take years to wash away.

Every American should be outraged! If it was your loved ones America, being disappeared and abused, how would you feel?!

Originally posted by crossfire
The people it is fighting - mainly Muslims in a number of countries - want to take away your freedoms. They laugh in your face at your support for them. They use your encouragement and as soon as the time is right will happily kill you.

The government is trying to stop the expansion of Islamo-fascism - it is RIGHT to do it. In doing so it allows you to voice your support for Islam as you do here - the irony seems lost on you that the very people you are seeking to defend are the very people who would happily kill you.

My point about holding passports as opposed to being "Citizens" (or "subjects" int he UK) - is that many Muslims in the UK hold British passports - but they are not British. They have a hatred for the country that gives them everything, they may be born, educated and given health protection in Britain but they go and fight with our enemies - their allegiance is only to other Muslims not to the country they live in.

It is a crying shame we are being ruined by this vermin and that Western governments do not round them up and ship them out to the cess, vermin filled Arab countries they so love.

Do you think you have any stereotypes going here, or do all the Arabs you meet freely describe their passions for a global Caliphate and their deep personal hatred of freedom and the UK?

Originally posted by crossfire
The people it is fighting - mainly Muslims in a number of countries - want to take away your freedoms. They laugh in your face at your support for them. They use your encouragement and as soon as the time is right will happily kill you.

The government is trying to stop the expansion of Islamo-fascism - it is RIGHT to do it. In doing so it allows you to voice your support for Islam as you do here - the irony seems lost on you that the very people you are seeking to defend are the very people who would happily kill you.

O_o???? some ppl are dumb.... aaaaa plz save me they want to take away my freedom..... help!!! ahem.... Our governement (developed country) hold most of their governement freedom and encourage by various way these muslim dictatorship (like in Saoudi arabia (call it monarchy if you want but this governement as nothing to do with any occidental past monarchy)) why? because our economy is based on OIL! and most that ressource is in the middle east area.... our economy being based on oil its very important to keep the price of it low... dictatorship are exellent way of getting things without paying for them

you can easily guess why the ordinary muslim ppl dont see the occidental country with a good eye when you know their governement are maintened by our own troops (saoudi arabia, egypt, afganistan(for pipelines access), etc....Iran was domminated by a dictatorship installed by the USA and UK some decades ago....

if the governement is corrupted you will probably turn your faith (lol) on the religious elite

thats what they do

now suffer Occidental fools! while i take a drink for ya in Singapor

wanna take away your freedom? lets say they are doing it at the Talion law style hahahahaha

and people wonder why alot of the world wants us all dead. i'm not at all shocked by all this. call me a terrorist all you want but what makes us any better than the rest of the world. because we have democracy (which isn't realy freedom when you get down to it)? many "great" empires have fallen in the past and america is no different. i believe america will soon get what it deserves for trying to police the world and trying to "liberate" the middle east.

Originally posted by crossfire
My point about holding passports as opposed to being "Citizens" (or "subjects" int he UK) - is that many Muslims in the UK hold British passports - but they are not British. They have a hatred for the country that gives them everything, they may be born, educated and given health protection in Britain but they go and fight with our enemies - their allegiance is only to other Muslims not to the country they live in.

Please? The pakistianis and indians that live in your country "have everything"?

Good laugh. I was ashamed during my visits to Britian as I never saw a class division by race so visible like in your country. That's just a new kind of slavery and not the open opportunities that you can find in other countries.

By the way how many muslims out of Britain joined the war in Iraq and other conflicts against your interests? Just a guess, come on. How much?

Let's say 500. 500 out of a few million. That's a lot, isn't it?
It is not.

And now try to stop your accusations and stereotyping. It's not right because you said it, it won't be right even if you tell it 10x. You are wrong. Thanks for accepting it.

And no I am not convinced by the Red Cross - it is a political organisation - it has strong views on various issues, and usually sides with terrorists.

What's your level of graduation?

[edit on 19-8-2004 by shoo]