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Torturing Children - God help this country

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posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 11:22 AM
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Koka, YES... the coalition are kind understanding heros sent to liberate an oppressed country.

There is no attempt to steal oil. There is no imperialism. But I am wasting my breath. You want to hate Bush and America and nothing will change your mind. Bush could cure cancer and you would say he took too long.

And no I am in Ohio. Nice and safe. I was in another conflict. Panama. You remember? The other imperialist invasion?




posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 11:57 AM
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Its so easy for us to hide behind our keyboards and screens and speak in outrage about whats going on. WE are not out there.. WE are not watching our buddies drop like flies... WE are not subject to the bloodshed and hell that is war. So NONE of us have a valid point.. unless you are a veteran have been knee deep in metaphorical # then you cannot comment. Now Im not saying that if this report is infact true that we should just look the other way, or that it is right.. I am saying that WAR = HELL and this # happens all the damn time. Its happend with every country at some point or another. And Id take it with a grain of salt since the report was written by a extremly biased individual. At the same time im sure people/children were abused, but do you think that they were doing this for fun? Perhaps, or do you think the actions were taken to save lives, both Iraqi and American. What if a 16 year old girl who is brainwashed by some insurgents knows the location of the next ambush point/suicide bombing. What are you gonna do? "Please tell us?" That always works....
Just because they are X number of years old does not mean they are angels. Kids can kill JUST as easily as adults. Just because they are sub (lets pull a number out of a hat) 18, we must pacify these "children"? Again, im not condoning the actions taken but all of you have got to realize that in war is life mutated . You would never see this going on during peace time. When war rolls around, hell rolls around, and anything goes in hell. Lastly remember there are 3 sides to the story, theirs, ours, and what really happened. Think for yourself, dont get force fed bullsh*t from some report, weather it be American or Anti-American.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:09 PM
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RealisticPatriot,

Iraqi conflict, liberation of the country from a cruel dictator.

US is not at war with Iraq or the Iraqi people or his children.

And again I am starting to sound like a broken record.

Since when we declared war on the people in Iraq, something troubles me and is the fact that some in this country are starting to forget that we brought war into Iraq and now that the people are being against the terrorist migration into Iraq and want the US out of their country US is wagging war against the Iraqi people and children because they can not tell terrorist from just unhappy people wanting the occupation to just get the heck out of their country.

Get it people we are not longer welcome, Sadam is out and they thanks US for it, now they are full of terrorist groups and they condemn US for it.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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Call it a conflict, call it a war, call it a campaign, call it whatever you want people are dieing. I understand what you are trying to say. The insurgents are killing more Iraqis' than Coalition members.. im surprised the Iraqi people dont go on all out massive offensive against these terrorists that have come across the boarders. I wish the would realize that the quicker the terrorists get eliminated, the quicker we will be outa there. If we cant tell the difference between terrorists and unhappy iraqis, surely the iraqi people can. We cant do this alone, if we had the help of the Iraqi people we would be outa there by years end



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by RealisticPatriot
if we had the help of the Iraqi people we would be outa there by years end


You won't win cooperation by raping and humiliating innocent civilians and their children.

(True or not) It's appalling that certain Americans are able to defend this type of behavior without having to type from a mental asylum or a prison!



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 01:12 PM
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The law says you are a child till you are 18 in the United States and if American soldiers are doing this to someone under 18 then they are abusing a child ( by US Laws) .. If u have sex with someone under 18 ( willing or in rape) u go to jail here. Because you are a soldier trying to get info that makes it ok? HELL NO!!! We want Iraqi ppl not to hate us and give us a chance this will never happen when we are abusing their babies..What if it were your child? Would it be ok? Even if he or she had info on something involving the war. You as a parent would be enraged at the thought and u would hate anyone involved!!! This is no different. Yes they can kill you as easily as an adult but this is a vicious circle that will never end unless someone breaks the cycle. These soldiers were doing what they were told probably but i'm sorry I would be released with a dishonorable discharge before i hurt a child!!!! My father-in-law was in Vietnam and he saw many children run at them with grenaids but that child was only doing what it was taught outta hate from their parents!!! Hate goes hand in hand with ignorance and to be ignorant is to be blind!!! 2 wrongs NEVER make a right... we need to remember that..!!!!!!



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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marge... please realize that when you invade a country they don't want you there.

Germany? didn't want us.
Japan? Nope

Please just stop this child like sense of "If people die then it is bad."

Yes people dying is bad but this is war. In war you kill people and break things. Rape is bad. torture is bad.

We stop it when we can.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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crmanager,

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!What way of thinking, I hope you don't work with children or the elderly if something happend Oh well is just part of life and lest blame it on somebody else.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 02:56 PM
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Ya this is "operation iraqi freedom" at work....what a filthy disgrace



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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But just remember:


Terrorists hate America for it's FREEDOMS! They are jealous of such a prosperous, God-fearing country! They are sick wackos who just want to kill you out of mindless envy.

Pfft.

Or maybe other valid reasons, hmm?



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Crmanager, I thought we were there to liberate an oppressed people from an oppressive government. Now they suddenly don't want us there? How could this be?

Its not like we're torturing their people or killing them or anything.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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Muslims around the world are desperaste to send their kids to die - they plaster them with semtex and tell them to go and detonate them in shopping malls. They send them out to throw stones at Israeli tanks when they well know it will get them shot.

Why?

Becuase to millions of Muslims - fighting Jihad is far more important that the lives of their children. They send their children to die and the parade their dead bodies in grotesque attempts to whip up further opposition to Isreal/US etc.

I have no doubt that most of these "kids" are proto-criminals and future suicide bombers - perhaps America is saving lives in the future by being tough in the present.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 04:14 PM
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If the retard idea that terrorists hate us because of our freedoms ect...Then why the hell wouldnt they be fighting their own govts if all they wanted was "our freedoms"????

It doesnt even make any sense...Dont try to tell me iraqis hated saddam and wanted american freedoms yet when we come to "liberate them"(ahahhaha) all they do is attack and kill any american they can...



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Yes the Iraqis don't want us there. No question.

No one wants an invading army under any circumstance.

Hell the British during ww2 said the u.s was "overpaid,oversexed and overhere." Our allies!

But they do want freedom. Freedom to worship and speak.

That comes at a price.

The fighters are a private army of saddam loyalists and a loon bag Imam with a Napoleonic commplex.

Come on guys. War! remember? It is bad! We all know it. This happened 2000 years ago and will happen 2000 years from now. People die!



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 04:28 PM
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CI war is the worst kind there is, you have to be cold and brutal to survive, get info and prevent ambushes, this goes on in every CI war.

its bad but its the reality, you cant judge what you dont understand, bad or good.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by crmanager
Yes the Iraqis don't want us there. No question.

But they do want freedom. Freedom to worship and speak.


Come on guys. War! remember? It is bad! We all know it. This happened 2000 years ago and will happen 2000 years from now. People die!


How do you know that all these fighters are just saddam loyalists???Thats an impossible statement to make and theres no way you can back that statement with anything but propoganda..

Ya war is bad and people die....

Why wasnt that frame of thought included when people complain about when saddam gased the kurds becasue they were hiding iranian troops on iraqi land????

When the U.S. kills thousands of cilvilains to get to "insurgents" ..people say that thats just war except it....yet when saddam killed civilians that were harboring enemy troops thats simply unaaceptable...??

warped indeed



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 06:02 PM
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How do you know that all these fighters are just saddam loyalists???Thats an impossible statement to make and theres no way you can back that statement with anything but propoganda..


The people who attack us are comprimised of 3 factions... Saddam loyalists, terrorists from other countries that came through the extremely porus borders, that makes up the majority of attacks... only IMHO about .005% of violence geared towards american troops come from native Iraqis. Why? Because most of theese terrorists are killing more Iraqi's than Americans. Think about it.. lets say you were a pissed off iraqi, would you really want to kill americans SO bad that youd see killing 80 of your own country men as acceptable colatteral damage for killing 5 americans.. i sure as hell wouldnt. Furthermore they are targeting the police stations, Iraqi police stations? Why would iraqis do that.. THEY WOULDNT they want to restore peace and tranquility to that region as badly as we do. Most of the attacks are geared at causing instability in Iraq so that US can look like idiots. The terrorists dont give a flying F*ck how many iraqi's they kill because they share no creed with them. The saddam loyalists think the iraqi commoner should die because they didnt back saddam when the US came. Im not saying that the Iraqi people love us, but im saying they arent the ones killing our soldiers.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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I'm not typically one to defend our government - it clearly is riddled with issues. I think the war is wrong and spured by greed and some global agenda us regular folks will never be privy to until they succeed. However, no matter how bad our government may seem or what secret political agenda may be behind this war let's remember who is actually over there fighting it and who is being accused of these atrocities. It is our young men and women. It is your average 19 year old boy from Indiana or a 23 year old girl from Colorado. These people aren't savages or even part of some evil secret society new world order - they're our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters. Would your brother commit these acts? Would your daughter? Come on now.

It seems there is a conspiracy afoot here - but it isn't our soldiers commiting it. It is whoever is behind this outrageous media that is trying to convince us that we are no better than that evil sadistic dictaor that we threw out of there. Don't fall for it. Don't let them get into your head and turn us against eachother and don't believe that our brothers and daughters have suddenly become evil savages just because they've left home.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by badkitty
It is your average 19 year old boy from Indiana or a 23 year old girl from Colorado. These people aren't savages or even part of some evil secret society new world order - they're our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters. Would your brother commit these acts? Would your daughter? Come on now.


Hi,

I agree with you on most points, except that the answer to your question above is YES.
Our brothers, sisters and children would commit these acts in the right (or should I say the wrong) circumstances.
Your loved ones are not special. They are human beings. Savagery lives in every one of us. Iraq is a place where, right now, conditions have been made such that that savagery is very likely to express itself.

What we need to understand is that in the context of rural America, Mr Joe Woods is not likely to sodomize anyone with a broom (although sometimes he will). Put him a foreign country where he does not understand the language, and where any moment may yield an explosion that might leave him and his countrymen dead or crippled, and where the enemy is anonymous, blending perfectly into the crowds - and you have a situation where tensions will build and build over months and find any outlet they can.

Remember, ours is a nation that used to lynch people with great delight, not even a hundred years ago. Our's is a nation that favors the death penalty even though we know some innocent people will be killed, and that killing a criminal means irreversibly damaging the lives of his family and loved ones. We do not have room to take moral grand stands, and swoon in disbelief at the actions of our soldiers. They are human beings in an exceptionally bad situation. Recognizing that they are doing what they are doing is not turning against them. It is part of the process of realizing what this shameful war is doing to our children.


Stay well,

U.



posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by crossfire
Muslims around the world are desperaste to send their kids to die - they plaster them with semtex and tell them to go and detonate them in shopping malls. They send them out to throw stones at Israeli tanks when they well know it will get them shot.

Why?

Becuase to millions of Muslims - fighting Jihad is far more important that the lives of their children. They send their children to die and the parade their dead bodies in grotesque attempts to whip up further opposition to Isreal/US etc.

I have no doubt that most of these "kids" are proto-criminals and future suicide bombers - perhaps America is saving lives in the future by being tough in the present.


I'm sorry, but that is just plain ignorant. Where are the millions of suicide bombers whose parents see them as disposable bomb carriers? I think you got carried away.
If there were millions of them, as you contend, our country would probably be on its knees at present. There is no nation that can survive an army of millions of suicide bombers.

These people are humans, not demons. As different as their culture is to ours, you could begin to understand it if you had it in you to try. This would necessitate beginning to understand our shortcomings in this situation also, which you may not be prepared to face.

U.




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