Law Enforcement versus Peace Officer- Causes and Solutions

Originally posted by SFA437

Yes my grand idea is to vote to make changes in your community. Great thing about this country- everyone can vote. My grand idea is for everyone to try and raise their children to value others, their rights and to treat others in a way that they would like to be treated. Why you feel a need to oppose voting and raising children who respect others is a tad mindboggling.

If everyone was taught at birth to value others, their rights and behave themselves as they would like to be treated, a vote on anything short of "whats for dinner?" would be almost completely moot because as soon as one group of people bands together to stop the actions of another group, they have trampled on the respect and rights of that group. Even if it is a majority.

-Lightrule

Originally posted by Lightrule

Originally posted by SFA437

Yes my grand idea is to vote to make changes in your community. Great thing about this country- everyone can vote. My grand idea is for everyone to try and raise their children to value others, their rights and to treat others in a way that they would like to be treated. Why you feel a need to oppose voting and raising children who respect others is a tad mindboggling.

If everyone was taught at birth to value others, their rights and behave themselves as they would like to be treated, a vote on anything short of "whats for dinner?" would be almost completely moot because as soon as one group of people bands together to stop the actions of another group, they have trampled on the respect and rights of that group. Even if it is a majority.

-Lightrule

True but we choose to live in society where certain standards of behavior are expected from everyone. When there is deviation from that standard society, as a whole, has said that deviation needs to be addressed and punished. The degree of deviation is something for the community to decide and to resist with violence as a last resort. I do not think we have approached that tipping point as a society. We're damn close but not there yet.

I choose not to live in an anarchic country. I've worked in them and don't like it one bit. As such I willingly submit to lawful authority if I decide to break the laws that I choose to live under. If I wish to not submit to that authority I expect to be arrested once I break the laws enacted by those elected by my fellow citizens.

The point of my thread though was to show that there are steps everyone can take to make a change in their communities with a little activism, political awareness and even by writing a letter or two to their mayors, councilmen and police Chiefs. The hardest part of taking a brick wall down is pulling that first brick loose- I was hoping to provide some tools, based on my experience and observations, to help pull that first brick out.

Some of the confusion lies right in the heading of the post. The heading lists "peace officer" as the same thing as "police officer." The average person will say "semantics" they mean the same thing. They do not.

A Police Officer is a Policy Enforcement Officer, who's job is enforce the policy of the corporation that employs them. Each city, county, state and fed is a corporation with its own by laws which are all designed to raise revenue for the corporation. Well you might say, how does throwing people in jail make money for the corporation. The corporation pays its own self to incarcerate, so the money stays within the corporation, rather than be transferred to another corporation. Like paying your brother to clean your house with the money your dad gives you to get it cleaned.

A Peace Officer, based on the oath, would be there simply to keep the peace and mitigate disputes should folks ask. His job would have NOTHING to due with raising taxes through fines, tickets and arresting. There would be no money involved in any transaction.

The two things are NOT the same thing at all. Policy is not the same root word as Peace, to think so is to be beyond ignorant of language and facts. The solution to the problem is more complex than just saying this will work or that do it. We need to decide who does what. In a place with Policy Enforcement as the norm, then what we have is the best there is - taxes are levied on everyone who encounters an "officer" because the policy indicates this must happen and because of this process antagonism between enforcers and others is preferred because it leads to more taxes. If we want folks who will maintain the Peace, then nearly all the policy officers must go and be replaced by those who follow an oath to keep the peace, not uphold the laws.

Ask yourself this question: there are MILLIONS of laws, how can a uniformed Policy Enforcer know them all to enforce them?

Ask yourself this question: how hard is it to learn what the peace is, and how to get folks closer to it?

It might be interesting for the original poster to make a wholly separate reply with the oath he took in the body. Folks with the requisite language skills could then examine: Jean Paul Thorueax, Daddio, Protoplasmic Traveler would be stellar at checking it out for what is really means.

reply to post by SFA437


So lets just rip that first brick out! Here are some really simple and effective ideas to keep each other safe and respectful of our rights.

Step 1. - You and others like you let go of the idea that I acquiescence to anything "our society" has agreed on. Its not my society. I only interact with your society because I have no choice not too, you are everywhere.

Step 2. - You and others like you understand that I was born on this planet just like you, while I made the decision to be born, I had no control over which planet I would be born on. As such we all entered the world as EXACT EQUALS.

Step 3. - You and others like you realize that because we are equal in every possible way imaginable you have no right to organize into a group to force me into following your group rules. Unless I agree to it.

Step 4 - You and others like you realize that because I am not a member of your society I have no reason to follow your rules.

Step 5. - You and others like you then understand that because I am not a member of your society, that is not following your rules you cannot force the consequences of not following the rules on me without destroying my rights to liberty and freedom.

Step 6. - Profit??

-Lightrule

reply to post by crankyoldman


If Daddio and JPZ manage to make it into this thread the OP will cry. Haha. Proto on the other hand has been banned. Although I'm sure he already has an alternate account on the go. I don't know.

You make some good points with your post. Police officers are wholly different from Peace Officers. I do however think the OP knows the difference between the two, at least he seems like he does.

-Lightrule

reply to post by Lightrule


There are places on the planet where you can go where there is no authority or civilization to speak of. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there- working there was enough

I know where you're coming from though and I have no issues with what you're saying. I've slowly gravitated over the course of my life to Libertarianism. Not quite a full on anarchist who sees no need for society and community but far enough outside the "mainstream" to be considered a little nutty by my friends and neighbors

Unarmed police don't work as a valid concept anywhere. Doesent work in the UK, nor Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, nor anywhere else. I predict all of these forces will be armed entirely by the end of the decade. I believe the New Zealand Police Force is already on the path towards an entirely armed police force.

Canada's Royal Newfoundland Constabulary was unarmed until 1998. Canadian Customs was unarmed until 2006. Both realized unarmed officers were pointless.

reply to post by Lightrule


Why was Proto banned? I saw no thread or story on that, I'm deeply saddened.

The key is to have folks take a look at the terms, and to see how they are mislead. It is so funny to me that folks have no idea where "policy" comes from, it surely isn't derived from peace, that of peace, love and understanding.

reply to post by Kitilani


Drunker than hell ATM so this might come out a tad garbled but...

Thank the gods you are just you and not Dr. King or my sister would be locked up for miscegenation offenses.

When injustice is done to a segment of society it is up to society to effect the change necessary to rectify those injustices.

reply to post by SFA437


See that word authority? That can only exist under consent.

authority;
n. permission, a right coupled with the power to do an act or order others to act. Often one person gives another authority to act, as an employer to an employee, a principal to an agent, a corporation to its officers, or governmental empowerment to perform certain functions. There are different types of authority, including "apparent authority" when a principal gives an agent various signs of authority to make others believe he or she has authority; "express authority" or "limited authority," which spells out exactly what authority is granted (usually a written set of instructions) "implied authority," which flows from the position one holds and "general authority," which is the broad power to act for another.

You require my consent to evoke your authority. I nor anyone was born into this automatic agreement to authority. Government cannot claim my presence on a landmass is what grants them authority. Their authority comes from a group of people that agree to be governed, not their presence on a landmass. Since we are all born equal the only way I would come under the authority of government or "society" would be if I agree to be. Just because I don't want to submit to your government's authority or "Society" as a whole doesn't give me free reign to loot and pillage, rape and kill as my heart desires. Far from actually. For if I value my life I will leave the rights of others intact so that they don't string me up for being a murdering thieving lunatic.

But this is one of the oldest fights on this planet. Man is STILL trying to figure out where his authority begins... and ends.

-Lightrule

ETA: Try not to reply to this until you are sober. hehe