police "mistook" handicapped teen-ager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered,

Originally posted by Ray1850 So to all of you people who think this kind of thing is new WAKE UP

You are right, it is not new. (The movie Changeling was based on a real case where a woman disagreed with the police and wound up getting thrown into a brutal mental institution because she was showing Contempt of cop by being right)
But now with the small cameras and internetwe unarmed citizen have the means to expose this type of systemetic abuse and terrorisem of the citizens they proport to 'protect and serve'
The police can't stand that their little puppy dogs that they used to kick and torture when they felt like it growing up and realising they are big enough to bite their tormenters back.

Gun factor. You'd be a heck of a lot more polite and courteous a police officer if you didn't have to think all the time about someone having a gun. As much as the incident depresses one, the police officer's handling the situation maybe has to be seen in that context.

And nowadays just think about the new law in Ohio (June 30, 2011) permitting concealed weapons to be carried into bars. Think about it - I surely would not like to be inside the head of an Ohio officer contemplating this new world. "Guns and alcohol"?? No one in their right mind approves of alcohol and driving, so why "guns and alcohol"???

i just created a new gang and its called "zapp the po po" if anyone zapp a po po send me pm and i'll arrest your ass

These discussions are in my opinion pointless.

For all the time and energy spent by guys like SFA437, explaining, and so on, there are 15 cops like the one that beat this handicapped kid.

Probably 20 to 1 even. I completely understand the position of SFA437, and appreciate his attempts, but I have to treat his posts and point of view like I would a children's story.

It is the very best ideas applied in the best manner for the best reasons, and all in a story that does not accurately reflect the reality on the ground.

Since WE are not cops, we can't take all these good ideas, and good feelings and good intentions he is talking about, and put them in a spray can, and hose down the bad cops with all these rainbow bright ideas.

Talk to our mayors huh??? Yeah. Uhm, I've tried that. My mayor was my brother in law, and I STILL couldn't talk to him. Again, the best idea, not represented by the reality on the ground. If your town maybe has a population of 3000 then you can wander around and find the mayor.
The fastest way to see the mayor is to have a fat sack of cash to donate to his reelection, or to represent a large group of non minorities, in your town, or to be someone who has recently or plans to spend millions of dollars building a new something. If you can't hit one of those 3 high notes, you aren't seeing the mayor in a "real" city anytime soon.

My opinion is that there will have to be some form of large scale conflict between the people, and the Law Enforcement Paramilitary. In America we only change things when a significant enough tragedy makes the problem obvious, and glaring, and internationally embarrassing.
Obviously the standard run of continuous police abuse isn't enough. It's not big enough, it's a series of one offs instead of one gigantic tragedy. Unless the LAPD can catch a group of their own cops playing Baton Ball with a little mexican baby until it dies from it, none of the instances are so horrible by themselves to make addressing the reality a priority.

reply to post by Butterbone

For all the time and energy spent by guys like SFA437, explaining, and so on, there are 15 cops like the one that beat this handicapped kid.

Probably 20 to 1 even. I completely understand the position of SFA437, and appreciate his attempts, but I have to treat his posts and point of view like I would a children's story.

Really?

There are over 600,000 law enforcement officers in the country. They each encounter a certain number of civilians every single day. We are talking about millions of interactions between police and civilians each and every day. If the bad ones truly outnumbered the good ones, then we would see nothing but violence in the streets at all times. People would cower and hide from police. 1000's or even 100s of 10000s of violent attacks by police each and every day. Are you seeing that?

You are saying it is 20 to 1 bad to good? Even if it was 20 to 1 good to bad, these stories would be everywhere at all times. Dozens of occurences each and every day in your own neighborhood. The ratio is much more likely 5000 to 1 good to bad, or something along those lines. It probably mirrors the ratio in your own office, or own family.

There are a few bad cops. There are a few bad situations. There are a few tragic outcomes, but when you look at the millions of good situations, good outcomes, and good cops, then it makes claims like yours seem ridiculous and incindiery.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/22b7aaa64328.jpg[/atsimg]

Times and procedures change... but it's all the same...we are manipulated and controlled..


It's now almost impossible for an Empire to control the population under a dictatorial government so TPTB use human nature against the population. If you let too much power on hands of military soldiers or police officers federal employees or any person in position of power, they will one day or an other abuse of their power over the population, add a little presure on them and more will do the same so at the end it's the same result but TPTB keeps Government's hands almost clean brcause only low level federal employees got the blames and accusations....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f0e2690ac943.jpg[/atsimg]

I may be the only one who finds humor in this...

Really? They needed 20 back-up officers to handle a kid with a speech impediment??? I mean, seriously meow. There is so much sh*t going on right now in this world, and your biggest concern is a handicapped kid... riding home on his bike???

Everyone does realize that together, as one... If we were to throw aside our differences and what little things we disagree and bicker on, but come together and fight for the one main cause.... We can take control? Gain true freedom?
We pay the taxes that pays for these savages salary, and I'm not just talking about the corrupt police.
Without us, the people, there would be no govnt. There would be nothing to run and control. There would be maybe what is left of the elite, but what would they even have??

We PAY them to do this. WE are in charge, but ONLY if we can stand together as one and stop fighting with each other over the most ridiculous, pointless matters that should never be thought twice about. That I see is the first step towards a real democracy *I live in Canada by the way, our system is corrupt too, but nothing like the States...*
We have been born into a mindset that things are the way they are, because that's how life is.. I never understood it, and now know that's not true.

reply to post by getreadyalready

You are saying it is 20 to 1 bad to good? Even if it was 20 to 1 good to bad, these stories would be everywhere at all times. Dozens of occurences each and every day in your own neighborhood. The ratio is much more likely 5000 to 1 good to bad, or something along those lines. It probably mirrors the ratio in your own office, or own family.

I will say, from my own experience, 11 or 12 to one BAD to GOOD.

In my lifetime, that is from a pool of around 90+ police officers. That is everything from municipal cops up to federal level.

If everyone the Police had attacked unjustly and brutally in the past banded togeather and launched a lawsuit on the Government for allowing this brutal treatment from the very people that WE are paying for their services. They are working for us, but the very people responsible for employing them on our behalfs, should be acountable for their actions. If YOU speak to them in a tone they don't like, you are arrested, If ( or should I say when ) they brutally attack you and put your very life in danger, a blind eye is turned.

If I were in charge of the Police, I would operate a one strike and you are out policy and anyone NOT reporting a fellow officer for wrongdoings would also be out, and forget about your Police pension as well, state benefit for you, after you are released from jail. I can just see in my minds eye where this is all going, it will soon get so bad that NO-ONE will be prepared to work for the Police for the very risks which they have brought about themselves.

I would also enforce a 3 man patrol unit, where one officer was solely responsibe for filming every police intervention from the very first second to the last, also head cams with sound capabilities, which cannot be switched off, if they have to record their own actions, on duty, they will be too scared to step out of line !

Did the officer get charged with anything? If I read correctly, werent they calling him defendant.. Which would imply yes he has been charged.. And if so, shouldnt we applaud them for charging the officer... Instead of just bashing the mindless goon..

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Butterbone

 

For all the time and energy spent by guys like SFA437, explaining, and so on, there are 15 cops like the one that beat this handicapped kid.

Probably 20 to 1 even. I completely understand the position of SFA437, and appreciate his attempts, but I have to treat his posts and point of view like I would a children's story.

Really?

There are over 600,000 law enforcement officers in the country. They each encounter a certain number of civilians every single day. We are talking about millions of interactions between police and civilians each and every day. If the bad ones truly outnumbered the good ones, then we would see nothing but violence in the streets at all times. People would cower and hide from police. 1000's or even 100s of 10000s of violent attacks by police each and every day. Are you seeing that?

You are saying it is 20 to 1 bad to good? Even if it was 20 to 1 good to bad, these stories would be everywhere at all times. Dozens of occurences each and every day in your own neighborhood. The ratio is much more likely 5000 to 1 good to bad, or something along those lines. It probably mirrors the ratio in your own office, or own family.

There are a few bad cops. There are a few bad situations. There are a few tragic outcomes, but when you look at the millions of good situations, good outcomes, and good cops, then it makes claims like yours seem ridiculous and incindiery.

I disagree with your assertions.

You can "enjoy" the protection of the police all you want.

reply to post by butcherguy


reply to post by Butterbone


In my experience, I have only ever encountered 2 truly bad cops. One stalked and harrassed my wife and I for several months before we finally got him fired. Another one was stalking a teen girl I visited once, he pulled me over leaving her house and threatened me, and he got fired also.

Besides those two bad cops, I have people I consider close friends in FBI, FDLE, local cops, sheriffs, FHP, and even a chief or two. In addition to those friends, I have had probably 50+ (counting traffic tickets) run-ins with police over the last 20 years, and even 6 or 7 arrests, and I have never once been mistreated. On two occasions, even when I resisted their aggression, and was combative, I was still treated with caution and respect, and I wasn't arrested on either occasion. Of course, I was always calm, cool, and assertive, and I never made it personal or insulting, I only stood my ground and declared what I would or wouldn't do willingly, and they were smart enough to take the easy road instead of the hard road.

I would say my personal experience ratio of good to bad is probably 100 to 2, and both of the 2 were disciplined and fired.

Originally posted by Qwenn
If everyone the Police had attacked unjustly and brutally in the past banded togeather and launched a lawsuit on the Government for allowing this brutal treatment from the very people that WE are paying for their services. They are working for us, but the very people responsible for employing them on our behalfs, should be acountable for their actions. If YOU speak to them in a tone they don't like, you are arrested, If ( or should I say when ) they brutally attack you and put your very life in danger, a blind eye is turned.

If I were in charge of the Police, I would operate a one strike and you are out policy and anyone NOT reporting a fellow officer for wrongdoings would also be out, and forget about your Police pension as well, state benefit for you, after you are released from jail. I can just see in my minds eye where this is all going, it will soon get so bad that NO-ONE will be prepared to work for the Police for the very risks which they have brought about themselves.

I would also enforce a 3 man patrol unit, where one officer was solely responsibe for filming every police intervention from the very first second to the last, also head cams with sound capabilities, which cannot be switched off, if they have to record their own actions, on duty, they will be too scared to step out of line !

Then you are basically disbanding all police departments? Because, no government I know of, not even Saudi Arabia, could afford that actual police structure.

reply to post by havanaja

And nowadays just think about the new law in Ohio (June 30, 2011) permitting concealed weapons to be carried into bars. Think about it - I surely would not like to be inside the head of an Ohio officer contemplating this new world. "Guns and alcohol"?? No one in their right mind approves of alcohol and driving, so why "guns and alcohol"???

Sounds like an alcohol problem, seeing as how the states tax it and in some cases sell it. They license establishments to sell it by the individual drink, when the establishment is not within reasonable walking distance of anyone's house and the parking lot will hold a hundred cars.

Why would a state sell a substance that is proven to cause so many deaths a year, then send goon squads out to enforce a whole slew of laws that they have passed to restrict its use.

They should equip the young boy with a Taser, a can of pepper spray, a partner equally well equipped, and 20 vicious helpers to restrain the officer and manhandle him into a dark van for a magical mystery tour. If I were that cop, I would never feel safe to walk the street again, in case someone had taken it into their heads to teach him a lesson. Perhaps when he is off duty, the rest of his neighbours and shop owners should all decide to ignore him, and ban him from ever shopping in their store again, I know I would !

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MustangDesigns

 

I haven't read the whole article, but after reading the title it occured to me. I have children, and they will be teens one day. If they are ever attacked, intimidated, abused, or otherwise harmed by someone, in or out of uniform, and if there is ever a need for retribution, I won't be using tasers.

I agree, disrespecting a cop is our first ammendment right. Legally you should be able to walk up to a cop and flip him off. I expressly do NOT recommend this though.

I remember back in the day, when I was in school I was caught "jay walking" (so ridiculous) on my way home. One of my friends happened to be walking by as I was sitting there listening to the cop lecture me about safety. As he walked by the cop he casually said "whats the matter? The man got you down for going to school now too? This looks like very important police work!! Thanks for keeping the community safe from bad people!"

And he continued walking away. I saw the cops face literally turn beat red and he walked up behind the kid and grabbed his arm, bending it up behind him to the point I thought he would dislocate it. The cop said, "You think you're a little tough guy you A*#-hole?!" Surprisingly, my friend stayed calm and said loudly so other passers by could hear. "I DONT THINK I'M TOUGH SIR, I KNOW THAT I AM AN AMERICAN, PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMMENDMENT, I HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS MYSELF. YOU SIR, ARE A COWARD, HIDING BEHIND A BADGE, WITH NO RESPECT FOR THE VALUES YOU ARE BEING PAID TO UPHOLD. IF YOU DO NOT TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF ME, I WILL CALL THE POLICE AND REPORT AN ASSAULT."

The cop was so stunned, he let the kid go and backed away. He said, "What is your dad some scum bag criminal defense lawyer?"

Point being, we all know that our rights are being trampled on. The president wipes his butt with the documents that made this country great. However, sometimes I feel these atrocious acts of bullying by law enforcement can be averted, simply by not giving in to their instigations. I'm sure that cop wanted that kid to resist and fight back. That would have given him just cause to tase him, beat him, and arrest him for getting in the way of his "police work" and resisting arrest.

Originally posted by Qwenn
They should equip the young boy with a Taser, a can of pepper spray, a partner equally well equipped, and 20 vicious helpers to restrain the officer and manhandle him into a dark van for a magical mystery tour. If I were that cop, I would never feel safe to walk the street again, in case someone had taken it into their heads to teach him a lesson. Perhaps when he is off duty, the rest of his neighbours and shop owners should all decide to ignore him, and ban him from ever shopping in their store again, I know I would !

That cop is going to feel just as safe as the day he got his badge. And even if he does get fired from the force where he is, he'll just get another position in one of the surrounding communities at a slightly lower pay scale, as punishment. Then 2 years from now, he'll be right back on the force like nothing happened.

On another note. I think they should remove all tasers from duty. I had a friend of a friend killed on duty while attempting to use his taser earlier this year. I think tasers muddy the waters and make situations difficult to evaluate. Either a situation calls for force, or it does not call for force, there is no in between.

The tasers are just as dangerous for the cops as they are for the civilians. The one I am talking about was in central Florida, and it was a routine traffic stop that escalated to violence, and after tasering the driver, the driver pulled a gun and killed the cop. There was a report about 2 years ago where I guy killed 2 cops and injured several more after he had been tazed twice, and was still able to pull his weapon and shoot two cops dead and then escape in his truck only to be killed by police in a shootout later on.

So, here is my recap of my opinions in this thread so far, so that it doesn't look like I am waffling on the issue:

1. If anyone, cop or not, harms my child in a way that is uncalled for, they will have to deal with me.
2. I won't use a taser, I will be much more direct and decisive. I don't believe in them, and I think they are being misused on civilians and putting cops lives in more danger than before.
3. I do not think the majority of cops are bad. I don't even think a significant number of cops are bad. I think the number of bad cops is probably equivalent to the number of bad accountants, bad brother-in-laws, bad fraternity brothers, and bad co-workers. There are bad apples in every group.

Originally posted by Butterbone

Originally posted by Qwenn
They should equip the young boy with a Taser, a can of pepper spray, a partner equally well equipped, and 20 vicious helpers to restrain the officer and manhandle him into a dark van for a magical mystery tour. If I were that cop, I would never feel safe to walk the street again, in case someone had taken it into their heads to teach him a lesson. Perhaps when he is off duty, the rest of his neighbours and shop owners should all decide to ignore him, and ban him from ever shopping in their store again, I know I would !

That cop is going to feel just as safe as the day he got his badge. And even if he does get fired from the force where he is, he'll just get another position in one of the surrounding communities at a slightly lower pay scale, as punishment. Then 2 years from now, he'll be right back on the force like nothing happened.

If that is true, Well that is just wrong, If I lived in his community, I would make sure he never did something like this again, I would campain to have him removed from the community, a good person would never be able to do anything like this in the first place, so that means he is inherently a bad person, so he should not even be tolerated.


For two officers to punch and beat a mentally retarded boy, after tasering him, then complain that he assaulted them, by trying to defend himself, if he had his back to them, then he posed no threat to them, yet they still both fired the Taser into his back, INHUMAN COWARDS. They see any non-compliance as disrespect, and you know what happens to anyone who disrespects a gang member in the Hood, and after all they are just another gang of thugs, except they are legalised. They want to break everyones spirits, so that we stay indoors and do nothing.

reply to post by Qwenn


Qwen that kind of attitude is what Nazis are made of.

The reality for me is that all cops are at their very core, corrupt. They take advantage of their position like anyone would given the abilities and special treatment.
People are always going to be like that. You can't make good cops, because you can't create a cop that doesn't have the potential for corruption.

So instead of constantly trying to put a band aide on a broken bone, you just have to try to avoid the situation which gets you the broken bone.

Now I get to start off with a HUGE advantage. I'm white, balding, drive a luxury SUV, and where white collar shirts to work. My chances of even gettin pulled over for anything other than drunk driving, or expired tags, are pretty much non existent. Old fat white guys in nice cars, just don't get pulled over that much.

But my kids, well my sons skateboard, and play instruments, and have the baggy clothes and shaggy hair. So they are only 12 and 13 and already get hassled. I have to teach them as fast as I can how to avoid the situations, because that is really their only defence.

Cops don't catch crooks and they don't stop crimes. Cops DECIDE when you are doing something they don't like.