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The deadbeat dad case

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posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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The justices ruled in a 5 to 4 decision (PDF) to uphold the appeal of Michael Turner, a father who had been jailed for a year because he did not — he said could not — pay the nearly $6,000 in child support payments he owed. The court decided that Turner’s incarceration violated the due process clause because he had not been told that his ability to pay was crucial to the case and the court never determined whether Turner could, in fact, make his child support obligations.


Well the anti-child support advocates ought to appreciate this.

My question for the courts is this: if the custodial parent loses their job, they are expected to find a way to care for the child. How is that fair?


Such court-ordered employment programs are in place in many states, including Maryland and Virginia, as well as the District. “These programs cost a little money,” Sorensen said, “but research shows that they can be a lot cheaper than incarcerating somebody.”


My state is one of those who have the mandated employment programs. I do think these are a good idea. Many people just don't have the skills to apply or keep jobs.

My state also has a program for those that when they are finally off welfare and get a job, on how to keep it by building their responsbilities and their behavior at work.

While I don't think it is fair to the custodial parent who has to make ends meet for the child no matter what, by having these programs, I like how the expert points out that it flushes out those who may be working under the table.




posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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The states don't give a damn about father's rights. I live in New York state. I have joint legal custody of my son, but my ex-wife has custodial rights. We have the standard "Every other weekend" arrangement on paper, but I get to see him whenever I want to, or whenever she is working. So most, if not every week I see him 5 days a week. Yet I still have to pay my ex-wife child support.

When I lost my job back in November, I applied for unemployment. The state immediately started taking out child support. You know how much? 50%. 50% of my unemployment was going to her. The state can not, and will not adjust the child support obligations unless you file a petition for modification. And unfortunately most people don't know this. And you can very easily fall into arrears. To top that off, I had a mysterious "Medical Support Order" placed on my son. So never mind the fact that when I was working, and paying over $600 a month for Empire Blue Cross, the state was taking an additional $70+ a week for "Medical Holding". Yet when I try and figure out what this is, the Department of Social Services can't seem to give me a straight answer. One says its for Medicaid, one says its for temporary medical emergencies, etc etc etc.

The solution of throwing someone in jail because they fall behind on payments is ridiculous. Between the month of October and November of 2010 I fell behind by $1300 (because my job didn't get the withholding order from the state right away). The state pounced on me as if I had just killed someone. They don't seem to ever look at the bigger picture. Now I am unemployed (still unfortunately) and I am still paying 50% to my ex-wife. I have to physically go down to the court and file petitions to get it changed.

You know what is very telling about that? I have to go to the Board of Parole in order to file this petition. Strange eh?

The states should have tried to work something out with this guy for him to pay back arrears. But the states don't care. This "nanny state" nonsense will never end. And the Child Support Enforcement Bureau and Social Services are nothing but a bunch of thieving liars. They steal money from you and when you call them out on it, they will give you every excuse under the sun. I calculated that they took over $5000 from me in the last year and a half, yet no one can tell me where it went, or why it was taken. Or if I will ever get it back.

So I can totally sympathize with this guy in respect to PAYING child support. I don't know what kind of a dad he is. I just think the system is corrupt, and skewed against fathers. I know for a fact that the money I give my ex-wife every week sure doesn't go to "supporting" my son. If this guy lived in a state that had him work like you stated, wouldn't that have been a better solution for everyone? Instead they throw him in jail for a year, at a cost of probably around $100,000 to the state. That makes sense....






edit on 30-6-2011 by DerekJR321 because: typo



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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Personally, I'm disgusted by the subject, considering my ex-wife is a deadbeat. It's not just "dads" that don't pay. I raised my son by myself since he was 2, and never got a dime from his "mother" (who I refer to as an egg donor). Nothing. And the courts never did a damn thing either. Your subject line is bunk, and it infuriates me, but that's that.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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I don't understand the whole system, which is why I opted out. My ex wasn't perfect by any stretch, but I was just as frustrated as he was.

If a man or women paying child support loses their job, I would think it would make sense to lower the support if they were willing to care for the child during the day while the other works. I realize this won't work for all situations, but it sure would help some people out.
'Course this is common sense, and the "Friend of the Court" does not know what that is.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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Personally I think it's deadbeat parents; NOT just Dads. As for child support? What is this child support you speak of? Never got it. At first it was because he wasn't making much and I couldn't see the point of going after him for something he didn't have, then when he was making more then me he still didn't pay but at least he paid for her to go see him (finally) and she had a great time. I didn't see the point of going to court and playing tug of war with my daughter.

Putting people in jail over child support doesn't help the child; they still aren't getting supported; forcing the non-custodial parent to pay so much they can't afford to live isn't right either. To my mind the solution lies in people taking personal responsibility for their actions, bring a child into this world be prepared to support the child. I'm not sure we can legislate morality. It angers me when people do not support their child be they male or female.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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put a different name on the title and replay the same thread with your own opening paragraphs......hmmm original thinking...awesome...not

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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My ex owes my daughter and myself over $140,000. Most of the time he has worked under the table and has never once made a payment voluntarily. I have supported her all on my own and made miracles happen. Recently, he asked for a modification of support due to being unemployed. He got his support lowered from six hundred dollars a month to eighteen dollars a month. And guess what? 7 months later and he hasn't once paid the eighteen dollars. The state has not thrown him in jail or mandated him to have a job. My guess is that there are more dads out there like my ex than not. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Every week I get phone calls from him telling me to forgive his child support and let him be back at zero. I know I will never see the money. At the same time, I also know that every day I make sure my daughter has all her necessities plus more. I can't get my state to properly enforce the order. So for some child support seems unfair but he could have requested the modification at anytime instead of no showing at court. By the way, filing a modification is easy the child support office often helps.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
My question for the courts is this: if the custodial parent loses their job, they are expected to find a way to care for the child. How is that fair?


If a custodial parent loses their job they get welfare, subsidized day care, public housing etc. etc. and/or the non-custodial parent is just forced to pay more. If the non-custodial loses their job they get most of their unemployment check garnered and eventually they get thrown in jail.

How is that fair?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by nikkij
By the way, filing a modification is easy the child support office often helps.


It's easy if you're asking for an increase, not so easy if asking for a decrease.

The fact that your ex owes 140k shows how absurd the system is, I don't care how old your daughter is, there is no way in he ll it has cost 280k to provide for her necessities.

My step-daughter's biological Father has never paid either, he owes something like 70k... I honestly don't blame him for working under the table, he never wanted a child to start with.
edit on 30-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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nixie, I don't see a link in your post. I'd like to read about the case. (I'm having video problems with my computer, so if it's there, I apologize.)

Yes, there are deadbeat PARENTS, but I believe this thread is about a specific case about a dad, so the title seems fine to me.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by nikkij
By the way, filing a modification is easy the child support office often helps.


It's easy if you're asking for an increase, not so easy if asking for a decrease.

The fact that your ex owes 140k shows how absurd the system is, I don't care how old your daughter is, there is no way in he ll it has cost 280k to provide for her necessities.

My step-daughter's biological Father has never paid either, he owes something like 70k... I honestly don't blame him for working under the table, he never wanted a child to start with.
edit on 30-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-6-2011 by nikkij because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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So if I cant pay $6,000 how exactly does locking me up at a taxpayer expense of $30-$40K annually help that be rectified?

This time in a cell is going to help me find a job?

Is being in jail a marketable skill?

If we're after "justice" here explain to me how taking away my ability to find work and making it markedly more difficult to find employment with a record make me more able to pay the child support.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:28 AM
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Im obviously new here so please excuse my failed attempt at quoting that post! Of my ex's $140,000 in back child support nearly half of that is interest because he chose not to pay his principal! In CA it is easy for a modification he got one in under 60 days lowering his payment almost 100%. You just go online and fill the form out. And my ex DID want this child. He begged me for her. And ten years later not only does he still not have a job or pay his $18.00/mo child support payment he never asks to see her either. He doesn't even call about anything other than me forgiving his child support. So since I wasn't the one who necessarily wanted a child should I just get to walk away with an "OH WELL?" I don't think so.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by nikkij
 


He does not deserve to be a parent and he has proven already that he isnt a father.

hope things improve..
edit on 30-6-2011 by CaDreamer because: typo



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by nikkij
Im obviously new here so please excuse my failed attempt at quoting that post! Of my ex's $140,000 in back child support nearly half of that is interest because he chose not to pay his principal!


And once again... that just shows how absurd the system is.


Originally posted by nikkij
So since I wasn't the one who necessarily wanted a child should I just get to walk away with an "OH WELL?" I don't think so.


You chose to have a baby, it was your unilateral choice. If you didn't want the child and her Father wanted one so much why didn't you let him have full custody? If you're working and he isn't, and he wanted her and you didn't... why the he ll is she with you?
edit on 30-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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You know what?

I see both sides here and think that everyone is responsible for their actions.
But when you let money into the equation, things get ugly.

When I see women take child support checks to buy themselves clothing, or fill their cupboards with junkfood, or get that new LCD TV...I get hostile.

All the while, the men are busting hump to give 50% of their earnings to the woman.
Not the child.


It's funny how women can get child support, sometimes in the thousands, and never use it for the child.
They can use the money to live in a nice apartment or pay for a new car...
But no one cries foul.

First off, both parents are responsible for the "financial" upbringing of their child.
Neither one should be forced to support the other.
If you didn't want a child, you should've kept your pants on. Both sexes.
Pretty simple.
But I am stern when it comes to this idea.
People don't want to be held accountable for their actions.
In my humble opinion, of course.

The only reason the court system gets involved is because of money and lawyers.
If money wasn't the core issue, there would be no child support.

Sometimes I wish that all paid child support went into a pool that the child gets at 18.
Except 25% for cost of living so they could have a nice savings account upon graduation.
The mother doesn't "deserve" money, simply because she is 50% of the issue.

Then again, people take advantage of every opportunity to squander money...so...






posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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He obviously never wanted a child to begin with! He just said he did! I love my daughter and that is why I have accepted responsibility for her. I have never withheld her from him. Like I said, he has never wanted to see her or be in her life. Your right is was my choice to not abort or adopt her out, but other than that he also had a choice in the matter. She was wanted by him until a month before delivery. Nothing monumental happened other than the fact that she was about to be real. I have offered him a compromise program but its all or nothing for him. He doesn't even have a permanent address.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by CaDreamer
reply to post by nikkij
 


He does not deserve to be a parent and he has proven already that he isnt a father.

hope things improve..
edit on 30-6-2011 by CaDreamer because: typo



Thank you! Things are great I have a smart beautiful little girl. In the end all the hard work I have done to make sure she has what she needs will pay off because I have gotten to experience her on a day to day basis. Nothing better than watching your child grow up



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by nikkij
Thank you! Things are great I have a smart beautiful little girl. In the end all the hard work I have done to make sure she has what she needs will pay off because I have gotten to experience her on a day to day basis. Nothing better than watching your child grow up

You are 100% correct. In the end, that's how I feel about my son's egg donor of a mother. She's the one that missed out. I worked hard with him, and got him through school. He's now in college, doing ROTC, studying engineering, and has turned into a fine young man. Keep a positive attitude, and enjoy the time with your daughter, because it goes fast, and before you know it, you'll be standing there, as a proud mom, watching her get her diploma and joining the big big world.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by nikkij
He obviously never wanted a child to begin with! He just said he did! I love my daughter and that is why I have accepted responsibility for her. I have never withheld her from him. Like I said, he has never wanted to see her or be in her life. Your right is was my choice to not abort or adopt her out, but other than that he also had a choice in the matter. She was wanted by him until a month before delivery. Nothing monumental happened other than the fact that she was about to be real. I have offered him a compromise program but its all or nothing for him. He doesn't even have a permanent address.


I wouldn't have a permanent address either if the government was after me for 140k... even with a good job it would probably take him decades to pay off such a debt.

Did you ever offer him custody? Sorry, I just find it hard to believe that he begged you to keep the child one minute and then just walked away without a second thought.



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