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Time Magazine : 1st, Hitler "Man of the Year", 2nd, One Document, Under Siege...

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posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I'd like to say the same thing, but if we are being honest, I don't know if I can.

If I were a single man, then my decision would be easy! Ride to Live/Live to Ride


But, I am not a single man, I have a wife, with a stable family of in-laws, I have a 4 year old, and a 3 year old. Would I really stand on my morality, just for the sake of making a stand? Would I sacrifice a safe and stable home and income on moral grounds alone?


Lets take something as simple as a recent Fire Services tax/fee. I live outside the City Limits. We have a volunteer fire department, and I donate willingly. Most people in my area do donate. The fire service is terrific, no complaints. Last year, the City of Tallahassee enacted a fire services fee in our area, because they often respond to help out on major calls, and they often loan equipment or training to the volunteer unit. It is a "fee." "Fees" are voluntary, and I didn't pay mine. So, a month or so in, they announced that any unpaid fees at the end of the year would revert over to unpaid property taxes and result in liens.
Property taxes have to be voted upon and approved by people, mainly the county commission. We don't live inside the city limits, so the city commissioners and council members don't get to decide how to tax my property (I don't even get to vote for them)? I didn't pay it. Then, I got the notice that it was going onto my property tax, then I got the notice that my mortgage company had been notified. Then I got the notice that my escrows had been increased, etc., etc., etc. The fee was only $70 per year. $6 per month. Guess what........I paid it. My home, my sanity, my stability is worth more than the $70. I chose convenience and comfort over morality and justice. I was robbed, and I only put up a slight resistance, and then I gave in willingly. Wouldn't you?
edit on 30-6-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by OptimusSubprime
 


Excellent


Additional commentary from Doug Thompson here regarding the Bush quote and a couple of other things he got wrong. You have to give the guy props for admitting it. Unfortunately, those things get in the wild and take on a life of their own.

Here are his words from my link above, regarding the Constitution quote, specifically-


I also let my prejudices get in the way. When some White House sources came to me with a story that claimed George W. Bush called the Constitution a “god damned piece of paper, I believed it without question because of my personal prejudices against Bush. I now believe I was wrong and that the incident never happened. The story in our database was modified to reflect my belief that I was lied to about the statement and I was wrong to print it.


The entire article is very good, and I encourage everyone to go to the link and read it in its entirety.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


blame bush if you want nothing i will ever say will change your mind

but fanny and freddy and senators frank and dodd and the overmanipulation and the government back mortgages created the so called "Economic Crisis" they are the ones who created that and what was there answer to the problems give themselves more control over the system.

banks arent stupid they take no risk and the government part of that equation to giving loans to people who they knew who couldnt pay back their loans.

so i disagree where the blame goes the crisis came from decades of bad policies that came to head under bush.
the government created the housing bubble when it should have never been involved.

more proof that this country has no free market system.

but like i said if it makes you feel better blame bush 6 years of wealth increases the dow over 14,000 right up until the democrats who took power in the congress.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I'd like to say the same thing, but if we are being honest, I don't know if I can.

If I were a single man, then my decision would be easy! Ride to Live/Live to Ride


But, I am not a single man, I have a wife, with a stable family of in-laws, I have a 4 year old, and a 3 year old. Would I really stand on my morality, just for the sake of making a stand? Would I sacrifice a safe and stable home and income on moral grounds alone?


I cannot speak to your circumstances.

Whether I am single or married I would fight anything to remain free.

I have done that as well in remaining free of marriage through being manipulated.


Originally posted by getreadyalready
Lets take something as simple as a recent Fire Services tax/fee. I live outside the City Limits. We have a volunteer fire department, and I donate willingly. Most people in my area do donate. The fire service is terrific, no complaints. Last year, the City of Tallahassee enacted a fire services fee in our area, because they often respond to help out on major calls, and they often loan equipment or training to the volunteer unit. It is a "fee." "Fees" are voluntary, and I didn't pay mine. So, a month or so in, they announced that any unpaid fees at the end of the year would revert over to unpaid property taxes and result in liens.
Property taxes have to be voted upon and approved by people, mainly the county commission. We don't live inside the city limits, so the city commissioners and council members don't get to decide how to tax my property (I don't even get to vote for them)? I didn't pay it. Then, I got the notice that it was going onto my property tax, then I got the notice that my mortgage company had been notified. Then I got the notice that my escrows had been increased, etc., etc., etc. The fee was only $70 per year. $6 per month. Guess what........I paid it. My home, my sanity, my stability is worth more than the $70. I chose convenience and comfort over morality and justice. I was robbed, and I only put up a slight resistance, and then I gave in willingly. Wouldn't you?
edit on 30-6-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)


No, I would not back down, I would fight it as best I could.

According to what you're stating the County Commissioner was acting outside of the law.

Or rather abusing the law and your family with you through it.

I am by nature a fighter, politically, physically, and spiritually.

I've turned down money, power, and other things before, and I will again.

Especially if it has strings attached to any of them.

If I want money, I will earn it, if I want power, I will earn it with honor, if I want other things, I will get them.
edit on 6/30/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


blame bush if you want nothing i will ever say will change your mind


No, I actually blame Cheney, more than I blame Bush, Cheney did more.

Few rarely ever change my mind though.

Whether you or anyone else tries that is up to you.


Originally posted by neo96
but fanny and freddy and senators frank and dodd and the overmanipulation and the government back mortgages created the so called "Economic Crisis" they are the ones who created that and what was there answer to the problems give themselves more control over the system.


The entire scenario was created so they could all rob the Treasury.


Originally posted by neo96
banks arent stupid they take no risk and the government part of that equation to giving loans to people who they knew who couldnt pay back their loans.

so i disagree where the blame goes the crisis came from decades of bad policies that came to head under bush.
the government created the housing bubble when it should have never been involved.

more proof that this country has no free market system.

but like i said if it makes you feel better blame bush 6 years of wealth increases the dow over 14,000 right up until the democrats who took power in the congress.


I blame both Bush and Obama, and their Vice-President's, I've said that many times before.

These bubbles do not happen in a vacuum, they are created, by financial manipulators.

The majority of it happens due to connections through banks and Secret Societies.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


yep just like clintons .com bubble.

nothing new here but who you blame.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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I had to stop and reread several of the responses...

I had originally wanted to post a thread myself over the issue of the time magazine you wrote of you mentioned SKL...

What would the writers of the constitution have done?

Each group tries to use history as its reason to define what it is doing...


So let me look at the history as I see fit!!!!!

I agree that the constitution is a contract with the American people and all the government is the executor of the estate..

I am also in agreement that ALL of the present executors should be fired..... They are not being very good stewards....

So I say let us take a look at where we come from...

We came from many different places... got in an argument with the dictator across the ocean and said FU!!!

sum it up pretty well....

Not really, you see a few things came about from this argument....



Religion-
You are allowed to worship as you see fit, and how....

its the idea of freedom of religion... so

"Lets keep the state OUT of the church and vice versus...."

Idea is to prevent state sponsored religion... their is no exception given... the idea is not to have a church of America sponsored by the government...

a doctrine of separation of church and state...A complete separation...



Free Speech-
You can say what you want, how you want when you want... it is called free expression

NO censorship allowed...

this is one where the government has failed as well..... You allow none... PERIOD

For those that said in the article.... no, it is covered by the constitution...

The internet is covered... no outside or inside interference with freedom of expression....



Search and seizure-

The idea is that the gestapo agents can not search for a damn thing with out a public record of why and cause...

This part is where again the caretakers need to be fired...

This is why most Americans hate cops... I am not dragging this thread into it, but merely pointing to ATS threads alone.. instinctual we hate intrusions on out

This is being abused left and right and their is no excuse... this needs to be completely scaled back...

Agencies such as FBI TSA and others need to be put over out knees and spanked... Do not even try the we need protection argument with me... you are a TRAITOR if you do...

a founder actually addressed this...



"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
— Benjamin Franklin


this alone addresses all of the points on national security..

The idea is we are going to kick the terrorist arse because we are THE BEST!


I could go on and on and should anyone want to ask over other issues I will answer to the best of my ability...I just went over some basics....

ty 4 ur time



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


It was the City administration ripping off people in the County. Taxation without Representation and all that. We don't get to vote for them, or for the taxes, yet somehow they are able to add their "fee" to our taxes?

Anyhow, what if it came down to spending thousands of dollars on attorney fees to fight a $70 fee? What if it came down to losing the home through a tax foreclosure over a $70 fee? What if your children had grown up in that home, and learned to love it and feel safe there? Would your principles outweigh their safety and security? Like I said, I wish I could answer that question affirmatively, but truth be told, I would rather see my kids grow up in this home, with ample opportunites for success, than to let them see their father and his family destroyed while fighting the good fight.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by ripcontrol
 


I left a few areas alone because the basic idea was clear but someone has already pointed out to me I missed a few key issues...

So without further ado...

I support gun control...

I believe all Americans should be able to hit their targets... anything less is pure nonsense

the right to bear arms (i know poor bears) is a basic because it provides part of the legendary checks and balances...

The armed citizens PREVENT bad manners of government... and other citizens....

Perish the thought that armed Americans would resort to violence... NEVER...

It comes again from LESSONS learned from The revolutionary war.... The British went about taking all the guns from the natives... We learned that when someone wants to control a population the first thing they do is take all the means of defending ones self....

Again it was made clear just before WWI and II that this is the methodology of TYRANTS.... Ask the JEWS and RUSSIANS......

lest we forget.... lest we forget...

Look now in fact to Britain and Australia.... no guns....



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


That is also a great point... very good point...

Taxes...

well since I am probably going on a list anyway...

The battle cry of the whole fight was as you said... you bill us for crap and never even give us a say.....

It was the main battle cry....

It would be nice to be able to flag a comment... this would earn one....

Of note, the government was given the power to tax ...... I think shay was right... all I am going to say



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 

Man's greatest hopes and aspirations were written on pieces of paper (or parchment): Luthers 95 Theses, the Bible, the Koran, the Magna Carta, the US Constitution.

Hi Asktheanimals, Just One Question, Approximately What Year would you put The First Written on Pieces of Paper or Parchment Bible at , just interested to find out what Century you Think it First Appeared? There's Much Confusion on This Point and it is Always Bandied Around as if it's actually "Fact".
Peace
arjunanda



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Politics ... politics!!


Dammit man, I don't want drama. I want peace. Peace and equal rights for everyone!



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM
The shredding of the Constitution will be a good thing my friend. When men and women rely on a piece of paper created by man to protect rights given them at birth by divine providence, they have already been enslaved by the enforcers of the paper. Freedom isn't something you put into print for all to see, it is self evident. Any man or woman who asks for their freedom from government, who looks to a piece of paper for what their freedoms are, or who willfully relinquishes their freedom for the sake of safety or prosperity wears the chains of slavery but are too blinded to see them.

Burn the Constitution, throw down your leaders, and walk this world free once more, an individual endowed by your creator needing the consent of no man to be free. It is far better to live or die free as intended than to submit your free will to the orchestrations of others.

The time for man to rule man is over. Watch closely the awesome destruction caused by the masters of this world as they struggle to maintain their power over the masses. What lies ahead in the next few months will be carnage on a scale never before seen. Take it as a lesson that no one is capable of such awesome power as ruling over others either by conquest or consent. Watch as the dog eat dog world we have created of iniquity and injustice comes unraveled. No Constitution can prevent it nor will it protect those who wish not to join the fray.



Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

William Shakespeare - Julius Caesar


"It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" - George Bush

Yes Sir Bush, it is a goddamn piece of paper. Freedom however, is not.

With Love,

Your Brother




I would totally agree but for the fact we are human. Even in the simplest form of tribes people needed some form of leader to bring consensus to the whole. What to do when your neighbor does not love you! tries to take your stuff or life. Who decides where the road goes when you all build it. There has to be some form of government or leader, I hate to say.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Are the constitution and bill of rights just meaningless words on piece of paper?

The answer is yes they mean nothing just like most religious works and holy doctrine of this church or that one over there. I say this because the only real power or meaning any of these things have including the constitution and bill of rights comes from the people who choose to believe them and uphold them. The fewer people that uphold them or believe in them the less power and meaning there is in the words written on that paper.

My point is if you uphold the constitution it has meaning to you as an individual but it doesn't mean Joe over there upholds it and to him it is meaningless. People are the power not the words on the page there just a gathering of ideals of what freedom should be or can be if enough people prescribe to it and uphold it.

Many countries besides the US have bills of right and constitutions how do they affect you and me over here in the US they don't they are meaningless pieces of paper with words written on them. Only the people in those countries give them meaning a purpose.

If we were for example taken over tomorrow by Canada (unlikely I know) are constitution and bill of rights would be stripped from us and we would have to subscribe to their bill. Meaningless unless we the people give it meaning, stand up for it and uphold it.

People are the power not the words, not the government the people made, and not some NWO. Government may bend and break those rules in the name of their own corruption but guarantee there is a point when people will say enough is enough and finally stand up. Look at all the uprising in the Middle East at the moment people who have reached there breaking points and said enough is enough.

US maybe lazy and uncaring at the moment because to many people think what has been put in place doesn't affect them or it makes them safer but eventually that breaking point will come. Some are already fed up but the majority just needs a little more prodding before reaching that point. It's because of these facts about human nature that you can only push people so far before they snap and rise up against their oppressors that I don't subscribe to the notion of NWO unless of course the leaders of this NWO are morons and have absolutely no understanding of what it means to be human.

People are the power not the words on the paper.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


I cannot give you applause so I must resort to this -

APPLAUSE!!

You have always had a talent for writing my friend but this post of yours is truly exceptional, relevant and true




posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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Adolf Hitler was a very very naughty man.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM
The shredding of the Constitution will be a good thing my friend. When men and women rely on a piece of paper created by man to protect rights given them at birth by divine providence, they have already been enslaved by the enforcers of the paper. Freedom isn't something you put into print for all to see, it is self evident. Any man or woman who asks for their freedom from government, who looks to a piece of paper for what their freedoms are, or who willfully relinquishes their freedom for the sake of safety or prosperity wears the chains of slavery but are too blinded to see them.

Burn the Constitution, throw down your leaders, and walk this world free once more, an individual endowed by your creator needing the consent of no man to be free. It is far better to live or die free as intended than to submit your free will to the orchestrations of others.

The time for man to rule man is over. Watch closely the awesome destruction caused by the masters of this world as they struggle to maintain their power over the masses. What lies ahead in the next few months will be carnage on a scale never before seen. Take it as a lesson that no one is capable of such awesome power as ruling over others either by conquest or consent. Watch as the dog eat dog world we have created of iniquity and injustice comes unraveled. No Constitution can prevent it nor will it protect those who wish not to join the fray.



Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

William Shakespeare - Julius Caesar


"It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" - George Bush

Yes Sir Bush, it is a goddamn piece of paper. Freedom however, is not.

With Love,

Your Brother





I would agree with your statement, but the constitution and even the bill of rights were not meant to establish freedom for the people, just restraints on government and an acknowledgment of freedom. The actual liberty of a free people was not, nor ever will be contained in writing, but in the blood and sacrifice of people who have had enough.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by arjunanda
 


I had to look it up but the earliest writing was on papyrus in Egypt around 3,000 BC.
The Chinese invented paper around the 2nd century BC.
Parchment was contemporaneous with papyrus and may pre-date it although no examples exist.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by ripcontrol
 


Which issue were you wanting to write a thread on?

I concur each group tries to use history for it's own gain.

Not sure about Government being the executor of state or not.

If that is so then I concur about them all being fired as they should be anyway.

For being idiots, thieves, and bastards.

The only reason I like the fact of the Freedom of Religion is because of the religion oppression across Europe, prior to the formation of America, but I still see intolerance, ignorance, and religious propaganda, they should have added to it that those religions had to practice it inside their own organization's building and not be allowed to go door to door.

Let us take Mark Halperin being suspended from MSNBC for his comments about Obama.

A prime example of that same said Freedom of Speech which was silenced.

As for Freedom of Speech it is still limited under certain circumstances.

My comment and a counter-comment with my reply back to it.


Quote from : MSNBC suspends Mark Halperin for Obama comments

I'm sorry, why on Earth was he suspended? He was expressing his 1st Amendment protected freedom of speech. Whether he was right, and he is, or not, he is only expressing things everyone else in America are thinking right now. Bush started this nonsense in our current economic climate, and Obama is the mop up man, robbing the rest of the Treasury. I say nay to his being suspended, and bravo, Mark Halperin, for stating your mind through honest opinion. Far too many liars, thieves, yes-men, and double-speaking halfwits roam the halls of power in Washington D.C. and it's time they knew what we think.


Here's the reply back to me.


Other Person (name deleted) :

You do not have the right to free speech when you are on someone else's clock... If you doubt that, go into your job and start screaming obsenities... This does however show the left wing bias of MSNBC... Don't worry, I'm sure he's already in negotiations with Faux News!


My comment back to him.


SKL :

Yes, Jack, I do realize there is an oppression of free speech through working for others. It's called company policy, diversity training, and office politics. Or that ever ignorant "politically correct" nonsense which only makes people acquiesce to other people's terroristic demands of being assimilated into the machine.

My comment was somewhat facetious, seeing as Mark Halperin was on television, the F.C.C. is an even more oppression-driven organization, where apparently everyone has to have moderated and or censured material provided and protected by Government. The problem with this is these same people who demand censorship, due to language, a particular genre of music, or whatever, can always do something else which is far simpler and less a waste of my tax money.

It's called change the channel and don't listen to what offends you. Unfortunately, we as a society are far too enthusiastic to demand others to protect us, then to actually protect ourselves, wherein comes the problem where American citizens get too fat, lazy, and politically ignorant.


So, is free speech really free, or is it limited by Governmental and biased ignorance?

And according to the laws in the works right now the Internet is not a safe haven for free speech.

There are limitations coming, regulations coming, and oppression coming very soon.

Search and seizure?

The 4th Amendment is being violated every single day in various manners.

Look to various Law Enforcement agencies demanding cell phones and scanning them for information.

Through electronic means without a warrant at a traffic stop.

Michigan: Police Search Cell Phones During Traffic Stops

...and...

Court OKs Searches Of Cell Phones Without Warrant

...and...

Leave Your Information at the Boarder: The Seizing of Electronic Devices

Look to various Law Enforcement agencies putting G.P.S. devices on people's cars.

While it is parked on their own property.

FBI busted tracking student, demands GPS spy gear return

...and...

The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

...and...

GPS Tracking Device found in Civilian car

Look to various Law Enforcement agencies recording you if sitting in the back of a cruiser.

A very relevant predecessor to the OnStar process which can listen, record, and lock you out.

Not just unlock and as well they track you whether you're paying for the subscription or not.

The difference is whether you're willing to shell out the subscription fees and if you're intelligent.

The process of reading anything alone is a search, whether with or without a warrant, and a seizure is retaining that information for later use, with or without a warrant, if the 4th Amendment were truly being upheld, those above actions would never be allowed without a special warrant for whatever alleged and or real offense they were guilty of according to Law Enforcement and the Court.

Now, what was that you were saying, and can you clarify your stance again?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


yep just like clintons .com bubble.

nothing new here but who you blame.


That's only because 99.9% of the time it is because of financial manipulation.

Behind the scenes.

In tandem with ruthless criminals who do not care about John Q. Public.



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