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When the Progressive Income Tax Rates were high were the Rich or the Wealthy people still Rich did t

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posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by ctdannyd

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by ctdannyd

As far as American companies shipping jobs over seas, we should tax them the value of the unemployment insurance for each job that they ship over.



That is called 'Protectionism" and only brings about the further decline of an economy.



Really?

We can keep sending our jobs over seas.

Then the only thing we'd need to teach our kids in school would be to say, "...would you like fries with that?..."


He didnt explain it all the way out. If you tax them the way you are talking than the company eventually moves to another country where they dont get taxed as much.




posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by macman
Why does it matter?
To raise taxes is to take away from some to give to others.
If I go from say $150k a year, taxed at 40%, only to go to $300k a year and then taxed at 50%, then why move up in life? It is punishment.

Very plain and simple.



Why move up in life? Maybe because under your example, you're still making much more money at 300K than 150K? And people are motivated by more than just money in life. Crazy but true!

Also, how do you explain the rich when the tax rate was 90% or 70% in this country? They were somehow still motivated to do their jobs and move up in life.

The wealthy have it sooooo good in this country and it baffles me that people are somehow coaxed into defending them. They are paying lower taxes than they have in decades. They don't pay social security on income over 100K (While everyone else pays on the entirety of their paychecks), in some instances they actually pay less taxes than someone that makes considerably less than them.

The real problem is when such a small percentage of the population is continually accumulating more and more of the wealth, while paying lower and lower tax rates, it makes for a huge imbalance in the wealth distribution in this country. I believe the US has the biggest inequality of wealthy of any country in the world. That's not alarming to anyone?


Define wealth and I will get into a conversation with you on that matter, because I agree with some of what you are saying and disagree with other points.

I dont defend the wealthy because making 150k a year to me is not wealthy. Between my wife and myself we make 150k a year and we certainly do not struggle, but we are not wealthy either. In fact, we get taxed heavier than any other tax bracket when you consider we dont have any children. I would call my financial situation a comfortable one, but the missery I have to go through every day is not worth it for the amount of money I make.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Schkeptick
Go ahead, raise the taxes on success. It's one more reason for people to not bother trying, or to leave the USA altogether. We did - and we won't come back by our own choice any time soon. We're too worried about the future there.

What is it now, half the country is on some form of welfare? That is not supportable, no matter how much tax you take from the wealthy. There aren't enough of the wealthy to support that many people - not forever. Then what?
edit on 29-6-2011 by Schkeptick because: (no reason given)


Well, considering the rich-wealthy right most of the litegation and legislation, i say hell yes

Owe rich and wealthy is a annual income of $1 million not $100,000.

Sad times when Warren Buffets secretary pay's more taxes in one year than he did in a decade

Enough with trickle down economics, Nafta, Gafta, as they all have become laughable at best



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by neo96
why dont you people starting thinking about the 74 million americans who pay no tax whatsoever before you start trying to make others pay more.


sigh, this again? You always fail to say "federal tax" when you trot this little half truth out.

*everyone* pays taxes. Sales tax, Meals tax, Tax on gas. The only way to NOT pay any taxes is to either be dead, or not consuming anything.


So, that makes it okay? Why should some people not have to pay federal tax when everyone else does?


Because as I explained here to tax these people you would have to increase taxes on everybody.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Well what's wrong with everybody paying 15% tax on earnings? And including stock holding earnings as part of those earnings, which are not taxed as of the present. Isn't that fair?
$15,000 income pays = $2,500 income tax
$150,00= $22,500 income tax
$3 million (stock earnings) = $450,000
Seems fair to me?
That would mean my tax would be $9,360
Still seems fair.
ETA: sales tax should be eliminated... But taxes on land and boats, cars, etc, would still be utilized.

edit on 29-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: punctuation

edit on 29-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: add


I like the idea of taxing stock holdings earnings, I actually wonder why that isn't being taxed, especially with the financial problems we have right now.

But I disagree in a flat tax and I really don't think it's fair at all to tax someone's income on only 15K a year. Hell, I think it's pretty unfair that someone that works full-time makes can make that ridiculously low amount of money in a year. Look at 15,000 and then 2,500 just on income (which doesn't count SS or other potential taxes), how would that person even survive on the amount of money left over?

Not sure about eliminating the sales tax, but it should be fairly low at the very least.



You clearly own no stock other wise you would know that you get taxed on that money either before you put it aka gross income or when you take it out as a capital gains tax, AND OH BY THE WAY, that capital gains tax is hefty!



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by macman
Why does it matter?
To raise taxes is to take away from some to give to others.
If I go from say $150k a year, taxed at 40%, only to go to $300k a year and then taxed at 50%, then why move up in life? It is punishment.

Very plain and simple.



Why move up in life? Maybe because under your example, you're still making much more money at 300K than 150K? And people are motivated by more than just money in life. Crazy but true!

Also, how do you explain the rich when the tax rate was 90% or 70% in this country? They were somehow still motivated to do their jobs and move up in life.

The wealthy have it sooooo good in this country and it baffles me that people are somehow coaxed into defending them. They are paying lower taxes than they have in decades. They don't pay social security on income over 100K (While everyone else pays on the entirety of their paychecks), in some instances they actually pay less taxes than someone that makes considerably less than them.

The real problem is when such a small percentage of the population is continually accumulating more and more of the wealth, while paying lower and lower tax rates, it makes for a huge imbalance in the wealth distribution in this country. I believe the US has the biggest inequality of wealthy of any country in the world. That's not alarming to anyone?


So basic envy and class warfare.
Because I make more, I should pay more? No!

Flat tax for everyone.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by macman
Why does it matter?
To raise taxes is to take away from some to give to others.
If I go from say $150k a year, taxed at 40%, only to go to $300k a year and then taxed at 50%, then why move up in life? It is punishment.

Very plain and simple.





Because you cannot do math?

$150K - 40% = $90K
$300k - 50% = $150k

Why would you want almost double the money?
edit on 29-6-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)


Yes, I am and was aware of the difference.
But, those percentages were a ballpark and in all reality the tax rate for someone in the $300k would be more like 60%. But with that said, I still don't understand why you and others feel it neccesary that because someone makes more money, that they should pay more money.
By that standard, someone making $150k a year would pay $20k for a car, yet the person making $300k a year should pay $50k for the same car.

It comes down to basic envy of others. Stop worrying about what your neighbor has, and start worrying about yourself and how to improve your life, not tear down others.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Please see the below documentary "From Freedom to Fascism when you have time to understand what taxes are and why you pay them. Also see all the different ways you are taxed. From Freedom to Facism

The US was founded on freedom. Income tax is slavery. If you don't understand that you might not appreciate the foundation, unique quality and sacrifice of the forefathers of the US. If that is you and you have even more time read "The 5000 Year Leap" and "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

Especially US citizens should have much more appreciation for the US and stop looking to Europe as if they had something we should be trying to getting back to. As if you want to apologize for kicking them the f#ck out in 1776.

Happy Independence Day

edit on 30-6-2011 by countupir because: correct link



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by countupir
Please see the below documentary "From Freedom to Fascism when you have time to understand what taxes are and why you pay them. Also see all the different ways you are taxed. From Freedom to Facism

The US was founded on freedom. Income tax is slavery. If you don't understand that you might not appreciate the foundation, unique quality and sacrifice of the forefathers of the US. If that is you and you have even more time read "The 5000 Year Leap".

Especially US citizens should have much more appreciation for the US and stop looking to Europe as if they had something we should be trying to getting back to. As if you want to apologize for kicking them the f#ck out in 1776.

Happy Independence Day

edit on 30-6-2011 by countupir because: correct link


Income tax is slavery...Although I agree with you on your point, who is going to pay for infrastructure? Is it going to be private citizens? There has to be some type of tax to pay for what is really needed and at the end of the day where the TAX goes is really the question. You will call it sales tax Im sure.

People are talking about a flat tax and a this tax and a that tax. FOR WHAT? WHERE DOES IT GO? The problem that I personally have is that I have no idea where my tax money goes or how it is being used. and until we can figure that out (which will never happen) there will be no chance to have a fair and equal taxation in this country....IT is impossible and I would like for someone to set me straight on why I am wrong because there is no good answer.

All of you with your numbers and % signs, LOL, you sound just like the spooks on capitol hill



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by armtx
 


What is infrastructure? Do you mean buildings, roads, communication, fire and police or what? If you mean buildings, that has been built privately since the beginning of time. If you mean roads, some DMV (vehicle registration and other license fees) and gasoline taxes pay for that as well as some private funds that is negotiated by local government when a business is opening there. Local sales tax pay for local police and fire depts. AT&T, it's subsidiary or other communication companies built the communication infrastructure in the US.

There is a big fraud and misconception about what income taxes are and are spent on. We all need to do some reading. The government would have you believe ALL taxes get dumped in one big slush fund. They don't.
edit on 30-6-2011 by countupir because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by countupir
reply to post by armtx
 


What is infrastructure? Do you mean buildings, roads, communication, fire and police or what? If you mean buildings, that has been built privately since the beginning of time. If you mean roads, some DMV (vehicle registration and other license fees) and gasoline taxes pay for that as well as some private funds that is negotiated by local government when a business is opening there. Local sales tax pay for local police and fire depts. AT&T, it's subsidiary or other communication companies built the communication infrastructure in the US.

There is a big fraud and misconception about what income taxes are and are spent on. We all need to do some reading. The government would have you believe ALL taxes get dumped in one big slush fund. They don't.
edit on 30-6-2011 by countupir because: (no reason given)


That is my point, we dont know where it goes or what it pays for. Im all for public roads and public needs, like police, fire and even the water a sewage departments.

where it goes, DUNNO



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by origamiandurbanism
 


no. no no.

and why does it have to be equal?

when has it being equal ever worked in history? provide an example of your equal wealth utopia please. just one example that truly works for EVERYONE.


maybe if more people stopped worrying so much about what others are paying, and just payed their own way the best they could, they would be better off.

and why do people who do dont pay taxes get to determine what the "fair share" is of people who do pay?

how about i come to your house and determine what your fair share of the food you bought/grew/stole/whatever is? or determine what your fair share of internet usage is?


and yeah, screw the waltons who have employed hundreds of thousands of people over the years! and that evil bill gates for being on the cutting edge of a product that changed the way the world works and touches pretty much everything you do every day. how dare them not work for free and provide for hundreds of thousands of people like you do! oh wait, you dont work for free either? you dont employ anybody and pay them so they can put food on their families table? well golly gee now im all confused!

society is doomed because of people who refuse to accept that some people are going to have more than you. thats just life. deal with it and do the best YOU can instead of demanding somebody else do more so you dont have to do anything.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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I see everyone arguing mainly over what an income tax should be. People claim that millions pay no taxes at all. I think the best way to make it fair for everyone would be to just eliminate income tax for everyone. This would save the middle class and poor that want to work overtime but lose all their money to extra taxes, as well as the rich who don't think everyone pays their share. I would propose instead that we have a flat sales tax of about 15-20%. 12% could go to federal, 2 to state and 1% to local governments.

If this was implemented I would also propose that unprocessed foods be exempt from the tax along with certain basic clothing. This would put the tax burden on those who excessively spend. Think of all the millions earned every year from under the table dealing, drug smuggling and sales, and other avenues of untaxable income. This would also finally catch the millions that corporations write off as business expenses for things we would otherwise consider luxury items/spending. It would also let those who wanted to save their money to start their own business or invest to save money faster. This would only truely harm the excessive spenders in the economy who wrote it all off, while allowing the people who fought to stay afloat to manage their money wisely and invest. I think overall we'd have more investing in long term ways that would benefit the economy through job creation and more private businesses springing up when people had the ability to work 80 hours a week and not get taxed to death. This would give people the edge to save up if they truely wanted to work for it and open their own business.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by macman
Why does it matter?
To raise taxes is to take away from some to give to others.
If I go from say $150k a year, taxed at 40%, only to go to $300k a year and then taxed at 50%, then why move up in life? It is punishment.

Very plain and simple.





Because you cannot do math?

$150K - 40% = $90K
$300k - 50% = $150k

Why would you want almost double the money?
edit on 29-6-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)


Yes, I am and was aware of the difference.
But, those percentages were a ballpark and in all reality the tax rate for someone in the $300k would be more like 60%. But with that said, I still don't understand why you and others feel it neccesary that because someone makes more money, that they should pay more money.
By that standard, someone making $150k a year would pay $20k for a car, yet the person making $300k a year should pay $50k for the same car.

It comes down to basic envy of others. Stop worrying about what your neighbor has, and start worrying about yourself and how to improve your life, not tear down others.


Because an additional $ in income in a low income household is more likely to be spent, generating demand, wich in turn generates business opportunities and jobs.

On the other hand high income households are more likely to own businesses. High tax rates are an incentive to keep income low, encouraging reeinvestment (which in turn creates jobs, which in turn increases disposable income, which in turn increases demand, which in turn generates business opportunities and jobs)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Crakeur
 


Your out of your mind



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by KoolerKing
 


let's see, the top bracket is, currently, 35%. if the feds switch to a flat tax, either everyone else gets bumped up to 35% or the top brackets get reduced to this new, flat, tax.

how does that imply that I am out of my mind?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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The wealthy in this country are curretnly sitting on about 1.5 trillion in cash that they refuse to spend to restart the economy.

A lot of that was provided in various taxpayer bailouts. I've heard the "conservatives" blathering about how "hard" they work and how "productive members" of society shouldn't be punished for success. Kind of funny how they define success.

I'm not sure how productive gambling in the stock casinos actually is, but it sure seems minimal to me.

Deciding which stock or derivative to gamble on today seems about as useful and productive to society as working hard deciding whether to hit on 17 with the dealer showing an eight.

Most of the wealthy don't actually work from what I've seen, and I've seen a lot. They mostly demand that others work hard for them, and complain that those don't work hard enough, long enough, and demand too much of "their" money to do so. What they do seem to work hard at is minimizing their actual contributions to the societies they exploit.

I've met few rich people, and zero Republicans, who acknowledged that their success was the result of the hard work of others.

The solution is simple:

CAP WEALTH.

If some are so disincentivized by the prospect of merely being able to accumulate, say, a billion dollars in wealth, I suppose we could do without them, as difficult as the thought is. I'm pretty sure someone would step up and take advantage of the space they leave, someone not so put out at the thought of a limit.

The biggest problem with the super-rich is that they tend to be sociopaths...successful ones, but definitely sociopaths. How else do you explain BP's actions in the Gulf? No remorse, no accountability, no mitigation, no change in behavior, shifting blame...classic signs of sociopathy.

Come to think of it...it's probably as good a test for sociopathy as any: just ask how they feel about a wealth cap. Anyone who thinks a limit on what they take from society is a personal affront to them is most likely a sociopath.
edit on 30-6-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


I'm not implying envy. I am a very happy man believe it or not.

What I want is for all Americans to pay their same percentage of taxes.
I am not jealous of any of the wealthy. You're creating a false situation where because I want the wealthy to pay a same percentage as the majority that I must "hate" them. This is the same tactic used over and over again. If you can't argue the issue, argue the man. It's a scam and you know it is.
Why do you consider the wealthy to be more entitled to hold more of their earnings than those who work 30 hrs overtime to send their kids to college?

If man A spends 15 percent, why does man B not have to? Because man B is a big success?
Sorry but that horse# attitude does nothing but widen the divide between the wealthy and middle class. I don;t have a problem with the wealthy. It's their entitlements I have a beef with.


edit on 30-6-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-6-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain

What I want is for all Americans to pay their same percentage of taxes.


So you'd be ok if, in order to accomplish this, everyone paid 35%?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by armtx

Define wealth and I will get into a conversation with you on that matter, because I agree with some of what you are saying and disagree with other points.

I dont defend the wealthy because making 150k a year to me is not wealthy. Between my wife and myself we make 150k a year and we certainly do not struggle, but we are not wealthy either. In fact, we get taxed heavier than any other tax bracket when you consider we dont have any children. I would call my financial situation a comfortable one, but the missery I have to go through every day is not worth it for the amount of money I make.


I never said in my post that someone that makes 150K a year is wealthy. Although you are making more than a lot of people in this country. What exactly is it that you disagree with? The fact is most people are not making enough money anymore in the US when compared to inflation and cost of living. I dunno, that seems to be a big problem to me.

I believe that people that earn over 150K-250K on a single income have it extremely good compared to everyone else in this country. The current tax rate at that level does not effect them nearly as much as other tax rates effect other incomes. They don't pay SS tax at that level, etc.



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