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(New title:) How are people manipulated by psychopaths?

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posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by atomicn
 


Originally posted by atomicn
reply to post by wildtimes
 


We have millions of people joining military around the world ready to murder and kill in the name of .... Psychopaths are everywhere. The problem we have is Psychopaths making Psychopaths .


I agree with you. What is with the military mindset? The 'kill 'em' all' doctrine. If in reality, everyone were to lay down arms, and come together and share what's here for the sharing, it would be a better world. What keeps that from happening?
edit on 2-7-2011 by wildtimes because: to make reply more easily accessible to the poster




posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 



I think the men and women who feel like the world is full of cheaters are the ones who attract sociopaths and let them into their lives. The sociopath puts up a convincing argument about why they're a better mate.



Huh?

re Statement A above: I think the ones who attract sociopaths are the men and women who are trusting and needy and obviously vulnerable to charisma and charm.

re Statement B: Yes, they do.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by The7thShepherd
 


Welcome to ATS!!
And I feel honored that my little proffer of a thread elicited you signing up and posting!

Wonderfully written, excellent post. Thanks so much!
star, and I'm making you a 'friend', too!



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 



Explanation: Yes! For effect! It caught your attention fair and square!

Personal Disclosure: But this isn't about me ... [rereads thread title] ....Oh hang on!!! Never mind... my bad ... it clearly IS talking about OL and his disorder!


lol! uh, yeah, it was pretty obvious it was for attention.


Now about victim mentalities? Sure we COULD blame someone else!!! After all who was the one who made who? WHY wouldn't this all be God's fault???

Cogito ergo sum [wiki]

Ahhh OK ... because I'm both the center and the one who thought originally! That means I made me and thats who I ultimately have to answer to... GOD! Your looking at him ... its called YOU! Because who was the one REALLY showing the contempt for themselves by associating 'foolishly' with the scum in the 1st place... You play in the mud with the pigs expect to get dirty ok!


okay, sounds like you're going with the observer being the creator. We can go that direction if you like.


OL is a monster and you unfortunately have mirror neurons that act to mimic what I do and viceversa!

or is it the double-slit experiment you're getting at?


Now who is rubbing of more on the other!

Not sure, but you keep posting on the thread, so.......all I did was plant the seed. And voila, it's growing!


Because I could go on to describe in explicit detail how to violently and cheaply ... over throw the current Australian Governement of the day with off the shelf at your local super market and diy store stuff OR I could show how to fix the probs we have with some simple solutions.... again with off the shelf stuff!

BOTH EVENTS would cause the absolute destruction of tptb [at least in australia ] and so regradless of whether I am good natured or not ... the outcome is death and pain for me and others.


In fact, I think that many of us, in our frustration, fantasize about how we could destroy those who we perceive have harmed us or bear us ill will. I think it's natural to 'imagine' what we would do 'if' we were ruthless and remorseless. The diff is, if we have a conscience, we just don't do it - because it goes against our moral compass.


And yet you wonder if OL is REALLY insane or not! Let me ask you ok ... what do you think, AM I CRAZY???


Do I think you're crazy? Nope. Flambuoyant and cheerful, imaginative and attention-appreciative. But crazy? Nope.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Hey there! Welcome aboard and glad to see ya!

I would say in answer to AreaX's question about those people who care about their small group of friends but have no real emotions or care for random other people, that its a question best addressed by evolutionary psychology, than the counseling sort.


Agreed! Or possibly a social worker (i.e. social systems researcher and analyst)
Or a philosopher. ...


Human beings did not evolve in huge faceless nameless masses of others. We evolved in relatively small groups and until very recently, in evolutionary terms, thats how we lived.

No question about it. Absolutely accurate.

This part is for AreaX, and I agree:

I dont think the people you are describing are high functioning sociopaths or psychopaths. I think they are normal humans, and just not "Buddhas" or "Christs." They are functioning as nature programmed them to, to care for their tribe. Not strangers. Although we are imposing some idea upon humanity that we should all get along and not war, nature disagrees with us. Nature dictates competition between individuals, and between groups of individuals in social species. And sociopath is only a sociopath, in natures terms, if it harms members of its in group. Its social group. Harming members of the out group is not a bad thing by natures definition, in many cases.

Which I think is the case for most humans, most humans care for their tribe, however they define that, and dont care or are hostile to those they see as "others."

What IAG said.^^^^


Although the existence of Buddhas and Christ and others of the ilk say that that is a human variant, those who love all beings equally well, and care for them all equally well, and it COULD be that we are evolving that way, or they could just be the opposite extreme to psychopaths, and there is always some percentage of people in the world who lean that way, and some become famous.


And some don't become famous. I certainly HOPE that we are evolving that way. As for the opposite extreme, yeah, there is always the continuum to be considered. It occurs to me that the sort of 'opposite' would be what is referred to as a 'martyr' (in both common vernacular and religio-speak).

I think the tricky part comes in with the psychopath's skill at 'convincing' their 'prey' that they 'do' genuinely want to be a good person, and 'need' their 'prey's support and help and cooperation to get there. Then, once they are in charge, the true colors come out. And often, much damage is already done. This holds true as much in personal relationships between two people only, as it does with entire populations and world leaders.

So, how do we differentiate the ultra-skilled-uber-con artist from the actual altruist, when both have equally attracted our attention and interest?

And once we realize the person is delusional or self-absorbed or false, what do we do? We have known for decades that Qaddafi, for example, is crazy. Why was he afterward allowed to retain his position of power? Why was he not ousted as soon as it was evident he was incompetent to care for his countrymen? (I don't have the answers, folks. It's a rhetorical question to invite debate). Why does it take extreme harm before those being abused get wise, or those who see it as observers step up? Whether in a household or on a global level, the question is the same.

'Our lives begin to end the day we remain silent about things that matter.' (MLK, Jr)

and my other fave: 'If you see a problem, and you do nothing to fix it, you become part of the problem'. (not sure whose original statement that one is).

So, do we blame the oppressed and powerless for allowing themselves to be oppressed and powerless? Or do we blame the powerful and aware who do nothing on behalf of those weaker than themselves?
.....

You mentioned about being a 'watcher', and you and have discussed this before -- yes, with the right approach and the sort of subtle observation that comes with body language, tone of voice, mannerisms (and, I think, even an unconscious ability to 'smell' trouble), we can get closer to the truth behind the other's eyes.

But my point on that was exactly as you stated, literally 'reading someone's mind' to the depth of having lived every second of their lives from their perspective is impossible. It depends wholly on their communication (whether intentional and verbal, or physical and unconscious or not) to surmise it.


True sociopaths are a tribe of one. They dont really extend their caring past their own self.
Perfect and succinct assessment. Thanks.
edit on 2-7-2011 by wildtimes because: add quote box



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
If in reality, everyone were to lay down arms, and come together and share what's here for the sharing, it would be a better world. What keeps that from happening?


The fact that you are wrong in your prediction.

If "everyone" laid down their arms, we would never make it to the "come together and share whats here for the sharing" part of the equation. Which is one of my primary arguments against those who feel a "one world" government would be great and end war. Those arguing for the masses to give up their weapons never do themselves get rid of theirs. And our leaders display a much higher degree of sociopathy than the average person. Im not sure why people dont see that argument to give up our personal arms for what it is. The love bomb or lie of a sociopath trying to groom us for even more intense exploitation. History shows it to be so. Over, and over, and over. And yet intelligent people think it sounds like a great idea. Lol.

What would happen is, everyone would AGREE to lay down or destroy their arms, and many would. But some would "cheat" and simply hide theirs until everyone elses had been destroyed. And then, they would bring them out, and dominate and exploit everyone else. Much like gun violence has risen in the UK in response to the masses turning in their firearms. The cheaters, (criminals) didnt. Now you just have an unlevel playing field. It didnt change the amount of violence, it just made it easier for the psychopaths to prey on the average person.

We DO have a variant "sociopath" or "psychopath" in our species. Its just a reality. We need to deal within that reality, not create a fantasy one, and act from the fantasy about ourselves. Unless we kill that variant out, entirely, we will always have conflict in the species. And I suspect that even if we did kill them out at one point in time, they would simply arise again, as the benefit to "cheaters" is overwhelmingly great if they find a group of altruists intent on not discriminating.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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In my first post here, I listed those (narci-socio-psych)pathology aspects I experienced, such as no introspection and glib.
This is really important, but two aspects I forgot, which I encountered EVERY time with them, was
ENTITLEMENT. And they were INTIMIDATING about it too. Entitlement and intimidating. They will intimidate you into what they are entitled to. Every time they were entitled to get for example, some information, and answer to a question from me, they were immediately intimidating.
I know I have been repetitive/redundant here, but I can't stress enough, to be aware of such. Don't let them railroad you. But see, I used to be a person who was afraid and would never stand to the defense of myself. I must have hated myself alot more than I realize.
I would give just about ANYTHING to get in a time machine and be in those situations again. There would be several sociopaths in the hospital with instant vagina syndrome. From a steel toed work boot.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Okay, I concede. Excellent points. I wasn't talking about "disposing of" our arms (we have more in this household than I can keep track of, my husband being ex-military and reared as a hunt-for-meat and trap-shoot marksman type sorta guy).

What if we all got to "keep" our arms, but agreed to "lay them down". Everyone would still have one who wanted to, for self-defense. Which gets into the whole gun-law theory. Round these parts, there are many who think if everybody had weapons, they would be used far less often. It levels the playing field.

So then the "cheaters" would not have an advantage. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I'm not naive enough to think there would not be "cheaters". I'm talking more about "truce", I guess. As in, "you don't mess with me, and we'll be fine. You try to pull something funny, deal is off."

I know, though, you are right. Sadly, it's not possible in a world where cheaters always win. Heh.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



That was really one fantastic post. And I agree with the grooming etc part and the truth is their silver bullet part enormously.

Very well done. I know those things, (instinctively when dealing with them) but I hadnt consciously elaborated them for myself, and Im so glad to read them outright like that. Yes. Absolutely. Great job.


Thanks


Note to self: "Lycan" is not spelled as "liken"


You know whats kinda creepy...pertaining to Vampire legends, the whole they can't enter your realm or safe haven as it were, unless invited by the owner. Upon doing so you become at risk, it parallels somewhat symbolically.

Again thanks and happy to be here



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by simone50m
 


LOL! Love the visual on that one.

One comment, though. I don't think self-loathing has a helluvalot to do with sociopathic prey-types. I was not self-loathing; I was idealistic (apparently still am!). I believed if I just cared enough, and talked enough, and made an example enough (like when one is rearing children), that I could get through to a person who initially portrayed themselves as a victim and in actuality turned out to be equally predatious. I was wrong.

In my situation, the twist was that this person's alleged "predator" was the one I met first, and played the "I'm a victim" card. At first (being the sucker that I am) I believed them. "Okay, yeah, wow, sounds like your partner is troubled and abusive and has issues." Had a horrid "image" of the person they alleged was the monster (which image, of course, was their intention to build).

Later, this alleged "monster" wanted an audience with me, and I heard their side of the story. At first I had that 6th-sense-feeling "Whoa. I can't swim in this. It's too deep. I can't stay afloat, I'll wind up taking sides." So I sought support from a trusted outsider and came clean (as someone else in this thread recommended). I told them what was happening. This was someone I trusted inherently to steer me the right way. Instead THEY told me "Nah, you can do it." Well, wanting to believe in myself, I believed THAT!

Wrong! I couldn't do it. I couldn't stay objective. And I knew I probably couldn't and wanted to disengage. But I took my trusted consultant's word for it, sucked it up, put on my big-girl pants, and said, "Okay fine, I'll go ahead and try to help."

Mistake! Too late, I realized I had been suckered by both the parties, and had unwisely neglected my own gut feeling (instinct) that it was an unhealthy thing for me that I was getting into. Not that I fault any of those parties. In the end, I made my own decisions. I listened to the input I was getting, considered it, and weighed my options, and chose to believe I did have the fortitude and ability to stay objective while also helping. I wanted to help them both devise a healthier way of coping and relating. Heh. Hahahahaha.

Took a long time to see it for what it was. The two parties were equally psychopathic. BOTH were lying. BOTH were dissing the other as the villain and meanwhile behaving as a villain.

So, there it is.
I was classically "Triangled" into the situation. And not wise enough or experienced enough to see it until I was neck-deep in the situation.

The morals of the story:

Never allow yourself to be triangled into an unhealthy relationship.

And...which someone on the thread has already pointed out very effectively (might even have been you - I can go back and check):

If someone says "You deserve better than me," and "I'm no good," and "What are you doing here, you don't deserve this,", well, BELIEVE THEM!!

I have no idea where ANY of the these people are now, and that's fine with me. The two predators, in the end, deserved each other. They had found another person to triangle in at my last knowledge. The person to whom I went for support was unaware of my weaknesses despite the fact that I tried to express them was only trying to encourage me, and that's fair enough. They wanted me to rise above my challenge, and that is appropriate for someone who is guiding someone else. Nevertheless, I should have stood my ground and said "No, I can't. I appreciate your faith in me, and that you want me to accept the challenge, but it is beyond my ability to do so."

Eventually I DID wise up and say "I'm done." I also resolved and concluded that I would never acquire the true skill of staying objective when my heart strings were plucked. I have neither seen nor heard from either of the psychos since (it's 6 years now! Yay!). Still, there are scars. To have been sucked into something that I had bad feelings about was my own bad. NOW I know.

Now I know my own frailties. And I have a healthy relationship with someone who is reciprocally caring and respectful and validating of who I am, warts and all. Which is just what I wanted all along.

Hope you find the same...all of you who are reading this thread.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by The7thShepherd
 


Actually, it's spelled "lichen". I think. From the context. Otherwise, you did great...!



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by The7thShepherd
reply to post by timidgal
 


Indeed, I have struggled and still do with "revenge mode"

I take some satisfaction knowing as proven the predator will destroy itself. If I(we)have hastened that outcome that is enough. Me and mine never wanted to play the game, had no choice, no control to end it, and for what seemed to be an eternity no way to fight it.

I can't stress the danger that was imminent, it was indeed playing out like a movie, I was not the target per-say, it was my spouse, the love of my life, my soul mate of almost 15 years at the time of the attack. We have children, who also were attempted targets.I had to play the game to WIN I had everything to lose. Using violence was rendered null and void at the time. It became a battle of wit, like some sick mental chess game. I had to keep myself from taking lethal action or any action that would remove me from the game as it were, I had to de-rail suicide attempts, revive the victim, and at times resort to the same tactics that were being used, it was horrifying. (others before us were not successful, other died, by suicide, or at least that was what it had been ruled to be.) This animal upon knowing the bluff was called, the jig was up, attempted to pull a "Romeo and Juliet" exit. It was NEVER its intention to harm itself, only cover its ass, and WIN the game. Only one drink would have been tainted I assure you.

Its been a few years and all is well, my family intact, as well as our sanity,with that We were victorious, deprogramming complete. I stay current with the intel, as this perp is still breathing free air, but our actions with the help of others, has forced the predator to re-locate thousands of miles away. That battle is won.

What happenz and it's strange, when another victim(s) becomes suspicious, and secretly accesses the perps laptop, or (social media sites )



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by timidgal
 


Than you for welcoming me aboard, I am passionate about many topics here on ATS, I have plugged this site numerous times during my college years. This topic touched on a personal level, and because of it I am here. I have written many papers/projects related to my experience with this "amoeba"



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by timidgal
 


Than you for welcoming me aboard, I am passionate about many topics here on ATS, I have plugged this site numerous times during my college years. This topic touched on a personal level, and because of it I am here. I have written many papers/projects related to my experience with this "amoeba"



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



Welcome to ATS!!
And I feel honored that my little proffer of a thread elicited you signing up and posting!

Wonderfully written, excellent post. Thanks so much!
star, and I'm making you a 'friend', too!


Than you, for your kind words and for the inspiration to finally join, my membership here is long over due.
Thanks for the befriending, I'll tinker with such soon and return the action. I'm off for now, cya you all soon.

Peace



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

So, how do we differentiate the ultra-skilled-uber-con artist from the actual altruist, when both have equally attracted our attention and interest?



I dont commit to trusting people until I have satisfied myself that they are trustworthy. I know that some call this a "trust issue." And perhaps it is. But it sure doesnt feel that way in my shoes. Some people are easy to read, and I trust them rather quickly, and others send out conflicting messages, and it can take quite a while for me to decide if they are trust worthy, but with me, trust is something you are careful with. Its not my default position to just trust people until proven untrustworthy. (You and I have discussed this, and your excellent parents make you a lot more trusting of others.) I also am not suspicious of everyone, (which is what I would define as a trust issue, ) I just remain in neutral with a person til I am satisfied one way or the other. Or more accurately, until I learn the ways in which I can trust them and their areas of internal weakness which might make them well intentioned but not trustworthy in some areas. Most people are actually trustworthy for some things, but not all things, depending on how they are flawed and what their strengths are. And those things vary from person to person. Some people cant keep a secret, but they can hold your money, and others are the opposite, for instance.

Watch them closely with others. Genuine altruists arent nice all the time to every single person. But they do tend to be consistent, and they actually feel more "middle of the road" when you are with them. It can take you a while to notice a true altruist, because they arent running all over saving and helping people. Thats a different thing, and Im not sure how to define that, but it isnt really altruism, its a form of selfishness too. All that saving and helping is actually about them, and how they feel about themselves, and the save-ees are a means to an end. True altruists might complain about having to go over and help so and so for the fourth time this month, but they go. They dont go looking for people to save, but they help the people who need their help that they run across pretty consistently. Whats coming to mind are the distinctions made by Kant.

Which boils down to, the person who does the right thing out of a sense of duty. Not because it makes them feel good. Which is just another, more benign form of using people for your own ends. And not someone who does something to make others feel a certain way about them.

Psycho or Sociopaths are too "perfect" when they are good. Its just too good to be true. Who REALLY agrees with you on EVERYTHING? Who really likes everything you do? It does happen, but is it likely? Do they really read the same types of stuff, or study the same topics? Or is they agreement with you in conflict with what you know about their other interests? For me, this is all going on subconsciously, I dont really have to pay conscious attention to what someone is saying or doing, but if you regularly get tricked, do it consciously until it becomes habit to just analyze for logical consistency all the time. Accurate "intuition" is just something you have become so skilled at you no longer have to consciously think about.



Originally posted by wildtimes
And once we realize the person is delusional or self-absorbed or false, what do we do?


It depends on our relationship to the person. But bottom line, its more what you DONT do. Dont do anything you wouldnt do all on your own if no one else were there, manipulating you. If the person is a sociopathic friend, and they find themselves unable to manipulate you, they will just drift away on their own, most likely. Although if you have trouble staying yourself around them, cut them off yourself. Examples, if you would not go to the most expensive restaurant for lunch alone, dont do so with your new friend, meet in the middle if you really dont agree. If you would not talk about other people behind their backs on your own, dont do so with someone else. If you would not wear certain clothes on your own, dont change your manner of dress to suit someone else. If you disagree, just say so. It doesnt have to be a big deal. And if you FEEL like it is a big deal, and feel like disagreeing would cause problems, ask yourself if thats healthy. With a good friend, it shouldn't feel bad to be honest and who you really are. The grooming is a lot of little things, to see how easily you betray yourself for them, so just get in the habit of not betraying yourself even for little things. Not only will you feel better, but its like garlic for sociopaths.


Originally posted by wildtimes
We have known for decades that Qaddafi, for example, is crazy. Why was he afterward allowed to retain his position of power? Why was he not ousted as soon as it was evident he was incompetent to care for his countrymen? (I don't have the answers, folks. It's a rhetorical question to invite debate).


Lol and coming right on the heels of "disagree if you do," Gaddafis didnt care for his people badly. The Libyans had the best quality of life according to UN standards in the region.

moraloutrage.wordpress.com...


A fact that the media cannot falsify is the HDI (Human Development Index) measured by UN officials. Based on sub-indices such as income, longevity and education, Libya is the country with the highest HDI in Africa. Libya enjoys the best distribution of income, and health and public education are free. And almost 10% of Libyan students receive scholarships to study in foreign countries. So what kind of dictatorship is this? A dictatorship would never allow this kind of policy for the benefit of the people.


Here is an article that sources all its claims in the text to save you the trouble of looking on your own.

globalresearch.ca...


ow was Libya doing under the rule of Gadaffi? How bad did the people have it? Were they oppressed as we now commonly accept as fact? Let us look at the facts for a moment. Before the chaos erupted, Libya had a lower incarceration rate than the Czech republic. It ranked 61st. Libya had the lowest infant mortality rate of all of Africa. Libya had the highest life expectancy of all of Africa. Less than 5% of the population was undernourished. In response to the rising food prices around the world, the government of Libya abolished ALL taxes on food. People in Libya were rich. Libya had the highest gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita of all of Africa. The government took care to ensure that everyone in the country shared in the wealth. Libya had the highest Human Development Index of any country on the continent. The wealth was distributed equally. In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.


He might be crazy, but he wasnt failing in his duty to his people any more than any of our friendly leaders down there were. He wasnt the only leader there, also. We act in the West like he is some supreme dictator, but, while influential, he really isnt the only person running the show. Its not our system, but its not what our media is portraying either. He was far from perfect, but what leaders are perfect? The problem with taking the medias word is that they bait and switch you.

A bunch of armed people trying to take over a nation can be domestic terrorists, (in friendly nations) or freedom fighters and rebels, (in nations whose leaders we hate and whose resources we love) the burden is really on YOU, (not just you personally) to find out if two different labels are being applied to the same thing, or if there really is good reason to label them so differently. Our leaders are, as you might know, sociopathic. They dont always tell the truth.

Which is another good point when dealing with all sociopaths. Check the facts for yourself. Always. Dont just listen to what someone else, even me, who might have their own agenda and it may not be one that is good for you. Check everything. Its not that hard, with the internet. The hardest part is knowing where to look, and once you get used to checking facts, that gets easier too.


Originally posted by wildtimes
But my point on that was exactly as you stated, literally 'reading someone's mind' to the depth of having lived every second of their lives from their perspective is impossible. It depends wholly on their communication (whether intentional and verbal, or physical and unconscious or not) to surmise it.


But we all do have millions of years of similar evolutionary pressure. And we arent as "special and different" as we like to think we are. We have far more in common than not, and you dont need to have lived their every moment to get a good, if not complete, grasp of what is going on in their heads. I am continually awed when reading Plato, at how nothing has changed. People havent changed from then to now. Not in any real way. They still have the same needs, desires, wants, failings, complaints, etc. once you get past the superficial differences of culture, religion and technology.

And the more deeply and truly you know yourself, and your own motives, including the darker driving forces YOU have, (not you personally) the easier it is to read others. When we are in denial about aspects of ourselves it is much harder to read others.

being.publicradio.org...


In one of his sermons, the Buddha described reality as a display of pearls—each pearl reflects all of the others, as well as the palace whose facade they decorate, and the entirety of the universe. This comes down to saying that all of reality is present in each of its parts. This image is a good illustration of interdependence, which states that no entity independent of the whole can exist anywhere in the universe.


Know thyself. Not the what you want yourself to be, or wish you were, or others say you are. But know who you really are, and you will know more about others than they sometimes know about themselves. Because thats something you forgot when saying how only you are behind your own eyes. Its not only possible to know whats going on inside a person. Its also possible to know that better than they do, if they are wrapped up in a storyline of their own creation. How do you think sociopaths manipulate people? They know their target, really, better than the person being manipulated knows themselves.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by The7thShepherd
reply to post by timidgal
 


Than you for welcoming me aboard, I am passionate about many topics here on ATS, I have plugged this site numerous times during my college years. This topic touched on a personal level, and because of it I am here. I have written many papers/projects related to my experience with this "amoeba"



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by timidgal
 



I give you and your wife great credit for choosing to devote your time to a subject which exposes you to deviant negativity day in and day out but at least the methods of Exposure seem to have provided you some immediate relief (and I'm not talking about feelings or retribution or justice).


Thanks,but I should clarify,it is not day in and day out, those days are few and far between thankfully. It has been nearly a year since we have reflected on the event, other than inside jokes, or passing comments while seeing something related on TV and what not.I know my post may imply that but, the time line would reveal otherwise. We don't eat, breathe and sleep this stuff. Darkness is something we really try to avoid.It just so happens, after a year of silence give or take the event below started us off again. Also as fate would have it, this OP was started, hence here I am.

Recently some friends of ours, a couple, married, three young sons, devoted couple, excellent parents and good friends requested our help.They moved away some years ago, we were all close. I worked with the husband, and my wife worked with his wife. When they moved away it really sucked. We are 15 years their senior, but none the less we clicked. Long story short, they knew about the events we had suffered and were as helpful as they could be. A few weeks ago his wife called and revealed their had been infildelity on his part and she upon doing some digging, asked for our insight.
Heres what we know so far:
After relocating out of state, and thus had to start a new, build a new network of friends and social surrounds, he had fallen in with "bad company" so to speak. They met a couple who cliamed to be just buddies and not romanticly involved from what I gather, claimed just a platonic relationship. They were employed were my buddy worked.
Ultimately, his new buddy badgered him for months about being "whipped" and "tethered" to his wife and kids. Always rubbing what he was able to do being a single guy in my friends face. He was relentless with it. Obsessive with it. My buddy worked long hours with this guy, 10 to12 hour days, they "bonded" yeah I know. lots of over time always shadowing my buddy. He was constantly then over to my friends home after work too...and again obsessive with the same kinda banter, joking all the time how he was "whipped", Anyway you get the point. His new buddy had finally perswaded him into the "guys night out thing" told him to put his wife in her place,know her role and shut the F**k up. These kinds of attacks are very suttle in their application, but VERY effective over an extended duration of time. They were young and away from all close family for the first time in their lives, moving out of state and attempting to get a new foot hold was the biggest adventure that had to endure... until this event.
I can't keep people from thinking the obvious, but until you been through you won't get it. Believe it or not the "other woman" with the guy who I referred to as "bad company", she had put her self in a situation to be the shoulder my buddies wife cried on, when she confided in her as she feared she was losing her husband. The guy turns out has a rap sheet long as hell, and hers aint pretty either.
I can't say for sure if these are sociopaths or desperate people exhibiting related behavior but WTH?
They seem to come in all shapes and sizes and varied levels of risk, the kind who hide behind the "misery loves company" curtain, or those who just get off on stirring the pot of pain and gossip, some become way to envious of others, and simply want to destroy ....? I don't know, but at the end of the day, I question the stats as I feel It may be more common than what is it? 1 and 25 , or 3% of the pop?

My freinds story is still being written and of course, she and I will do all we can to hopefully help them find a positive outcome, a happy ending. 12 years three young sons, damn straight, we will flood the situation with sunlight and silver, indeed!
I know another girl, she is a recovering addict. She has been in our social circle for some time albeit on the edge of said circle, she is tolerated and sometimes a joke, but I will defend her sometimes if need be. But she is also a sociopath, not the dangerous type per say but she will get on a binge and create absolute havoc via "facebook" and "myspace" it is simply mind boggling at times the damage she can create. Not to savvy, indeed a dim bulb, No she is not welcome on any of my accounts.My point is it's not hard to do what they do,they simply just do what most wont.
How empowering it must be for them to walk through life and simply not care.No regrets, No conscience, No stress, No remorse, No shame, No honor, No virtue, No honesty, and they do this scat mostly out of bordom and in search of instant satisfaction.Behold the "Game". At the risk of sounding to confident in my own research, I find in every situation where someone has suffered, some where in the shadows there is a parasite indirectly or directly to blame. This topic and it's associated rabbit hole runs as deep or deeper than any topic on this site.

Timidgirl, I can't stress enough it is NOT your fault. You were not stupid or weak or anything of the sort.......you were human. That is what makes us all vulnerable. Indeed our "percieved" weakness is being human. But I hope by the end of my stay here, I can prove to you that being human is Not a weakness but a gift, indeed a gift much more powerful than those who would use that gift or lack of rather, to gain an advantage and convince you it was your fault.

There is a "Golden Rule", it is my intent to inquire to the one who claims to be a "sociopath" why his sort can't understand or wont understand the simplicty behind it, and state my case as to why they too must live by it, and prove they have that ability.

Dialogue between The7thShepherd & Wolf1nManskin may provide much insight indeed.

Unrelated: My apologies to the OP and ATS. Upon surrendering my desktop to another user, I created the dreaded "double post"

I then upon exploring the "edit" funtion discovered the "4 hour period" to correct the error had been exceeded

If a mod would be so kind, please and thank you.

Again my apologies to the OP and ATS for the waste of sapce.

Also Unrelated: My keyboard on the desktop is semi functional at times, as it is more of a game controller when not being a keyboard, its in rough shape,specificly the "k" key,please know I ment to say "thank you" and not "than you"
also sorry for the long read , I'll get better


Peace enjoy the holiday.......



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by The7thShepherd


There is a "Golden Rule", it is my intent to inquire to the one who claims to be a "sociopath" why his sort can't understand or wont understand the simplicty behind it, and state my case as to why they too must live by it, and prove they have that ability.


Well, you are assuming they DO have that ability. While there is no written in stone for sure answer yet about why they cant or wont empathize, fMRI show really different brain activity.

www.technologyreview.com...


Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), researchers in the United States, Germany, and elsewhere have started taking scans of the brains of psychopaths while the patients view horrific images, such as photographs of bloody stabbings, shootings, or evisceration. When normal people view these images, fMRI scans light up to indicate heavy brain activity in sections of the emotion-generating limbic system, primarily the amygdala, which is believed to generate feelings of empathy. But in psychopathic patients, these sections of the amygdala remain dark, showing greatly reduced activity or none at all. This phenomenon, known as limbic underactivation, may indicate that some of these people lack the ability to generate the basic emotions that keep primitive killer instincts in check.


While not everyone you describe in your post above sound to me like actual sociopaths or psychopaths, although some of their behaviors are taken from the pyschopath handbook, asking a true psychopath or sociopath to explain themselves and prove themselves "better" people is kinda silly. Its very possible that they really cant.



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by psyko45
 


I believe this goes back to impulse control. Psychopaths, according to the OPs initial description, do not have much typically. One of the self proclaimed ones on this thread mentioned that in the long run he noticed that acting good had long term benefits and changed his tactics, or so he claims, and shows he has some impulse control. And so I think that the ones that manage to amass money are psychopaths with some impulse control, the ones that spread chaos not so much.
BTW the one I was involved with was female.



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