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Today's Immigration vs Our Ancestors

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posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
Boo friggin' hooo. I'm out nearly 5 grand with my wife immigrating here LEGALLY from England (oh no, she's white, and must be a devil of some type, right?). We've done EVERYTHING LEGALLY from the first day. This meant that she was in England and I was here, waiting TEN MONTHS for the Nebraska service center to process our paperwork. So, cry me a river for these criminals coming here ILLEGALLY. What gives THEM the right to break the law, while others do the right thing? NOTHING! Deport, deport, deport. Period!


So your crying because you are a sucker. You did everything legally when it's obvious that you didn't have to and now your mad because others are finding an easier way to do it. You do realize that most government paperwork is just money garnering.

There are a bunch of laws that are still in effect that no one follows. They're on the books but not enforced. Immigration laws seem to fall in that category, at least in part.


edit on 29-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by ABWarrior58
 

It's the kind of people that businesses want. Once forced to live as second class citizens then are easy to exploit. That is why they make it hard to do legally and easy to do illegally.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by YouDeserveToKnow
 


Actually, the people to settle here took the land from the Native Americans as the spoils of winning a lot of battles at times. Other times, they traded for it. They didn't steal anything, and they weren't illegals. They won the land through dirty tactics and superior technology for the most part.

Did they win it fair and square? Not even close. But that's not the first time in history something like that has happened, and it probably won't be the last.

So you'll have to excuse me if I'm not full of white guilt, particularly when I see the Native Americans around my part of the U.S. exploiting their culture for tourists and running gambling casinos.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
Boo friggin' hooo. I'm out nearly 5 grand with my wife immigrating here LEGALLY from England (oh no, she's white, and must be a devil of some type, right?). We've done EVERYTHING LEGALLY from the first day. This meant that she was in England and I was here, waiting TEN MONTHS for the Nebraska service center to process our paperwork. So, cry me a river for these criminals coming here ILLEGALLY. What gives THEM the right to break the law, while others do the right thing? NOTHING! Deport, deport, deport. Period!


So your crying because you are a sucker. You did everything legally when it's obvious that you didn't have to and now your mad because others are finding an easier way to do it. You do realize that most government paperwork is just money garnering.

There are a bunch of laws that are still in effect that no one follows. They're on the books but not enforced. Immigration laws seem to fall in that category, at least in part.


edit on 29-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


I can't believe you even said this! Someone comes here legally and with respect to our laws and Country and you call them a sucker? You condone breaking the law and getting a free ride and taking advantage of the Country?

Thousands of people have died because of illegals and our laws not being enforced. By allowing illegals to enter the Country, you are allowing murderers, rapists, pedophiles, thieves, gangs etc. to come through. It's not just the nice folks coming here. Our citizens are also displaced in the workforce because of overwhelming numbers of illegals. We are forced to speak spanish in order to get hired for many jobs because too many refuse to speak the language of our Country. Never before have we had to fight so hard for jobs, for our very language.

Immigrants of the past came here with respect and gratitude. They didn't have things handed to them on a silver platter.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Night Star
I can't believe you even said this! Someone comes here legally and with respect to our laws and Country and you call them a sucker? You condone breaking the law and getting a free ride and taking advantage of the Country?


I called him a sucker because he was having a go at those that can't afford the immigration process. Turnabout is fair play.

I don't make or enforce the laws of the US. I'm just pointing out that that is the standard operating procedure. The country (government) is taking advantage of you (the american citizens). If you can't see that the illegal issue is their fabrication and also helps with the wealth distribution upwards than you have gotten what you deserve.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik


So they are not americans problems but them taking american jobs is? So that means they are.

I was just responding to a "do it legally it's simple" post when in fact it isn't. That isn't in any way a problem or something that the US needs to change but it is a fact.


I mean it shouldn't be America's problem. I agree with you though, for many illegal immigrants they don't have the means to come here legally. That's sad, but as I said, it's not America's responsibility to take care of downtrodden Mexicans. It's Mexico's.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by James1982
I mean it shouldn't be America's problem. I agree with you though, for many illegal immigrants they don't have the means to come here legally. That's sad, but as I said, it's not America's responsibility to take care of downtrodden Mexicans. It's Mexico's.


I agree it shouldn't but it's the US that makes the laws and doesn't enforce them. It is US businesses that are hiring them so in part the US is responsible for the situation.

I never said it's America's responibility to take care of anyone. There is nothing wrong with the US taking whatever steps it sees necessary to stop illegal immigration but they don't. Call me a conspiracy nut but I think they are doing it on purpose.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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It costs illegals money for stolen identities and false documents. If they were poor, they wouldn't have been able to afford those things.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


I've heard you could get a fake green card and SS card for around $75 (both not each). I'm sure you can get your hands on that amount and still be considered poor.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by ABWarrior58
Before reading on, know that I am not here to please you or make friends, simply to voice my opinion on why I have an issue with today’s large influx of Mexican-American Immigrants.


Because they're brown. We know, it's the same problem all of you guys have with Mexican immigrants. There never seems to be any squawking about all the illegal European immigrants we keep getting. "Oops, I lost my visa, tee hee"


I myself come from a family of Irish-Americans whose ancestors immigrated to this wonderful country in the late 1800’s early 1900’s. Before I go any further let me explain that Irish immigrants during this time were severely discriminated against. However, we were able to suck it up, work hard and overcome such obstacles.


And now you squat in the dirt screeching about how godawful terrible all these papist newcomers are. And the circle of life continues!


When our ancestors immigrated (Irish, Italian, German, Russian, and anyone else.) They did some things that a majority of today’s Hispanic immigrants do not. First off, they did it legally! They were processed into this country, many became citizens or their children were born here then they became citizens. Today’s immigrants ILLEGALLY cross our borders.


Yes, well, they also probably smoked weed legally, too. And if your ancestors were recent enough, they probably drank alcohol illegally. Have you ever noticed that what is "legal" in one era might not be considered such in another? What am I getting at? Here, let me lay it out for you

Your potato-etaing ancestors, like my half of the family from the Island, got off the boat. That's all they had to do. Any port in the United States, all they had to do was get off the damned boat. Same for the Germans, the Italians, the Poles, the Scandinavians, all of them.All they had to do to immigrant was get off a boat. sometimes there was a "processing station" such as at Ellis Island. If so, they had their name put into a book after getting off the boat. That's it. To become a citizen, all they had to do was say "I renounce my allegiance to (insert former nation and its ruler here)" Interestingly this concept forked the same for Mexicans back in the day too, all they had to do was walk over the border and, ta-daa, they had just immigrated legally.

The standards are much different now. Primarily, one must be wealthy to immigrate now. Did you know that? it's not a matter of signing some papers and renouncing your allegiances these days. no, you have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars just to get a chance to see some paperwork. Do you think your Irish ancestors had several grand to spare when they got off the.. .oh, oh sorry, no, they wouldn't be allowed off the boat, they'd have to send thousands and thousands of dollars from their home country to the US, and trust that the paperwork would be mailed to them.

Comparing then and now in an attempt to denigrate modern immigrants is goddamned stupid.


This costs Billions in taxpayer’s money (Department of Homeland Security’s annual budget of $52.3 Billion, Immigration & Customs Enforcement annual budget of $5.82 Billion, Customs and Border Protect annual budget of $11.84 Billion just to name a few.)


And yet all these agencies completely fail at what they do. The problem here is, almost certainly corruption; this cannot possibly be their actual operating costs.


Back when our ancestors came into this country the only necessary govt interference was the processing of such immigrants done by the U.S. Border Patrol.


And there, see? Even you realize that conditions were different, and vastly easier, "back in the day."

Also as an aside? If immigration was handled at all back then, it was handled by the state Governments.


Here is the other big factor, when our ancestors came to this country they were given NOTHING. They had to work for it. And work hard they did.

However, today’s immigrants who are here ILLEGALLY are given more than we as citizens do!


So immigrants today don't work? I guarantee they work harder than you. Aftr all, they apparently don't have the free time to get online and bitch about nonsense, as you do. Further, the majority of illegal immigrants are fully aware of their legal status, and go out of their way to avoid any sort of government scrutiny. Those handful that are daring enough to seek our social services have it no better than any legal citizen or immigrant who does the same.

Who, I'm sure, you also hate, because people like you always hate the poor.


"Amnesty for illegal immigrants will cause costs to increase significantly from $10.4 billion a year to $28.8 billion. This is because an amnesty program would transform an illegal immigrant to an "unskilled immigrant with legal status" who could access various government programs.” – Center for Immigration Studies

"The defeat of the Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act of 2007 prevented the legalization of some 60,000 illegal immigrants, by providing them in-state college tuition and other education and government benefits not available to legal immigrants or citizens."- Center for Immigration Studies

"40% of all workers in L.A. County are working for cash and not paying taxes . . .. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card."

"$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens."

"$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens."

"$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!"

This is just a small example of the cost of illegal immigration.


All from a website that is guaranteed to be completely neutral and fact-based about the subject, correct? Every single figure they came up with is derived in-house; that is, all the numbers you just cited exist only in the files of CIS; there are no official sources, its all "according to our studies," "by our figures," etc. They of course ignore the economic contributions of these people, because the Executive director, in his own words, believes Mexicans to be "parasites."


If these immigrants were to come here legally I would welcome them with open arms! Work, pay taxes, raises a family, that’s what this country is about.


Bullcrap you would.


However, many of these immigrants are criminals outside of the immigration laws.

" Illegal immigrants collectively represent a group that is a significant menace to the public. 80% have committed serious crimes in addition to immigration violations, and 40% have violent crime histories."


I'd be interested in citation on this. These are extremely high numbers.


"Gang investigators in Virginia estimate that 90% of the members of MS-13, the most notorious immigrant gang, are illegal immigrants."


Well, it's a Salvadorean gang. And it's hard to immigrate legally if you have your face tattooed up like a skull and are wanted on several Salvadorean warrants. Even our Mick ancestors wouldn't have been able to pull that one off, I don't think. Of course,MS-13 is a pretty tiny portion of the gang culture in America; the Aryan Brotherhood is bigger, and it only exists in the prison system.


" During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, coc aine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. "


See why I wanted citation for those figures above? That's a lot of people, isn't it? Now you're going to say 4 to 8 million of these people are all violent felons. From a nation that has a crime rate one fourth that of the United States?

What the hell is a "terrorist country"?


In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.


Really? Did you know that immigration status is not noted on warrants? And that sizable number of these outstanding warrants are for an "Unknown"? have you checked your sources?


Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.


In other words, over half. H-uh. Got a source for this one? One that's not a chain email?


Again this is just a SMALL representation of the effect ILLEGAL immigration has had on this country. Again if they came here LEGALLY we could only allow ones who wouldn’t murder, rape, or sell dope.


Better idea; how about we take it as it comes, and just deport all our murderers, rapists, and drug lords? Mail 'em to Colombia, I hear they have uses for such people.


Lastly and the biggest point I have to make, is our ancestors ASSIMILATED. For those who don’t know what that means, it means they adapted! They began speaking English, learning the language, learning the culture while creating their own.


I mentioned half my family is Irish, right? The other half is Choctaw. Guess which side of the family proves you are utterly full of crap on this claim?

The "assimilation" canard is, inherently on its own, utter crap, and here's why;


This is an American Nation, unique in that those who wanted their own culture created its culture. That’s why the culture in Georgia is different than in Minnesota, or in New York, etc. etc.


See, you just undermined your own argument; unless your position is, exactly as I noted at the beginning, that you dislike them because they're brown. You're okay with white people having distinct and identifiable cultures with a variety of dialects and customs and religions. But you're not cool with the exact same thing if done by Mexicans.


Today’s immigrants have no incentive to assimilate, everything is done for them!


Hard to assimilate to a culture full of ignorant half-wits who claim hat your entier family is comprised of murderers and rapists from a "terrorist country" isn't it? It's a two-way street.


If you’re arrested, you can have an English/Spanish speaking lawyer, if you go to cvs and pay with a credit card all instructions can be given in Spanish. You go to the doctor, they have charts in Spanish, if your children refuse to learn English, there are teachers at schools and all they do is teach to Spanish speaking students so that they don’t have to speak English!


...And? There is no "official language" in this country. Trying to push English as such is goofy, given most of our states have Spanish or Native American names, and considering our nation is named after an Italian guy. Doing it on grounds of assimilation is stupid, since I doubt you can speak a single sentence in Pequot or Tsalagi - or even Spanish (yeah, Spanish was here before English; why didn't your potato-eating boat jockey ancestors assimilate?!)

There are customers who speak Spanish as a first language. Businesses like money. ergo business will cater to as broad a range of customers as they can. My new computer monitor came with instructions in everything from English and Spanish to Somali and Khmer.

Might I suggest picking up a second language? if it's good enough for everyone in europe...


Today’s Immigrants have everything handed to them; welfare, food stamps, education, healthcare, etc all without paying taxes!


Bull. Illegal immigrants are unelegible for all of these programs. They might be able to cheat, but the cost for a false ID is actually about as much as legal immigration costs, if not slightly more. And the majority pay incme, social security, and medicare taxes with no ability to collect.


Also, why learn to speak English, if your daily life won’t be interrupted because no matter where you live in the US it’s also available in Spanish.


I'm still not seeing hte problem. Especially for you, since I doubt you'd ever try to speak to someone you barely seem to consider human anyway.


Our ancestors, worked hard, and assimilated. That’s the difference!


Your ancestors floated over, slummed around in ghettos full of their cousins that stayed culturally isolated for the greater part of a century, then signed up for the dole before using government loans to buy land stolen from the Indians. Shut the hell up.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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I agree with the OP. My input is why do people that cannot formulate an intelligent argument always turn immigration into a race issue? Immigration is not a race issue it is a legal and economic issue. My opinion is if there are that many undocumented people pouring over our border, how do we know that ALL of them are here to work. It's a known fact to the entire world that our southern border is a joke. Does anyone REALLY think that some of the USA's enemies haven't caught on to this yet? REALLY?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by EmVeeFF
reply to post by YouDeserveToKnow
 
They have no right to be here! If I illegally immigrated to another country I would be deported, why should America be any different?
edit on 28-6-2011 by EmVeeFF because: (no reason given)


Not in Britain you wouldn't, the immigration system needs sorting bigtime.
But no, The government has got an obsession with "multiculturalism"



edit on 30/6/11 by Gazmeister because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by anon102
 


well put, unfortunately racism, greed and political propaganda will not allow any sensibble or humanitarian solutions at this stage. Help our neighbours with their problems and educate them instead of wasting money killing each other and they won't need to immigrate anywhere.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by anon102
 


well put, unfortunatley racism, greed and political propoganda prevent any sensible or humanitarian solution at this stage. Help our neighbours and educate them instead of wasting trillions killing eachother and they will be happy where they are.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by anon102
 


well put, unfortunatley racism, greed and political propoganda prevent any sensible or humanitarian solution at this stage. Help our neighbours and educate them instead of wasting trillions killing eachother and they will be happy where they are.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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ATS has become nothing more than an anti-muslim/anti-immigrant/anti[insert MSM baddie here] cesspit.

It's legal for the USA to abuse the rights of many Americans under Patriot acts and such. It's also 'legal' for them to kill over 2 million men, women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan. BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT 'RIGHT'.

Today, USA is busy legalizing going against the U.S. Constitution for it's own nefarious purposes. It doesn't make it right.

So don't forget that your people who immigrated to USA bought stolen Native Indian Land had participated in their GENOCIDE (which was legal at the time) no different to what Zionist Jews and USA have done in Israel.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:33 AM
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It was the lack of enforced immigration policy that destroyed native american society. A country without protected borders is like a house without door.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


As an illegal alien for over 25 years in the US I can confirm what this poster has said.

I worked, paid taxes, assimilated in everyway, in such a way that no one ever questioned my my status.

A majority of illegals wouldn't dream of applying for any kind of benefits, because they would then be caught!

My parents brought me to the states as a baby, so I'd grown up there, I never even really questioned my status until my late teens. By then, I was in college and working so, at the end of the day it just didn't seem to smart to draw attention to my self ( and to the rest of my family) by trying to get some kind of status, plus I had two American brothers, active military, surely I would be ok.

After 9/11, I knew that I was in danger of being caught. I went to see a lawyer, thousands of dollars were spent on my behalf jumping through all sorts of hoops to then be told that I had to go home to my birth country and apply from there. In the meantime, my sister got caught and deported, then my mom. They didn't have the money to fight it. My brothers, could have served as sponsors, but their jobs in the military would have been in danger.

In the end, I took voluntary deportation. After 25 years, I was kicked out to what amounted to a foreign country. I didn't speak the language, I didn't fit in - It was hell. In the end I had to move to the UK ( who welcomed me with open arms as I am an EU national) just to have a chance at a life).

The road to legal immigration to the US is a road for the well funded. I was fairly well funded after years of saving and working, but I regret everyday the thousands I spent which in the end amounted to nothing.

I am a hard working, law abiding, fluent English speaker. I vote, am involved in my community, pay my taxes and
and a am good neighbor......and now I am all those things in the UK because the USA clearly didn't want me.

By the way, I never had a any fake IDs, wouldn't know where to get them, I had a SS in my name which my parents got for me in Florida when they first arrived, they are white so no one ever questioned them.I had a DL, a voters registration card and various school documents all in my name, all given freely by the government.

I agree, legal immigration is the ideal way. However, the path to legal immigration as required by the US makes it almost impossible for anyone but the VERY well funded.

Baseball player? You're in!
Saudi Millionaire? You're in!

Mexican farm workers do not have a legal route into the USA but US corporations need their low paid labour, your country does NOT want them to get in legally because your country is ruled by corporations.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


back in the day doors were for weather protection, everyone i khow says their parent used to go out shopping and leave the door open and just the screen closed. People also had relationships with their neighbours and neighbours neighbours. Not about racism my ass. All about economy, thats translates to greed in my book. There isn't now and never will be enough jobs for everone but that doesn't mean we can't love each other and share. I don't know i believe in reincarnatin but seems some people should be reincarnated in a poor or disfunctional country and see what they would do. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. 900 million people don't have fresh water daily, children die every minute. Not our problem. Wake up.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by crikeyoioioi
 


We should work to increase quality of life and help them in THEIR countries. Not let them here. Just like I am all for welfare, cheap houses and charity for homeless people, but I wont let them live in my house with me.

Why should they try to improve their countries when they can just leave? This ultimately leads to both decrease of quality of life in the destination countries, which will look more and more like the source countries, as well as no improvement in the source countries, since there is no incentive for them to try.


edit on 30/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)




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