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Today's Immigration vs Our Ancestors

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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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There are a huge number of Mexicans that are a mix of natives and Spanish, but to say that Mexicans and the Spanish are the same race is just not right, they are not the same race. This is, however, completely beside the point and has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Could people please stop insulting each other and arguing about something irrelevant to the subject of the thread?

Fact of the matter is, there are plenty of Americans willing to do jobs that are currently taken by ILLEGAL immigrants, I don't care where they come from, Mexico, Russia, India, it doesn't matter what country they came from, or what race they belong to. They are illegal, and taking jobs that Americans want, and need.

People always say the only jobs that illegal immigrants take are farm jobs that Americans wont do. I will agree that most Americans won't do field work for illegal wages, but I bet there are more than enough out of work Americans willing to take a field job for a legal wage.

In addition to farms, pretty much all blue collar labor jobs have a portion of the available positions filled by illegals. I have worked in warehouses, factories, construction. demolition, and recycling jobs. Every single one had a decent percentage of illegals.

One factory I worked at got in trouble, and had to fire all the illegals. You know who filled every single last one of those jobs after the illegals were fired? Legal American citizens being paid a legal wage. And guess what? They weren't all white! There were legal Mexican immigrants, black people, Russians, a few Asians, and of course some white people. You know what else? They all paid taxes! They weren't a drain on the economy and society, they brought value to it.

People can TRY and turn the issue into racist white people that hate Mexicans. Sadly there probably are a few people like that out there. But, I'd bet the vast majority of people against illegal immigration aren't racist, don't hate Mexicans, and simply want the law to be followed, and want American jobs to go to Americans.
edit on 28-6-2011 by James1982 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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When are people going to stop worrying about nationality and start worrying about HUMANITY.

THIS PLANET BELONGS TO NO ONE, THE LAND YOU CALL USA BELONGS TO NO ONE.

edit on 28-6-2011 by WXBackdoor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by WXBackdoor
When are people going to stop worrying about nationality and start worrying about HUMANITY.

THIS PLANET BELONGS TO NO ONE, THE LAND YOU CALL USA BELONGS TO NO ONE.

edit on 28-6-2011 by WXBackdoor because: (no reason given)
The house you own belongs to no one that computer your writing on is everyone's
get real.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by pcrobotwolf
 


I didn't invade anyone to live in my house..i didn't kill anyone to use this computer.

If someone in need knocks on my door i would probably help them.

It is sad that the only things separating everyone from getting along is a stupid flag, stupid invisible lines and patriotism..
edit on 28-6-2011 by WXBackdoor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by VinnyEastside
 


It is an invasion being encouraged by the Mexican government. Just because someone has another opinioin doesnt make them a racist. You should be Sieg Hieling your fellow liberals Hilter is a leftist thats more up your alley then the conservatives. You can only try to be funny the OP is correct.

Getting rid of the illegals would help reduce crime, instanlty create jobs and all the money being given to the illegals for housing food healthcare and schooling. Illegals are a small part of this countries problem but a growing one... They do take jobs when I was a kid I tried to get a job on a farm but I was not the right color. The construction jobs need to go to americans.

Americans won against the indians this is our land. The world to the strongest not the weakest. Give up your house then give the indians your things. If the indians had the technology they would of tried to take us over. Countries conquer others and thats the way it is. Its a dumb argument to say that we are all immigrants. Their is alot of differences when the irish came here they didnt expect a free ride like the illegals do.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by mpacc
reply to post by VinnyEastside
 




Americans won against the indians this is our land. The world to the strongest not the weakest. .


Where they really the strongest or the ones with the more advance weapons?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by VinnyEastside
 


Sorry, but you obviously have never lived in Southern California if you don't think it's an invasion. Sometime, look up La Raza, a nice group that even presidential candidates pander to. Their name in English? "The Race". I'd love to see a group of European descent use that name and not get pilloried.

How about MeCHA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán) the student group that supports "reconquista" (reconquering) the area of Atzlan? I believe our wonderful LA mayor was a member. www.utpa.edu...

I got tired of living in a state where classes I substitute taught in were held in spanish and kids answering in English were marked wrong. Can't get a job in bookkeeping or payroll unless you're bilingual. Working in a tax office and having so many folks coming in with a taxpayer identification number (ITIN) (this was when Bush W was touting amnesty) and someone else's social security number on their W-2. I got tired of having to try and fix legal citizen's tax problems when someone and all their cousins got hold of the citizen's social security number and worked under it. Boy did that stink for the person with 15 undeclared income W-2s!

I fled. Hopefully the damage will be contained to the states we have already lost to illegal immigration.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by WXBackdoor
reply to post by pcrobotwolf
 


I didn't invade anyone to live in my house..i didn't kill anyone to use this computer.

If someone in need knocks on my door i would probably help them.

It is sad that the only things separating everyone from getting along is a stupid flag, stupid invisible lines and patriotism..
edit on 28-6-2011 by WXBackdoor because: (no reason given)
Delusions of a peaceful life. Do you really think without the help of this government or police you would not have needed to kill someone to protect whats yours? That someone bigger would just take it from you? Get real kid the Utopia you dream of doesn't exist. People have been killing and stealing land since the dawn of time Think Aztec or england or germany or Egypt everyone has done it no one is innocent not even the American Indians they too killed over land with better food sources but they didn't understand ownership.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by pcrobotwolf

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
reply to post by pcrobotwolf
 


I didn't invade anyone to live in my house..i didn't kill anyone to use this computer.

If someone in need knocks on my door i would probably help them.

It is sad that the only things separating everyone from getting along is a stupid flag, stupid invisible lines and patriotism..
edit on 28-6-2011 by WXBackdoor because: (no reason given)
Delusions of a peaceful life. Do you really think without the help of this government or police you would not have needed to kill someone to protect whats yours? That someone bigger would just take it from you? Get real kid the Utopia you dream of doesn't exist. People have been killing and stealing land since the dawn of time Think Aztec or england or germany or Egypt everyone has done it no one is innocent not even the American Indians they too killed over land with better food sources but they didn't understand ownership.


First of all don't call me kid..i'm probably older than you.

Secondly.. I KNOW IT Doesn't EXIST..that's whats so sad about it.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by WXBackdoor
[

Where they really the strongest or the ones with the more advance weapons?



umm part of being the strongest is having the more advanced weaponry. not always but it is usually a factor



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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Look the whole point is if you want to come to this country, do it legally. Pay taxes, become a part of us and not try and force us to become you. Plain and simple



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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I'm an American living in Mexico. If they had to jump through the kind of hoops I do down here, most of them would go home.

Here, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get a job as an illegal alien. No company of any kind will hire illegals of any form. If they got caught doing that they would be immediately shut down, and fined up the wazoo. So it just isn't worth it to them. If it was the same way in the US, there would be NO illegal immigrants. THey would not stay if they couldn't work to eat, and they weren't being handed all kinds of free healthcare, education, housing etc.

THat's all it would take to fix the problem. No one is taking jobs that someone else doesn't want, they are just doing it for less. Plus the companies don't have to pay any taxes or workman's comp on the wages, effectively cutting them in half again. Since they know they probably won't get caught for it, and even if they do will get no penalties, they really have no choice. IF they don't hire lots of illegals they will be driven out of business.

The govt is doing this whole thing on purpose. They are doing the same thing in Europe with the Muslims. Don't see a lot of gringos flooding into Mexico, nor a lot of Europeans flooding into the Arab world. The surprising thing is, that no one seems to see this being done so obviously right in front of their eyes. It is all part of the plan.

WAKE UP MORONS>



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by WXBackdoor

Where they really the strongest or the ones with the more advance weapons?


That's like asking "was John really the tallest person in the room, or was he just taller than the second tallest person in the room?"

Technology, numbers, raw resources, and skill are what make a military force strong. So yes, they were the strongest, because they had more advanced weapons, and they won.

I doubt anybody is happy that the native's way of life was destroyed, but that's what happened, and it's nowhere near the first, or the last time this will happen.

Do you think none of the tribes ever went to war against each other? Because they did.


Originally posted by WXBackdoor
reply to post by pcrobotwolf
 


I didn't invade anyone to live in my house..i didn't kill anyone to use this computer.

If someone in need knocks on my door i would probably help them.

It is sad that the only things separating everyone from getting along is a stupid flag, stupid invisible lines and patriotism..
edit on 28-6-2011 by WXBackdoor because: (no reason given)


Someone invaded someone, and someone killed someone, so that YOU could live in your house. Doesn't matter if it was you personally, people died to give you the life you currently have. It doesn't even matter if you aren't an American, I can't think of any country on the planet that wasn't taken from someone. All of our lives are the result of wars fought and land taken. You reap the benefits and then denounce the action.

The issue here isn't a stupid flag, a stupid invisible line, or patriotism. The issue here, is people legally living here don't have jobs, because people illegally living here have taken them. We live in the real world, and in the real world it's against the real law to live and work in the US without taking the proper steps.

Do you just want everyone to be able to move around, and live and work anywhere on the whole planet without going through anything? I can just pick up and live in Germany without having to become a citizen?

There are very real problems with what you suggest. As a working citizen of the US you are entitled to social security, unemployment, medicare, etc. Under your idea, anyone can just walk in and take these things from those that worked hard to provide the money for those programs.

Please join us in the real world, if you will.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by CaptChaos
 


Thanks for the post.

So, all you supporters of illegal immigrants, what do you have to say? Why should the US allow illegals to come work here and steal our services, but an American can't go down to Mexico and do the same thing? Don't you see that as hypocritical? Are you whining that Mexico won't allow illegal Americans to live and work in Mexico? Why not? Hypocrite much?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by ABWarrior58
 


I didn't read through the 3 pages of responses. I didn't have to. I just want to say your 100% CORRECT. Your post was very straight forward, very factual and to the point. Too many people are afraid to say the things you said. But its true. Where I live, we've had an influx of the MS-13 gang. When I was a kid growing up, we never had ANY gangs. Oh.. occasionally you might hear mention of Crips or Bloods. But not like it is now with MS-13. And to think, if our government had been doing their job policing the border, we wouldn't have this problem. But instead I have to worry about the environment my 9-year old son is growing up in.

The problem is, we live in a society now where everyone wants everything handed to them. And if you don't, your discriminating against them. There used to be pride in being an American. Now it seems the "melting pot" has boiled over. But of course if you are against illegal immigration, your labeled as a bigot, or a racist. How dare you expect people to follow the same laws we have to. Yes.. Native American's were here first. Yes, our ancestors were immigrants too. But just like the OP stated... they assimilated. Could you imagine if everyone filed off the boats at Ellis Island and stuck their hand out asking for free food, health care, tax free wages, discounted shelter, college tuition aid and so much more? No way. They worked their asses off to build this country. They didn't get hand outs. They didn't have everything translated into their native language to make things "easier" for them. They learned. They worked hard and at the end of the day they could call themselves Americans. But today it is not like that for the illegal immigrants. They want their tax free wages so they can send their money down to Mexico. If they get hurt on the job, they get free health care. If they have children while they are here, they are automatically citizens. Quite honestly it is a HUGE slap in the face to all the immigrants who DO come here legally and go through the system. I'm sure every one of them ask themselves, "if they can get away with it.. could I?".

I have no problem with people wanting to immigrate to this country. But do it legally. I know the system sucks. It takes forever. Its flawed. But guess what. That is the way it is with many things. We all have to deal with it. It is one of the joys of being an American. There are so many immigrants who do legally come to this country today. They WANT to be here. They WANT the so-called American dream (even though it doesn't exist. Hate to break it to them). They learn English. They learn American history. They become legal citizens. But then we have the hand-out immigrants. They come here and work tax free. They get government benefits free. Free health care. If they commit a crime they are "deported" and 99% of the time just hop the fence and come right back.

We seem to live in such a "Politically Correct" society now days that you can't even question these issues. If you do, your a racist. You should attend sensitivity training. There is something mentally wrong with you. But the truth is the truth. People who come into this country illegally are BREAKING THE LAW. If the system is not going to enforce the laws against them, then they have no right to enforce all other laws as well.

I think the reason that the Mexican border is NOT secured is because certain people in power WANT this immigration problem. The more everything is "mixed" together, the faster we can have the North American Union.

(its late.. sorry if im all over the place in this post)..



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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www.humanevents.com...

We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let's look at Mexico's main immigration law.

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices versus its American
immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by ABWarrior58
Look the whole point is if you want to come to this country, do it legally. Pay taxes, become a part of us and not try and force us to become you. Plain and simple


You do realize that this option is not available to many? Also US companies have been known to recruit illegals in Mexico and lure them with the promise of a job. You'd think it was all done on purpose.

A liitle old but still:
Illegal aliens recruit workers


A growing number of U.S. employers in need of cheap labor are turning to illegal workers to recruit friends and relatives back home, and to smugglers to find job seekers.



edit on 28-6-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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No American citizen should have to lose a job to an illegal. No American citizen should be forced to speak spanish in order to get hired. Illegals today are catered to while citizens fall through the cracks. It's a shame what is happening all across the USA.

To those who welcome open borders, you are allowing murderers, pedophiles, thieves, gangs etc. to come here. Illegals have no background or health checks.

Thousands of citizens have died because of illegals and our laws not being enforced. Millions of our citizens are jobless while illegals get hired instead. This is neither right nor fair.
edit on 29-6-2011 by Night Star because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


You bring up another point that I didn't think of, American workers having to cater to immigrants.

As I've said I work labor jobs, warehouses, factories, etc. I've had several warehouse and factory positions that I've applied to, that require you to speak English and Spanish. There is no reason, other than to cater to immigrants, that I would have to speak Spanish to work there. This is just ridiculous. My possible job opportunities are lower because illegal immigrants are coddled by shady businesses and liberals.

I worked at a place that manufactured RVs. I was up for a promotion to become a manager. I was asked if I spoke Spanish, I said no. I didn't get the promotion, I spoke with one of the HR people involved that I was pretty buddy-buddy with. She told me they needed a manager that spoke Spanish, because some of the workers there couldn't speak English, so the person in charge of them needed to be able to communicate with them.

Makes perfect sense, obviously a manager needs to be able to talk with the people he oversees. But how messed up is it, that people that come here illegally don't have to learn our language, yet someone born here, in an English speaking nation, needs to learn THEIR language from THEIR country just to advance in a field in MY country? That's just not right.

And I'm in Oregon, I can't even imagine how bad it is on the border states or those that are more southern.

I have personally been negatively effected several times by illegal immigration. I have experience, and know what I'm talking about when I involve myself in these types of threads. What irritates me to no end, are the people who are so far removed from the world or labor (that usually involves illegals) that they just have no idea what's going on. All they know is the leftist liberal BS they hear on the news or from whatever bogus source. The sit in their little office pushing paper, completely unaffected by illegals, and then attack people like me for being upset with illegals. When it's YOUR job on the line, and YOUR wallet that gets hit because of them, maybe then YOU will finally get it. I hope you don't have to deal with that sort of thing, but if that's what it takes for you to wake up, then maybe you should have to experience it.
edit on 29-6-2011 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by daskakik

You do realize that this option is not available to many? Also US companies have been known to recruit illegals in Mexico and lure them with the promise of a job. You'd think it was all done on purpose.



Why is that the problem of Americans? If your child was sick, and your neighbor's child was sick, who would you take care of first, your child, or your neighbor's child?

It's not Canada's problem that some American's can't legally move there to work, just like it's not American's problem that some Mexican's cant legally move here to work.

I feel for these people, I really do. But they are the responsibility of THEIR government and THEIR people, not the government and people of the USA. Why should an American have to give up a job just so an illegal Mexican immigrant can have one? How is that right?

As far as employers that lure illegal immigrants across the border, they should be shut down or heavily fined. I don't like them anymore than I like illegal immigrants coming here. And before you misconstrue that, I don't have a problem with the people themselves. I don't hate someone because they are here illegally. They are humans, they are just doing what they feel is best. But I'm not going to support their actions, when it negatively effects legal American citizens.




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