What muslims really think about Terrorism, Democracy and the West

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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
the minute the mullah says, " Kill the Christians, Kill the Jews, riot in the streets ! " They will obey, and they will do so as if their god allah were saying it himself. They have no choice. If you read the Quran you'll see what the commands are and what they "must" do.


This dehumanizes muslims making them look like borgs who are ready for violence at the push of a button. As you could see in the stats polled, shia and sunni, turks and pakistanis have very different views of what is to be done.

Your average muslim family is very different from your skilled and trained warrior. What is it in people that resists discernment?




posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Those 95% you speak of are from the people that actually believe what the MSM says but in truth they don't reflect the belief's of most of us and I question the validity of polls altogether.

I know enough people that could care less what ordinary Muslims do on a daily basis that automatically would overshadow and lower the supposed 95%.

I'm tired of listening to Muslims complain, period, and I don't believe a single word the media says. But when I hear Muslims rant and complain it's not a poll that shows this or that it's coming straight from their own holes.

Everyone has their opinion and thats mine and I won't debate it.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
There are no ordinary muslims. They are Borg, they are one.


The variety of muslims is similar to the variety of Christians. Could you imagine evangelical protestants uniting with Catholics? Probably not. And the diversity is a good thing, otherwise Borg-ism does arise. There are HUNDREDS of different muslim sects and variations. There is no such thing as "the" muslim.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by JAGx1981
I'm tired of listening to Muslims complain, period,


There are no muslims in this thread complaining.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by JAGx1981
I'm tired of listening to Muslims complain, period,


There are no muslims in this thread complaining.


Here come the "shut up, you islamic apologist!!!" responses...



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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I'm going to bring up a very controversial view, its one I've had for years. The world is run in a sense by one group who call the shots, like a pyramid, but really many different warlords/mafia lords, negatives or renegades overseeing each slave pen. People are indoctrinated and abused in the system. Why do so many put up with Sharia, theorcracies and what many view primitive divisions. Not like Morrocco, for example, where culture is more evident, but equality is also more persistent. If I were to visit the middle east I would chose a very modern, more equalized society, myself? Why do so many put up with unequal situations.

Or in India, the unequal distribution, the poverty? So not just muslim either.

My controversial viewpoint is that they program men, even amongst the poor in India, that they're the king of the castle, and they're so accustomed to this, that western thought, or equalizing economically or in other ways would usurp their kingdom. So it works to an extent to them, there is a payoff. Ego gratificiation and dominance works to maintain unjust systems.

Note, while looking for some good videos, on modern muslim men and women, because there seems to be an opinion expressed by some that Muslims are too backward to even be competent enough to participate in surveys, as if great advances in science and medicine did not come from Islam.

But I found a more shocking video, and while its intent may be to promote anti muslim feelings, its still a reality that no matter how we oversee it, this is far more permissible in that system.

I believe the systems of inequality continue due to the reward to common male, he is the dominant king of his castle, therefore western values would usurp him.

So this isn't being put out in anti muslim way, but for awareness. Because its real.


Muslim husband kicks, hits and beats wife - wake up America


Man slaps wife at their wedding. (I changed the title)

This is the reason it continues, to me its due to wishing to be king of the castle, a pay off, trade off.

Yet this is also programming, and its not set in stone. I feel that integration, a bit, freedom from forcing, ie democracies, without Sharia and mulitculturalism, can change this.

So every household is its own little pyramid, and western equality value would turn the pyramids upside down a bit.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by JAGx1981
I'm tired of listening to Muslims complain, period,


There are no muslims in this thread complaining.


This is when you know a thread is lagging and when to get out, when out of everything, a person finds one thing to be sarcastic about for the sake of arguement or to cause one, and just cause your a gold contributor moderator doesn't put you on pedestal, not in my eyes.

I'm out, good luck with debates that will lead to more arguements and debates.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Seen this one before I caught out, awe you didn't get the response you longed for, I don't use those type of terms, I hate no one or religion. Sorry.

Peace out!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


I happen to disagree with you on this...These polls are nice and all, but they don't present the reality of what puts them at odds with people in the west. The differences between the Islamic world and the world of the West can be too much to expect both to coexist peacefully within another. It's not possible in my view. Unless the Muslims assimilate in the West...there will be no peace. If Muslims want to live outside of Western law and custom, then they should not be living in the West in the first place.
edit on 28-6-2011 by laiguana because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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Here is a look at the sophistication and beauty of a huge segment of humanity, and I only wish, that freedom would prevail, religions or spiritual pursuits seen as that which nourishes the soul, and gives respite, but not a way of life, custom, law, and institute for justice. That their culture can be appreciated by the world, their music, which is beautiful, dance, (I love belly dancing), much the way, Greece, has its own culture, Italy, Portugal. Why is it that we are living in a world with so much fascism? And why assume there are not large numbers aware, who can't change things that the bloodlines dictate, anymore than we seem to be able to affect our leaders here?


Cairo City Tour, Egypt by Asiatravel.com

A look at the Cairo City, and their debate in the coffeshop, how could anyone assume these people are incapable of participating in surveys?


Dubai City Tour [HD]


Morrocco.women 's.rights.

What would make one assume that Islam citizens have no ability to participate in surveys, or wouldn't even wish to let their opinions be known. Have to talked to many here that like taking surveys, they feel its a chance to give their views. They wish there were more and even better ones.

Sociology was one of my favorite subjects when I was younger, and had always planned on going into this, when I was younger, and still dreaming of university.

Society, culture, humanity is the most fascinating study there is, lands and people.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Fromabove
The average muslim on the street might want to just live a somewhat normal life working, being with family, etc. But the minute the mullah says, " Kill the Christians, Kill the Jews, riot in the streets ! " They will obey, and they will do so as if their god allah were saying it himself. They have no choice. If you read the Quran you'll see what the commands are and what they "must" do.

Democracy to a muslim is a strange thing. They neither grasp nor understand what it is. There is only the mullah, the quran, and the appointed king.

Is doesn't matter what they think terrorism is, because they cannot go against the mullahs or the quran. If they say hamas are terrorists, and hamas has the decree from the mullah by a " fatwah ", that muslim who does so may be freely killed for such words.

Islam is a force. It allows no independent thought. It is slavery. They are all in their own little prisons with no hope of getting out.

In ending and o point I will tell you what terrorism is. It is the intention infliction of fear in order to make the object of the fear comply. Islam inflicts fear to obey, fear to live under it's law, fear to bow to the few who rule by decree. This is why their emblem is the sword. Need any more be said ?


Who the heck follows a "mullah" if not from Iran or adhering to the Shi'i doctrine? I'm muslim and have NEVER had a mullah.


Ok.. ok.. lets call him the cleric, the guy in the mosque.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Fromabove
the minute the mullah says, " Kill the Christians, Kill the Jews, riot in the streets ! " They will obey, and they will do so as if their god allah were saying it himself. They have no choice. If you read the Quran you'll see what the commands are and what they "must" do.


This dehumanizes muslims making them look like borgs who are ready for violence at the push of a button. As you could see in the stats polled, shia and sunni, turks and pakistanis have very different views of what is to be done.

Your average muslim family is very different from your skilled and trained warrior. What is it in people that resists discernment?


muslims have opinions, but in the end if they do not obey they are against allah and the prophet, and as a muslim you don't want to go there.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Fromabove
The average muslim on the street might want to just live a somewhat normal life working, being with family, etc. But the minute the mullah says, " Kill the Christians, Kill the Jews, riot in the streets ! " They will obey, and they will do so as if their god allah were saying it himself. They have no choice. If you read the Quran you'll see what the commands are and what they "must" do.

Democracy to a muslim is a strange thing. They neither grasp nor understand what it is. There is only the mullah, the quran, and the appointed king.

Is doesn't matter what they think terrorism is, because they cannot go against the mullahs or the quran. If they say hamas are terrorists, and hamas has the decree from the mullah by a " fatwah ", that muslim who does so may be freely killed for such words.

Islam is a force. It allows no independent thought. It is slavery. They are all in their own little prisons with no hope of getting out.

In ending and o point I will tell you what terrorism is. It is the intention infliction of fear in order to make the object of the fear comply. Islam inflicts fear to obey, fear to live under it's law, fear to bow to the few who rule by decree. This is why their emblem is the sword. Need any more be said ?


Who the heck follows a "mullah" if not from Iran or adhering to the Shi'i doctrine? I'm muslim and have NEVER had a mullah.


Ok.. ok.. lets call him the cleric, the guy in the mosque.


Again, he, has no authority. Not sure if you knew, which obviously you don't but most muslims don't even attend just ONE specific masjid. Whichever is the most convenient at the time where we're going. That "adhering to one imam" is an eastern thing. Your statement might apply to THEM but not us in America.

There is no clergy in Islam.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Fromabove
There are no ordinary muslims. They are Borg, they are one.


The variety of muslims is similar to the variety of Christians. Could you imagine evangelical protestants uniting with Catholics? Probably not. And the diversity is a good thing, otherwise Borg-ism does arise. There are HUNDREDS of different muslim sects and variations. There is no such thing as "the" muslim.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)


Have you read the quran ? Unlike Christianity where the relationship between God and man is optional (free will), the quran of Islam demands obedience and service. You simply cannot choose not to do something because you will put yourself in the position of defying allah and the command of the prophet. Christians worship God in a variety of ways. But muslims can only worship and serve as it is written without dissent.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Fromabove
The average muslim on the street might want to just live a somewhat normal life working, being with family, etc. But the minute the mullah says, " Kill the Christians, Kill the Jews, riot in the streets ! " They will obey, and they will do so as if their god allah were saying it himself. They have no choice. If you read the Quran you'll see what the commands are and what they "must" do.

Democracy to a muslim is a strange thing. They neither grasp nor understand what it is. There is only the mullah, the quran, and the appointed king.

Is doesn't matter what they think terrorism is, because they cannot go against the mullahs or the quran. If they say hamas are terrorists, and hamas has the decree from the mullah by a " fatwah ", that muslim who does so may be freely killed for such words.

Islam is a force. It allows no independent thought. It is slavery. They are all in their own little prisons with no hope of getting out.

In ending and o point I will tell you what terrorism is. It is the intention infliction of fear in order to make the object of the fear comply. Islam inflicts fear to obey, fear to live under it's law, fear to bow to the few who rule by decree. This is why their emblem is the sword. Need any more be said ?


Who the heck follows a "mullah" if not from Iran or adhering to the Shi'i doctrine? I'm muslim and have NEVER had a mullah.


Ok.. ok.. lets call him the cleric, the guy in the mosque.


Again, he, has no authority. Not sure if you knew, which obviously you don't but most muslims don't even attend just ONE specific masjid. Whichever is the most convenient at the time where we're going. That "adhering to one imam" is an eastern thing. Your statement might apply to THEM but not us in America.

There is no clergy in Islam.


let me ask you this, when a Fatwah is given, who obeys it ? Are you telling me that muslims can just disregard the quran willy nilly, not even attend mosque (prayers are commanded by the prophet), and ignore the clerics ?




edit on 28-6-2011 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Fromabove
The average muslim on the street might want to just live a somewhat normal life working, being with family, etc. But the minute the mullah says, " Kill the Christians, Kill the Jews, riot in the streets ! " They will obey, and they will do so as if their god allah were saying it himself. They have no choice. If you read the Quran you'll see what the commands are and what they "must" do.

Democracy to a muslim is a strange thing. They neither grasp nor understand what it is. There is only the mullah, the quran, and the appointed king.

Is doesn't matter what they think terrorism is, because they cannot go against the mullahs or the quran. If they say hamas are terrorists, and hamas has the decree from the mullah by a " fatwah ", that muslim who does so may be freely killed for such words.

Islam is a force. It allows no independent thought. It is slavery. They are all in their own little prisons with no hope of getting out.

In ending and o point I will tell you what terrorism is. It is the intention infliction of fear in order to make the object of the fear comply. Islam inflicts fear to obey, fear to live under it's law, fear to bow to the few who rule by decree. This is why their emblem is the sword. Need any more be said ?


Who the heck follows a "mullah" if not from Iran or adhering to the Shi'i doctrine? I'm muslim and have NEVER had a mullah.


Ok.. ok.. lets call him the cleric, the guy in the mosque.


Again, he, has no authority. Not sure if you knew, which obviously you don't but most muslims don't even attend just ONE specific masjid. Whichever is the most convenient at the time where we're going. That "adhering to one imam" is an eastern thing. Your statement might apply to THEM but not us in America.

There is no clergy in Islam.


let me ask you this, when a Fatwah is given, who obeys it ? Are you telling me that muslims can just disregard the quran willy nilly, not even attend mosque (prayers are commanded by the prophet), and ignore the clerics ?




edit on 28-6-2011 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)


Lol how did you come up with all that CRAP based off what I said?
I said: Muslims don't attend ONE masjid, but a variety, it just depends on which is most convenient to our current location. We don't "subscribe" to a masjid.

Next - When a fatwah is given, it is given by a man who is considered well versed, however, his fatwah, is not something that HAS to be obeyed. That's just another dumb misconception. Just because one sheikh from some farrrrr off country says something doesn't mean anything. Fatwahs don't come from Qur'an, so yes, we do obey the Qur'an.

I can give a fatwah tomorrow, not a SINGLE person has to listen.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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Also, Islam was upgrading to modern times until decades ago, Saudi Arabia, in conjunction with the Cia/Us/UK, interests, which then would go to Rome, and wherever, the final trail leads, introduced Sharia, and the burka, it was promoted with a kind of assistance to poor families, who need baby forumal and diapers.

The link between, TPTB, the Nazi's and the Muslim Brotherhood is quite strong.

To assume anything about 1.57 billion human beings, without understanding, that they are being used, is to just buy into programming. Fundamentalism, in Islam, Judaism, and somewhat in Christianity, (early Christians were far more equalized), being encouraged to follow the ancient ways of non modern people, the scripts that were harsh and warring, or the black squares in the masonic tiles, coded into all relgions, is not conducive to anyones well being. We should be striving to find inroads as citizens, together, to bypass the current leadership of this world, and educate nudge those who are heavily programmed, with respect for the safety of those doing so in the middle east.


The Nazi Origins of Modern Muslim Terror

www.travelbrochuregraphics.com...


The Wahhabis were but one sect among a back-to-the-roots movement in Islam that had limited attraction overseas. But that began to change, first with the flood of oil money in the 1970s, which filled Saudi coffers with billions of petrodollars. Next came the Iranian revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, in 1979. Most ominously for the Saudis, however, was a third shock that same year: the brief but bloody takeover by militants of the Grand Mosque in Mecca.

Threatened within the kingdom, and fearful that the radicals in Tehran would assert their own leadership of the Muslim world, the Saudis went on a spending spree. From 1975 through last year, the kingdom spent over $70 billion on overseas aid, according to a study of official sources by the Center for Security Policy, a Washington think tank. More than two thirds of that amount went to "Islamic activities"--building mosques, religious schools, and Wahhabi religious centers, says the CSP's Alex Alexiev, a former CIA consultant on ethnic and religious conflict. The Saudi funding program, Alexiev says, is "the largest worldwide propaganda campaign ever mounted"--dwarfing the Soviets' propaganda efforts at the height of the Cold War. The Saudi weekly Ain al-Yaqeen last year reported the cost as "astronomical" and boasted of the results: some 1,500 mosques, 210 Islamic centers, 202 colleges, and nearly 2,000 schools in non-Islamic countries.

Key to this evangelical tour de force were charities closely tied to Saudi Arabia's ruling elite and top clerics. With names like the Muslim World League and its affiliate, the International Islamic Relief Organization, the funds spent billions more to spread Wahhabism. The IIRO, for example, took credit for funding 575 mosques in Indonesia alone. Accompanying the money, invariably, was a blizzard of Wahhabist literature. Wahhabist clerics led the charge, causing moderate imams to worry about growing radicalism among the faithful. Critics argue that Wahhabism's more extreme preachings--mistrust of infidels, branding of rival sects as apostates, and emphasis on violent jihad--laid the groundwork for terrorist groups around the world.


Princely giving. If the Saudis' efforts had been limited to pushing fundamentalism abroad, their work would have been cause for controversy. But some Saudi charities played a far more troubling role. U.S. officials now say that key charities became the pipelines of cash that helped transform ragtag bands of insurgents and jihadists into a sophisticated, interlocking movement with global ambitions. Many of those spreading the Wahhabist doctrine abroad, it turned out, were among the most radical believers in holy war, and they poured vast sums into the emerging al Qaeda network. Over the past decade, according to a 2002 report to the United Nations Security Council, al Qaeda and its fellow jihadists collected between $300 million and $500 million--most of it from Saudi charities and private donors.

edit on 28-6-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
Here is a look at the sophistication and beauty of a huge segment of humanity, and I only wish, that freedom would prevail, religions or spiritual pursuits seen as that which nourishes the soul, and gives respite, but not a way of life, custom, law, and institute for justice. That their culture can be appreciated by the world, their music, which is beautiful, dance, (I love belly dancing), much the way, Greece, has its own culture, Italy, Portugal. Why is it that we are living in a world with so much fascism? And why assume there are not large numbers aware, who can't change things that the bloodlines dictate, anymore than we seem to be able to affect our leaders here?


There is plenty of facism in the Islamic world. Islam is meant to work as a socio-political system, not simply as a religion. The truth is that the majority of Muslims would want Islam embedded within an authoritarian type of government. And that's pretty much what you will see in most Islamic countries. Western women are not safe to go about in these nations because of how they are viewed by Muslim men.
Consider that in some Islamic nations women are forbidden to go outside without a male escort or without a hijab/burka, they're no more than second-class citizens. I've been told numerous times from people who have lived and traveled there that it is not a place they would want to live because their customs are at odds with the ones of the west.

Wanting democracy is one thing...applying it is another...And quite frankly...I don't believe Muslims are up to it. If there are enough Muslims, they would not allow it because it gives too many freedoms and freedoms that may go against the rules of the Quran.



Society, culture, humanity is the most fascinating study there is, lands and people.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)


No it's not...it's redundant, stupid...and very predictable...I find cornflakes more fascinating than that.
edit on 28-6-2011 by laiguana because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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double post
edit on 28-6-2011 by laiguana because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by laiguana
 


There is no study in existence more important than lands and people, understanding others, walking in their shoes. I spent my entire childhood doing this, and felt so shut off from others, around the globe. I'm even a cosmic lands and people, person. Sociology would be my chosen role if I was ET.





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