What muslims really think about Terrorism, Democracy and the West

Until the last graph, Lebanon and Turkey really stood out for me,(figures alone) very interesting stats.
Something we don’t often get exposed to really, differing opinions of ‘every day’ nationalities, elsewhere and not within our own normal personal zones.

Thanks to the OP for bringing it to our attention. S&F

The last one though causes concern only because of ‘NET often/sometimes’ being displayed, but seriously what happened to negotiation?
They do seem like a child sometimes having a tantrum. When you over-react no-one listens, if you state your case calmly, in a perfect world you should be heard.

Yeah yeah! I know! Please don’t bother, I’ve slapped myself.

Perhaps they are sick of NOT being heard above the din of a minority who make them look bad, it could also be that they all are a product of their environment, violence and retaliation seems somewhat ingrained to us who know no better.

My children for example, can be arrogant (I like to call it confidence in the face of adversity AKA ingrained), a skill I think they learnt from me, (as someone else kindly noted on another thread) I am not insulted, I can recognise truth.
Perhaps it IS true.

Maybe the skill is letting the ‘fence sitters’ of other nations be respectfully heard, then change eventually is sure to happen.

Who was it said ‘If you change nothing, then nothing changes?’

As always I have only read OP’s post….sorry

Nah! I'm not sorry


Peace

reply to post by Skyfloating


Your post is completely non-sense. Do you disagree with anything I said or not?

If you disagree with anything I said, then please specify, and tell us why you disagree.

Snip From a Song

"They say America, love it or leave it
well, I loved it, and it left me"

Originally posted by confreak
Do you disagree with anything I said or not?

I disagree with the idea that Osamas speeches reflect the true nature of the west.

reply to post by AussieAmandaC


Thanks for posting something that is not beset by political ideology. I see what you are saying with the tantrum thing. Its probably those who are NOT getting the attention they want that start blowing things up. Its those we need to zoom in on.

reply to post by Skyfloating


And yet Osama's family has much more connections with US elites than you could ever have. I'm sure he would have a much better understanding of US policy than you.

Maybe we should discuss some of his claims, luckily I have a thread just for that, called "Osama is right, you are wrong".

Originally posted by old_god
Haha, note quite

That quote you just pulled out, refers specifically to Hypocrites i.e. "Muslims who are hypocritical in their faith, saying but not doing..."

That was an example used in the early times because the so called believers were still practising their other pagan beliefs.

So you agree that according to the Muslim holy book Bukhari Hadith, Muhammad burnt people for not praying.

Your only bone of contention is that he only burnt 'hypocrites' (people forced to convert but who continued to worship their own gods)?

Your point is what exactly?


By the way, I asked one Muslim on this board who claimed to denounce violence, whether or not he denounced Muhammad for burning people for not praying.

The silence was deafening.

Thanks very much for this post, Sky. There's been so much fear mongering about Muslim terrorists and fanatics and fundamentalists... in the media and to a lesser degree, here on ATS, that the general public is quick to believe the propaganda that is skewed to vilification. The stats you provide show a different, more reasonable story.

Yes, there are fanatics that account for those numbers in the stats:

- Some motivated by ideology and religious fervor.
- Some motivated by personal anger: blow up my family with a drone missile and I'll come after you too.
- Some motivated by associative anger: invade our lands, steal our resources, prop up dictators who suffocate us, and I'll support those who are trying to change things.
- Some motivated by extreme frustration: corrupt "leaders" in cahoots w/foreign govts and corporations plunder our country and resources and keep our general population from educating, industrializing, advancing, and I'll act on my frustration...

The point is that not all of the above can be clearly attributed to being a Muslim. In my book, much is attributed to being a Human Being.

Mess with me, my family, my friends, my people and you'll get a reaction out of me. Mess with us over time, over decades, and you'll get an eventual eruption. Sounds Human to me. Go through history and find hundreds of examples throughout the world of people turning to acts of "terrorism" to kick out an invader or a dictator or change their lives for the better.

Look at Hamas and Hezbollah. What has been one of their greatest appeals? They were originally tolerated by the people as counters to the corrupt power structures that were in place. They were very clever in how they insinuated themselves into the lives of the populace. How? By providing services - food, education, security... when these were not otherwise assured. Yes, their agenda was/is fundamentalist, but a funny thing happens on the way to legitimacy. Go through history and find that many, if not most, of these initial "terrorist" groups become politicized along the way. For example, Nicaragua, Ireland, Israel.... They end up with a military wing of hotheads (not much different than some hawks in this country who love to start wars, and blow people and places up), and a diplomatic wing of more moderate elements.

Yesterday I received the SPLC Report (Southern Poverty Law Center) in the mail. Here's a headline for you:
"SPLC Exposes DHS Decision to Dismantle Domestic Terror Unit, Urges Reassessment." Why was it dismantled? Because in 2009, DHS had issued a report titled: "Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment" The report was intended for law enforcement only, but it was leaked, and conservative columnists and groups attacked it as Obama's "hit job" on conservatives, painting them as potential domestic terrorists... This DHS unit that investigated non-Islamic domestic terrorism was gutted due to the backlash from the onslaught of conservative criticism.

The reason I include the reference to the SPLC article is because the report above notes the "economic" and "political" climates as fuel for radicalization. As with Islam, some religious fervor can be added to that radicalization with extreme Christian nut cases, but not having the means of providing for your family sure does have a strong influence.

Cause and effect: when people are marginalized and in dire economic straights, they are more prone to turning to more extreme views than they otherwise would if they were employed, able to provide for their families, able to be validated as "somebody." Add to the mix: foreign countries and corporations propping up the bastards that allow your lands and resources to be occupied and pillaged, and you have one hell of a volatile situation, as per the Middle East.

Muslims are savages. It doesn't matter what country they live in. Islam is a barbaric religion followed by violent people incapable of behaving in a civilized manner. This is why pretty much every predominately Islamic country is a complete wasteland.

reply to post by dietsamcola


Now, you can substitute the name of any of the three major religions in for the word 'Muslim', and you have an idea why people are steadily dying on our planet for a being they consider worthy of the ultimate praise.

All guilty.

reply to post by phatpackage

I disagree.
The enemy is fundamentalist crazies in ALL CULTURES. Islam as well as Christianity. After all, Bush waged several wars that killed hundreds of thousands and poisoned a few countries with depleted uranium.
He is a fundamentalist Christian, and allied to the ilk of Rove.
In my opinion, Theocratic crazies in Islamic countries are dangerous. Sure But so is the fundamentalist crazies in America and for that matter, aggressive nationalists in Israel.
They all share a common belief:
My kind is better than yours, and we will kill all those that oppose.
No matter that originally the Jewish faith, the Christian faith as well as normal Muslim faith told people to be peaceful and love their neighbor etc.
The Old Testament which all three Abrahamic religions embrace is very clear on this. God say: Do not kill.

Do extremists in the West, in Islam or in Judaism fulfill this adage? Certainly not. They still regard themselves as truly religious.
Obviously, they are possessed.

reply to post by ollncasino


You have no knowledge of the history of the Hadith.

The Hadith are fabrications written over 200 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad through a system of Chinese Whispers.

If Muhammad wanted to burn people up he would have included that in the main book you people claim he doctored and is proven to be unchanged to this day: that is the Quran.

Stop attributing lies and nonsense to Prophets of before.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I had a hard time understanding what the box that read 'Struggle Between Modernizers and Funalmentalists' was trying to say. It was a bit confusing.....was it trying to say which side they took?....what was 'See Struggle' meaning? Is that supposed to be the ones on the fence between the two? That's an odd way of stating it....I can 'See the Struggle'...but that doesn't have anything to do with which side I'd support.....Hmmmm is there something obvious I'm missing here?

reply to post by jimnuggits


This is the type of apologetic attitude that baffles me. Really, can I substitute any three major religions in place of islam?

How many Christians are killing in the name of god on a daily/weekly/yearly basis? The last abortion clinic bombing I can remember was two years ago. What percent of Christians do you think approved of that bombing? I'm guessing alot less than the 25% of Muslims in this survey who support suicide bombings..

How many news stories do you read about radical Mormons killing non believers?

How many groups are there devoted to killing in the name of Budha?

When's the last time a radical Hindu group kidnapped and beheaded someone?

How many holy wars are going on of significant size and support that don't involve islam?

A deranged lone wolf can draw inspiration from anything. There will always be mentally ill people killing for the sake of religion. But killing in the name of Islam is part of the culture. Even those you wouldn't consider extremist condone it to some degree.

You can accept this or you can continue to live in your fantasy world.

reply to post by dietsamcola

How many are killed by non-Muslim people daily?
Well, think about Afghanistan and Iraq. Both of those wars stated as false allegations made by Fundamentalist Christians and supported by Fundamentalist Jews.
The latter kill and Arabs in Gaza and other places, including committing terrorist actions against Islamic countries, such as the killing of their nuclear scientists.
It is their faith in misplaced religious mythologies, such as the Armageddon that allows this. Bush himself admitted to a French journalist he followed the dicates of God. How different is that from a terrorist blowing up a busload of Israelis on the command of Allah?
On top of that, we have unholy alliances with despicable third-worlds dictators. The hunger for oil goes hand in hand with Fundamentalist lies about the supposed military victories of Israel - after which all Jews are supposed to spontaneously convert to a brand of American TV evangelism. (Good luck with that.)
The comparison is feeble at best.
On top of that, Western democracies supply arms for the deadliest carnages in Africa, say the Congo where millions were killed. Supposedly for their own good.
At least the person who blows himself up is considered a hero - just like people in the West used to be when they sacrificed their lives for the good of their countries. We just consider them criminals because our system of jsutice is seriously warped.
Remove Theocracy and greed and you will have a free world where it is not the brutality of crazies that wins all the time.
Why is state terror different from the same perpetuated by individuals misled by equally fanatical priests?
The numbers pale in comparison - in and around Israel, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.
Unjust wars fought nd perpetrated for profit and sold to the masses by religious propaganda ARE acts of terrorism, especially when they involve civilians. And they do.
You should look at the malformed babies born after our DU weapons and low-level nukes contaminated the land.
Agent Orange - was that not state-sponsored terrorism? Clearly not an honest man-to-man combat, if you ask me.

Originally posted by dietsamcola
Muslims are savages. It doesn't matter what country they live in. Islam is a barbaric religion followed by violent people incapable of behaving in a civilized manner. This is why pretty much every predominately Islamic country is a complete wasteland.

Wow, no prejudice there at all... Would you also say that Gypsies all steal or that Jews control the world?

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
That's the second time you have claimed similar stats are present without providing a link to said stats....

Where are those links to those similar statistics sky?

Peace

Originally posted by Maslo
There are hundreds of millions of violent extremist muslims in the world.

There are also hundreds of millions of peaceful ones, but that is not sufficient to change the image when the extremism is so high.

I have nothing against peaceful muslims, but as long as things are what they are, they will be approached with caution and distrust, as potential members of possibly the most violent cult on the planet.

There is only one way to change this, and that is to get rid of the extremists. Empty words will not be sufficient.

Bull#. the population of extremists in the muslim world is so miniscule it relates to your pubic hair.

Sorry didn't mean to be rude, im having a tough day.

peace

So called 'muslim extremists' have a long way to go until they reach the level of USA bombs and occupation of terror.

Last I checked, USA did 911 themselves, blamed it on the 'gook' and killed MILLIONS based on a lie.

Muslim extremists are not the problem USA is. If anything, those Muslims should indeed kick the back side of USA military.

Red Indians, Black Slaves, Japs, Gooks, Muzzies [all trademark brands for gaining money and power].

USA is the biggest terrorist mass murderer in the world and nonsense like Skyfloating stats will never change that fact.

if you look at Skyfloating's previous threads and postings he is obviously a hate-monger [probably zionist] with an obvious pattern of spreading hate against Muslims to stir up a dumb down world in order to mass murder and persecute.

That is why he has been promoted to 'moderator' status which goes to show what ATS really stands for and what people they like to see.

reply to post by ShadowZion


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c68b6847a3f9.jpg[/atsimg]

Multiply the population of these states by the percentages and you will get the number of extremists. Doesnt seem tiny to me at all.