What muslims really think about Terrorism, Democracy and the West

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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:40 AM
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Beyond the political propaganda that says "muslims are terrorists" on the one side and "there are no muslim terrorists, America/Israel are the terrorists" on the other side, there is the truth. What follows are research and polls taken from PEW Research Center to which I will add some commentary.

The question often overlooked is "just how many Moderates vs. Fanatics are there?" This thread seeks to answer that question. The results of these polls pretty much reflect what I myself have heard in conversation with muslims.

Starting out with some good news (from the wests perspective) is that muslims seem to be happy with democratic voting, with the exception of Pakistan (and probably Afghanistan too, which was not inlcuded in the polling):



Perhaps not good news (from the Wests perpsective) is that muslims take a different view on what the majority in the West consider Terrorist Organizations. Typically muslims in Turkey, being the most western-ized have the most negative view of Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah whereas Jordan, being in the line of fire has many supporters of these Movements:



The following image shows how the approval rates for Osama Bin Laden have plummeted amongst muslims in the last decade:



This statistic shows a divide between "Modernizers" and "Fundamentalists".



This one again displays how Turkey and Lebanon are western-ized whereas Pakistan is not. It would have been interesting to include Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan in this research. When you follow the link you can also see muslim views on stoning people to death, which show a similar disparity between the different countries.



Approval of suicide bombing is higher than I expected it to be, but lower than the "muslims are terrorists" crowd claims:



Conclusion:

There are many different viewpoints among muslims. One cannot generalize about the position of "a muslim" because every country and sectarian movement has different views on what is right. We in the west must learn to differentiate and discern between these differences and learn who is our friend and who wishes us harm. This differentiation can only occur if we move beyond partisan ideologies and look at the facts and listen to the voices of the Mideast. Countries like Turkey, that know both western and muslim thought look like they'd be in a good position to mediate. As the world draws closer together, there will certainly be clashes of culture here and there and by knowing who is who and what is what we may not be able to avoid those clashes but reduce their negative impact.

Very much looking forward to the Discussion on this.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Those stats are a real worry for Australia with Indonesia right on our doorstep. For those scum who support terrorist groups well "start it" and you will pay. Otherwise leave us alone and don't despise us because we don't believe in the fake God Allah! For the moderates in Indonesia I have nothing but extreme sympathy for the plight and stigma these terrorist supporters have placed on their country! At least the government as whole appears civilised in their views. That is probably what is holding the thing together. I was recently pleased to hear the terrorist Bashir is now in jail! gee I wish he was executed for his role in the Bali bombing! He sure as hell deserved it!

I once heard a quote "Not all Muslims are terrorists but all the terrorists are Muslims" I would say I have to disagree 100%! Northern Irish Nationalists are right up there with the Muslim extremists as being terrorists! No doubt about it! I hope all their supporters rot!

edit on 28-6-2011 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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And what about muslims in America?

People always conveniently leave us out of the discussion because the majority of us here denounce terrorism and violence of any kind.


Spoken by a muslim.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
And what about muslims in America?

People always conveniently leave us out of the discussion because the majority of us here denounce terrorism and violence of any kind.


Spoken by a muslim.


Im not conventiently leaving anything out. Id have loved to see the stats on muslims living in the West as well as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, among others.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I'm sorry Sky,

But this:

There are many different viewpoints among muslims. One cannot generalize about the position of "a muslim" because every country and sectarian movement has different views on what is right.
in combination with all your statistics from the PEW Research Center (an American think tank organization based in Washington, D.C.) makes me want to question the results....

Did they ask all the "Muslims"? Or just the one's willing to provide an American organization with information?

the only thing this thread does is remind me of a Lewis Carol quote:"


If you want to inspire confidence, give plenty of statistics. It does not matter that they should be accurate, or even intelligible, as long as there is enough of them.


I'm sorry, I never liked/trust statistics!!

Peace



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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In my opinion people are people all over the world.. Mostly just working, loving their families and trying to enjoy their lives..

The Extremists have certainly been able to polarize a segment of Western Society but I fear that segment is mostly made up of those that have never traveled and are unfamiliar and intolerant of other cultures..

The human war is with extremists, not any one ideology

At least in my opinion

Great Thread and the Stats are very revealing; in my opinion that is..

Semper



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
And what about muslims in America?

People always conveniently leave us out of the discussion because the majority of us here denounce terrorism and violence of any kind.


Spoken by a muslim.


As long as you denounce the terrorist groups mentioned in the OP, denounce suicide bombings as wrong in any circumstance and respect others right to practice whatever fake religion they are into I care not what religion you practice and would strongly condemn any wrongful assumptions on you! it just sounds like you have been the victim of wrongful discrimination.

What many on ATS don't understand is the "West", Israel or Moderate Muslims are not the real enemy here. The enemy is "Extreme" Islam"! They can sugar coat it and argue all they want but deep down they know the truth! These extremists hate everyone who does not believe what they believe in! period. They try to justify the extremist Muslim hatred and disgusting terrorist actions with "oh its the US foreign policy" or "israel ..... ra ra ra ra ra". Total rubbish.If those things had never happened they would still hate us. Even the moderate Muslims are a form of infidel to them!

To all the ATS terrorist sympathisers, go live in these countries and see how much these extremists love you! Go on join the enemy with the hatred they started!
edit on 28-6-2011 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by operation mindcrime


I'm sorry, I never liked/trust statistics!!

Peace


The muslim countries I have been to personally are Egypt, Turkey, Palestinian Territories, Qatar. The stats pretty much reflect what I heard from the people which is why I felt pretty confident posting them. You talk to the people on the streets those are pretty much the voices you get.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
And what about muslims in America?

People always conveniently leave us out of the discussion because the majority of us here denounce terrorism and violence of any kind.


Spoken by a muslim.


Im not conventiently leaving anything out. Id have loved to see the stats on muslims living in the West as well as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, among others.


Sorry if you felt like that was directed at YOU, because I know you didn't develop those graphs. I'm just trying to figure out why western muslims were left out.

I think people care more about what muslims in the USA and the UK think about terrorism than what Turkish muslims think about it. Not to mention, whether we like it or not, eastern muslims see it from a totally different perspective.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Im not conventiently leaving anything out. Id have loved to see the stats on muslims living in the West...




Well, there is a survey that was 'released' into the wild by wikileaks from a diplomatic cable.

The media reporting of it...
1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam and 40% want Sharia law
DailyMail

The actual cable can be found here...
CableViewer


edit on 28-6-2011 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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The Islamic world has no interest in adopting the institutions devised by Western Civilization. The only goal of the Islamic Empire is to crush Western Civilization, and, indeed, any non-muslim civilization, and replace is with sharia law and Islamic culture.

No free man of the West would give audience to what muslims think of the Light of Greece.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Very interesting statistics but they are just statistics and are not representative of all Muslims or even the entire population of the states surveyed. For example I am sure these results would be very different if the tribal regions of Pakistan were questioned as opposed to more urban areas around Islamabad. I am also rather perplexed as to why other states such as Yemen, Syria, UAE and Saudi Arabia are not included nor are those from outside the Middle East, for me this shows that this survey does not provide a full picture.

I am really quite surprised at how narrow these questions are such as the one regarding which terrorist group do you favour, Hamas, Hezbollah or Al’Qa’ida? If you included more of the domestic groups in that question the results would be very different for instance if boko Haram you would probably notice a difference in the results for Nigeria. Similarly there would be a difference in the results for Indonesia if the group Jemaah Islamiyah was included or if the Taliban was present for Pakistan. It’s also worth pointing out that saying which is your favourite does not leave any room for expressing a hate for all of these groups. I basically don’t like that entire group of statistics it’s far too narrow.

Another question that I can’t say I am happy with is asking whether the individual identifies with moderates or fundamentalists. The term “fundamentalist” tends to have negative connotations and for that reason many might want to declare themselves moderate despite appearing to us to be fundamentalists. Then again there could be others who do not think their beliefs should be categorised as being moderate or fundamentalist for their beliefs just are.

The one set of statistics in this thread that I do like is concerning approval rates for suicide bombings. On the whole however, I don’t really think much of these statistics.
edit on 28-6-2011 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by mike_trivisonno
 


You got it 100% These scum want to wipe us out big time! They even want the Moderate peace loving Muslims as well (yes there are millions of them!). Seems there is a lot of them who feel this way if the OP's stats are anything to go by! They talk talk talk but will never defeat our way of life! Come on ATS "Extremist Muslim terrorist" supporters debunk that!
edit on 28-6-2011 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
The muslim countries I have been to personally are Egypt, Turkey, Palestinian Territories, Qatar. The stats pretty much reflect what I heard from the people which is why I felt pretty confident posting them. You talk to the people on the streets those are pretty much the voices you get.


It could also mean that you spoke to the same "people on the street" as the PEW Research Center....



Peace



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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too bad saudi arabia wahhabis are not included, because they support terrorism 100%.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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There sure are a lot who make generalizations against those in Islam countries. For those who participated and gave extreme opinions, I can only feel sorry for the heavy programming they are under. Their light and sense of equality is being distorted and bent out of shape by fascist, theocracies and sharia regimes.

I wish Iran had been included, for many there are not happy with their government.


ROSES OF IRAN



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by mike_trivisonno
 


You got it 100% These scum want to wipe us out big time! They even want the Moderate peace loving Muslims as well (yes there are millions of them!). Seems there is a lot of them who feel this way if the OP's stats are anything to go by! They talk talk talk but will never defeat our way of life! Come on ATS "Extremist Muslim terrorist" supporters debunk that!
edit on 28-6-2011 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)


ATS has supporters of murderers of the innocent? Or are you just running your mouth?
Oh and a statistic, is only based off of a controlled number of people interviewed. So yea, it suuuure is plenty of them extremists!!! That's why there's MILLIONS of deaths every month at the hands of suicide bombers!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 




I wish Iran had been included, for many there are not happy with their government.


Without doubt Iran's statistics would have added massive input into the debate. I feel entirely sorry for those in Iran who see the real light! But those extremist pieces of trash who keep that filthy disgusting sad excuse for a human being (the Ayatollah) in power are going to get them all killed! However I can see that any results to the poll would be distorted because that terrorist has the people living fear and honesty goes out the door in the name of survival. Much like their farce called an election bahahahahahah! Those Iranian leaders really are a disgrace and doing a large number of the Iranian people a disgrace on the international stage!

Religion should be a personal thing and left out of government entirely. Many morons in Iran just don't see that that! Allah bahahahahahah!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by operation mindcrime
 


I think the statistics are pretty accurate. Being one of the "boots on the ground" in the ME right now, and twice before this, I've come to see a lot of different viewpoints in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I think someone mentioned the terrorists in the IRA (The Irish ones, not the guys who just want to be able to own a gun). There's a bit of a stretch with that, seeing as to where there's no pan-Irish movement or any viewpoint from them that wants to destroy an entire civilization off the face of the Earth. I think they just took a simple hyperbolic statement a bit too far.

Now, very rarely in any of my deployments have we picked up a detainee from the local area. They are "almost" always imported from places around the world like Syria or Saudi Arabia. Now, these guys are not your run of the mill "Quran Thumper." These guys are very well trained, some of them decently educated, and all of them can justify their actions chapter and verse from the Quran. For me, Islam is a heresy, but that is not something I discuss with the locals I work with. The vast majority of these people don't really care what kind of government they have (at least in Afghanistan, Iraqis seem much more politically active as a collective, although all their party choices are communst spinoffs), they just want to grow their crops. I have, in both countries, seen little girls get whacked pretty hard upside their head for looking out windows as we walked by because we were males, so there's definitely a bit of backwardness going on there. In private conversations I've had, many of the people in both countries really do want to be somewhat Westernized, however, there is still a great deal of fear and supersitition that prevents them from moving up.

To demonstrate this: I had one Afghani who came to me with a medical problem. He stated that "he had no blood in his veins." I asked the Interpreter to re-translate that, and he confirmed that the patient honestly thought he had no blood at all. He did not think he had low blood-pressure, high blood-pressure, he thought he had the absence thereof. We gave him Oral Rehydration Salt and red Gatorade and he had never been happier in his life.

I think the Middle East could definitely benefit from Westernization, but this is going to take at least a generation or two. They must get rid of collective anxiety over perceived threats, get away from superstition, and then consider how much more efficiently they can use the resources they have at their disposal.

I must apologize if I've gone off on any tangents, I still need to figure out how to quote things so I can remember what all I planned to post in the first place, lol.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 




ATS has supporters of murderers of the innocent?


yeah there are lots of them! We have one ATS member from Australia who defends these terrorists groups mentioned in the OP to the death! Something that is not supported by the general Australian population.



Or are you just running your mouth?

You seem to be doing a superior job of that bahahahahah. Remember you started the personal insults




That's why there's MILLIONS of deaths every month at the hands of suicide bombers!


You said millions not me. Suicide bombings are cowardly and deplorable and not acceptable in any circumstances. Never ever. Cowards!. Sounds like you support suicide bombings. is that true?





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