The Gog/Magog War Prophesied In Ezekiel 38-39 Is Beginning

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Jepic
Religion won't make it beyond earth if we ever make it beyond earth. I guarantee you that.

UNLESS, there's a galactic empire.

in which case, who knows!
i read a book called GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN, by Finis Jennings Dake. he wrote it like one year after roswell (in the 1940s). In it, he claims the planet is ancient, and that before the human dispensation on earth, the planet belonged to a race of angels (a prior creation). the seraph, to be specific. they grew technologically, and went out to colonize the other planets and moons in our solar system and beyond. there was a galactic war, because apparently, the galactic government in place didn't like what the earth seraph were doing, and a space war worthy of the scifi channel, broke out. kinda makes ya wonder about george lucas, doesn't it? anyway, dake claims the seraph of earth lost the war, and the ice age was the result, and that they were the "fallen angels" as the text calls them.

so don't be so sure that what's in that book isn't also going on out there in the great beyond we call outer space. lol

edit on 29-6-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

Well that sounds like a good enough book for me to check out. But there is one flaw within your argument.

They are angels which means they were religious by nature. We are humans, we come in all forms.

reply to post by undo


Ding ding round two.

For a writer you sure have a lack of aptitude in understanding the language you write in. Please, for the sake of humour, quote me specifically the parts of my earlier post where I state what you think I stated?

I never stated anywhere that "Christians" are the cause of death and strife, I stated "religion" is. Vast difference. Perhaps, you should take a deep breath, re-read what I wrote and then come to the conclusion that you may have had a little too much coffee this morning and jumped at my post because you thought you read something you didn't. See the real problem here is people, like you, who imagine things .. they then feel justified in going off half-cocked and spouting yet more hatred.

I urge you to read.. rather than write, because what you're writing to me right now is baseless.

Edit - Oh and to add. Atheistic governments? LOL. MMmhmm sure

T

reply to post by Skyfloating

Here's a little support for your OP from a non-christian and non-religious person. Thumbs up to explaining the religious background of current world events more deeply.

Actually, it's gotten beyond laughing at the OP, I feel sorry for him now.

People must learn and understand that world history is shaped by beliefs and spiritual factors or remain forever ignorant.

The world is shaped by ACTIONS. Not beliefs. That's gibberish. Beliefs can lead to actions yes, but, it depends on how many people are willing to take action on their beliefs. Seeing how we've got a majority of religious nut cases on this planet(nothing wrong with that, their way of dealing with depressions) of course their beliefs will come into reality, because the majority of the people on Earth are ACTING according to their belief(which of course, has been instilled within them by other humans).

The implication of of course, by the Abrahamic Religions, is that these events must come to pass. The ontological question that immediately arises is whether it is our duty to change prophecy and proceed in peace or fullfill prophecy and wage the final war and demarcation for good vs. evil.

It's not even a choice if you understand history and are a free thinker. Simple as. Therefore it is the duty of the free thinker to stop this non-sense in its tracks. We are therefore not changing prophecy(as they are really not prophecies at all) but we are preventing bloodshed and psychological disorders. We are preventing the crumbling down of structure. (And don't bring the; religion gives family structure - because that is some good ol' bullcrap)

Those who oppose you will suggest the former, the abrahamic tend to suggest the latter. What is your stance on this?

My stance on this is that I will perceive every believer in these self fulfilling prophecies to be enablers of murderers and I will refer to them as such and talk to them as such. There is nothing simpler. A hundred years ago we would not have been able to stop any of these wars being fought, but now that the people of this planet can communicate via the internet and share information, we have come to the pivotal point; Do we give up ancient beliefs that have obviously gone out of date and move on, or do we keep them - maybe polish them up some and stand still for a couple more centuries?

reply to post by Jepic


not if you realize that the old texts are historical in nature, and that the religious aspects of it are also historical in nature. i mean, at the very least you could acknowledge that these old texts show WHAT the people believed back then, which makes them useful anthropological history. even more interesting is when i find texts that suggest that as far back as the book of enoch (the one found with the dead sea scrolls), there's pretty shocking scientific evidence in them, as well. we just didn't recognize it 300 years ago, during the enlightenment because we didn't know anything about science at the time lol

reply to post by torqpoc

Edit - Oh and to add. Atheistic governments? LOL. MMmhmm sure

The religious persons argument. They will refer to Soviet and Communist(China) history.

Simply because these religious folk don't know what beliefs these "strange"(to them) places adhered to, it makes them atheists.

Easy huh

reply to post by torqpoc

'im sorry but I can't take anythign anybody religious comes out with.. religion = biggest cause of death on the planet, please wake up to yourself Sir.

there ya go. quoted ya. right up there ^
now i admit that you didn't say that person caused the problem but you did say, that you "can't take anything religious (?) comes out with" followed up by your reasoning which is, you think it's the biggest cause of death on the planet. did you mean to say religion or religious person? anybody can connect the simple dots in your thoughts there, even accusing me of being a problem because i offered a defense from that accusation. what? did you expect people to just sit here and let you take pot shots like ducks in a shooting gallery ?

reply to post by Zamini


karl marx actually thought starving the farmers to death was a good object lesson for the people, who were mostly catholic christians, because it would prove to them that god does not exist and therefore they should look to their government and fellow man for their hope. when prayer didn't solve their dilemma and some of them began to cannabalize one another for food, he felt as if he had gained a victory and a very powerful object lesson for the rest of the people to learn from. now i dunno how you could call that religious. do you know something i don't?

reply to post by undo

did you mean to say religion or religious person? anybody can connect the simple dots in your thoughts there, even accusing me of being a problem because i offered a defense from that accusation. what? did you expect people to just sit here and let you take pot shots like ducks in a shooting gallery ?

Star gates are not real. That's for one. Step out of your little fantasy world for a second.

Second, the only people taking pot shots at others are the religious folk in this thread as they pretend to have the all mighty God on their side, ie, the rest of us "simpletons" are going to hell anyways because we do not share their beliefs. We are wrong by default and no amount of information or reasoning can beat their perceived "trump card" - this makes ANY religious topic created on ATS a self-defeating topic, because there is no denying ignorance - only the reinforcing of ignorance.

Unless you are stupid enough not to be able to discern, because then, you're simply too dumb to understand anything and you will be tricked and deceived over and over and over and over again.

But hey, ATS is American and so they have to cater to the many religious nut cases in America - hey, I understand how capitalism works, do your thing ATS.

Quite frankly, I'm waiting for these kind of words or the jest of them: "Going to hell if you don't believe" to become death threats, legally speaking. It would be one awesome step towards moving forward and releasing some of that bottled up fear the lot of you carry.

reply to post by undo

karl marx actually thought starving the farmers to death was a good object lesson for the people, who were mostly catholic christians, because it would prove to them that god does not exist and therefore they should look to their government and fellow man for their hope. when prayer didn't solve their dilemma and some of them began to cannabalize one another for food, he felt as if he had gained a victory and a very powerful object lesson for the rest of the people to learn from. now i dunno how you could call that religious. do you know something i don't?

Is that some more anti-communist fear mongering gibberish or are you going to share sources with us?

Regardless;

Karl Marx ain't got # on the conquistadors, crusaders, colonialists, Islamic conquest etc. etc.

reply to post by Zamini


have i called you stupid even once? or ignorant? have i claimed that you were going to hell? (i don't even believe hell is a firey place, but i do believe it's .......wait for it...wait for it......a star gate/wormhole). and i'm not basing this theory on just ancient texts, but on everything related to the subject, including artifacts, artworks, modern science, etc. it's my pet theory.

have i said you're the trouble with the planet? what i said was, the problem is HUMAN and it relies on large groups of people all wanting to force their world view on others, and that includes by default, atheism as well.

Originally posted by Zamini
The world is shaped by ACTIONS. Not beliefs. That's gibberish.

ALL Actions are based on what a person thinks, believes and feels (pain-avoidance / pleasure-gain). Enough said.

reply to post by Zamini


stalin killed something like 50,000,000 of his own people, and that was AFTER marx killed some 30,000,000 farmers (and the untold numbers that got shipped off to work in slave labor camps where they died of malnutrition and no medical care). and that's just the soviet union. yeah they finally got around to releasing the files on stalin and marx.
pretty shocking. they make hitler look like a kid playing with toy soldiers. and he was bad enough. world war 2 was some of the worst atrocities in human history, most of them related to thinking of humans as animals capable of being programmed to behave on command like trained monkeys.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I see you choose to read one line out of a wall of text. How honest and unbiased.

Actions are sometimes based on beliefs. You cannot say everything that happens happens because of believing, saying these things equates to using underhand religious arguments.

People are MADE to believe something, while the group steering these peoples beliefs has an entirely different belief.

Certain people want some things done, so, they make other people believe something in order for these other people to do the bidding of the "certain people".

No? Still no comprende?

reply to post by undo


You should research the Zyklon B - pope connection in WW2.

(by 30,000,000 farmers i mean he starved to death their entire families, children, infants, old people, women, didn't matter because he was determined to drive the people away from their choice of worship from an invisible "fictitious being" to real beings in government and he used the farmers and their families as the object lesson. photos of emaciated people lying around, are available. looks just like hitler's concentration camps, except he starved them to death in their own homes.)

Someone commented earlier on a point which I think is very important. The bible is made up of scripts that were copies. The accuracy of these scripts we know not. What we do know is that the book we have today has been tweeked no end of times and how this effects the prophesies who knows.

Part of the tweeking has left us with an 'Abramic' religion that is all about, a monotheisic God who has a schizophrenic personality. You have the Jewish God YHWH who is jealous and viscous and who demands his followers take by any means what he wants. He also exhibits a state of paranoia as can be seen in the first two of his commandments and which would if viewed today on someone have them committed. He is obsessive about creating laws some the punishment for breaking is death. He has no mercy on anyone or people who he percieves as an opponent and who orders the death of whole townships. He is vengefu, a warmonger and hates.

You have the Other God, the Canaanite El, known as the 'Father of the Gods' who Christ refers to when he says "My Father". This God loves even to the point of counting every hair on our heads. Christ did not want to break the old laws but he emphasized only two laws Love God and Love your neighbour. Someone is clearly lying or is it time to face biblical problems head on? I suspect this is why there are such divisions within the biblical world and why we have trouble identifying which phophesy relates to which God's intention.

You also have two religious books The Torah and the Takmud not only contradicting each other completely on usery which the Torah says God hates usery a number of times. Then you have the Rabbinical Talmud which clearly encourages and instructs how to fraud people by usery. There are two odd 'jokes' at the beginning of some versions of the Talmud which are probably quite startling to many people. 'God argued with the Rabbi and the Rabbi won' and 'Even God stands when he reads the Talmud'

Bearing in mind there is a possibility that we have such contradictions its had to know which prophet held what view of which God.

There is also the changeover from paganism a religion which people mostly celebrated to the subjective and suffering monotheism. which I suspect plays more of a part in the psychology of the early scribes and the scripts the that make up the bible .

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by undo

 

You should research the Zyklon B - pope connection in WW2.

i have. i'm not saying the power structures of the planet are innocent, i'm just pointing out that when it comes to world views forcing their weight around when in the majority, atheists are just as likely to be unreasonable as anyone else. there literally is no high road o this subject.

reply to post by undo


And what did the farmers do? Did they rebel? No they prayed to their God. They were deceived.

Imagine that, 30 million farmers going to Marx's home for a little meet-up instead of letting themselves starve to death and hoping for that man in the clouds to save them. I bet this was one of Marx's fears. They should have just gone after Marx, and I'm sure they would have were the internet/free information available at the time.

reply to post by undo


Weee it continues. Ding ding round three.

My first paragraph contains this sentence:
The crux of the problems on our planet are due to religion, or specifically the varying religions which have drone like subjects who spout hatred and fear and wish nothing else than to destroy the other faction. I am not saying you are one of those, but you are as misguided as any other.

The quote you picked is actually missing one word, but hey it doesn't matter:
'im sorry but I can't take anythign anybody religious comes out with.. religion = biggest cause of death on the planet, please wake up to yourself Sir.

It should read: comes out with "seriously"

Now, you are assuming. You do know the idiom about assumption right? Connecting the dots is part and parcel of the problem here, because YOU are connecting the dots as YOU see fit. You're assuming I am attacking an individual, when in fact i'm attacking an institution, that being religion. Which, I am again sorry to say is historically, and factually (not like your assumption that the Bible is a depiction of historical fact, which it isn't and has been proved time and again is not possible to be considered historical fact) one of the biggest causes of loss of life on the planet to date. I never said that because this individual or any other individual is religious, then they are automatically killers. I did say outright that being religious puts them at a disadvantage, in my eyes, due to the historical facts about what their current religion is an extension of.

Again, as a writer, you seem to lack the base understanding of the difference between words here, you're putting words in my mouth making out that I am attacking the OP, which I wasn't and actually added in my opening paragraph in case offense was taken by that individual. If offense is taken by the vast majority of "religious" people I am not going to apologise for the fact that their religion has caused mass murder in the name of their God. It is up to the heads of those same religions to apologise, not I.

Now to make it absolutely crystal clear for you. Religion IS the biggest cause of death on the planet aside from plagues, famines, and natural disasters. Those people who carried out murder in their beliefs, based on the religion they followed would be, by the definition of the English word, religious.

Now onto accusation. My accusing you of being part of the problem is simply based on the fact that you assumed something non factual, then spouted at me what you considered a defense of that incorrect thought. So my accusing you of doing what you actually did do, is .. well.. right!

Is there anything else you'd like to discuss here?

T