Atheists, be honest. We know it, you know it.

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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
Out of all those..

Which ones teach that there is no one good, not even one?
Which ones have accurate, historical information?
Which ones can be proven to be legitimate with 'science', today?
Which ones offer a person relationship with their deities?
Which ones teach to love their fellow man, and not to kill them because of their beliefs?
Which ones prophecy of future events, especially ones that have already come true, and can be proven?
Which ones have zero flaws or contradictions in their respected, 'holy books'?

You're list will get short, very, very fast, and that isn't the half of it.


if you are angling at christianity - sol invictus.....

fail

seek the one true Elohim and live

K.I.S.S.

go Abraham go!




posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by gnosticquasar

1. How does that prove anything about Christianity's veracity?
2. Like bats being birds? lol
3. See answer to #2.
4. To me, that's a strike against Christianity. Why would a god want a personal relationship with mortals?
5. A lot do, actually.
6. The prophecies that I've seen used to prove the Bible are always like Nostradamus quatrains. Always.
7. See answer to #2.


1. Because we all know it's true, no one is perfect. However, the point here was to remove the ones that claimed all men are good, or at least, naturally good.
2. This is actually fairly simple, there are no historical inaccuracies, such as who was King at this time, or when a certain census was taken, etc.
3. Again, weeding out the ones such as Atlas holding up the Heavens.
4. Because He created them? That's like asking, "Why would a Father want a relationship with his children?"
5. Obviously, but a lot don't. Islam for one.
6. Such as the Destruction of Tyre?
7. I've yet to witness any in the Bible, which is why I stated early on why I focus on the Hebrew text.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by notalemming
reply to post by Lionhearte
 

dude if you can find a passage in there where it states it is evil to drink or smoke, you are reading a different version of that fairy tale book than the others out there who need a big imaginary friend in the clouds to help them deal with their day to day lives. the closest thing in the bible is the whole body is a temple line. jesus drank and miraculously made WINE from water... and then there is that whole all things are there to use except that one pesky tree that the woman couldn't keep her greedy fingers off of and now I'M a sinner because of something done 5000+years ago. dang your god sure got himself a temper there, huh? maybe he could use some anger management courses... but according to the bible, you can legally in his eyes rape your enemies wives and murder their children. as well as have sex with your daughters if their hubby don't live... sounds like every rednecks dream religion. wake up and understand that you have been duped by a group that is more interested in keeping their 10% flowing so they can squander it on buggering little boys and such. Or to stop that poor woman who was raped from getting that sinful abortion and "killing a child" that will forever remind her of the pain and trauma that she had to endure because your "god" said go forth and multiply (again) 5000+ years ago. what about the fact that most wars ever fought were over religion to see whos pecker was bigger. popes with daughters murder IN CHURCH HIERARCHY to get the way of whatever power-hungry sexually deviant big-wig happens to be doing the plotting... do you get the point yet? if this is the kind of stuff that our 'God' wants us to do, then we are better off cursing the name of Jehovah, Allah, or whatever crazy arsed thing you happen to follow, and striking out on our own as independent thinking people that everybody was born as and stop letting old repressed men in dresses and waving crosses in out faces and talking in tongues give you your sense of morality. thou shalt not steal, kill, rape, murder, and so many other things. these are just common things that every person on this earth should believe in as wrong things to do. what im saying is this GROW UP AND LET OTHERS HAVE THEIR OWN BELIEF SYSTEMS, even if that means the system is void of a fluffy bearded guy on a cloud. yours sounds just as ridiculous to me as im sure mine would to you. just grow the heck up brother.



have you read the scripture?

"not what goes into a man is evil, but that which comes out of his mouth" - matthew 15;11



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 





Its a long one but you should watch it as its very informative

but i will attempt to sum it

- no one agrees on when he was born, or where

- there is no historical records mentioning anyone by his name, and the Romans kept extensive records especially on those they executed

- matthew, mark, luke and john never wrote about him.. as a matter of fact no one did for 130 years until after he had supposedly died. Which is when they agreed that Jesus should be someone who lived so they stuck him in a time in the past to make him a historical figure so their religion would be easier to follow

- Jesus the name actually comes from several other religions long before he "lived" and the story of Jesus is almost word for word from Buddhist text

thats a very basic summerization, but watch the video to get the full effect



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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Massive wall of text! This almost deserves a new thread, but I'll bite.

Originally posted by notalemming
reply to post by Lionhearte
 

dude if you can find a passage in there where it states it is evil to drink or smoke,

I already said that the Bible says not to get drunk, obviously one drink won't damn you. The Bible also teaches to take care of your body, for it's the Temple of Christ. Of course, like I already said, my examples, were just examples.


you are reading a different version of that fairy tale book than the others out there who need a big imaginary friend in the clouds to help them deal with their day to day lives.


Symbolism.


and then there is that whole all things are there to use except that one pesky tree that the woman couldn't keep her greedy fingers off of and now I'M a sinner because of something done 5000+years ago. dang your god sure got himself a temper there, huh?

You miss the point of that completely. God could have said, 'Don't like the tree sap', and it would not have mattered. The point is, was that she disobeyed a command, and so did Adam. The 'curse', is merely the faults of them, that we would all be born naturally and inherently with sin.


but according to the bible, you can legally in his eyes rape your enemies wives and murder their children. as well as have sex with your daughters if their hubby don't live... sounds like every rednecks dream religion.

As for that first part, you definitely pulled that out of nowhere. That second part is pulled way out of context, as well. That third remark is just mean. Besides, I'm Russian.


wake up and understand that you have been duped by a group that is more interested in keeping their 10% flowing so they can squander it on buggering little boys and such.

Now I see that you really missed where I'm coming from. I don't believe in being forced to donate, nor do I believe that works get you to Heaven. You're completely arguing against the wrong points.


what about the fact that most wars ever fought were over religion to see whos pecker was bigger. popes with daughters murder IN CHURCH HIERARCHY to get the way of whatever power-hungry sexually deviant big-wig happens to be doing the plotting... do you get the point yet?


I love this claim, it's thrown around with never any support. Which wars? The ones where the Christians or Jews were being slaughtered by say, Muslims, and they finally said 'enough was enough' and retaliated?

Because, that's like, all of them.


if this is the kind of stuff that our 'God' wants us to do, then we are better off cursing the name of Jehovah, Allah, or whatever crazy arsed thing you happen to follow, and striking out on our own as independent thinking people that everybody was born as and stop letting old repressed men in dresses and waving crosses in out faces and talking in tongues give you your sense of morality.

Clearly I struck a chord somewhere, but you clearly don't understand where I'm coming from, and are basing your rant off generalizations and stereotypes.


thou shalt not steal, kill, rape, murder, and so many other things. these are just common things that every person on this earth should believe in as wrong things to do.
Of course, that should be obvious.


what im saying is this GROW UP AND LET OTHERS HAVE THEIR OWN BELIEF SYSTEMS
You think I'm trying to convert people to my faith? Incorrect, I would never attempt to do something so foolish. If you actually read the rest of my posts, you'll see I'm actually encouraging people to search for Truth, but with the right mindset.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by behindXtheXveil
reply to post by Lionhearte
 





Its a long one but you should watch it as its very informative

but i will attempt to sum it

- no one agrees on when he was born, or where

- there is no historical records mentioning anyone by his name, and the Romans kept extensive records especially on those they executed

- matthew, mark, luke and john never wrote about him.. as a matter of fact no one did for 130 years until after he had supposedly died. Which is when they agreed that Jesus should be someone who lived so they stuck him in a time in the past to make him a historical figure so their religion would be easier to follow

- Jesus the name actually comes from several other religions long before he "lived" and the story of Jesus is almost word for word from Buddhist text

thats a very basic summerization, but watch the video to get the full effect


I'll go ahead and give it a full watch, and would you prefer it if I gave my response in this thread, or in a private message?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by behindXtheXveil
 



your post is fine when speaking of Christianity - the religion Constantine appointed as being a cross between krishna and the greek/roman gods

Christianity is a waste of time religion

get a grip and study the one true YHWH instead of man made convenient religion

keep on seeking and you will find



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


My point is that, by the specific criteria that you set, the Bible doesn't measure up, either. Bat aren't birds, therefore it fails on the science bit.

As for the destruction of Tyre, that failed. Tyre wasn't completely destroyed for good, and it didn't fall to Nebuchadnezzar like Ezekiel predicted. Arguably, that failed. The ones that "can't be argued" are always like Nostradamus quatrains.

As for the Hebrew version of the Bible, how can that be? The New Testament was written in Greek and Aramaic.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


i appreciate your seeming willingness to give it a watch, and whichever way you decide to reply is fine by me



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by gnosticquasar
reply to post by Lionhearte
 


My point is that, by the specific criteria that you set, the Bible doesn't measure up, either. Bat aren't birds, therefore it fails on the science bit.

As for the destruction of Tyre, that failed. Tyre wasn't completely destroyed for good, and it didn't fall to Nebuchadnezzar like Ezekiel predicted. Arguably, that failed. The ones that "can't be argued" are always like Nostradamus quatrains.

As for the Hebrew version of the Bible, how can that be? The New Testament was written in Greek and Aramaic.


depends which version you subscibe to

and depends on how far you will be prepared to dig to find the truth

thanks to the last 3-400 years, it takes a bit of digging from where I sit

so dig!
edit on 28-6-2011 by Highlander64 because: oops



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by Highlander64
 


im not searching for a religion or answers as you have put it. I am fine with not having one and living life as a decent person because i choose to and not because im "told" to



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by behindXtheXveil
reply to post by Highlander64
 


im not searching for a religion or answers as you have put it. I am fine with not having one and living life as a decent person because i choose to and not because im "told" to


exactly and good for you

my only refrain and encouragement would be - seek life

your friend



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by morkington



And to keep this short, I mentioned this already, but I always believed judging is a righteous act, and being judged should NOT cause someone to be ashamed, unless they have something to be guilty of.

If I told a kid he was guilty of stealing my money, (which is the kind of judging the Bible says not to do), without proof, I'm in the wrong. On the kid's part, if he DID steal my money, he would feel resent and ashamed because he has been caught, even if he won't admit that he did it. If he didn't steal my money, what's there to be afraid of?

so which is it? is judging a righteous act as YOU claim, or is it something that you a very specifically told not to do? one particular line happens to read, "judge not, lest you be judged"

now on to the other part, if you have PROOF that said kid stole from you, then by definition it is not judging, it is an accusation. judging is the act of , well judging someone. they were not seemingly talking about the fine art of saying your guilty or innocent, but instead of making a decision in ones heart as to the rightness or wrongness of an act. some very bad things were done for the best of intentions. for example; "You stole from me kid, that is a very bad thing and you are going to hell for it to be raped by demons." (sorry cant get the rape scene outta my head, bunch o little immps standing around in lines their puds in hand waiting to be the next rapist. which is a thing that is commonly thought and taught. i have personally heard that line of reasoning from various chuchy people.) so now that you have an example of judging as was meant in the bible, (and yes i have read the book, not study mind you. dont have to as i have no end of others what it EXACTLY means. and their view, which is just them regurgitating others veiwpoints without any study on their own part. just meekly being told what to do.) now i respect your feeling that it is correct to you, but lets face the facts, i will not change my mind, like most others, just because YOU think that you have some new insite into this book that i havent already heard ad-nausium. you are just likr the other people who claim to be of different ways of thinking, more progressive and all.

the one guy (i cant remember his name) who mentioned your attitude in the way you posted this was 100% correct, you sounded antagonistic in your post. clean the language and syntax up and you will not sound like the prick you come off as. you speak of love? stop put5ting your JUDGMENTS out there. leave those for your god.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by Highlander64
 


Why would I dig when I'm not a Christian and have no desire to be a Christian? The Christian God roasts people for eternity for not believing in him, and they only get one chance. That's like a child saying a swear word and then you proceeding to rip his tongue out.

At the very least, this God has multiple personality disorder. He sends people to hell for not believing in Him after only one shot, but he sends somebody like Jesus, the ancient hippie, to die for everybody? That just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry that your chosen of the pantheon is one of the nuttier ones. Better luck in your next life.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
Massive wall of text! This almost deserves a new thread, but I'll bite.

Originally posted by notalemming
reply to post by Lionhearte
 

] You think I'm trying to convert people to my faith? Incorrect, I would never attempt to do something so foolish. If you actually read the rest of my posts, you'll see I'm actually encouraging people to search for Truth, but with the right mindset.

lie to others buddy. i read the whole post. when u start by saying that i am a lazy self indulgent person (the dont want to give up drinking and smoking cause it would be too much work part) and make it sound like the only way to be a better person is if you believe in mr. jesus himself.... well that sounds an awful lot like witnessing to me. you put this post up to get a reaction out of us like any other p.o.s troll, so i have been talking to you like one. if i wanted to be a christian brainwashed zombie i would still think those things are true... get a life bro. if your god does exist, do you honestly think he wants you to waste your life doing stupid pointless exercises like this, or do you think he wants you to live your life with joy in your heart and love in your heart? just some food for thought troll...



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by gnosticquasar
reply to post by Highlander64
 


Why would I dig when I'm not a Christian and have no desire to be a Christian? The Christian God roasts people for eternity for not believing in him, and they only get one chance. That's like a child saying a swear word and then you proceeding to rip his tongue out.

At the very least, this God has multiple personality disorder. He sends people to hell for not believing in Him after only one shot, but he sends somebody like Jesus, the ancient hippie, to die for everybody? That just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry that your chosen of the pantheon is one of the nuttier ones. Better luck in your next life.


who said anything about becoming a christian?
- please dont ever join THAT bunch...

your comments reinforce the abject stupidity of christianity and the papal (whore of babylon) system
FYI christianity is (despite the protestant reformation) a roman ad-hoc religion

I am not speaking of, nor would I recommend, religions such as christianity (the beast of revelation actually)

there is no Jesus, and the word god is pretty poor choice too ( 2 words I have eliminated from my vocabulary)

Jesus and god are religious substitutes for a real relationship with Elohim YHWH and His chosen, Yahu'shuah
- this my friend i can tell you I wish I realised 20 yrs ago

the religious christianity rabbit hole is deep
- lets skip that and go straight to the source - our creator, YHWH

"is not life more than the body"

"you are they who seek (religion) in teh scripture, thinking these have life, but it is these who bare witness to me, but you will not come to me that you would have LIFE"

keep digging, and dont stop thinking



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:31 AM
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I believe that something beyond our understanding is the cause for everything. An all powerful creator or something along those lines. I also believe that whatever IT is, it is not sentient. If it is, I don't think our worship of it makes any difference to it. Considering it created a Universe which is quite literally bigger than we can comprehend, full of things vastly more interesting than us, I don't see why it would even bother with us. The equivalent is an ant nest, on the other side of the planet, dedicating every Sunday to worship you. Why would you notice? And noticing, why would you care?

I believe in 'God,' I just don't believe in organised religion.

In discussions like this I'm always compelled to post this little beauty that Kurt Vonnegut wrote:


Oh Lord Most High, Creator of the Cosmos, Spinner of Galaxies, Soul of Electromagnetic Waves, Inhaler and Exhaler of Inconceivable Volumes of Vacuum, Spitter of Fire and Rock, Trifler with Millennia — what could we do for Thee that Thou couldst not do for Thyself one octillion times better? Nothing. What could we do or say that could possibly interest Thee? Nothing. Oh, Mankind, rejoice in the apathy of our Creator, for it makes us free and truthful and dignified at last. No longer can a fool point to a ridiculous accident of good luck and say, 'Somebody up there likes me.' And no longer can a tyrant say, 'God wants this or that to happen, and anyone who doesn't help this or that to happen is against God.' O Lord Most High, what a glorious weapon is Thy Apathy, for we have unsheathed it, have thrust and slashed mightily with it, and the claptrap that has so often enslaved us or driven us into the madhouse lies slain!"

It sums up my beliefs perfectly. If an omnipotent being wanted something done, what can we do to help get it done that said being couldn't do faster, better and to a more satisfying degree?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


Atheists need to realize that their non-belief in God is the same as believing that there is no God. Atheism is nothing more than another religion.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


You really need me to point this out for you? If god is supreme, and sees / knows everything, then surely god is quite able of acting on his / it's own behalf, he does not need to create someone to do it. I am not knocking you as an individual, or your faith. The pharisees hung jesus because they did not believe he came from god. I have researched the foundations of the bible, and followed the roots of how it came to be, perhaps you should do this instead of blindly following what you are told. then, you will understand what some people are saying to you instead of hitting back with some of these flawed points.

How many denominations of the christian church are we up to now? each 1 is by god and for god, each has the father , sun and holy ghost speaking for it, how can that be?

Historically in the o/t, god chose the jewish people, why am i pointing this out if you know the bible so well?
I am glad that you love all people, perhaps you could recognise other peoples religion then, because you sound like a biggot i.m.o. Really glad to see that you are sinless, i think you will be fine on your version of judgment day.

Please take the time to educate yourself on the basics, you may learn something.
That is about all the time i am prepared to waste on this pointless excersise, enjoy what you believe, but dont ram it down everyones throat as being the only way, there are other choices that were around way before the bible.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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Theres plenty of reasons why I don't believe in Christianity.

It's a global scam.
Why does the Vatican need to horde all those priceless pieces of art and information in their archives?
Why when they are so rich do they still ask for donations?
If they were so selfless surely they would use more of that money instead of having the pope live like a king?
How they handled the child abuse cases were disgusting.
I don't want to be part of a religion that uses fear mongering to convert people.
I don't like walking down the street and being harassed by people trying to convert me, calling me a sinner and that I'm going to hell.
Christianity doesn't respect other religions yet when it comes to respecting their views it seems to be their top priority.
I don't want to be part of a religion that surpresses knowledge, tries to disprove hard FACTS and try to dumb down their followers.

My 2 cents.





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