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New World Order, China, Chemtrails and Big Business.

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posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


Cloud seeding (for rain augmentation, which is what we are talking about here) is not geoengineering. Geoengineering alters the global climate for years. Cloud seeding alters the local weather for an hour or two.




posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by EyeDontKnow

I never said I agreed with EVERYTHING my gov't does. I never said that everything the gov't does is good. I am saying it is not all bad....far from it.
I was pointing out that your argument seemed to be biased that anything my gov't does is wrong, and deceitful.
I tried to get you to look at it from a balanced viewpoint.


I don't think everything the government does is wrong but the things it does wrong is harmful to millions of people. I think government officials and public servants' feet should always be held to the fire. This prevents any screw-ups.



You've listed what you think the US gov't has done wrong, but.......
Can you list any gov't institutions that are a benefit to society ?
Can you list any decisions made by the US gov't that improved life ?

No I can't. I am here posting the things the government does wrong not the good things the government does. The good things is what I would give kudos for but there is always room for improvement. But the things the government does wrong is longer than the things it does right. That is why I am here.



Sickness puts giant monetary strains on society. Sure, some companies profit on sickness treatments, but the healthier people are, the less the overall costs to the health-care system, hence, the overall budgets.

Cancer rates are on the decline, it's a fact.
www.cancer.org...@epidemiologysurveilance/documents/document/acspc-029814.pdf


That maybe so but that wouldn't justify putting crap into the atmosphere.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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Everyone who pays attentions knows global warming is a scam? Lol pay attention to what?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by Equinox99
 


Cloud seeding (for rain augmentation, which is what we are talking about here) is not geoengineering. Geoengineering alters the global climate for years. Cloud seeding alters the local weather for an hour or two.


Regardless if the words are broken down it forms the same meaning. Cloud ceding is throwing something at a lower atmosphere to make rain clouds. Geo-engineering is high altitudes to reflect some sunlight away from the Earth to make it cooler.

Either way you are throwing crap into the atmosphere. Both of them would be under chemtrails because what goes up must comedown.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
Regardless if the words are broken down it forms the same meaning.

No it doesn't.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Cloud ceding is throwing something at a lower atmosphere to make rain clouds.

No, cloud seeding makes precipitation come from already existing clouds, it doesn't "make" clouds.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Geo-engineering is high altitudes to reflect some sunlight away from the Earth to make it cooler.

Yes, that would be geo-engineering. But what you are describing isn't occuring.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Either way you are throwing crap into the atmosphere. Both of them would be under chemtrails because what goes up must comedown.

No, that is not consistent with the accepted definition of what a 'chemtrail' is.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 




The chemtrail conspiracy theory holds that some contrails are actually chemicals or biological agents deliberately sprayed at high altitudes for a purpose undisclosed to the general public.



The modern concept of Geoengineering (or Climate Engineering) is usually taken to mean proposals to deliberately manipulate the Earth's climate to counteract the effects of global warming from greenhouse gas emissions. ...



Cloud seeding, a form of weather modification, is the attempt to change the amount or type of precipitation that falls from clouds, by dispersing substances into the air that serve as cloud condensation or ice nuclei, which alter the microphysical processes within the cloud. ...


What do all those have in common? You are dropping substances into the atmosphere to modify the weather.

I am not too into chemtrails but people are quick to dismiss government experimenting in our atmosphere. Why is it so hard to believe that there could be experiments taking place in our atmosphere? Did the government not spray agent orange over people before during the war?

So why is it so hard to believe that the government could be experimenting in our atmosphere?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


There's a difference between climate and weather. Cloud seeding affects the weather. Geoengineering affects the climate.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

I am not too into chemtrails but people are quick to dismiss government experimenting in our atmosphere. Why is it so hard to believe that there could be experiments taking place in our atmosphere? Did the government not spray agent orange over people before during the war?

So why is it so hard to believe that the government could be experimenting in our atmosphere?


It's not hard to believe. But there's zero evidence to suggest that those white trails are anything other than contrails, or connected to any kind of government program.

It's not hard to believe there's unicorns. But there's no evidence that they exist.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by adeclerk
 




The chemtrail conspiracy theory holds that some contrails are actually chemicals or biological agents deliberately sprayed at high altitudes for a purpose undisclosed to the general public.



The modern concept of Geoengineering (or Climate Engineering) is usually taken to mean proposals to deliberately manipulate the Earth's climate to counteract the effects of global warming from greenhouse gas emissions. ...

More like: The deliberate large-scale manipulation of an environmental process that affects the earth's climate, in an attempt to counteract the effects of global warming. What programs are currently attempting to manipulate the Earth's climate? Can you give some examples?




Cloud seeding, a form of weather modification, is the attempt to change the amount or type of precipitation that falls from clouds, by dispersing substances into the air that serve as cloud condensation or ice nuclei, which alter the microphysical processes within the cloud. ...


What do all those have in common? You are dropping substances into the atmosphere to modify the weather.

That's right, the weather not the climate. Cloud seeding can't be done on a large enough scale to cause the climate to change.


I am not too into chemtrails but people are quick to dismiss government experimenting in our atmosphere. Why is it so hard to believe that there could be experiments taking place in our atmosphere?

There would be evidence that it was occurring. What evidence is there, again?


Did the government not spray agent orange over people before during the war? So why is it so hard to believe that the government could be experimenting in our atmosphere?

No, the government sprayed Agent Orange (a defoliant) over the jungle in Vietnam to kill the plants so the VietCong would not have places to hide. It was contaminated with dioxin and that is the reason it was so harmful to the people spraying it (from the ground). It wasn't a geo-engineering project by any means.
Agent Orange



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


I never said agent orange is sprayed into the atmosphere but it was dropped without them knowing the side-effects.



That's right, the weather not the climate. Cloud seeding can't be done on a large enough scale to cause the climate to change.


How do you know? Have there been enough tests to prove that dropping foreign substances into the atmosphere won't provide a long-term effect?

I for one don't feel they should be doing anything with the atmosphere. I think there hasn't been enough tests to drop things like silver iodide into our air. The fact that government runs tests in secret should be enough evidence that there could be something going on.

I am not saying they are doing it but is it worth it to wait until there is mass sickness?

The fact that people want to wait until there are visible side-effects is very wrong. That is similar with the FDA they won't pull products unless people get sick or die from it.



Geo-engineering schemes are projects designed to tackle the effects of climate change directly, usually by removing CO2 from the air or limiting the amount of sunlight reaching the planet's surface. Although large-scale geo-engineering is still at the concept stage, advocates claim that it may eventually become essential if the world wants to avoid the worst effects of climate change. Critics, by contrast, claim that geo-engineering isn't realistic – and may be a distraction from reducing emissions.


SOURCE

If there weren't experiments with geo-engineering the UN wouldn't have passed Moratorium:



While the CBD moratorium prevents the real-world testing of technologies with potential global implications for life and biodiversity, it does not prevent investment or small-scale research in geo-engineering—and the Canadian government has shown interest in becoming an increasingly larger player.

“I don't think the Canadian public, or even Parliament, has any idea that the government of Canada has already invested in geo-engineering research,” said Bronson.


So how do you know the US government isn't running secret experiments? They do have much money going into black project don't they? Do you know what the black projects consist of? Neither do I.

Look, all I am saying is that we should keep our atmosphere free from foreign substances to fight global warming. Whether it is true or not is not known but I would rather be safe than sorry, wouldn't you?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

I am not saying they are doing it but is it worth it to wait until there is mass sickness?
The fact that people want to wait until there are visible side-effects is very wrong.

...but if you don't know if they are doing anything....then what is there to "stop" ?
Do you see how that is confusing ?




Originally posted by Equinox99
So how do you know the US government isn't running secret experiments? They do have much money going into black project don't they? Do you know what the black projects consist of? Neither do I.


Again, you want to stop secret experiments even though you don't know if they are happening.
"because the gov't has money" or "because corporations have money"...is not evidence of any guilt.

Evidence of money does NOT equal guilt.
Evidence of guilt, equals guilt.



Originally posted by Equinox99
Look, all I am saying is that we should keep our atmosphere free from foreign substances to fight global warming. Whether it is true or not is not known but I would rather be safe than sorry, wouldn't you?


I do not feel comfortable accusing anybody of guilt without objective evidence. It is a moral decision of mine.

To me, pointing to someone (or some institution) and accusing them of "guilt without evidence" is even worse when it's done so in the name of environmentalism or some other respectable and worthwhile cause. It gives environmentalism a bad name, when it is used irresponsibly and unfairly.

I understand your feelings Equinox99, and your concern with the environment is respectable......it's your willingness to assume a problem without first finding the problem, that I do not agree with. I think you would find that science and factual correctness will be your strongest asset, if you want to change anything in this world.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by EyeDontKnow
 


You have me misunderstood. I am not stupid I can put two and two together:

1. Forest fires and droughts are on the rise
2. There have been small scale geo-engineering projects that try to take CO2 levels from the atmosphere and others that try to prevent the sun radiation from hitting our Earth. Hence, the UN agreeing in the Moratorium which stops governments from pursuing large-scale geo-engineering projects. So tell me, why would the UN bring it up if government haven't thought of it and tried it?
3. There have been weather modification experiments done in secret before they were found out, so what is stopping the government from pursuing climate change modification?

Again, I am saying this not because there is evidence but because everyone is hush-hush about it. You can't tell me the government has abandoned all weather and climate modification because you don't hear about it. That is like saying the government abandoned their pursuit for weapons that could cause mass deaths because you don't hear about it in the news.

The fact is that there are black projects. The government is concerned with climate change. So if you put two and two together you begin to understand that it is plausible the government could be trying to change the climate.

The main reason they didn't try to pursue this kind of technology before i because we went through a cool spell from the 40's to the 70', but they were trying for weather modification.

Now let me ask you this, have you done enough testing about our atmosphere to realize that dropping foreign substances won't cause a long-term effect? Neither have I, so why should we let the government drop crap in our atmosphere such as silver iodide or dry ice? I understand that dry ice might not seem bad for our health but there are plenty of things we don't understand about our planet.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 




Again, I am saying this not because there is evidence but because everyone is hush-hush about it. You can't tell me the government has abandoned all weather and climate modification because you don't hear about it.


The gov't is surely researching weather mod, becauuse it is a hot topic. And they are in fact open about it.
But to claim that because something is "hush,hush", is not evidence of anything. You are back to your "I don't know what it is, therefore I know something is there." No matter how you word it, the explanation is still meaningless.
But the govt is also "hush,hush" about colonizing the sun. Should we assume they are secretly attempting that, because it's hush,hush ?

Are they researching new weapons ? Seeing as it would be to our advantage to keep it a secret from a military standpoint, sure.

But again, where is your real and objective evidence that wide-scale weather mod is happening ?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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I just rewatched several times the video in the first link of the opening thread post on Olgacom and the former employee whistleblower saying that Olgacom is logistics for chemicals and chemical waste supplying this to commercial airlines like, I think she mentioned KLM and one other I can't catch. She says that commercial airlines are being used to dump chemicals and also being used to dump chemical waste on regularly scheduled and traveled routes which probably is supposed to be in some sort of special dump area and not in the sky. They are doing this under the guise of supplying catering. She is being threatened for breaking her non-disclosure agreement and her online activity is claimed to be monitored and a veiled threat issued towards her friends.

The commercial airlines thing caught my eye and I know that we're always fighting against accepting toxic dump sites in our own personal areas but didn't really know that a government could agree to dumping in their airspace for a price and that this is the toxic dump site of the future?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by EyeDontKnow
 


So how can you be sure that when they experiment with weather modification, their chemicals aren't harmful to us? You can't? So you are willing to ignore it until the government comes out and says we have been experimenting with weather modification and sprayed unhealthy chemicals into the atmosphere?

Gimme a break.

You don't know what they are using to experiment so for you to brush it off is premature.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
I just rewatched several times the video in the first link of the opening thread post on Olgacom and the former employee whistleblower saying that Olgacom is logistics for chemicals and chemical waste supplying this to commercial airlines like, I think she mentioned KLM and one other I can't catch. She says that commercial airlines are being used to dump chemicals and also being used to dump chemical waste on regularly scheduled and traveled routes which probably is supposed to be in some sort of special dump area and not in the sky. They are doing this under the guise of supplying catering. She is being threatened for breaking her non-disclosure agreement and her online activity is claimed to be monitored and a veiled threat issued towards her friends.


I'm pretty sure that's a hoax. Olgacom does not seem to be a real company. Their web site contains just a few stock photos, and was only just set up.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


Well, it seems like you're just concerned about them doing something, but you don't know if they are, or what they are doing?

Of course everyone would be concerned if there was some secret toxic spraying program. But is there? Is there evidence?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by EyeDontKnow
 


So how can you be sure that when they experiment with weather modification, their chemicals aren't harmful to us? You can't? So you are willing to ignore it until the government comes out and says we have been experimenting with weather modification and sprayed unhealthy chemicals into the atmosphere?

Gimme a break.

You don't know what they are using to experiment so for you to brush it off is premature.


Nobody wants to be a lab rat. But I don't know that they are using anything. I see no evidence of anything.
Do you ?
Without evidence, what do you propose to do ? What is your plan of action ?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by Equinox99
 


Well, it seems like you're just concerned about them doing something, but you don't know if they are, or what they are doing?

Of course everyone would be concerned if there was some secret toxic spraying program. But is there? Is there evidence?


So you choose to avoid the topic until someone brings evidence of them spraying stuff?

I'll play your game. Weather modification. Are they spraying stuff to help make it rain? They are you say? That should be enough evidence that they are willing to drop foreign substances in the sky to produce clouds. So how is that not really a chemical?

What makes you think they aren't pursuing this any further? You don't know what they are putting in the skies to make it rain isn't that enough evidence to tell you they are dropping things in our skies?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by EyeDontKnow
 


Now you're trying to deflect important questions.

Are they dropping things in our atmosphere for weather modification? If yes, what is in these things they are dropping? How do you know that it isn't harmful to us and to our environment in the long run?

I ask this because these are important questions that need to be answered.

What is my plan of action? Nothing an agent should know about.




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