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Brain War 1. Skeptics VS Reality. Its bigger then utubing and snippets.

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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by jude11
Not much...just 100's of millions, up to a Billion (Depending on the source) in Gold & Silver.


all recovered
www.rediff.com...

""All of the silver, gold, platinum, and palladium stored in its vaults at 4 World Trade Center have been successfully relocated by an Exchange-approved carrier to a newly Exchange-licensed Brink's Inc depository in Brooklyn," they said. "




posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Judge_Holden
reply to post by Immortalgemini527
 
nearly 3,000 innocent individuals lost their lives.


How many Americans die on a NORMAL day in the US?

About 5,000.

How many Americans have died since 9/11? How many died in Iraq and Afghanistan?

How many Iraqi's have died because of the Americans there.

How many people died on 9/11 due to that event is no longer a relevant issue. It is only an emotional distraction.

psik



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
Can the ‘ATS POSTERS’ stay inside the ats for once!

I just want to ask one question and one question only.

Can you tell me …in your own words, and what your brain thinks, about what really happened on 911?


It's a fair question so it deserves a fair answer...

1) 9/11 was a genuine terrorist attack staged by muslim religious fanatics, and regardless of whether anyone thinks the gov't helped them, sat back and did nothing, or was completely blindsided, the fact still remains that 9/11 was still a genuine attack by muslim religious fanatics. History shows us that muslim religious fanatics promote terrorism to further their Muslim religious principles, muslim religious fanatics have hijacked aircraft, muslim religious fanatics have murdered innocent people, and muslim religious fanatics have killed themselves along with their targets in suicide attacks. It was only a matter of time before someone would come along and think to do this all at once.

2) An administration so incompetent that they couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels certainly wouldn't be able to handle a surprise terrorist attack with any more efficiency. The attack succeeded simply because sheer incompetence allowed it to succeed.

3) More importantly, an administration so incompetent that they couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels certainly wouldn't be able to pull off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the sheer perfection of a supernatural act and without any whistleblowers spilling the beans. Bush couldn't even out a CIA agent without hordes of journalists tracing it back to him.

4) all these "witnesses heard explosions", "suspicious hole in the Pentagon", "WTC 7 collapsed at freefall speed" and all that, are nothing but the meanderings of know-it-alls who are seeing such things for the first time and are declaring themselves as spontaneous experts. People complaining about how the towers fell have zero expertise in architecture or construction, people complaining about the Pentagon have zero experience in crash site forensics or aeronautics, and people insisting on controlled demolitions have zero experience in explosives or in demolitions. Everything they're griping about has a perfectly reasonable non-conspiracy explanation, but they just don't know what it is so they fill the void with speculation.

5) Yes, there is a conspiracy and yes, there is a coverup- the military and gov't officials don't want to admit they were asleep at the wheel and incompetently allowed 3000 people to die, building designers don't want to admit they might have designed a deathtrap waiting to happen, and Bush doesn't want to admit he's a little boy sent to Washington to do a man's job and he failed miserably. Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be attributed to incompetence, as the saying goes.

Not to mention....

6) Armies of con artists, snake oil peddlers, and outright crackpots are churning out every mind numbingly inane conspriacy theory from lasers from outer space to secret controlled demolitions to cults of Satan worshipping numerologists, either as an outlet for their own abject paranoid outlook on life or to make a fast buck off of gullible people. They are directly responsible for spreading around these inane conspiracy theories and they're the reason why these truthers exist to begin with. Everything that happened on 9/11 has a perfectly reasonable and non-conspiracy explanations, but because in many cases we don't know what they are, these conspiracy web sites are filling in the void with their own paranoid delusions.

I do not believe this simply becuase someone else came along and told me this. I believe this because unlike most of the other people posting here, I can provide concrete and irrefutable examples that I have personally witnessed showing how each and every one of these statements are true; Bush's incompetence, the lies these damned fool conspiracy websites are pushing out, the irate fanaticism of Islamic fundamentalism, all of that. Let's face it, when some conspiracy theorist or another gets so fanatical in his beliefs that he has to resort to demanding proof that pilots are able to fly planes in a circle, we're NOT seeing any critical analysis of the facts, here.
edit on 28-6-2011 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


So what are 'they' paying ya?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaSynthesis
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


So what are 'they' paying ya?




You really do enjoy getting your posts removed by the moderators for TOS violations, don't you?
edit on 28-6-2011 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Thank you for sharing your views. While I disagree with your take on things, you know how to read and write which means you probably aren't stupid. However,

With everything you just said, I gained nothing to help answer the questions about what happened. Only thing I gather from what you wrote is that everyone in a position of power or authority are dumb and lazy and don't want to be blamed for that fact, and also that regular folks are even dumber because they don't understand anything at all and make up twisted stuff to fill in the gaps of their disbelief in the excuses put forth by the very dummies of authority that were supposedly incompetent in the first place.

But again, I do understand where you are coming from and thank you for sharing.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Wizayne
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Thank you for sharing your views. While I disagree with your take on things, you know how to read and write which means you probably aren't stupid. However,

With everything you just said, I gained nothing to help answer the questions about what happened. Only thing I gather from what you wrote is that everyone in a position of power or authority are dumb and lazy and don't want to be blamed for that fact, and also that regular folks are even dumber because they don't understand anything at all and make up twisted stuff to fill in the gaps of their disbelief in the excuses put forth by the very dummies of authority that were supposedly incompetent in the first place.

But again, I do understand where you are coming from and thank you for sharing.


The OP didn't ask for anyone to answer questions. The OP asked why we support our own individual positions.

I wouldn't say everyone in power is dumb and lazy, either. There are a lot of well meaning people and otherwise efficient gov't employees in gov't. The problem is that they're only as well meaning and efficient as the bottlenecks being caused by the incompetent and lazy gov't people will allow. A warning of an imminent terrorist attack of 9/11 from the best spy in the business will be useless if it just winds up lying forgotten beneath a pizza box in some idiot's office.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Immortalgemini527
 


mmmkay,here we go:

lets start with building 7: controlled demolition obviously, silverstien approved "pulling it".
the real mysteries here is how did they manage to do it so quickly? [maybe the same way the other 2]*
BBC reported it's collapse a tad bit early [you can see it still standing in the background], talk about a blooper

*mmmkay, the Twin Towers proper?

M.A.V.'s [micro-air vehicles also known as Bugbots]** probably in the hold of the planes
[which where only really a distraction/misdirection/"patsies", same for the saudi's with boxcutters ], or maybe even launched from building 7 , delivered nano-thermite to key points in the building, guided by pre-planted radio-beacons.

** link to page describing air force project and video will be provided upon request/permission of the immortal sage.

plane that "hit" the pentagon may have been partialy vaporised by some sort of secret errmmm, let's call it a "security screen"
explaining the rush to pick up the pieces/evidence***, [office workers instead of proper personnel]and why there remained so few.
missile theory is of course disinfo.

other plane was shot down as S.O.P dictates, i was glued to the tube and heard reports
of interceptors being launched and then it was never, ever mentioned again. except as the rantings of conspiracy theorists.

*** similar to selling tower ruins as scrap: get rid of any incriminating evidence. sending the rescue workers in without adequate protection also gauranteed any witness of explosions and such would be dead pretty soon.

mmmkay?

on topic and related:

what is with the sudden spike in the "OS is the truth, suck it in" threads on ATS and MSM?

sowing disinfo/preparing for a false flag event on Sep. 11, 2011? [10th anniversary.]

not Doomtarding here, just leaving it for the record,mmmkay?

thank you for your time.

from the Shadows,

DerepentLEstranger
Survivor of the 20th Century

oh and S&F though lately i've been wondering about you.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


actually point number 6 describes disinfo-agents much better, thank you.

ah yes "the "stupid, incompetent politicians" theory", already debunked i'm afraid.

by the simple fact that these "stupid, incompetent politicians" are getting away with murder,
and half of the fruits of your labor, and you are powerless to remove the "stupid, incompetents"
or put any kind of dent in their plans/agendas. all the while living like millionaires, eating lobster, caviar, and filet Mignon, while you have to settle for corned beef or Spam, if it's available.

wally and the beaver may agree with you, but that is just about it.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 





TextI can provide concrete and irrefutable examples that I have personally witnessed showing how each and every one of these statements are true


Thanks for using your own mental capability to come up with such an easy conclusion on what YOU yourself think what really happened.

It is good to know that there are a couple of posters on the ats that knows how to use the basic essentials of common sense to break down even the most complex of situations.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev

On the surface to even think that 9/11 was an inside job requires a circle of power devoid of humanity and concepts alien to most people.


You don't think these people exist?

Those that really have the power to control governments are raised in a world completely alien to most people, they are raised to see us regular folks as nothing but chattel (property) to be used to their benefit. That is the capitalist system, the system of those who have the power, a system that is nothing but a way of controlling the population through economics. A system that creates hierarchies and war and starving children.

Yes those people exist, and if you realised this maybe you would open your mind and quit denying your government is capable of such an event. Because your government is not your government, it is the tool of the capitalist elites used to control and spread their agenda of world economic control.

How many have died in the ME for the same agenda as 911? So why would it be such a stretch for them to kill 3000 more?

You are just afraid of the implications of the truth.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 




You don't think these people exist?


Logic dictates that these people do exist. As for the specifics of who, why, how and what can be done it is a tough one. The best suspect list I seen so far is at whodidit.org... . The best chance for a resolution is with a UN commission. I will be looking towards Iran's opinion of any commission that is formed to determine if it has any integrity or just another whitewash.



You are just afraid of the implications of the truth.


More concerned, but with moments of fear with the storm required to clean up this mess or how are asses are exposed to the next assault as we keep our head in the sand. Either way there is going to be a bloody mess, do we want an outcome where corruption and blind faith rules the world or wisdom and integrity has the upper hand?



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

The OP didn't ask for anyone to answer questions. The OP asked why we support our own individual positions.

I wouldn't say everyone in power is dumb and lazy, either. There are a lot of well meaning people and otherwise efficient gov't employees in gov't. The problem is that they're only as well meaning and efficient as the bottlenecks being caused by the incompetent and lazy gov't people will allow. A warning of an imminent terrorist attack of 9/11 from the best spy in the business will be useless if it just winds up lying forgotten beneath a pizza box in some idiot's office.



Ok I'm thinking with my brain... it's what I mostly try to do anyway and not post stuff from others, youtube videos or wild imaginings from any and every 'damn fool conspiracy site'.

I watched CNN on the day and didn't think much about it other than to take in the shock factor and value.

I did however start to question things when both towers came down COMPLETELY.

I thought that that was pretty *convenient* (insurance, asbestos, planes hitting in different ways on different floors etc.), and right around then I really began to wonder you know?

Like why both towers completely down? Right? Why?

And common knowledge at the time (since no one attempted it before) was likely who knew what would happen really, with the whole plane in a steel frame building scenario thing. Right? The towers were designed for a 737 hit, so that was info easily found prior to 9/11.

So even if you were a shadow government entity hell bent on the overthrow of America, or a bunch of terrorists with boxcutters on a massive (never before OR SINCE so coordinated) suicide attack, the info said the towers could take 737 hits...

I mean even the perps could not predict total collapse by my thinking, because no one had ever tried it before. Who could be sure (friend or foe) that those towers would come completely down? I'm saying, it appeared to me that whatever the 'goals' of the spectacle, part of it was to level completely both towers... Bin Laden said he had nothing to do with 9/11 and pretty much everyone was shocked that the towers fell.

Now, why were there 2 planes? I hear *some* of you musing: 'Because there were two towers you Idiot!' Oh really? You think it's that simple? That there isn't anything else to it? Really?

Think about what I wrote above, like, 'even the perps had not yet tried it and all knew the towers could withstand 737 hits...'

Sooo, why only 1 plane per tower?!! That's a little risky don't you think? Why not 2 planes in 1 tower or 4 planes, 2 per tower? And what's up with the location of hits? If you're not sure one plane can level one tower before you even begin, if you just use one plane better figure out the best place to hit the tower to have it come down.

But the targeting of the towers SEEMED rather arbitrary and yet only consisted of one plane per tower etc. Right? That's fishy to me and my brain's way of thinking.

If you got 1 plane per tower and you're not even sure 1 plane is going to do it (level the building) then why not figure out where best to hit the darn thing and do it the same place on each tower?

But that wasn't done.

I think part of the plan was to bring both towers completely down... but since it was only one plane per tower and we knew prior that the towers could withstand by design a 737 hit, and yet the towers still both fell with one plane per tower and hit in different ways in different locations, well, that tells me that whoever was controlling the planes knew the planes were not the only factor in the eventual total 'collapses'.

But you know Dave, maybe you're right, just 19 guys with a serious hate on for our decadent Western ways... Which of course is every Western country and if a terrorist attack is so successful, like a golf swing, why would you change it? Why wouldn't you just keep doing it? Massive Unexpected Attacks, seemed to work, I dunno, you think the 'terrorists' are as incompetent as the air force, NORAD, the alphabet agencies and the people in government seem to be (by your estimate), to the extent that a massive successful attack is not repeated because they just don't get it (second Big Terrorist Plan lost under a pizza box?) or think the first one was basically just a lucky fluke? Come on. Try harder explaining things. Is everyone incompetent? The "terrorists" too? I don't buy that.

I don't know, it's all too convenient to me.

Like take the date 9/11/01. If you had asked me or told me in 1998, that, or IF 9/11/01 was a good date for an airborne attack on America I would not even be able to tell you if by sheer "coincidence" there would be an air defense training exercise (or several) going on on that day even 3 years previous to it.

How about it Dave, what "war games" are on for next Thursday? Can you tell me? Is there some 'damn fool war game schedule site' I don't know about? But that the terrorists all have saved on their Favorites? Too close a time? Then how about Dec 5 2011? Huh? You live in North America yes? Even, and you don't know what war games are afoot do you? But guys from the Middle East pick a day our air defenses are confused and lagging and misdirected to pull off their little caper.

That's convenient. Too convenient.

We have to find that War Game Schedule Site Dave and shut it the hell down man! Quick call Homeland Security!!

I quit looking at 9/11 for a number of years, when I finally looked again I noticed that the photos of the people on the Pentagon lawn were "staged" IMO, yes it's my OPINION but I know a staged photo when I see one. It's like that survivor guy I seen in the mountains talking about starving and eating potentially poisonous wild mushrooms, he knew what edible mushrooms looked like, well I'm that way with staged group photo ops.

Now maybe, just maybe, the photographer(s) all had the people bend and turn and pose this way and that. Oh sure it's a horrific terrorist crash scene but HEY it's a media frenzy world right, got to look good for the cameras I guess. I mean to hell with accurate reporting and evidence gathering, let's get some office manager guys to clean the debris off the lawn so we can all stand together and look real concerned and busy, ok, now, nobody look at the camera and everyone mentally say "Cheese!" Click. Got it. Now I'll post this on the web as clear evidence of a plane crash... and no one be the wiser. Wink.

The Pentagon was like, you know what it was like? A Flash Mob. Like 100 people showing up in Grand Central Terminal at 3 PM one day for 15 minutes of ballroom dancing, only to disperse as quickly as they came.

I like the idea of the 'plane' disintegrating at the wall of the Pentagon (posted earlier) with maybe explosives inside (columns bent outward) to simulate the interior crash. Plane disintegrates into TINY PIECES (carried away by generic 'flash mob' office managers) and later photos of large(r) plane parts that show no reference to any part of the Pentagon but presumably are from the 'inside' (Job).

Hey, like I don't know if it was an "Inside Job" but I know it definitely was an "Inside the Pentagon Job." lol

There was no really good video from the Pentagon hit, or any video at all it seems. But there very well couldn't be no photos. Sooo if it's a hoax the pictures have to be released reluctantly and may hold evidence therefore, of hoaxing , "staging" and fakery. I say they do. But again, that's just my Opinion.

One other thing about the Pentagon I been thinking about with my brain is the extent of the fire creep. Fire trucks on scene in minutes, roof collapses after 20 min, still, look at the photos over time, the fire creeps all the way down the building past the heliport!

We're talking way way WAY down the hallway people. Like I know there's been a debate on whether the Pentagon had video cameras or not and how many etc., but it must have a sprinkler system right?!! Well then what were the pipes filled with if not water?! Hmmm. I'm serious. Check out the early Pentagon photos and see how far away from the heliport the crash is, look later and fire runs all the way down past the heliport - WHY? Not enough firemen? No sprinkler system in that new wing?! What?

I think I know what. But you guys have a go at it mmmkay...

Cheers



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by NWOwned
 



I watched CNN on the day and didn't think much about it other than to take in the shock factor and value.

I did however start to question things when both towers came down COMPLETELY.

I thought that that was pretty *convenient* (insurance, asbestos, planes hitting in different ways on different floors etc.), and right around then I really began to wonder you know?


Even though there is plenty of other nonsense in your post - like the part about everyone knowing the towers could withstand the impact of a 737- I have one quick question first about this little gem. How did you know about the asbestos in the towers on the day of the attack? Did you have personal knowledge? This was not widely known at the time, not by a long shot. Also, what about the insurance? How did you know about the insurance on the day of the attack? If I recall correctly, even the owners weren't sure about the insurance because the deal was not settled yet with the new leasee. Yet these two factors, not really known to anyone outside of the owners and the leasee, are the alleged basis for your suspicions.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by hooper
 


Prior to the 'insurance' and 'asbestos' angles and info which of course, came out later (hence the brackets) I clearly stated:

'I did however start to question things when both towers came down COMPLETELY. '

That signalled to my mind and brain that the towers themselves were perhaps the target or a large part of the 'Plan' that was afoot and appearing then on my TV etc.

Later, I come to find out about the asbestos, the double-attack insurance placed only months before etc. etc. I figured, like many, that a plane hit wouldn't Completely Destroy AN ENTIRE BUILDING (did know of a few plane crashes and the Empire State incident) etc.

So when both buildings fell completely, two symmetrical towers, hit asymmetrically, falling symmetrically, and BOTH COMPLETELY DESTROYED, I immediately thought something was up Yes.

I would've preferred that no insurance policies had been just recently modified and building construction did not contain tons of asbestos hard and so expensive to remove, but when the 'dust settled' that's what we did discover. Which to my brain only adds to the first suspicion I had and clearly stated I had seeing both buildings completely destroyed.

Cheers
edit on 19-7-2011 by NWOwned because: spelling



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by NWOwned
 



So when both buildings fell completely, two symmetrical towers, hit asymmetrically, falling symmetrically, and BOTH COMPLETELY DESTROYED, I immediately thought something was up Yes.

Now wait, we are talking about the World Trade Center towers, correct? In what world was that collapse symmetrical? I would suggest you go back and look at the videos.

I would've preferred that no insurance policies had been just recently modified

Because the building had just been leased in July and I don't think the insurance issues were fully resolved as of 9/11/2001. One of the reasons there was so much trouble in court.

....and building construction did not contain tons of asbestos hard and so expensive to remove....

Not the big deal everyone tries to make it out to be. There were no immeadiate issues with the ACM. It was apparently all pretty stable and could be removed over time as repairs and modifications were made.

....but when the 'dust settled' that's what we did discover.

I would suggest you do a little more "discovery".

Which to my brain only adds to the first suspicion I had and clearly stated I had seeing both buildings completely destroyed.

When you go to all those conspiracy websites does your brain ever tell you "maybe we should take this with a little grain of salt"?



posted on Jul, 24 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by Immortalgemini527
 





Can you tell me …in your own words, and what your brain thinks, about what really happened on 911?


911 was an operation designed to achieve multiple ends, with war being the tip of the iceberg; the roots of 911 can be traced to the end of the second world war,with NAZI gold and the Japanese Empire's looted "Golden Lily" treasure, to the creation of the CIA, to the Cold War, to the bankrupting and looting of the USSR, to the institutional corruption of government and media working in conjunction with the military industrial complex, as well as certain banking and insurance companies and their desire to eliminate the competition and at the same time, kill allegedly ongoing investigations (and investigators) by the Office of Naval Intelligence and the Securities and Exchange Commission, and others, into the massive fraud, corruption and treason within the US Banking and Insurance industries, within the US Military, US Media and the US Government.

The Twin Towers were dimly lit and depressing on the inside, and were gigantic asbestos bombs that could only be dismantled safely at the cost of billions of dollars to the Port Authority. They couldn't be demolished for environmental concerns and the Port Authority couldn't afford to dismantle them. Larry Silverstein surely knew this when he purchased them and promptly explicitly insured them against terrorism.

The Port Authority, the NYPD, the FDNY, the NY Mayor's office, the OEM, FEMA, many of the WTC tenants, ALL MAJOR MEDIA, the Pentagon Brass and elements of the USAF, the USN were all involved in what was nothing more than a huge heist and insurance scam with many of the "made men" within the hyper-corrupt FDNY and NYPD being among the "victims" who get to retire with a couple million in payoff money.

The SEC and ONI investigations died overnight, leaving the vultures to pick the bones of the working class with the housing bubble bursting followed by the banker's bailout.

Oh, and the Military has had a free ride to kick the world's ass ever since.

Win-win.



posted on Jul, 24 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Immortalgemini527
 





Two airplanes that day caused two towers to collapse, people can talk about how strong the beams was and how It is impossible for the beams to collapse or melt. However, in reality no one ever talked about the weight that the average ‘office building floor’ can withstand under pressure and heat.


What caused the damage to the North Tower on 911? My own words:

Before understanding how the “plane-shaped hole” was made in the North Tower, it is important to become familiar with the construction of the exterior box columns of the WTC. Below is a cross-section diagram of an exterior box column from the NIST report. Pg. 125 (highlight mine):



Source

The thickness of the steel used at the level of impact was about 3/8 of an inch. Note how the two sides protrude further than the cross section that connects them, making them like a square tube with two knife edges facing outwards running their full length. Below is from page 62 from the NIST report showing some exterior columns being installed:



Source

This is what a wing would impact if a real jet had struck the tower head-on, not just dozens of steel box-columns, but dozens of box-columns with two steel knives each. In the real world a jet would have been shredded against such a structure, with possibly the landing gear and engines containing enough mass, energy and density of material to punch through the columns; leaving the rest of the serial-numbered and easily-identifiable aircraft parts to fall to the streets below.

But this essay is not about whether jets were used, (they weren’t), rather I hope to put to rest a nagging question I’ve had; namely, since jets obviously didn’t cause the damage, what did? After I got past the realization that jets weren’t used, regardless of what I saw on TV, I was left with the awesome and awful realization that the media were and are complicit in 911, and once I reached that level of comprehension, it didn’t take long to look at the 911 Truth Movement itself in a whole new light; and if I can’t trust the Truth Movement (I can’t), I guess I’m on my own.

I’m writing to everyone out there in the same boat.

So what did cause the “plane-shaped hole” in the North Tower?


Source

The above image was taken from page 169 from the NIST report. Note the linear gashes allegedly caused by the wings of a jet. On the right side, beginning below the 99th floor, the gash is pronounced and appears to have severed ten exterior columns in a straight line at about a 45 degree angle moving to the lower left, becoming wider as it moves towards the large hole at the intersection of column 120 and floor 97.

On the left side, just above number 150 note that the columns aren’t severed. From that point, let your eye follow the gash to the right and pay close attention to the dents on the columns. As your eye follows the damage to the right, at column 148, a dent is clearly visible on the left side of the column, and the dents become more pronounced as you move to the right, again culminating in a larger hole where the “fuselage” struck.

Note the “knife edge” of box columns 145 and 146 in this close-up of the left side of the gash.



The damage is on the left sides of the columns, and they are bent left to right.

SHAPED CHARGES:

I was once certain the damage to the North Tower was caused by shaped charges, mostly based on page 5 of this thread, where it is speculated that a missile was used as a first strike, and then the “plane-shaped hole” was carved by shaped charges afterwards:

Shaped charges thread

This image was particularly convincing because this gash appears to be being cut after the plane has supposedly already passed through the wall:


Source

Here is a clip of the sequence from which the above image was taken:
Source Video

But what is a “shaped charge” and does it produce the kind of explosion seen above?

Here are some demonstrations of shaped charges. I’m certain the US military has a more advanced version than say, the Discovery Channel, but you’ll get the picture:

Shaped Charge Demo 1
Shaped Charge Demo2

Linear charge configurations are possible, as shown in this PDF.:
Linear Shaped Charges

What strikes me when I watched a few of the online videos demonstrating shaped charges cutting thick steel is that they produce a loud report, a puff of smoke and a brief orange-yellow flash; in short, nothing like what is shown on the Naudet “footage” of the first impact from which the above image was taken. What I now see in that image is a napalm explosion bursting through an already existing linear cut in the wall. According to the videos, shaped charges don’t make big fireballs.

THERMITE:

Any good 911 Truther knows about thermite from the operative Steven Jones; the rivers of molten steel, traces of thermite in the debris, blah, blah, blah…but just in case you’ve been living on Mars for the last decade, here’s a layman’s demonstration of thermate, thermite’s weaker cousin:
Thermate Demo

Once again I’m struck by how dissimilar the thermite explosion is when compared Naudet clip above. This is not to say that there isn’t any merit to Jon Cole’s argument that thermite could have been used; I believe something like it would need to have been used to cut the steel prior to the final destruction, but the available evidence doesn’t support thermite being used to cut the “plane-shaped hole”. The hole was there by the time the fireball erupted after the initial crash, the flames can be seen outlining the hole at the end of the sequence. According to Jon Cole’s evidence, a big fireball is not indicative of a thermitic reaction.

JASSM MISSILES

These babies are designed to penetrate hardened targets before exploding. There are different types of warheads available, as shown in Lockheed’s video. “We never forget who we’re working for” is their motto. Creepy:
Lockheed JASSM Demo

The USAF JASSM video:USAF JASSM Demo

In some cases, 911 eye witness accounts describe missiles:
Source

Eye Witness Video

The specifications are below:
Variants
[edit] AGM-158
• Length: 4.27 m (14 ft)
• Wingspan: 2.4 m (7 ft 11 in)
• Weight: 975 kg (2,150 lb)
• Speed: Subsonic
• Range: >370 km (>230 mi)
• Propulsion: Teledyne CAE J402-CA-100 turbojet; thrust 3.0 kN (680 lbf)
• Warhead: 450 kg (1000 lb) WDU-42/B penetrator
• Production unit cost: $700,000
• Total program cost: $3,000,000,000
• Production dates: 1998-present
[edit] AGM-158B (JASSM-ER)
• Speed: Subsonic
• Range: >926 km (>575 mi)
• Propulsion: Williams International F107-WR-105 turbofan
• Production dates: 2010-present
Source

To get a sense of scale, I used the WTC blueprints which show that every three columns amounted to 10 feet; meaning a JASSM missile would span almost five columns:
Source



Using a close up of the blueprint for a model:









On the right side, at least two missiles were used to create the jet’s “wing”:



Several missiles must have been used, with two for each “wing” and a few right up the middle:




Source

Multiple missiles must have been used, from multiple angles. Below is a shot of the first strike from the Naudet film:



CONCLUSION:

Shaped charges and Thermite cannot account for the plane-shaped hole in the North Tower.

• The video evidence is not consistent with the characteristics of either explosive as neither explosive will produce a big fireball as seen in the Naudet film.
• The charges would likely needed to have been planted outside the aluminum cladding to create a “gash” without also blowing the cladding off the steel, making stealth far more difficult.
• There was no evidence of the showers of sparks common to a Thermite reaction.
• For enough shaped charges to cut that much steel simultaneously, the resulting report and shockwave from the detonation would have been massive. This would be much more difficult to explain to errant witnesses.

JASSM Missiles fit the evidence.

• Fireballs are consistent with missile explosions.
• The wing-shaped damage could have been caused by multiple missiles from several angles.
• JASSM missiles are bunker busters by nature and can cut steel columns. It is what they do.
• The damage to the left side of the gash is hard to explain at all unless a missile is considered.
• At speed and from the ground, JASSM missiles can look like jets, especially if they’re painted in the colors of one.
• Some witnesses allegedly claimed they saw or heard missiles.
• With Hollow Towers (pre-demolished and stripped of partitions, fixtures, floors, etc), the missiles would travel straight through to the opposite sides, which they did.

I say missiles dunnit, but I’ve been wrong before and I’m open for discussion.

I am only focusing on the first strike for brevity, and for the fact that the South Tower may have been executed differently.

Yankee451






edit on 24-7-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-7-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Well if the MIC didn't do it, they couldn't have asked for anything better.




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