Is hunting a realistic option during civil chaos

...just wanted to comment that "hunting" should probably be augmented with "fishing" in the topic of this thread. Yeah there is a difference, but it's also an outdoor activity that can produce food if needed.

But it also takes skill.

I can read each of these posts and tell who will make it and who wont. Just by the animals they describe.

If there was a wide open hunting season....after day two none of the 'hunters' will see anything. The animals will leave to all of the places where humans go and stay there because humans never came there. Its that simple. As the humans die off they will slowly come back out to the forest edges, but only when almost all of the humans have left.

I lived out of the woods before. when I was younger. Protein poisoning is very real. You need animals with fat. Those animals taste bad according to what we are used to. My Native American friend Howard had a grandma who would shout and chant when we killed coons. We prepped the hides and she would take the carcasses and cut them up small for the freezer. And she could cook it too. I mean good, not like I do.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
I lived out of the woods before. when I was younger. Protein poisoning is very real.

Please explain, I'm curious. Do you mean 100% protein diet? I don't think anybody suggested that.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I think the other poster is thinking of what is usually called "rabbit starvation." Too much lean meat can actually cause the eater to lose weight and muscle mass, as well as have some flu like symptoms

It was discussed on a thread called "the dangers of rabbit hunting:

survival thread: the dangers of rabbit hunting

The topic of rabbit starvation begins halfway down the first page.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


I see.

Well I'm sure nobody will keep mono-diet of lean meat. There won't be enough -- in most cases you'd have to supplement with vegetables and all. And carbohydrates == fat. So let's not worry.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


Correct they are the same thing.

Even for the top level hunter there are many things to consider. I am an above average one. I'm however looking into indoor and greenhouse production of veggies and fruits. Currently looking to develop a small indoor vertical system that can be ran via LED lighting and powered by solar panels. After Fukushima and the tests on shelf produce, and the ongoing hot particles...

I am now firmly convinced that being able to grow food indoors and in greenhouses where the airflow can be cleaned and controlled is what is going to be the difference in the future. I believe we may end up with a very toxic environ one day. It may become so toxic we stop taking animals.

All of my disposable income is being pumped into the equipment right now, for the next 3 months. Each month i'm buying about 1/4 of the total outlay.

As I find room I'm also going to look into growing potatos in perlite via hydroponics down the road. First things are salads and fruits for right now. The cost has slowed me way down compared to where I wanted to be by now.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
As I find room I'm also going to look into growing potatos in perlite via hydroponics down the road. First things are salads and fruits for right now.

I find this a little odd. I love fruit and salad, but if you are working for the TSHTF scenario, you will probably want bulk and nutrition to start with, and then add delicacies later.

hunting politicians and the elite are a must in order to sustain a healthy diet of revenge to keep you fat n happy during civil unrest

reply to post by buddhasystem


I have good stocks. I'm just looking for constant production now. The light controlled potatos in perlite can run two years. You reach in under them and pluck a finished one each week and a new one grows to replace it. I dont believe growing outside is going to be a safe option unless under a greenhouse with controlled air and raised beds.

But no, i'm way ahead of the game. Production is just to extend the amount of time before using stocks. Not a replacement.

Hunting in the future? I'm not so sure. There are flocks of sheep in the UK that can never leave their fields by law. Never be sheared for wool, or eaten.

In Germany?

www.csmonitor.com...

We can't even test our game in the US until Fukushima is brought to a conclusion.....But the hunters will still go out by the millions this fall.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


most of the civil chaos will go down int the cities where the animals are not. You have the people that leave the city to go to the woods these are the people you have to worry about, because the people living out in the woods before the civil chaos already understand to not over kill doesn't mean they will not but they know not to. Say all the people from the city make it out into the woods well like you said people will hunt each other.

I have seen people raise deer by the way with fences and everything so as long as the people flooding the woods undestand not to shoot them it will be fine.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


Hunting isn't a realistic option for all 6+ BILLION people, but for many hundreds of thousands it should suffice, as it did for millions of years prior. (I would imagine that during a national or global crisis, most of the populace will not be hunting in the wild, but will instead be huddled in urban shelters awaiting salvation, expiration or even execution.)

The only problem during a 'state of emergency' is finding hunting grounds that one doesn't have to compete for food on, but since survival is the name of the game, territories would be raided as well as defended, and there would be many fights to the death over prime hunting grounds. Probably not much different, for example, than the daily traditional life of a Native American.

Not realistic at all. Think about how many tons of food are consumed from grocery stores a month in your area. And then think about how many tons of bucks their are not in your woods.

Food that is at the store is made in extremely efficient settings were a few acres will feed the masses.
Food in the wilderness?

Not sure if this has been said or not, but the chicken you buy at the store is grown on farms that border the woods. When the shtf happens and the chicken houses are stocked one familly can easilly have over a 1000 chickens now and have no way to feed and water them. So, instead of going to the store you would have to go to woods where the chickens are most likely to be real cheap or free because noone wants hundreds of dead birds laying around. The food production has no reason to stop just the people in the city will need to go out and get their chickens. My geuss is a single familly can easily survive off of 20 chickens and a roster.

next step is to find seeds so you can use all that free manuer. While the people that were prepared already had the catfish ponds with hydroponics hookup to them with out the use of electricity.

what I'm saying is instead of having a big farm provide for you have a small farm provide for yourself. and really if noone comes out here to buy chickens there will end up being to many dead to perserve all of them.

Christopher McCandless

reply to post by Doublemint


I am convinced that most industrial scale agricultural production will grind to a halt just like everything else. I have a great deal of experience in agribusiness. Chicken operations rely on electricity for deliver of food, water, and air conditioning to the pens. Depending on the operation, the on-site foodstocks will last anywhere from 3 days to a month or so. But the water delivery will stop without electricity to drive a rural well. Most of the barns cannot function without a/c, and the birds would quickly suffocate. Those sorts of operations are basically a factory, and will have to shut down like every other factory in an emergency.

If you live more than 2 miles from a chicken operation, how will you get out to where they are? If America's electricity or pipeline networks lose power, your current tank of gas will be your last.

But assuming you decide to spend your last drops of gas on getting your pullets (and assuming the disaster isn't an EMP), what will you do with them at home? Have you ever raised chickens?

Do you have a chicken coop? What about a chicken run? You know that a coop is as much to protect your chickens from predators as it is to keep them from running away, right?

What will you feed your chickens? You can actually feed them on crushed kitten chow for a while, if you have it; but what then? If you let them free range, you are at risk from hawks, as well as foxes, badgers, coyotes and other survivors....

If you do let them free range, they'll need fine grit for their gizzards, or else they cannot digest their food well. And you'll also need some source of calcium to make their shells strong; oyster shells are best---have you got any?

20 chickens will give you all the eggs you can stand, plus some to trade with the neighbors, a critical idea in a survival scenario. But you'll only get about one fryer every three or four weeks (if you have a purposed breed). So you'll need something else to eat.

But I don't think you'll get that far. The chickens will be long gone by the time you get out there. The workers aren't going to keep showing up for work while the nation collapses around them. And even if they did, 8 workers cannot feed 10,000 chickens if they have to do it all by hand. And the owners have no interest in absolutely glutting the chicken market in their neighborhood, so don't look for them to sell you a whole flock, when they can charge more by the egg.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


one thing when I think shtf happend it is random not a slow process, thats just you alowing it to happen. I also thought the whole point of things like this was to be prepared so all of question should be able to be answerd by any of use. I'm not affraid of a slow shtf situation thats just the progression of life, those are things that you can see coming and predict.

For the most part who ever your suplier is they are going to keep you growing chickens maybe it does happen when you dont have chickens then oh well thats why you have other plans. All of these discusion are imaginary and hypothetical so nothing is set in stone.

Why wouldn't people plaining on surriving know some things about raising chickens this is an imaginary situation we are talking about and since I don't know anything about you I made up an imaginary person that is able to raise chickens. Or maybe I just read your posted wrong but you seemed freaked out

Originally posted by Doublemint
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

one thing when I think shtf happend it is random not a slow process, thats just you alowing it to happen.

1. "Random" is not the opposite of slow. "fast" is the opposite of slow. Random means something happening by chance, without any discernible cause. I am preparing for every sort of scenario I can, whether fast or slow, random or human-caused.

2. My definition of "SHTF" is that it is beyond my control, so it's not a question of me "alowing" it to happen.

I also thought the whole point of things like this was to be prepared so all of question should be able to be answerd by any of use.

Yes, I agree that questions should be answered by any of..."us." And when there are potential problems or deeper questions, I think any of us ought to be allowed to point them out. I was just pointing out that an industrial chicken farm is a complex system, and vulnerable to the same types of supply problems that puts our entire society at risk.

For the most part who ever your suplier is they are going to keep you growing chickens

What does that mean? Your "supplier" will be able to supply you with both chickens and food, even when the rail networks are incapacitated? Or your supplier will begin supplying you with electricity, once the power grid fails?

In most cases, your supplier will be a corporation, which is a legal fiction that may cease to exist without the legal and economic systems to keep it propped up. If your supplier cannot meet payroll, or if the employees have no faith in their own safety, then your supplier will cease to function instantly.

My point with all of this is to say simply that you are assuming that a supplier will magically be there to meet all your chicken-producing needs. And yet "survivalism" is about asking "what if," and not taking things for granted when it comes to relying on the kindness of strangers.

maybe it does happen when you dont have chickens then oh well thats why you have other plans. All of these discusion are imaginary and hypothetical so nothing is set in stone.

So, what,.... your suggestion may not work, so have something else as a back-up? That means that your idea of locating a chicken farm may not be much of a back up plan, if it doesn't meet any of your needs.

Why wouldn't people plaining on surriving know some things about raising chickens this is an imaginary situation we are talking about and since I don't know anything about you I made up an imaginary person that is able to raise chickens. Or maybe I just read your posted wrong but you seemed freaked out

1. Well, I happen to know quite a bit about raising chickens (having raised them before, for pay). I actually have a source for layers within traveling distance even in a survival situation, a friend who raises them now ( and provides us with eggs in barter)

2. I would recommend you or other interested ATSers in the US look for much more local sources of chickens than a chicken farm:

First, google the nearest feed store. They probably sell chickens in the Spring, if not year round.

Second, look for a bulletin-board for individuals or clubs (like 4H) involved in raising chickens. The people who are willing to share knowledge and chicks now would probably still share their skills in a crisis.

Third, look on Craigslist and read under the "farm and garden." There may be a large number of posts for chickens, but read through them and look for common features. Things like, what types are for sale, what kind of equipment are chicken keepers looking for, and where do most of them live?

3. I'm not freaked out at all. Not by a long-shot. Just pointing out what I see as problems with the suggestion you offered.